I imagine Jesus is getting pretty pissed at having to constantly cancel his second coming (or 3rd if you are Dave Pack) because people in the Churches of God just aren't ready. Plus, with so many prophets running around speaking in his name, I imagine it is hard to keep track of which one he is supposed to be returning to.
The Great Tribulation Cannot Start Before 2024!
Those who believe and understand what the Bible actually teaches realize that the Great Tribulation cannot begin before 2024.
While years ago I wrote that the Great Tribulation could start during Donald Trump’s first term (which ends in January of 2021), it should now be more certain for others to realize that this is so.
Jesus gave a variety of signs/events that had to happen prior to the start of the Great Tribulation in Matthew 24. Not only have many not happened, a preceding event in Daniel 9:27 involving the confirmation of a seven-year deal still has not happened. Since it did not happen as of yet, this means that it is not possible for the Great Tribulation to begin for at least 3 1/2 years (half of a biblically-prophetic week).
At this instant, unless we see more major conflict in the Middle East between now and the end of the Summer and Daniel 9:27 fulfilled in the Fall, it is unlikely that the Great Tribulation can begin prior to 2025.
People who claim to be COG, like Ronald Weinland and the late James Malm, have repeatedly been in error as to timing as they have looked to their own understanding instead of what the Bible teaches.
I find it funny to watch the various self-appointed prophets of Armstrongism constantly claiming the other guy is wrong, while they never are. It does not require much thinking by COG members or the public to know that Ron Weinland is a liar. He proved that in 2008 when he became the laughing stock of San Franciso and the COG.
The Great Tribulation is coming, but it will not begin in 2020 or 2021.
The problem boys and girls is that NO ONE outside the True Prophet's group has the intelligence or theological understanding to know WHEN the trib is about to hit so they can skedaddle to Petra and start decorating caves and digging latrines. Because you are not in his little cult, you CANNOT know when to flee or when the trib is about ready to hit. What an inconvenience!
That being said, please understand that the COGs associated with the Sardis and Laodicean churches cannot possibly know when the Great Tribulation will begin unless they change..
CG7-Denver, for one example, believes that most events in the Book of Revelation have already been fulfilled, so they are not officially looking for it. And the Laodicean churches have added extra, non-biblical events/requirements to precede the Great Tribulation, that are not necessary and hence those who believe them will NOT believe that the Great Tribulation will start until it is too late (see also The Laodicean Church Era).
As usual, our wanna-be self-appointed True Prophet has a long list of points to prove he is right and everyone else is wrong. It is a laundry list of some of the most idiotic stuff you could ever read and comes from a mind that constantly lives in a state of make-believe. It is a psychotic fantasy dream world, literally!
You will quickly see that he considers all other COG's to be blithering idiots and incapable of interpreting scripture. He and he alone is The Man!
Here is a listing of some of the wrong prophetic views of real and claimed COG groups:
People who claim to be COG, like Ronald Weinland and the late James Malm, have repeatedly been in error as to timing as they have looked to their own understanding instead of what the Bible teaches.
CG7-Denver, for one example, believes that most events in the Book of Revelation have already been fulfilled, so they are not officially looking for it. And the Laodicean churches have added extra, non-biblical events/requirements to precede the Great Tribulation, that are not necessary and hence those who believe them will NOT believe that the Great Tribulation will start until it is too late (see also The Laodicean Church Era).
1) Many COG groups (ICG, CGI, UCG, COGaIC, CG7-D, CGG, CEM, etc.) do not officially teach and/or do not believe in the idea of Church eras (The Churches of Revelation 2 & 3), though they sometimes teach about the churches of Revelation. They tend to take more of a preterist (past) view of those churches, despite the fact that many statements made to them had to have future prophetic ramifications (e.g. Revelation 1:19; 3:3; 3:10). Because of that they do not teach certain prophetic aspects of this, most do not see their own problems and will have to go through the Great Tribulation.
2) Many COG groups do not believe that the Gospel of the Kingdom still needs to be preached to the world as a witness per Matthew 24:14 (e.g. GCW, PCG), do not really make that a high priority (e.g. COGWA, CGG), or do so in less than truly loving the truth, hence do not have the real Philadelphian work. As only the Philadelphians are promised to be protected from the hour of trial that will come on the whole world, they will not understand when Matthew 24:14 is fulfilled or when to flee per Matthew 24:15. Hence they do not have or lead the Philadelphian work. Only the Philadelphians are promised to be protected from the hour of trial that will come on the whole world. There you have it once again, your salvation rests in his hands. There is no other COG or any church anywhere in the world that can protect you from the hour of trial coming. No one!
