Tuesday, March 14, 2017

Dave Pack: The Man of Sin Has to Be A Young Man

Type "man of sin" into Google and look who shows up!  Brother Bob!

Dave is getting ready for Bob Thiel to become the man of sin....oops, Elijah BOB is married, that lets him off the hook.  Perhaps one of Dave's boys that he hands around with will be his young man of sin?

When Christ walked the earth, he was 33-and-a-half years old—some old leader in the splinters isn’t going to fit the bill.
The older the man is, the more likely…I mean, God could use anybody to be the first two wizards that introduce him. They can be older men. The wizards can have one résumé, if you will. The Man of Sin has to have another—younger, cleaner…Ready? Single. You probably can’t have him stand up as a married Christ. I’ll bet none of you ever thought about that—is the Man of Sin married? How could a married man, brethren, ever claim to be Jesus Christ—never mind if he had children who would thus be half-gods. You know, Hercules, and they’d be Mercury, whatever else. Do you see my point?
There seems to be no way this man can be married, or probably have ever been married, and claim to be Jesus Christ. Never mind have children who, forever after, would sort of be…you know, come from the messianic line when he was Christ. That would have been a problem in the first century. We’ve talked about that many a time. It was more than Christ didn’t want to just leave a widow. That would have been one problem. Or He would have left orphans. That would have been another, but they would have been born of God! Theoretically, we could say His kids would have been one-quarter God, half from Him and none from whoever had been His wife.
The fact that he is a single man, perhaps in his early 30s, introduces another possibility about why is he single. There is quite a powerful case behind that that would take longer to explain. I don’t want to get into it, but some of you may guess what it is. I’d like to do that in its own time and place, so we’ll just leave it at that. But he is going to have to be a single man, who got there into his thirties. Why he’s single is a different discussion, but that’s all we’re going to cover now. There’s probably more to the story, maybe much more to that story, but no time for it now.
So, the Man of Sin has to be a younger man. The older he is, the more he comes with a résumé that could be suspect—that’s subject to fact checking. You see my point? I’m trying to illustrate something here, because some more things have come clear. Young, single, clean…Does he have brothers and sisters? People can check up on him? Is this really Christ? This guy has to look like the real deal, and he does to such an extent that even the absolute perversions that come out of his mouth are not sufficient to keep some people, with God’s Spirit, from being fooled.


Black Ops Mikey said...

Ancient history.

Predicting the past once again.

And not too accurately either.

Byker Bob said...

Just got back from some cardio on my beach cruiser. (I know, some of you have snow on the ground, but our high was 93 here today). I had read this entry just before going out, and it got me thinking as I rode. If you look at any of the year books, or stop to think of some old friends, you realize that there are numerous people who have just flat disappeared, faded, never to surface on the internet, Facebook, or Linked In. What if one of these folks who left in the early '70s suddenly came upon any of the splinter leaders' websites, or this blog? I can just imagine how astonished they might be, and what they might say!

"You've got to be kidding me! There are people still with this???. I mean, I can understand people staying and waiting one year past 1975, two, three, but this is 42 years after the fact, and people are not only still revising dates, they're getting into all manner of bizarre speculation about minutiae and preaching as fact things that nobody can possibly know! Have you SEEN that paper called "The Journal"? Those ads??? What are these people thinking? You tell me they were able to reprogram all the WCG brethren because of some Readers' Digest ads?? For crying out loud, the Israelites only staggered through the desert for 40 years! That's some mighty strong programming! Jeez, 38 years would be two additional Armstrong time cycles! Don't any of these folks ever think that even the Laodicean era has used up its time cycles?"

"When the World Tomorrow was no longer on any of our local radio and TV stations, I thought the whole thing had dried up! Who are these people who are calling themselves apostles and prophets? How did there get to be so many little groups? Unity was always part of credibility! And what's this I hear about incest??? It's bad enough that none of HWA's prophecies came to pass over the last 4 decades, but incest??? And there are people who still believe him, and make excuses after over 40 years?"

"I can't believe the Exit and Support Network! There was child and wife beating back in the day, but I never remember the sheer level of abuse that's being reported today! Who is Gerald Flurry, anyway? Cal Culpepper? Dennis Leap? Leave your handicapped children at the mall???"

Ok, that's enough. Surely everyone gets the point. I just thought that lest we who have watched the entire evolution of the movement also become frogs, or desensitized, some fresh perspective might bring it all back into the shocking reality that it actually is! This one goes out to all those who still have family members trapped in these toxic and increasingly ridiculous cults! May they all soon wake up, break loose, and get on with their lives!


Michael said...

