Lord have mercy! Just what we need...a self-appointed, self-righteous Armstrongite splinter group leader lecturing us on why there are no Christian millionaires in the church.
Once more the African brethren are being subjected to a totally asinine sermon that not a single one of them will ever have to worry about! Most barely subsist on the bare minimum of living standards as this privileged white boy from California is telling them why they will never have any money.
The Great White Bwana is having to mail his African followers, office supplies, Bibles, computers, seeds, and my favorite item, pills for those suffering upset stomachs after reading and listening to Bwana Bob.
1) Eleven laptops
2) Bibles
3) Hymnals
4) Moringa seeds.
5) Various nutrients and supplements … {to assist with digestive issues in Malawi and elsewhere}.
6) Five (5) of the heavy duty locks.
7) Office supplies, etc.
On top of that, when you look at his booklet offerings above, he has to rely on a photograph of the Auditorium and egret sculpture that is now owned by Harvest Rock Church, a slain-in-the spirit, holy ghost revival cult. Why is it that not one of the splinter groups out there today have an original thought in their warped little brains? They have to fall back on Herbert Armstrong's teachings, booklets, and the projects he did in order to supposedly "prove" to their followers that they are the true successor of Herbert's empire.
If you have 23 minutes to waste or just want to be entertained by the hands flailing about, then check out his video:
35 comments:
Why are you not a Christian millionaire?
You may think that the price is right, but you are in Jeopardy because you spun the Wheel of Fortune and landed on "Triple-Tithe Plus Offerings." To tell the truth, you told God, "Let's make a deal," and are busy trying to stir up works as if these will assure you of your salvation, even though you are at the bottom of the $100,000 pyramid while your leaders live in relative luxury. Still, you press your luck, taking sides in one family feud after another as tattletales run amok to church leaders, fostering one church split after another. Are you a survivor who will beat the clock and go to the place of safety before the Tribulation? Or have you been suckered by a veritable liars' club of ministers?
Do you have the truth, or will you face the consequences? You had better answer correctly, because you bet your life!
It's those Crappy Curtains again...
Awesome!
He hasn't a clue. There are definitely millionaires in the cog, maybe not among the acog organizations but there are among the antidenominationalists. Especially those of us who know that tithing was only a law for Israel. If tithing was a law prior, just why did God allow Jacob to cut a deal with him about obeying a "law". "If you bless me I will give you a tenth of all" meaning of you don't bless me tough luck it's mine.
Even I, a West Virginia hillbilly construction worker with only a High School education, while not quite a millionaire yet, I'm 3/4 of the way there. Though the fact is that a million today is the same as $500,000 thirty years ago so it's not as great of an accomplishment as it used to be. Especially if you live in an area where the cost of living is ridiculous.
Kevin
First, there actually is a group of Christian millionaires, known as the Barnabas Group. As members, they are pledged to living from 1/10 of their income, and donating 90% to Christian causes and works.
Also, since Bob Thiel has misappropriated (and misrepresented) the building and sculpture of the Maranatha people who own it, I believe it's only fair that his African congregations be given their contact information, opening the door to additional charity.
And, by the way! Some of my Christian contacts who also do work in Africa have shared that giving out laptops can potentially make targets out of those who receive them. People here in the USA can be killed for their Nikes, but over in Africa, killings can be over laptops or nearly anything else that identifies people with specific teachers or power-mongers.
BB
Bob has aged a bit since he started his heretical group. He looks worn out and ragged.
Poor Bob, let's give him some help in the way of entrance passports for his African tribe right to his home complex where he can feed the flock and tend to their diseases.
African immigration to his little town would add jobs, spread the word of his god, and qualify it for federal help in the way of grants so the city could hire more police to control the out of control crime.
Now BB, how easily you forget! Those are not real Christians, but so-called. There are no real Christians outside Bob's little circle.
Some of my Christian contacts who also do work in Africa have shared that giving out laptops can potentially make targets out of those who receive them.
Don't worry, most of the laptops are going to close associates of Bob's African leaders, for use in their business enterprises in well-guarded buildings in locations Bob will never see.