3) At least three groups misunderstand the Gospel and COG doctrines so much (PCG, CGPfK, and RCG) that I question if their top leaders are actually converted members of the COG. Two of those leaders have had major predictions be proven false (CGPFK and RCG).
I don't need to question whether our True Prophet is converted or not, it is plain as day. He is not. He is not even Christian because he denies the very one he claims to follow.
4) Many, if not most, COG groups do not realize that the Great Tribulation begins with the King of the North invading the USA. UK, and/or their Anglo-Saxon descended allies (Daniel 11:39).
Pure unadulterated bunk! This is the fantasy world he has been dreaming about for years. Even Rod Meredith mocked his understanding on this, as did most LCG ministers.
5) Many COG groups misunderstand the identity of the King of the South (Daniel 11:40-43), and some have the wrong prophetic sequence regarding the King of the South (see PCG and LCG do not understand the end-time King of the South sequence–do you?). This is not the order that Daniel 11 teaches (see Who is the King of the North?). This view overlooks the fact that since the Great Tribulation is the time of Jacob’s trouble (Jeremiah 30:7), that it begins with the USA and its Anglo-Saxon allies like the United Kingdom getting invaded (cf. Daniel 11:39). Some of the groups cling to this sequential error, because it was once held by the late Herbert W. Armstrong, who changed his view by 1979 (Armstrong, Herbert W. The Time We Are In, Now. Pastor General’s Report-Vol 1, No. 15, November 20, 1979). Since the King of the North will eliminate those of the strongest fortresses (the USA, Canada, etc.) in Daniel 11:39, prior to invading the King of the South in Daniel 11:40, those who hold to this view will not know when the Great Tribulation will begin until after it has started.
The only person who knows what will happen is our True Prophet. He and he alone has the answer. Herbert and his crew were too dumb to understand prophecy. God had to finally give the truth to our True Man!
6) Some (CEG, GCG-UK) teach that there is no biblically-required King of the South, while at least one group is unsure (CGF-NW)–but this is an error (see also Is the Future King of the South Rising Up?). This error contributes to other prophetic errors that those groups have.
7) Some have insisted that the final King of the South will be from the nation of Ethiopia. This is partially based upon a mistranslation in the KJV version of the Bible as well as a position that the late Herbert Armstrong once held. However, he changed his position in the 1960s and 1970s to an Arabic-Muslim confederation. Those who insist that the final King of the South must be Ethiopia will not possibly realize that the Great Tribulation will begin until it is too late (RCG once held that position, but later changed it; in 2018 LCG has pushed involvement, but not specifically kingship for Ethiopia).
8) Several COG groups (like CGG, RCG, PCG, COGWA) clearly misunderstand Daniel 9:27, the second half of which ties in with Daniel 11:31 and Jesus’ words in Matthew 24:15. Those who misunderstand it will not have a proper pre-warning of what is happening nor likely know when the Great Tribulation will begin.
Neither will any follower of our True Prophet, because none of this stuff is true. The church overall has spent 8 decades feeding us one bullshit story after another and not once has any of it been true when it comes to prophecy. All have been totally ignorant of prophecy and still are because that is where their focus is and not on the one to come. That inconvenient dude is always left by the wayside as the COG prepared to fight off the rampaging hoards of Germans, Muslims and Chinese or whoever the current boogeyman the church needed as a scapegoat.
9) Various COG groups (UCG, COGWA, COGaIC, RCG, and CGOM, come to immediate mind, but they are not the only ones) have so many areas of undefined prophecy that they will not know what certain events will mean. And groups who define matters wrongly will have problems that way as well (PCG and LCG come to immediate mind, but so do nearly all other COG claimed groups).
10) A couple of groups, such as Church of God-Preparing for the Kingdom of God and Triumph Prophetic Ministries, have been repeatedly proven wrong about their dates for the start of the Great Tribulation and the return of Jesus Christ. Those who rely on the leaders of those groups really do not understand biblical prophecy.
6) Some (CEG, GCG-UK) teach that there is no biblically-required King of the South, while at least one group is unsure (CGF-NW)–but this is an error (see also Is the Future King of the South Rising Up?). This error contributes to other prophetic errors that those groups have.
7) Some have insisted that the final King of the South will be from the nation of Ethiopia. This is partially based upon a mistranslation in the KJV version of the Bible as well as a position that the late Herbert Armstrong once held. However, he changed his position in the 1960s and 1970s to an Arabic-Muslim confederation. Those who insist that the final King of the South must be Ethiopia will not possibly realize that the Great Tribulation will begin until it is too late (RCG once held that position, but later changed it; in 2018 LCG has pushed involvement, but not specifically kingship for Ethiopia).
