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Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
Charity, alms, and even a workman worthy of his hire can work. The key is that the impetus and general thrust has to reside with the giver. That is the only way in which it can be controlled by the heart, and be worthy of reward! If it is commanded or coerced (guilt-tripped) by the recipient, it is less than worthless. I believe that I am still being blessed today for my voluntary charitable donations to non-ACOG organizations that assist people in Jesus’ name. Leaving an invisible footprint for good is everything!
There is no evidence that tithing results in God blessing you in any way either financially or in any other way. This is just a ploy used by religious leaders to extract thousands of dollars out of each person that is duped to tithe. Churches are nothing but human organizations. Pushing people to tithe it what is done fund these human organizations. When you give to a church you our not giving to God but you are giving to men.
A local Protestant minister recently claimed he doesn't know anyone who tithes who has not been financially blessed. Considering the age of his congregation, perhaps the financial blessing is Social Security. The Sadducees, who didn't believe in an afterlife, derived their belief from Zadok, who taught to give alms with an attitude of not expecting a reward.
We are admonished to visit the sick, feed the hungry, visit those in prison, pray, to love God, to love our neighbor as ourselves. Nowhere does Jesus say to tithe 10% of your income to the church of your choice, or even to "God's one and only true church". He even told the man who came to him who asked what more he needed to do to enter the kingdom of heaven since he already kept all of the laws, and Jesus told this very rich man to sell all that he has and GIVE IT TO THE POOR. That man rode away on his horse in sorrow because he wasn't willing to do that. The old WCG TOOK FROM THE POOR with the command to tithe AT LEAST 10% of their income. Yup. Always our fault. Pphhtttt. Sigh.
The contract between tithing and blessing was made with the Israelites and the Levites. Jews today do not tithe. There is no temple or Levites. They do urge their members to give (voluntary donations) to a cause that will help "heal the world." The NT church never mentions tithing, but giving (again, voluntary donations, not mandatory obedience to law). For a pastor to accept tithes, claiming Mal 3, they themselves are the real thieves, not those in the church who hold back their "tithe".
I question what percentage of WWCOG members did in fact tithe. If a person tithed, they would protect that 'investment' by not mistreating others. Yet verbal abuse was rampant in the church. I think a high percentage didn't tithe.
For the Catholic Church, tithing became a doctrine at the Council of Macon in 585. However, it took Charlemagne to 'encourage' people to obey the doctrine. It looks like this is another Catholic doctrine that Protestants decided to keep. For WCG (and probably CG7, SDA, and back the Millerite line) the doctrine was a misinterpretation of Hebrews chapter 7. While offerings were encouraged to support the ministry, tithing was still Levitical, and that ended with the Roman destruction of the Temple. And it is probably well known that Jews today don't tithe. There is at least one splinter that doesn't teach tithing -- I remember Bob Thiel chuckling about it derisively in a sermon. And of course some, such as ICG, dropped third tithe, claiming the government fulfills that obligation. There was a "must play" sermon by GTA in which he claimed "by accident" a computer printed out a tithing report that flagged everyone who hadn't tithed. He noted that many flagged were HQ employees; some apparently excusing themselves by saying they paid anonymously (and didn't claim an income tax deduction?) GTA said it wouldn't happen again... A more truthful story of HQ tithing matters was covered in the Ambassador Report.
7.23 AM The rich man would have lost all his possessions due to persecution had he followed Christ. Christ was asking him to face this reality from the very beginning rather than later.
Well said! Took me about 15 yrs of my life to come to that stark reality. I was so bewitched that I was afraid to stop tithing as I feared some mishap would befall me. In deceptive groups the word love can be substituted for fear so subtly that you won't know the difference, i heard my church friends would always say" I'm paying my tithes I don't want to Rob God". They believed they were showing love by obeying in fear(not awe). How can it be love when some members neglect their families to pay tithes while many ministers prosper and take good care of their families. I even heard someone in LCG once say "The ministry deserves the best since they are the levites".