One of the millionaires is listed by name in this post.
In fact the last time I talked to this person a month ago they said they were now worth.......
2 1/2 millionShould
Kevin
ANSWER-- Simple Math!
You earn an average $50k a year after college and do so for 40 years. You give up 20% of that income each year.
This is $10k a year.
Do this for 40 years, and make a very achievable 9% a year by just buying and holding an index fund, and you would have...
(DRUM ROLL PLEASE)...
FOUR MILLION DOLLARS $$$$$
Run the numbers yourself here...
http://www.moneychimp.com/calculator/popup/calculator.htm
Just the fact he has posted a photo of Harvest Rock/Ambassador tells me one thing: He is living in the past. The picture that SHOULD be there is the front facade of his vitamin shop. I guess his little headquarters just isn't that appealing.
If he's so fond of Harvest Rock/Ambassador Auditorium, maybe he should visit it for a Sunday Morning service.
There, he wouldn't be Bob Thiel, Pastor General, Overseer, blah blah and yakkity yak. He'd just be the little dude in the corner, aghast at the overt Pentecostalism all around him. Who knows, some minister might single him out, come over, and start praying for him! And in tongues!! (Wanna see how fast Bob can run? That's a way to find out!!)
We all know why no one in Restored is a millionaire, don't we?
Keep in mind that Harvest Rock called in some exorcist to purge the spirit of Armstrong from the auditorium. True story. They knew what Armstrongism was. A Satanic religion that sacrifices their children on the altar Moloch.
ANSWER-- Simple Math!
You earn an average $50k a year after college and do so for 40 years. You give up 20% of that income each year in 1st and 2nd tithe.
This is $10k a year.
Do this for 40 years, and you would have...
(DRUM ROLL PLEASE)...
ZERO DOLLARS $$$$$
When I teach in Tanzania, I am a millionaire, sort of. It takes 2,300 Tanzanian shillings to make a dollar. So, if I have a net worth of 432,000 USD. . . . . I'm a millionaire. Of course, being a millionaire today is not what it was a generation ago. Back in his day, when HWA paid himself $421,052 in 1981, that was worth over $1.2 million today. Not bad for a high school drop-out.
I thought they just anointed the building.
Byker Bob your post gave some good advice. After AC I got married. Rented an unfurnished apartment. We had no furniture, so I made a deal with my landlord. He had a used bedroom set and a used dinette set. He wanted 125.00 so I made payments of 25.00 a month till it was paid off. Next I bought a worn out 61 Chevy impala. I pulled the 283 engine and rebuilt it on the living room floor. Don’t think my wife would go for that today. My wife and I learned to live within our means. When I was 40 years old I realized I knew nothing about investing. I did buy a house for 40,000 with a house payment of about 300. Later sold the house for 47,000. After realtor fees and closing, I ended up with about 5,000. That was my experience in making money. So one day in the early 80’s I bought a magazine called Money. I did not understand virtually anything that was in the magazine. I had no idea what a mutual fund was, I didn’t know the difference between a stock and a bond. What was a high yield bond, a municipal bond, a zero coupon bond etc. what was ebita, what was roi? So I set out to teach myself what about investing. I read and read and read and read some more. After I left WCG, I worked for a couple companies that offered 401k investments. I maxed out all I could. I bought some stocks, I bought, Apple, Intel, Texas Instruments and a few others. As BB said, get all the education you can. Take advantage of any retirement plans your company offers. Stay out off debt. I worked my butt off to pay our house off. I retired 3 years ago. House and car are paid for. I gave my last dime to a money-grubbing church over 20 yrs ago. Today my wife and I give to those who need it. I was fortunate to buy some Amazon and Google several years ago.
Jim-AZ
Thanks, Jim. Unfortunately, I made one comment which contained a bad choice in words, and I worried that if any of my kids happened to see it, they might get a wrong impression, reading something into it that I really didn't mean. No way of editing, so had to delete it. Fortunately, for our greater audience, you made some even better points. Which I guess is altogether fitting since you actually saw that first apartment which I had mentioned when you and Tommy Blackwell came to annoint me following an accident I had while I was working in construction. I appreciated your compassion and your prayers from back then. Leg has been fine throughout the rest of my life.