8) Several COG groups (like CGG, RCG, PCG, COGWA) clearly misunderstand Daniel 9:27, the second half of which ties in with Daniel 11:31 and Jesus’ words in Matthew 24:15. Those who misunderstand it will not have a proper pre-warning of what is happening nor likely know when the Great Tribulation will begin.
10) A couple of groups, such as Church of God-Preparing for the Kingdom of God and Triumph Prophetic Ministries, have been repeatedly proven wrong about their dates for the start of the Great Tribulation and the return of Jesus Christ. Those who rely on the leaders of those groups really do not understand biblical prophecy.
As has our True Prophet, Rod Meredith, Gerald Weston, Herbert Armstrong, Garner Ted, Herman Hoeh, Dean Blackwell, John Rittenbaugh, and all the rest of the prophecy nuts in the church.
11) Certain groups teach improper interpretations of the 1335, 1290, and 1260 days of Daniel 12 (CGPFK is one) or have other problems with that (most other COG groups) that they will not understand when the Great Tribulation will start. Herbert Armstrong changed his view on this by 1979 and many never understood the change.
12) Most COG groups fail to understand Habakkuk 2:2-8 and hence are not properly getting the warning out to the USA and UK. PCG totally misses it, and LCG, while it once would teach it, has backed off because of what appears to be internal politics. The rising ‘time bomb’ of USA debt is something that needs to be pointed out and Habakkuk 2:2-8 points out the biblical threat that this poses. It should be proclaimed and we in CCOG are doing it. Many do not realize that Habakkuk 2:2-8 is related to fleeing and the start of the Great Tribulation, that the time will come when those Philadelphians who understand it in its proper timeframe will flee, and is one of the reasons for the attack against the indebted descendants of the tribes of Joseph.
13) At least one group (LCG) is no longer certain that France or certain other Israelitish nations will support the Beast power. This differs from the position specifically taught by the late Dibar Apartian as well as what the Bible teaches. Those who misunderstand this are likely to not possibly realize when the final Beast power has formed.
Dibar Apartian was not a sound theologian and made some of the most idiotic predictions and biblical interpretations ever. He caused a lot of damage over the decades with the junk he preached.
14) Many COG groups have various ‘Elijah heresies’ (CGI-derived groups and RCG come to mind). Because of this, they will not be able to recognize the final Elijah.
Every single COG out there that believes any human leader of any of the COG's is Elijah is a fool. That includes believing the self-appointed True Prophet we are expected to believe.
15) Some think that either there is no Elijah to come (ICG) or that it is the church and not an individual (cf. LCG), which goes against Jesus’ teachings on the subject in Mark 9:12-13 (for more details, see The Elijah Heresies).
Lazy Christians who need to be told what to believe and need an Elijah to come and save them because they have never been taught about what Jesus did and accomplished. They need some self-appointed twit in the church to be their saviour and tell them what to do. Jesus cannot do anything for them, but our True Prophet can!
The COG has had literally hundreds of Elijah's pop up on the scene over the decades claiming they were the true Elijah. I remember one who picketed with huge signs in front of the Hall of Ad in the 1980s for weeks on end, till his prophecy failed. He was a self-appointed liar like our True Prophet.
16) Many groups do not understand the differing persecutions (and other matters) to come in Daniel 7:25, 11:30-39, Matthew 24:9-22, and Revelation 12:14-17, hence when the prophesied wave of persecution initially hits the Philadelphians primarily (and not them), they will not see this persecution as evidence that the Great Tribulation is about to begin. The old Radio Church of God specifically applied the persecuting scriptures of Daniel 11:32-35 to the end time Philadelphian church.
Our True Prophet claims that he and he alone will be persecuted before any of the other COG's are. Because the other COG's are not being persecuted like he is, they will not know it is time to flee.
Never has the COG had a self-appointed leader filled with such a persecution-complex as we have with our True Prophet. This poor guy claims he is constantly being persecuted. He has no idea what persecution is as he sits in his nice home each night with his stomach full and his trusty glass of wine close by as he listens to the Young Ambassadors sing songs from the '70s and '80s and he dreams of days gone by when Rod Meredith actually liked him. Those were the good old days!
17) Most groups that came out of groups once led by the late Garner Ted Armstrong (ICG, CGI, CEM, etc.) do not seem to teach that there is a physical place of safety (despite what Revelation 12:14-16 teaches), hence they will not be inclined to flee towards one just prior to the start of the Great Tribulation.