I think most of us imagined that because we kept the sabbath and holy days and ate clean meats that we knew a lot more about the Jewish religion than we actually did. But, we were constantly getting things wrong. As an example, when I first heard of a menorrah, I had no idea how it was spelled, and thought it might be a Jewish farming impliment, possibly used for manure and composting. But, then we knew nothing about the Festival of Lights that the Bible tells us Jesus kept, because we ignored the deuterocanonical books from the intertestamental or helenizing period.
First, the practice of tithing was only required exclusively for the Isrealites. Second, the tithe was given to the Levites because they did not own land and couldn't produce food for them selves. Third, the tithe was given in the form of agricultural produce,(meat,grain,fruit and vegitables,ect..) it was never given in the form of money. Forth, since the Levitical priesthood no longer exists and we are under the new covenant the tithing laws don't apply to anyone anymore.
It is hard to believe that any minister who pushes tithing isn't aware of the scriptures that clearly state how, when and to who the tithes where given and the fact that because all these conditions no longer exist today tithing is not only not required but it also is not even mentioned in the N.T. as even a Christian responsibility.
I have been financially blessed ever since the day I decided to bypass the ministry and tithe directly to God. I cash my paycheck, take all the money and throw it into the air in my living room. I tell God to take any and all of the amount that he wants, and throw back down to me what he doesn't want. God is always so impressed with my generosity that he allows me to keep the entire amount.
Tithing was for the Jews. Jesus tithed. It was the LAW, like paying our taxes in the U.S. Today. Jews today do not tithe because there are no Levites or temple. They do encourage their people to give (voluntary) 10% to help "heal the world." Nowhere in the church age is tithing mentioned in the NT. Paul urged giving, not tithing. For a pastor today to use Mal 3 to claim that those who do not tithe are robbing God; they themselves are the real thieves. They are demanding and accepting what they have no right to demand or accept.
The Jews and others were taxed to death by the Romans. Tithing monies would have been stolen by the Romans. So the issue of tithing in the NT is not clear.
Tithing was for all Israel, and the law was very specific. Jesus was a carpenter, so unless he had a garden and maybe a couple of sheep in his back yard, he had nothing to tithe. He commended some Pharisees for tithing on herbs (which may have grown naturally and not planted) but told them they skipped more important parts of the law.
Hoss You don't seem to understand that 'increase' includes all services, in the same way that the increase in the size of a flock is the manifestation of labour. Tradesmen are required to tithe their pay (after expenses).
Anon 8:01 PM is repeating faithfully what his ACOG masters taught him. He would, however, do well to find out what the texts actually command. As it stands, he is adding to scripture, which scripture itself condemns.
Hoss, you are absolutely right. Consider that the Bible acknowledges that the Eternal gave the Moabites their own land, under the god Chemosh. If you were farming on Moabite land, but you gave your tithe to YHVH, you would be robbing Chemosh!
How's If a farmer plants seeds, his crop is the increase that's tithable. Even in Satan's world, people are taxed on goods and services produced. Farm produce is not exempt. You seem to have joined hands with lawyer Nck with the 'but who is my neighbour' routine.
I never quite understood the idea of WCG ministurds being "the Levitical priesthood".
Hebrew priests owned no land (no tribal land allotment, just cities), and their daily workload of butchering, cleaning, supplying and so on sounds like way more work than I ever saw any ministurd do. (sorry, dreading hearing the phone ring isnt work!)
Since the tithe was going to the Levites, Isn’t it rather obvious why the tithe consisted of the increase of the field? It’s simply because the Levites were not given a portion of the land. If you don’t have land where can you get your food? Ah, from the tribes that did have land. This is why a tithe did not come from the profits of artisans, the Levites could have other trades; they just didn’t have land to provide food.
Earl You are ignoring that the Levite's were not given land so that they could focus on the spiritual and its associated responsibilities. So your 'other trades' is questionable. I assume they did do it, but only marginally.