BB
Tonto
The "magic" of your compound interest is a myth. The problem is that:
a. inflation is typically greater than the interest rate, ie, inflation is greater than your 9%.
b. Periodic stock market crashes eg 1987 and 2008, swipes out much of the gains.
Compound interests only works in a moral world.
Bob has a curtain fetish.
re James: Armstrongism worships Australian lizzards???
re SHT: The vitamin on that cover might be looked at as a symbol of the Atun.
re BB: What slick marketing person would venture to export cooling systems to the African nations? Only leftist conspiratists venturing to accustom those peoples to cooler climates.
The Pharaos left a grand warning in the sand to not fall for pyramid schemes regarding the selling of vitamins. I believe a secret is hidden in the dimensions of Tupperware items since the Masons from Oklahoma managed to influence one eighth of a working day through that invention.
nck
ANON at 2:21 -- Incorrect. Inflation has only been 3% a year since 1913. Gold and silver have only gone up at that rate since then, and this can be verified by looking at the prices of many items in old Sears catalogs ( I have done the calculations myself) and even on things like gasoline.
On an inflation adjusted rate of return on my example above, one would still have 1.7 million dollars.
These examples show just how much someone gave the COG as tithes over a lifetime BTW. A true fortune is made in time value on every lifer of a COG, enough that one individual could have financed a WHOLE LOCAL CHURCH BUILDING that was modern and beautiful!
The stats I quoted are inclusive of bear markets and market crashes. The market has made 9% per year inclusive from 1926 to 2019.
I believe in the tithing principle, and wealth accumulation through tithing. After I left the Worldwide Church of God, I began tithing to (drum roll please....) MYSELF. I saved 10% of my paychecks, and began accumulating a savings balance. Soon I made the transformation from a saver to investor investing in stocks and real estate over the years. I still own investment real estate I purchased in the 1980s.
My Lake of Fire Church of God teaches tithing to YOURSELF. Live below your means by living on 90% of your income, and invest the rest. Take care of yourself and your family and not any corporate Church or HWA wannabe such as Dave "grab the assets" Packatolla. Learn the lessons of the Worldwide Church of God demise.
I give Almighty God all the credit for opening my eyes to the fraud of Herbert W. Armstrong at a young age and despite my family estrangement, and I thank God for being an Ambassador College reject. Had I been accepted to the now defunct Ambassador College, a much different outcome could have occurred.
Almost arrested false prophet Dr. from a mail order College Bitter Bob Thiel is not the judge of who is a Christian and who is not a Christian. He wouldn't know a Christian millionaire if one were to present himself/herself to him.
Richard
Nck, I have never been involved in exporting cooling systems to the Africans. However, I have contributed from time to time to the Water for Life program, under which wells are drilled for sustainable, clean sources of water for African villages.
Certain regions of Africa are very nuanced. Some areas are controlled by warlords who conscript young men to be assassins. Control by these warlords also sidelines many efforts at charity, because the warlords co-opt and subvert it, using it for their own purposes. Che Guevara had hoped to bring a Cuban style revolution to the emerging post-colonial nations of Africa, but failed. He wrote that there was no sense of nationalism, a factor which of course directly influences one’s concept of government, rendering any larger scale of a communist system impossible.
When I studied geography and social studies, our study of Africa brought to light a saying: WAWA, an acronym for “West Africa wins again”. This was a description for the brutal forces of nature at play in this extreme region. There are many resistant factors which make Western Africa a huge and continuous money hole. Unfortunately, this has frustrated the efforts of well-intentioned ones who would like to improve the living conditions on that continent. At the height of the AIDS pandemic, it was said that the civilized world was turning its back and allowing the whole continent to die.
The progression of time, coupled with improved technology, can often change our abilities to help. At one time, the digging of the Panama Canal had nearly been abandoned due to conditions of nature. Perhaps eventually there will be greater success in Africa.
BB
2:21 You don't know what you're talking about, the stock market has averaged about 10% a year over the last almost 100 years.