18) Most ‘independents’ do not believe that they need to ‘gather together’ prior to the time to flee despite what Zephaniah 2:1-3 teaches, hence it is not likely they will be inclined to flee together when a group they are not part of does just prior to the start of the Great Tribulation.
Like Dave Pack, our True Prophet had a nightmare where a "demon" told him that it was his job to gather in all the wayward COG's and independents out there and bring them into his group so that there can be a final push and so he can bring as many to Petra as possible.
19) At least one group (PCG) misunderstands the final Prince of Rosh. Those who insist on a pre-return of Jesus Christ for the fulfillment of Ezekiel 38 will be disappointed as that is in scriptural error.
20) At least one COG group (CG7-D) basically teaches that most of the events of Revelation have already taken place and no one needs to worry about coming persecution. Jesus warned those of Sardis to be careful about losing the doctrinal understandings they had (Revelation 3:1-6), and this loss of prophetic knowledge proves that those in Sardis will not know when the Great Tribulation will begin.
If there was a Sardis era, which there isn't in this day and age, it is the only COG that is actually doing a work and making a difference in people's lives. HWA, Meredith, and others used to mock the Church of God Seventh Day as being the Sardis era because they rejected a lot of the dreamed-up stuff HWA tried to foster off on them. COG7 ahs more members and baptizes more people in a year than all the COG's combined. They actually make a difference in peoples lives, unlike the present hodgepodge of floundering COG's
21) At least one COG group (LCG) erroneously believes that the abomination of desolation of Daniel 11:31 occurs after the King of the North invades the King of the South. Since this will not happen that way, those who hold to that position will not understand when the Great Tribulation will begin.
22) At least one group (RCG) totally misunderstands various prophecies in Haggai and Zechariah and expect a type of reunification that is not prophesied. Those who rely on this and other misinterpretations will not know when the Great Tribulation will begin.
23) At least one group (LCG) erroneously teaches that the ‘Falling Away’ warned about in 2 Thessalonians 2 has mainly to do with the world and Protestants and not the Church of God. This improper emphasis seems to be leading to a falling away of certain prophetic understandings for those who hold to it.
24) Some groups teach (UCG, COGWA, LCG, CEG) that the man of sin who sits in the temple of God (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4) is the Antichrist/false prophet, not the Beast of the Sea. Yet, it is this Beast of the Sea, the final King of the North. So, when this happens, those who hold to the wrong position will not understand its prophetic ramifications. The Beast identity of the ‘son of perdition’ (cf. Revelation 17:7-11) is important to understand in the end times.
Most people realize that the man of sin sits in Arroyo Grande. Has the church ever had a bigger sinner that our True Prophet?
25) At least two groups teach that the ‘man of sin’ is (or could be) Joseph Tkach, Jr. (PCG, COG-FF). This absurd position also partially leads to many other misunderstandings.
26) At least one group (RCG) has declared Satan will enter a COG leader to make him the man of sin.
I think this may have already happened. Never has the church had a man in its midst with more dreamed up self-aggrandizing qualifications than our True Prophet. From fake double blessings, wild fantastical nightmare/dreams, retracted blessings of Rod Meredith and so much more. Only a possessed mind that is on the verge of a psychotic break can come up with so much of this stuff.
27) A few teach that a Jewish temple in Jerusalem must be rebuilt before Jesus returns (CBCG, RCG, COGFF, CEG, and TPM teach this, as do some in LCG). While this is remotely possible it is not required. Since this will not happen as a few sometimes teach, those who hold to that position will not understand when the Great Tribulation will begin.
28) At least two groups (PCG and LCG) teach that the Beast power will consist of 10 or 11 current nations in the European Union. The European Union has 28 nation members with several others hoping to join it. And while it may lose nations, the reality is that if the Beast power rises up when there are more than 11 nations in it, those who hold to that position will not understand when the Great Tribulation will begin. Under Herbert Armstrong, the old WCG taught in at least a dozen documents (Plain Truth, Good News, Tomorrow’s World, booklets, Co-worker letter, Bible Correspondence Course) that this passage referred to 10 nations or GROUPS OF NATIONS. Presuming it will be another number of nations, those who insist on 10 or 11 will not realize when the Great Tribulation will begin.
29) Some groups (CBCG and CGG) teach that the ten kings are to be in charge of ten regions around the world as opposed to being a primarily European power. Overlooking what will happen in Europe could mean that such a group would not understand when the Great Tribulation would begin.