"The fact that he is a single man, perhaps in his early 30s, introduces another possibility about why is he single. There is quite a powerful case behind that that would take longer to explain. I don’t want to get into it, but some of you may guess what it is. I’d like to do that in its own time and place, so we’ll just leave it at that."

Ah, Dave, a never-ending source of humor.

Incidentally, as we have learned by now, Pack's "powerful cases" are him spouting out whatever silly idea comes to mind at the moment.

This should be good. What is he, Dave, a eunuch? Perhaps an unmarriable asshole?
Maybe saddled with previous student loan debt making him financially unable to marry.

Or, alternatively, who cares about your vacuous attempts to apply age-old writings to whatever you imagine about the future, as funny as they may be.

Anonymous said...

Reading between the lines.... Dave Pack has a young, well liked single man in his congregation calling him out for his lies. Pack has to discredit him somehow, and the only way he knows how is with more lies.

Nemesis of Pack

DennisCDiehl said...

There has to be a point where the average RCG member must dread having to go sit in church to listen to Dave blather on and on about nothing that is remotely so.

Perhaps a demand by the Whimpy 16 he attend On and On Anonymous ?

Connie Schmidt said...

Yes Davey, we do understand YOUR requirements! He has to be a young, exciting, virile , single man , you likes to wear tight skimpy, speedo swim trunks!

QUESTION--Where is Sigmund Freud when we really need him?

Anonymous said...

How many followers does "Davey" have???

Black Ops Mikey said...

I must admit that I only watched a couple of episodes of Boston Legal, but the one episode I did see certainly is applicable to all of Armstrongism.

William Shatner played one of the attorneys in a courtroom where a judge was trying to find a pro bono appointed attorney to defend a pedophile murderer on trial. The Shatner character was trying to escape the courtroom because he knew what would happen if he didn't. Of course, he didn't make it and the judge appointed him anyway.

The Shatner turned to the defense table where the orange jump-suited defendant was sitting and said,

"I hope you die!".

Honestly, we've utterly deconstructed the whole venue so that Armstrongism has no viability or credibility left whatsoever.

And I would say, I wish it would mean something, because they just keep going on and on and on in insanity, oppression and abuse, but still, to Armstrongism...

"I hope you die!".

In my lifetime.

Anonymous said...

This is Dave entertaining rather than feeding his flock.

Anonymous said...

By saying the man of sin has to be young, he's just trying to shift the focus away from himself.

Anonymous said...

Packs sermons are totally .........
It all makes "Doubly blessed" Bob Thiel sound reasonable.Or even Flurry.

Opps,did I really say that?

Darm it,pass me another drink.

Hoss said...

Young and healthy. People COGs flag to watch tend to die.

Anonymous said...

Wow! Pack must really be frustrated. He just gets wilder and wilder. I mean, we were far out when I look back on the old WCG, but this is beyond the pale. As near as I know, I never even laid eyes on the guy, certainly never heard him, but he a prime candidate for Trump's cabinet, right beside that black idiot Adventist who also thought he was qualified to run for president. He certainly hasn't fallen very far from the original Adventist nut tree.

Allen D. Dexter

Sweetblood777 said...

Calling Dr.Ben Carson a black idiot Adventist, is pure malice. I surmise that the man has much more education and intelligence than Anonymous or Allen D. Dexter. Which is it? Anonymous or Dexter? One cannot be both?

Anyway, I find Dr.Carson to be a very humble man. Most highly educated men do tend to be humble, while air-heads tend to be empty barrels. I surmise that the comment from the 10:45 Anon. is indeed, an empty airhead except for the air.

nck said...



You will never understand it since you are wearing the wrong filtering spectacles.

Let me give you a hint!
-The vast majority of WCG members joined after 1974
-A huge component in the current splinters was born after 1990
-Almost a 100 percent of the people in wcg and I know you will not get this but believed in the second part of the prophecy "and the day you will know not".....

Some will say. Wow, Europe did come together, Germany united against the wishes of my socialist history teacher, as a matter of fact I even found it inconceivable that just recently the UK left the EU as HWA foretold but has always been inconceivable to me because of my believe in the rationality of the Anglo Saxon people.

Now I don't believe anything about HWA ever said. But in order to be able to be of service to anyone you must come to grips with reality instead of harping on you personal reasons to exit.

As long as the bible is around and complete welfare for the entire planet is realized, people in times of crisis will long for a "promised deliverer "king arthur", "better times" , shining city on the hill, and will judge that the current superpower is the fulfillment of that dream.

One time it will be the habsburg empire, our time was the american empire, and soon the entire world will believe the chinese are the fullfillment of the kingdom of god. Or perhaps we can still thwart that and help the United Nations from dying and turn in into a global empire. But first we need to get rid of the scourge of the Arabs by, turning to green energy, or let them take over Europe and re establish their dream of a prosperous Islamic empire in Europe of which the demise of the former turned their religion into an apocalyptic one.