In my early days in the WCG, I heard mention of the infamous Dr Martin, who I later learned was Ernest L. Martin, a former PT writer. He wrote The Tithing Papers, refuting the Biblical support for modern tithing. And there may still be a link at Exit and Support to Aaron Budjen, former rabbinical student turned evangelist, who also discredits this ubiquitous doctrine. But don't despair; a laborer is worthy of his hire, God loves a cheerful giver, and one should store their treasure in heaven. Your congregation should support you, just don't threaten them with the Lake of Fire...
WCG ministurds being "the Levitical priesthood"
HWA claims to Jewish lineage, a descendant of Solomon. Don't excuse this with "spiritual Levite" - Heb 8:4, speaking of Jesus, "For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest". Can't Jesus be a spiritual Levite? Apparently no.
Hoss When I was behind in my tithes on the odd occasion, I would get a reaction from the holy spirit. I choose to trust the Holy spirit more than Dr Martin or Aaron Budjen on this matter.
Anon 12:30, my main point is just tithes being land based because Levites had no land. I’d like to look more into it, but I am reminded that the Levites had various families broken down into many courses such that their work in the temple amounted to just a fraction of a year. I believe it was John the baptists father who was of the course of abijah and this resulted in about 1-2 weeks of temple work as his “course” cycled through each year. I believe there was ample time for other trades. Of course, if a minister should choose to live in a tabernacle around a temple/church and serve the brethren then I believe it is a duty to feed such a servant. I’m sure he would be great loved and not muzzled. But, he would probably not be from the line of Levi and his service would not be remunerated due to that anyway as the levitical priesthood is done away.
Every human produces feces and urine. If we were labeled as factories, those would be our products. Does that mean I should send 1/10 of what I excrete to the ministers? Or, that in David Pack’s doctrinal approach, he owns it all, so his followers should abolish the toilet?
"Anonymous said... Hoss You don't seem to understand that 'increase' includes all services, in the same way that the increase in the size of a flock is the manifestation of labour. Tradesmen are required to tithe their pay (after expenses).
September 5, 2018 at 8:01 PM"
Let's see now, Abram tithed of the spoils of war. Next time I win a war I'll tithe!
Jacob actually cut a deal with God, "bless me and I'll give you a tenth of all", so if tithing is/was a law I guess it's negotiable. Meaning if God blesses me I won't steal.
Well, the truth is that God has indeed blessed me and I haven't "tithed" in over 20 years. Unless a net worth in the top 17% of the U.S. isn't being blessed.I
Actually, if we indeed are a royal priesthood, just how much tithe did the priests pay?
"Anonymous said... 5.19 AM Am I adding to the texts, or are you subtracting from them and ignoring justice. Nck, Hoss and now 5.19 AM. The three Amigos.
September 6, 2018 at 8:11 AM"
Yes Anonymous, you are adding to the text. All references to tithing in the bible other than Abram giving a tenth of the spoils of war and Jacob brokering a deal with God to bless him, are all contextually tithing within the Mt. Sinai covenant. So, unless you are under that Mt. Sinai covenant you'll find no command to tithe in the text of the bible.
As was said, you have been brainwashed by the acog. For the record, I still keep the Sabbath, Feast days and believe that God is a family which teaching ol' Herbie got from Charles Taze Russell, and the Eastern Orthodox church has taught this for centuries.
"God became man so that man can become god".
btw, I find it hard to believe that any parent would name their child Anonymous. Or maybe anonymous is a synonym for "I haven't the 'nads to give my real name".
36 comments:
Does your splinter leader have a jet? A big, comfortable house? A "Headquarters" building? A lavish expense account?
If so, your tithing is working exactly as intended!
Charity, alms, and even a workman worthy of his hire can work. The key is that the impetus and general thrust has to reside with the giver. That is the only way in which it can be controlled by the heart, and be worthy of reward! If it is commanded or coerced (guilt-tripped) by the recipient, it is less than worthless. I believe that I am still being blessed today for my voluntary charitable donations to non-ACOG organizations that assist people in Jesus’ name. Leaving an invisible footprint for good is everything!