Average means the years that it's lost, including crashes, averaged with years that it's ganed.
Inflation has nothing to do with what Tonto was saying other than the fact that the 4.5 million that you'd have made after 40 years in 2019 would have been worth $1,167,000 in 1979, so technically by 1979 standards, you're a millionaire, but by 2019 standards you're a multi millionaire with the same buying power as that millionaire in 1979.
Also the average inflation rate over that 40 years was 3.43% not greater than 9% as you claim.
While I'm far from a financial genius......
You ain't even close
Kevin
Hey Kevin,
Thanks for your post to Tonto’s post. Your spot on about what the average inflation rate has been over the past 40 years. Tonto was making a point about how your money grows if you invest in the market. Most people are afraid of what they don’t understand. I too am not a financial genius. But I have been investing in the market for about 30 years. I have lost money on some of my purchases. But I have made money on others. The key is to have more gainers than losers. I bought Face Book on 5/17/2012 as an IPO at 38.00, today at 11:40 it is trading at 203.62. I am not a fan of FB but I am happy with the moves up. I bought Amazon on 1/27/2017 at 834.50 today it’s trading at 2010.60. I bought Alibaba on 8/18/2014 at 68.00 today it’s trading at 173.60. Since I am retired I can follow the market on a daily basis. My strategy now is to invest in dividend stocks. I am not trying to toot my own horn. I really don’t care if someone is opposed to putting money in stocks. That is their choice. But like you said Keven, some people comment when they don’t know what they are talking about. And Tonto, I agree with your post, thanks
Jim-AZ
Richard lake of fire, thanks for your contribution.
BB. Thanks for your contribution.
Africa as a continent experiences rapid growth. On my way from South Africa I sat next to a peace corps volunteer.
As a native Oregonian she was wildly impressed by my extensive knowledge of all towns and hamlets along the Willamette.
I didnt tell her about my source. I never source. I had fun.
Nck
Jim, Thanks.
Personally I started day trading back in 2007 and I was doing pretty well, averaging about $200 a day profit but then the housing bubble burst and I was too stupid to quit. Ended up losing $25,000 in less than three months. Anyone who knows day trading, you close everything out every day, two to three days at the longest. So that money was gone. It wasn't like if you're investing long term, what goes down will eventually go back up, (at least if the U.S. doesn't fall).
Losing $25,000 didn't ruin me but who likes to lose anything? As I said above my net worth is pushing $750,000 even with that loss, so....
I recently bought some otc penny stocks in two Canadian marijuana companies FSD Pharma and Nextleaf Solutions, ticker symbols FSDDF U.S. otc, HUGE Canadian, and NXEAF U.S. otc, OILS Canadian.
Kevin
Jim, have you ever tried your hand in options? Buying puts and calls? I dabbled in them a little a few years ago but don't really have the time. When I retire I hope to play around a little with them.I
Kevin
Tonto
I suggest you Google 'The myth of compound interest' from the Daily Reckoning, by James Altucher. This article was from yesterday. Today's inflation is officially 2 to 3%, but using 1980s criteria, is actually closer to 10%. A visit to any supermarket will confirm this . Furthermore, the Fed has inflated just about every major asset, so the true value of your money has greatly diminished. For example, how much real estate will ones savings buy today? The government has monstrously defrauded savers. And not forgetting, the stock market prices are paper prices. They have been being going up on light volume. So if a reasonable percentage tried to cash in their chips, prices would significantly plunge. The stock market is a Bernie Madoff scheme.
The bible says "perilous times will come" for good reason.
1:54pm I just read the article and you're completely misrepresenting what Altucher said, and also what Tonto was saying earlier.
Altucher was referring to compound interest in a savings account, which today's highest savings accounts only yield about 2.3% interest a year. Since inflation has averaged about 3.4% a year you'd be losing money if that's how you're investing your money.
Tonto said nothing about putting your money in a savings account, not even higher yielding online accounts like ALLY Bank. He was talking about investing in equity funds that follow the market. A fund that follows the S&P would buy stocks from the 500 companies in the S&P500. If the S&P averaged 10% a year over the last 40 years, your fund would yield about 10% a year.