Byker Bob said...

People generally vent their frustration over ideological differences by impugning the intelligence of those who feel differently from themselves. It becomes complicated, because there are highly intelligent individuals who are off-balance in various ways, and low mentality people who conduct stable, reliable existences.

The cult zombies are pretty much fair game for anything, but in the case of normal people, I usually don't maintain an IQ file. Ideas and concepts can be meritorious or invalid, though.


Near_Earth_Object said...

I must admit to ignorance. I have been hanging around Gavin's website for years and I have no idea who Dave Pack and Bob Thiel are. I have seen their names repeatedly but have never been motivated to research these guys. I know they are splinter group leaders of some sort and Gavin Rumney thought they were ludicrious and frequently sent barbed comments their direction. And I admit that I still don't have any interest in these guys - they are just a couple of members in a broad class of people.

What I do know is that Armstrongist behavior dealing with prophecy has one purpose. Armstrongist leaders use prophecy to stir up their base to give more money. They would like to gen up a fever pitch of excitement over the imminency of the return of Christ and somehow sustain that. But people grow weary so they strategically follow a plan of intermittent prophetic excitement.

I remember the excitement at the Feast in 1979 when it was rumored that Herman Hoeh believed that the Times of the Gentiles would be up in 1982. How many people were induced to give large offerings by this? It's all about money and control fellas and gals - whether Armstronists or Warren Jeffs or Jim Jones.

Anonymous said...

Dave Pack spews forth more of his "pack of lies" about wizards and then asks: "...I’ll bet none of you ever thought about that—is the Man of Sin married?..."

Well, duh, Dave's words are just absolute stupidity. Dave is correct: none of us thought about any of what Dave Pack spewed out as speculation. It is almost like setting up some stupid straw-man and then "shooting it down,"b/c it is so stupid.

Regarding that man of sin we read:

2 Thess 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that MAN OF SIN be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Looking at those two verses I would be more inclined to think that man of sin was just a phrase describing Satan. Why not? Isaiah says something similar to 2 Thess 2.

Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

And we know that man, or men, in the Bible have actually described angelic beings.

But for Dave Pack's man of sin to be this and that based upon such words as "...seems to be...probably...theoretically...another possibility...maybe..." etc. to conclude the man of sin is some single man, young, etc. seems ridiculous.

Regardless, Paul said the man of sin has to be revealed AND it must happen at a time when there is some falling away first. People are "falling away" from Dave, but I doubt that that doesn't mean a thing.

So, who is that man of sin? Will be revealed as some man or angel? Young or old? Accompanied by some wizard(s)?...Duh!

Time will tell...


Byker Bob said...

Nck, no, I believe I have some very effective filters, filters that worked quite well in helping me to identify the many problems of Armstrongism, and to get the hell out, while there was still time and opportunity to put together a fairly good life. Those filters would have worked just as well in the 1980s as they did in the 1970s.

I did not enter Herbie's totalitarian gulag voluntarily or of my own accord. My parents were scammed and deceived by HWA while they were very vulnerable as a result of a family tragedy. Immediately, I and my siblings underwent a severe decline in our sense of well-being and quality of life. The old Radio Church of God was not a nurturing church. They dealt primarily in shock value, and their leopard spots did not magically vanish during the 1980s. "Back on Track", by all accounts made everything much worse!

In the end, all we have to share is our own accumulation of personal experience. That is what makes each of us unique, and perhaps validates us. It is also very powerful, because it provides us with an opportunity to help others avoid having a similarly bad experience. And, I believe that that power is what pisses you off, because from your own contributions here, it is perfectly obvious that on many levels you still admire Herbert Armstrong, and attribute a certain degree of prescience to him and his message. Whereas I personally believe that a malodorous, big waisted Brooks Brothers suit setting on a pair of black shoes is a good representation of HWA with the crap knocked out of him.

You may want to have your own filters analyzed. They seem to diminish verifiable bad, and to add a rosy tint to whatever is left.


RSK said...

Well, I'm still waiting for Dr. Ben Carson to explain how the pyramids of Egypt could function as granaries since they tend to have so little interior space, much less accessibility - but I assumed that's just someone's dogma he was repeating.

Anonymous said...

Sweetblood777, if you find Carson humble, take a look at his home which has been called a personal homage to Carson.

Photos of Carson's Home

nck said...

Yes. The both of us are much alike regarding their personal effectiveness. However our personal effective filters do not explain the 8:14 points I made. It’s like calling an obvious genius “the black idiot adventist” , while in what in reality shocked the world were indeed his dogmatic statements on the pyramids. (And yes I have been inside, unlike Dr Carson and the majority of Adventists obviously.)