30) None of the Laodicean or Sardis COGs seem to teach that the “strongest fortresses” in Daniel 11:39 refers to the USA–but it does. Although the evangelists at LCG all agreed I was correct about this, when I checked LCG’s two major websites in 2017, there was no place where LCG teaches this–this is an improper and dangerous error of omission for LCG–and for the other claimed COGs.
All the evangelists of LCG did NOT agree with our True Prophet. That is just a fantasy of his own making. Our True Prophet was widely mocked behind his back by certain LCG evangelists and leading ministers. Do not swallow the grandiose fantasy that LCG leaders looked upon our True Prophet as a true prophet of God. They did not. That is why Meredith had to publicly rebuke our True Prophet and knock him down a lot of rungs on the ladder.
31) At least two groups seem to teach that the first verse in the Daniel 11 sequence relating to the beginning of the Great Tribulation is Daniel 11:40. Instead they should teach that it begins with Daniel 11:39 (see also USA in Prophecy: The Strongest Fortresses), which is shortly after Daniel 11:31, which is also consistent with the start of the time of Jacob’s trouble (Jeremiah 30:7; see also Who is the King of the North?). Those who hold to the Daniel 11:40 position will not understand when the Great Tribulation will begin.
32) The leader of at least former one group (GOI, James Malm, now deceased) has claimed that the Great Tribulation could begin within a year for the last 11 or so years. Since he did not recognize why this is in error, any his his remaining followers will not truly know when the Great Tribulation will begin.
Our True Prophet and others have been claiming the end is near for many years now. The date keeps getting pushed back further and further as nothing happens year after year and they get older. The church is never ready. Never fear though, the True Prophet is here to tell you when the crap is hitting the fan. You are supposed to believe you need him. You don't need that inconvenient dude who said to place your trust and faith in him and he would carry your burdens because you have been made weary from all the bloviating COG prophets.
33) Some independents and some groups (PCG comes to mind) insist that the late Herbert W. Armstrong was the final ‘Elijah to come’ despite the fact that he has been dead since 1986, and that death disqualifies him according to his writing about that.
34) Leaders of at least two groups (CGPFK and RCG), who once insisted publicly that Herbert Armstrong must be the final Elijah, now falsely claim that they hold that role.
As does our True Prophet. Gerald Flurry, Dave Pack, Ron Weinland, and a couple other crackpots believe they are Elijah. In order to leave them by the wayside, our True Prophet also had to claim he was Elisha, Amos, Habbakuk, Jeremiah, Joseph, Micah, Johsua, Malachai, and a host of other nonsensical names.
35) Some groups either do not believe there is an Elijah to come (CGIcomes to mind) or do not believe he needs to be a person (LCGcomes to mind).
36) At least one group has confused the final Elijah with the return of Jesus (LCG comes to mind).
37) At least one group has publicly claimed that God has no prophets today and will not have any until the two witnesses are empowered (LCG comes to mind). This downplays how God works (cf. Ephesians 2:20) and that the Bible teaches, “Surely the Lord God does nothing, Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets” (Amos 3:7).
There is no need for a prophet today. The one and only prophet you need has come and will come again, at some point. You don't need to worry when or about all of these lying self-appointed wannabe's littering the landscape out there. They are worthless and irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
38) At least one group (CGG) teaches that the Beast power is not European. Since the Beast power will arise in Europe, those who do not understand this will not realize when the Great Tribulation is about to begin.
39) At least one group (LCG) teaches that the European Union will collapse like the old Roman Empire. But the lessons of history and the Bible contradict that.
40) At least two groups (BICOG and TPM) have taught that a US president is the King of the North or could be the Antichrist.
41) Nearly all COG groups and independents do not accept that God has been fulfilling prophecies of Acts 2:17-18 .
And there you have it, 41 useless and irrelevant points that are of no use to anyone who is a follower of Christ. Because our True Prophet has lied to us so much over the last several years and uttered many false prophecies, he is not to be believed or followed. If you are a follower of Christ and scripture you immediately know what a liar he is. Scripture condemns him.
So the next time you see Bob Thiel bloviating on his miraculousness, turn and run. Your brain and God with thank you!
28) At least two groups (PCG and LCG) teach that the Beast power will consist of 10 or 11 current nations in the European Union. The European Union has 28 nation members with several others hoping to join it. And while it may lose nations, the reality is that if the Beast power rises up when there are more than 11 nations in it, those who hold to that position will not understand when the Great Tribulation will begin. Under Herbert Armstrong, the old WCG taught in at least a dozen documents (Plain Truth, Good News, Tomorrow’s World, booklets, Co-worker letter, Bible Correspondence Course) that this passage referred to 10 nations or GROUPS OF NATIONS. Presuming it will be another number of nations, those who insist on 10 or 11 will not realize when the Great Tribulation will begin.