There is no evidence that tithing results in God blessing you in any way either financially or in any other way. This is just a ploy used by religious leaders to extract thousands of dollars out of each person that is duped to tithe. Churches are nothing but human organizations. Pushing people to tithe it what is done fund these human organizations. When you give to a church you our not giving to God but you are giving to men.
Very good article. I am experiencing some of these issues as well..
A local Protestant minister recently claimed he doesn't know anyone who tithes who has not been financially blessed. Considering the age of his congregation, perhaps the financial blessing is Social Security.
The Sadducees, who didn't believe in an afterlife, derived their belief from Zadok, who taught to give alms with an attitude of not expecting a reward.
We are admonished to visit the sick, feed the hungry, visit those in prison, pray, to love God, to love our neighbor as ourselves. Nowhere does Jesus say to tithe 10% of your income to the church of your choice, or even to "God's one and only true church". He even told the man who came to him who asked what more he needed to do to enter the kingdom of heaven since he already kept all of the laws, and Jesus told this very rich man to sell all that he has and GIVE IT TO THE POOR. That man rode away on his horse in sorrow because he wasn't willing to do that. The old WCG TOOK FROM THE POOR with the command to tithe AT LEAST 10% of their income. Yup. Always our fault. Pphhtttt. Sigh.
The contract between tithing and blessing was made with the Israelites and the Levites. Jews today do not tithe. There is no temple or Levites. They do urge their members to give (voluntary donations) to a cause that will help "heal the world." The NT church never mentions tithing, but giving (again, voluntary donations, not mandatory obedience to law). For a pastor to accept tithes, claiming Mal 3, they themselves are the real thieves, not those in the church who hold back their "tithe".
I question what percentage of WWCOG members did in fact tithe. If a person tithed, they would protect that 'investment' by not mistreating others. Yet verbal abuse was rampant in the church. I think a high percentage didn't tithe.
For the Catholic Church, tithing became a doctrine at the Council of Macon in 585. However, it took Charlemagne to 'encourage' people to obey the doctrine. It looks like this is another Catholic doctrine that Protestants decided to keep.
For WCG (and probably CG7, SDA, and back the Millerite line) the doctrine was a misinterpretation of Hebrews chapter 7.
While offerings were encouraged to support the ministry, tithing was still Levitical, and that ended with the Roman destruction of the Temple. And it is probably well known that Jews today don't tithe.
There is at least one splinter that doesn't teach tithing -- I remember Bob Thiel chuckling about it derisively in a sermon. And of course some, such as ICG, dropped third tithe, claiming the government fulfills that obligation.
There was a "must play" sermon by GTA in which he claimed "by accident" a computer printed out a tithing report that flagged everyone who hadn't tithed. He noted that many flagged were HQ employees; some apparently excusing themselves by saying they paid anonymously (and didn't claim an income tax deduction?) GTA said it wouldn't happen again... A more truthful story of HQ tithing matters was covered in the Ambassador Report.
7.23 AM
The rich man would have lost all his possessions due to persecution had he followed Christ. Christ was asking him to face this reality from the very beginning rather than later.
Well said! Took me about 15 yrs of my life to come to that stark reality. I was so bewitched that I was afraid to stop tithing as I feared some mishap would befall me. In deceptive groups the word love can be substituted for fear so subtly that you won't know the difference, i heard my church friends would always say" I'm paying my tithes I don't want to Rob God". They believed they were showing love by obeying in fear(not awe). How can it be love when some members neglect their families to pay tithes while many ministers prosper and take good care of their families. I even heard someone in LCG once say "The ministry deserves the best since they are the levites".
Tithing when the is many splinters church of God organisations and brethren are wandering around like sheep is complicated.