The problem is that there were ample reasons for HWA to put forward the theory that “the Arab nation under Nasr” could become the “King of the South”. For 1980 GTAists it was for “obvious speculation Al Assad of Syria.” For the Flurryites it is Iran. And I am pretty sure another nutcase is pointing toward the “Lighthouse keeper” of Maatsuycker island south of Hobart Tasmania.

Now, a 1974 defector might point out the HWA Nasr flaw. While the next will say, yes of course he was wrong on that because today’s King of the South is………. So in reality the putting down of HWA has an effect of confirming the latter. So how is that helping todays splinter captives?
Oh yes. I attribute a degree of prescience to HWA. In fact even more than you realize. As a matter of fact I am still flabbergasted by Brexit. Having been educated among the best and brightest I have again come to realize that there other dimensions to international politics, than what is commonly taught on a scientific level and HWA seemed to have a good grasp of that.
However, you are well aware that my attribution of prescience does not stem from any religious experience that I had in Armstrongism.

Again. You are right. In my experience “everything” in old armstrongism was rosy as compared to todays level of mind control in what is exposed on this blog. But hey, I admit I was not around in fifties Armstrongism. But from what I hear, my forebears who jumped ship from adventism to armstrongism at the time, felt the latter a breath of fresh air. So it is in the eye of the beholder or the one “filtering” I guess.

nck said...

Look BB,

I am at least 98 percent less christian than you are.
I am just living with the fact that next week all 27 EU leaders are discussing the birth of a new Europe with the pope after Brexit. This nothwithstanding the fact that I do not believe in armstrongism for at least 25 years.


nck said...


It is no secret that many among us have likened the Jehovah Witnesses to Armstrongism and pointed at their common heritage. In the proces "we" have labeled them "an abominable cult."

Just recently I noticed that the now defunct "Ambassador Watch" blog is still regularly visited by people from Evil countries (among those are in the top 20 on this blog.)

Therefore I asked. Do these visitors share in our common heritage or do they have other reasons for frequenting? So far no anwer has been received.


The prosecutor in Moscow today anounced the process of placing the JW's on the list of extreme organisations and "abominable cults" thus rendering the belief system of 175.000 people illegal.

Reason to fly the flag not???

Oh of course. As usual I am seeing connections that are not really there. It is stupid nck again, no?

Even if so, please continue as you were or consider your actions.


Sweetblood777 said...

I viewed the home of Dr. Carson and I still find him to be a humble person. A humble person is one that relates to other people on the same level. How Carson has arranged the inside of his house is not proof that he isn't humble. Many school kids put up their cups from sport inside their homes, but they don't brag about them outside to others.

Byker Bob said...

All I know is that I wish the JWs who camp out every day at the public libraries in our town would go away, and take their signs with them. So far, they haven't confronted me, but I have a lecture composed on having grown up in one of the other Millerite cults if they do.

Also, the pope has important meetings all the time. There are countries in Europe that have been
traditionally Catholic, and countries that have been anything but, particularly since the Protestant Reformation. Given choice between Catholicism and Islam, I'd pick the church that sprang from Paul's gentile churches any day of the week. Is it not possible that the whore of Babylon is actually from literal Babylon?


Anonymous said...

I think Ben Carson is a previously unknown species of ground sloth. It's hard to tell if sloths are humble or not.

The Painful Truth said...

At least Carson has legitimate degrees unlike little Bobby Thiel.

nck said...


(pick Paul's remnant)
I've visited nearly all Islamic countries in the world. The sunset prayer is a very powerful religious moment to feel like a part of a larger whole. Something I only experienced going to the first night of the Feast or a nightly activity at the Feast as a kid. A moment of peace and quiet despite the overwhelming noise of the loudspeakers and the muazzin.

The most bizarre religious experience I ever had was in Jerusalem, when Christmas, the festival of lights, friday muslem call to prayer and friday jewish prayer at the wailing wall all coincided. But reality sets in when you realize that that is not a good time to search for a restaurant.

But I shouldn't be talking so much like Mr E. Babble On.


Anonymous said...

Kelly Marshalls online review of Herbs 'Mystery of the ages' gives many quotes from JW literature that closely parallels passages in Herbs book. So Herb read and plagiarized much of their material. So the belief that Herbs teachings are revelations from God is untrue.

Anonymous said...

The man of sin will be the most evil person ever (not counting Gerald Flurry of course) so he will have to be transgender. God would not call him a man unless he really were a man. So he has to be a shemale. He will appear as a woman to the world. So it has to be one of: i) Michael Obama, the former first 'lady', ii) Hideous Hillary, iii) Rachel Madcow, and iii) Meghan Kelly.