29) Some groups (CBCG and CGG) teach that the ten kings are to be in charge of ten regions around the world as opposed to being a primarily European power. Overlooking what will happen in Europe could mean that such a group would not understand when the Great Tribulation would begin.
30) None of the Laodicean or Sardis COGs seem to teach that the “strongest fortresses” in Daniel 11:39 refers to the USA–but it does. Although the evangelists at LCG all agreed I was correct about this, when I checked LCG’s two major websites in 2017, there was no place where LCG teaches this–this is an improper and dangerous error of omission for LCG–and for the other claimed COGs.
41 comments:
I spent about 15 seconds skimming the large posting.
It occurs to me that HWA developed the "Ethiopia" theory at a time when Ethiopia was still somewhat center in the daily headlines with Italian involvement in the region. A time when Tanzania was German and the Philipines American.
Nasr and the Arab league provided a great new theory until that collapsed.
I remember GTA articles claiming it would be Syria and today COG's point to a non Arab nation, Iran or the former Persiam which better fits the ancient rivalries between the West and East since before Alexander the Great. Oh wait did I say East. It should be a Southern King, oh whatever, go figure.
Anyway I remember when WCG fell apart that friends starting asking me if I though that the end time would be imminent. At the time around 1990 me being a European Law "expert" figured that according to WCG timelines it would not be practical to either unite or attack the USA within the next 20 years.
It was only after my "expert" explanation that I noticed the "brownish PCG enveloppe" that was sent to him by former members. But I didn't pay attention since WCG in 1990 was still alive and kicking and any minor "prophets" were moot and crazy,heading for their destruction in my opinion.
Little did I know that today we would speak about those nut cases as "the larger splinter groups."
nck
Bob sounds desperate.
The Old Testament prophets trusted in God They did their thing, then waited on God. You don't find them begging the people (or the King, etc.) to be believed.
He's the Pathetic Prophet.
Bwana Bob, the Pathetic Prophet of Posssibly
Bwana Bob is *HILARIOUS*
- he needs to let that hair grow & dress in full-length Jesus gown -
- would not look out of place in California -
Now this one was actually fun! When does this 'prophet' have time to do his 'work' as a prophet while he seemingly spends his time examining mocking what so many other churches teach? All I got from this is that he continues to make personal guesses as a self-proclaimed prophet as he condemns guesses put forth by others.
There is an abundance of material in this Millerite foray into prophecy (once again). But it is all the usual predictive drivel based on the bewildering book of Revelation. So I will focus on one point. First I will say when you view splinter groups as religious businesses, this kind of Victor Houteff stuff is practical because it extends the status quo for, say, another five years. Then there will be another extension. This keeps the ball bouncing - which is the point, after all. Here goes:
David Koresh, another Millerite prophet, proclaimed himself to be "The Lamb of God" who was the only person qualified to open the Seals of he Book of Revelation. I think he was supposed to open the Seventh Seal - I don't remember. The problem is, David Koresh is dead. So the Branch Davidians no longer have The Lamb to open the Seals and some now believe that David Koresh must of necessity return from the dead. They have a long wait.
This same thing happened within Armstrongism. HWA told Ron Kelly: "I am Elijah." Kelly found this statement disturbing. (Google it.) HWA was not saying that he was in the role of Elijah but that he was the actual person Elijah. All the splinter groups believe that HWA spoke ex cathedra. If they question his infallibility they disqualify their organizations from being doctrinally compatible to HWA's teaching and heirs to the One True Church. No splinter group leader can licitly concoct an Elijah different from HWA. If the leader does so, he would be abrogating HWA's office as Apostle and denying the status of his own organization.
The splinters must then develop and alternative Elijah Theory. Since HWA is the actual Elijah and is dead, then Elijah's preparation for the return of Christ must be finished and there is no need for "The Work" and all those tithes and offerings. Or if the preparation is unfinished then the critical event for the continued march of prophecy is the return to life of HWA and all the other detail extracted by whatever particular flakey calculus from Revelation does not mean anything - certainly no chronology can be established.
Oh, yes. The Tribulation happened in 70 AD and nobody knows when Christ will return.
Bob saw that all the COGprophets, starting with William Miller, were proved wrong when setting end-time dates, so he nay-says everyone else's predictions by claiming they were too soon. Dr Peter Venkman (Bill Murray) suggested this to one of his guests on World of the Psychic (Ghostbusters II).
Perhaps Bob could use the moniker Bizarro Bob, the prophet who tells you when things won't happen!