I think most of us imagined that because we kept the sabbath and holy days and ate clean meats that we knew a lot more about the Jewish religion than we actually did. But, we were constantly getting things wrong. As an example, when I first heard of a menorrah, I had no idea how it was spelled, and thought it might be a Jewish farming impliment, possibly used for manure and composting. But, then we knew nothing about the Festival of Lights that the Bible tells us Jesus kept, because we ignored the deuterocanonical books from the intertestamental or helenizing period.
First, the practice of tithing was only required exclusively for the Isrealites.
Second, the tithe was given to the Levites because they did not own land and couldn't produce food for them selves.
Third, the tithe was given in the form of agricultural produce,(meat,grain,fruit and vegitables,ect..) it was never given in the form of money.
Forth, since the Levitical priesthood no longer exists and we are under the new covenant the tithing laws don't apply to anyone anymore.
It is hard to believe that any minister who pushes tithing isn't aware of the scriptures that clearly state how, when and to who the tithes where given and the fact that because all these conditions no longer exist today tithing is not only not required but it also is not even mentioned in the N.T. as even a Christian responsibility.
I have been financially blessed ever since the day I decided to bypass the ministry and tithe directly to God. I cash my paycheck, take all the money and throw it into the air in my living room. I tell God to take any and all of the amount that he wants, and throw back down to me what he doesn't want. God is always so impressed with my generosity that he allows me to keep the entire amount.
Tithing was for the Jews. Jesus tithed. It was the LAW, like paying our taxes in the U.S. Today. Jews today do not tithe because there are no Levites or temple. They do encourage their people to give (voluntary) 10% to help "heal the world." Nowhere in the church age is tithing mentioned in the NT. Paul urged giving, not tithing. For a pastor today to use Mal 3 to claim that those who do not tithe are robbing God; they themselves are the real thieves. They are demanding and accepting what they have no right to demand or accept.
Tithing is OLD COVENANT! It has nothing to do with the NEW COVENANT! Now, be set free and live a happy life.
The Jews and others were taxed to death by the Romans. Tithing monies would have been stolen by the Romans. So the issue of tithing in the NT is not clear.
Tithing was for the Jews. Jesus tithed.
Tithing was for all Israel, and the law was very specific. Jesus was a carpenter, so unless he had a garden and maybe a couple of sheep in his back yard, he had nothing to tithe. He commended some Pharisees for tithing on herbs (which may have grown naturally and not planted) but told them they skipped more important parts of the law.
Hoss
You don't seem to understand that 'increase' includes all services, in the same way that the increase in the size of a flock is the manifestation of labour. Tradesmen are required to tithe their pay (after expenses).
'increase'
Yes, in the 'increase' of the fruits of the land, and the 'land' being Eretz Israel.
Anon 8:01 PM is repeating faithfully what his ACOG masters taught him. He would, however, do well to find out what the texts actually command. As it stands, he is adding to scripture, which scripture itself condemns.
Hoss, you are absolutely right. Consider that the Bible acknowledges that the Eternal gave the Moabites their own land, under the god Chemosh. If you were farming on Moabite land, but you gave your tithe to YHVH, you would be robbing Chemosh!
How's
If a farmer plants seeds, his crop is the increase that's tithable. Even in Satan's world, people are taxed on goods and services produced. Farm produce is not exempt. You seem to have joined hands with lawyer Nck with the 'but who is my neighbour' routine.
I never quite understood the idea of WCG ministurds being "the Levitical priesthood".
Hebrew priests owned no land (no tribal land allotment, just cities), and their daily workload of butchering, cleaning, supplying and so on sounds like way more work than I ever saw any ministurd do. (sorry, dreading hearing the phone ring isnt work!)
Since the tithe was going to the Levites, Isn’t it rather obvious why the tithe consisted of the increase of the field? It’s simply because the Levites were not given a portion of the land. If you don’t have land where can you get your food? Ah, from the tribes that did have land. This is why a tithe did not come from the profits of artisans, the Levites could have other trades; they just didn’t have land to provide food.
5.19 AM
Am I adding to the texts, or are you subtracting from them and ignoring justice.
Nck, Hoss and now 5.19 AM. The three Amigos.