Investing in equity funds isn't like investing in a single stock where if that one company fails you've lost. Equity funds invest in hundreds of companies, if one falters the others help stabilize your fund.
Of course there's no 100% guarantee, but the whole country would have to go down in order to lose it all, and if the country goes down your money is worth shit anyway.
Perilous times will most certainly come, (if you believe the bible) but only a fool is too scared to take advantage of the opportunities available.
Of course there's better ways of investing your money, but Tonto wasn't giving a crash course in investing.
Personally I make more money building a house myself, live in it a couple years, then sell it. With current laws you don't have to pay Capital Gains on such a sale. You can sell two houses every five years as the law stands today.
So if I put $120,000 into building a new house (I do 90% of the work myself) and sell it for $400,000 and do that twice in five years I've made almost $500,000 in five years after Realty fees and other expenses.
It's not that difficult to understand.
Kevin
Kevin,
Yes I have done options. I have a covered call going right now with OHI. I made some money on straddle options in the early 2000’s made a little money writing them on the gold index. However now I am concerned with steady dividends. What you are doing with houses is great. I built one house and sold it, made a few thousand on it, that was around 2008 when the housing market was not doing very well.
Investing can take many forms, I have one house that I collect a monthly payment. I have a triple net lease on it. When my wife and I die my daughter will inherit it.
The person who said the market is like a Bernie Madoff scheme doesn’t understand very much about the market. That person should not invest in the market. Yes perilous times will come, that is why I am investing. I have in Wal-Mart. Every time Wal-Mart makes a profit, a little bit of that profit comes back to me. I am familiar with how Sam Walton began his business. Kevin I agree a fund gives people diversity and that is good. I own several funds. But I also own over a 100 stocks. So I am diversified.
Anyone who has a 401k or a pension is in the market. I am not suggesting that anyone invest in the market. If you don’t understand and have a plan, you will over time lose your money. I sold a stock today. Bought it at 78.00 and sold at 85.17. I felt it was near its peak. At the end of the day it closed at 84.87. If it goes up tomorrow I am ok with that. If it goes back down near 80.00 i will buy it again. It pays a little over 5% dividend. If it goes back up near 85.00 I will sell it again. If it doesn’t go up I will collect the dividend. If it goes down below 78.00 I will sell it and take a small lose.
I don’t want this to be a harangue on the stock. I just want people to plan for the future. I feel bad when I read about good people being out on the street because they reach old age and end up with nothing. Just remember when Herbert got divorced, his wife got a home in the foothills of Tucson, a Mercedes and a 5 million dollar bank account.
Jim-AZ
Being a gearhead, I've always likened a good investment portfolio to a V-8 engine. At any given time, some of the pistons are up, some are down, and others at midpoints, but the vehicle is always moving forward.
Gold, Platinum, and Silver are always good additions to a portfolio. They provide shelter for the storms.
BB
Jim, Thanks for your story. I'm not against owning individual stocks, just pointing out to the financial incompetent who thinks investing is a "sin" (yeah I know he/she didn't say that but that is the acog mindset on investing), that they are more risky than a fund. But I'm sure you knew that.
Kevin McMillen
"Just remember when Herbert got divorced, his wife got a home in the foothills of Tucson, a Mercedes and a 5 million dollar bank account.
Jim-AZ"
Ramona was a good invester, she invested in an old, arrogant, horny man for her old age.
Kevin
Yes Kevin
I agree there is more risk in owning individual stocks
as opposed to a fund. We are on the same page along with Byker Bob. Many people think buying a mutual fund is gambling. For some it would be gambling because they have not taken the time to educate themselves. My concern is for people who do nothing. Often times they let someone talk them in to a risky deal and end up losing money, then once burned they promise themselves never invest in anything. Anyway Kevin sounds like you are on the right track even for a mountaineer.
Jim-AZ
"Anyway Kevin sounds like you are on the right track even for a mountaineer.
Jim-AZ"
I live in the hometown of the WVU Mountaineers, both my son and daughter are alumni.
Kevin
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