NEO, you're forgetting that HWA actually wrote, in the Worldwide News, that he was NOT "the Elijah." See it for yourself, on page 10, third column:
Worldwide News 3/6/81
Any group that calls HWA the Elijah is calling HWA a liar. Some leaders want to exalt HWA so they can be exalted by association, but he himself ruled out that theory, in print, as you can see above.
I, the Prophet Tonto, announces...
The Great Tribulation will start AFTER 1972 !
“The Great Tribulation Cannot Start Before 2024!”
Yes it can!
Your own personal Great Tribulation can start as soon as you fall for a false prophet like Flurry, Pack, Weinland, or Thiel.
I'm amazed at the amount of time Bob must have spent familiarising himself with the other ACOGs beliefs. That time and effort could have been spent constructively by eg exercising or developing priceless skills. He's wasting his life on academic drivel.
Was this Biker Bob who wrote this?
familiarising himself with the other ACOGs beliefs
The third time I was counselled by a WCG minister I told him I was contrasting different denominations with WCG. He told me I was wasting my time and should concentrate on studying the truth.
More recently someone told me I should hear out other people's opinions. At first I thought that was also a waste of time, but then realized it can be beneficial to find the source of others' opinions - different approach altogether.
9.24 AM
No seems to know what happened to Biker Bob. He might have died for all we know.
Anonymous at 7:51 AM said...“NEO, you're forgetting that HWA actually wrote, in the Worldwide News, that he was NOT 'the Elijah.' See it for yourself, on page 10, third column: Worldwide News 3/6/81”
Three paragraphs later, HWA wrote:
“I'm going to say something to you now, that I would not have said five or six years ago under any circumstances.”
Read the article again, more carefully this time.
Anonymous (7:51) Here's the quote:
"In the last two years of his life, in several sermons, he was even more explicit when he said directly, “I am Elijah.” When Ron Kelly, one of our longtime ministers, heard Mr. Armstrong say this, he confessed to me, “I was alarmed when I heard him say, ‘I am Elijah.’ I could handle, ‘I’m in the role of Elijah.’ But ‘I am Elijah – what did he mean by that?”
Apparently, HWA changed his mind on this topic between 1981 and 1984. He at one time even balked at being called "The Apostle" but later avidly embraced the idea. So there is a precedent for this kind of watershed change.
Anonymous said...
9.24 AM
No seems to know what happened to Biker Bob. He might have died for all we know.
Biker Bob is fine and no, Tonto, he is not James Malm.
7.51 AM
HWA was responsible for what was taught in his church, and we were often instructed from the pulpit that HWA was the end time Elijah.
An abusive cult ploy is to occasionally tell a truth but swamp it by frequently telling the exact opposite. This way they can claim to be teaching the truth while effectively teaching something different. So a occasional quote from a ACOG means little. The bible condemns such guile.
The 1984 "Behind the Work" movie "The heart of the Children" (featuring me as supporting actor for 3 seconds) speaks about "one coming in the spirit of Elijah"
I thought it a funny Elijah with a YOU cap as proof of his lofty position in the scheme of things.
The only Elijah that really flew a fiery chariot for sure.
Boy I hated it when that Gulfstrean executive handed the keys with the words "Its all yours sir."
I thought, no, its the church's chariot fool. Stupid worldly businessman. Of course the executive knew hwa was Elijah all along.
Nck
11.09 AM
Well in that case, you can practise what you preach by spending all your free time for the next several months researching all the differences in the ACOGs. You can report back to this site, instructing us in detail how all the splinters differ, especially in their understanding of prophesy and holy day dates. And don't forget to give us a explanation detailing how they derived these dates and why they differ.
I'm looking forward to your article on Banned.
Yeah, what ever happened to Byker Bob? He has not been on here for a couple of months. Maybe he's said all that he needs to say about Armstrongism and has just moved on riding into the sunset?
Hey, I noticed Bob Thiel made another booklet for his Church. It's called "Who Gave The World
The Bible"? What do guys think about that?
Blabbering bob is still an idiot...I've been dealing with this clown for over twenty years when I tried to communicate with him over his nonsense about Passover. Any person calling themselves a "prophet" clearly is not one.
The USA/NATO block is the military power of the King of the North. Who rules the USA military?
Iran is the King of the South, fixing to be "shock and awed" in the near future by USA/NATO forces (King of the North), controlled by the zionists.
Russia/China (BRICS) are the Kings of the East of Rev 16:12.
The Beast Power of Rev 13 are the G7/Club of Rome. (seven heads ten horns)
Pope Francis is the False Prophet of Rev 13:11-18.