RSK wrote:
I never quite understood the idea of WCG ministurds being "the Levitical priesthood"!
Like the Levites, the WCG ministry had blood on their hands!
Earl
You are ignoring that the Levite's were not given land so that they could focus on the spiritual and its associated responsibilities. So your 'other trades' is questionable. I assume they did do it, but only marginally.
The three Amigos
Just call me Lucky Day...
In my early days in the WCG, I heard mention of the infamous Dr Martin, who I later learned was Ernest L. Martin, a former PT writer. He wrote The Tithing Papers, refuting the Biblical support for modern tithing. And there may still be a link at Exit and Support to Aaron Budjen, former rabbinical student turned evangelist, who also discredits this ubiquitous doctrine.
But don't despair; a laborer is worthy of his hire, God loves a cheerful giver, and one should store their treasure in heaven. Your congregation should support you, just don't threaten them with the Lake of Fire...
WCG ministurds being "the Levitical priesthood"
HWA claims to Jewish lineage, a descendant of Solomon. Don't excuse this with "spiritual Levite" - Heb 8:4, speaking of Jesus, "For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest". Can't Jesus be a spiritual Levite? Apparently no.
Hoss
When I was behind in my tithes on the odd occasion, I would get a reaction from the holy spirit. I choose to trust the Holy spirit more than Dr Martin or Aaron Budjen on this matter.
Anon 12:30, my main point is just tithes being land based because Levites had no land. I’d like to look more into it, but I am reminded that the Levites had various families broken down into many courses such that their work in the temple amounted to just a fraction of a year. I believe it was John the baptists father who was of the course of abijah and this resulted in about 1-2 weeks of temple work as his “course” cycled through each year. I believe there was ample time for other trades.
Of course, if a minister should choose to live in a tabernacle around a temple/church and serve the brethren then I believe it is a duty to feed such a servant. I’m sure he would be great loved and not muzzled. But, he would probably not be from the line of Levi and his service would not be remunerated due to that anyway as the levitical priesthood is done away.
Every human produces feces and urine. If we were labeled as factories, those would be our products. Does that mean I should send 1/10 of what I excrete to the ministers? Or, that in David Pack’s doctrinal approach, he owns it all, so his followers should abolish the toilet?
Why is my not tithing working?
Kevin M
"Anonymous said...
Hoss
You don't seem to understand that 'increase' includes all services, in the same way that the increase in the size of a flock is the manifestation of labour. Tradesmen are required to tithe their pay (after expenses).
September 5, 2018 at 8:01 PM"
Let's see now, Abram tithed of the spoils of war. Next time I win a war I'll tithe!
Jacob actually cut a deal with God, "bless me and I'll give you a tenth of all", so if tithing is/was a law I guess it's negotiable. Meaning if God blesses me I won't steal.
Well, the truth is that God has indeed blessed me and I haven't "tithed" in over 20 years. Unless a net worth in the top 17% of the U.S. isn't being blessed.I
Actually, if we indeed are a royal priesthood, just how much tithe did the priests pay?
Kevin M
"Anonymous said...
5.19 AM
Am I adding to the texts, or are you subtracting from them and ignoring justice.
Nck, Hoss and now 5.19 AM. The three Amigos.
September 6, 2018 at 8:11 AM"
Yes Anonymous, you are adding to the text. All references to tithing in the bible other than Abram giving a tenth of the spoils of war and Jacob brokering a deal with God to bless him, are all contextually tithing within the Mt. Sinai covenant. So, unless you are under that Mt. Sinai covenant you'll find no command to tithe in the text of the bible.
As was said, you have been brainwashed by the acog. For the record, I still keep the Sabbath, Feast days and believe that God is a family which teaching ol' Herbie got from Charles Taze Russell, and the Eastern Orthodox church has taught this for centuries.
"God became man so that man can become god".
btw, I find it hard to believe that any parent would name their child Anonymous. Or maybe anonymous is a synonym for "I haven't the 'nads to give my real name".
Kevin M
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