Fraud Theil is stuck in the HWA/RCM mold of the EU being the beast power. the EU is a pussified block run by liberal females who are doing their best to weaken the entire continent. HWA was wrong on prophecy and Theil sticks to HWA's outdated and WRONG model. You can watch the FACTS unfold on the nightly news.
Theil can't get Passover right, and certainly does not have prophecy right...he clearly is not led by the Holy Spirit. He is led by his master, satan.
Donald Trump rules the USA military and NATO. He bitch-slaps the EU/G7 on a regular basis. Trump is the King of the North.
There is not a "last week" of Dan 9. That prophecy was totally completed when the captives returned to Jerusalem after precisely 70 years, just as the prophecies stated in Jeremiah. And there will be a final false temple built in Jerusalem, once again to precisely fulfill the prophecies.
Will Theil read this post and confess his errors...??? Doubtful. It is more likely he will read this and then rip me off and claim he came up with understanding.
I have read a few non COG prophecy books. While one got quite wild with their interpretations, another made a much more sensible interpretation. He based all the prophecies on the Jews, and the return of the Jews to the land of Israel.
The COG interpretation is based on USA and UK being Manasseh and Ephraim. When this fell apart, then our prophetic interpretation fell apart. Of course we have the DNA deniers - science is only good when it agrees with their delusions. And yes, I was deluded too, until their were too many opposing facts to keep ignoring.
Bob, Rey Ano Jugoso de los Mayas, really demoted himself when he went from Cog Writer to Prophet.
When Bob was the COG Writer, being Spanky's whipping boy and churning out that drivel COGlodytes drool over, he definitely had a bigger following than he does now, running his own cult, under all his many vain, self-bestowed titles.
His ego must be engaged in an epic battle; should he continue in his current suffering obscurity or attempt a come-back as GOG Writer?
Either way, he'll always be my favorite prophet!
Byker Bob is doing just fine. Like everyone here, he has a real-life outside this. He said hello to everyone and might at some point pop back on.
3:08 pm "Hey, I noticed Bob Thiel made another booklet for his Church. It's called; Who Gave The World The Bible"? What do guys think about that?
I took a quick look at Bwana Bob's booklet. For a guy who claims to have a real Ph.D. in theology (bought from a diploma mill in India) his booklet reads like a freshman term paper of someone in 1st year Bible. It is sophomoric and juvenile. This is not Ph.D. material and would never have been qualified to pass if Bob had been to a real seminary. He would be laughed out of the room. But remember, most of Bob's followers are in Africa and do not concern themselves of junk like this, no one will anyone else pay it much attention. The rest of his followers are Armstrongites who believe all the junk Herbert Armstrong and others taught about the Bible. He even quotes them along with John Ogwyn as authorities on the Bible. My favorite part was that reason no complete set of original texts is here on earth is that they are in a library in heaven. Thiel is dumber than a jackass.
@ NO2HWA,
Good to hear Byker Bob is doing well.
For a guy who claims to have a real Ph.D. in theology
Maybe he'd use the David [Pack] Defense: I'm not writing it for scholars [but maybe scullers].
The more I read from Thiel the more I understand why Rod Meredith kicked him out of Living Church of God. There is no rational thinking in any of his posts and his sermons are one big incredible mess of freshman Bible class. It is more proof that is Ph.D. from his Indian diploma mill was a piece of worthless paper. LCG was right in kicking him to the curb for his act of rebellion and for his outright lies.
Who Gave The World The Bible
Bob certainly puts out a lot of material, but personally I think he should put more effort into quality rather than quantity, and supporting his own positions better rather than contrasting them with and discrediting others.
On the question of scholarship, I'd say this book was neither in the domain of scholarship nor 'popular' theology. The bibliography did have a good selection, and I've personally found some of the titles more informative and better reading than Bob's 'canon fodder' compilation.
Always willing and able to help Bob by offering my services as a proofreader, fact-checker, editor, critic...
Theil's booklet - more questions than "answers". Some parts read like catechism:
Who gave the world the Bible?
God did.
Did God inspire translators of the Septuagint to improve His own words as many Eastern Orthodox claim?
No.
Did God inspire Martin Luther to add words to the Bible that He did not originally have?
No.
Why did Gospel writers use the Septuagint instead of the Hebrew version for their quotes?
Does he answer this one?
Inquiring minds want to know!
What does Bitter Bwana Bob, the Pathetic Prophet of Possibly, say about Psalm 104?
He says Moses was the first author of a Biblical text. However, he says nothing about the 14th Century BC "Hymn to Aten" which duplicates the first nine verses of Psalm 104. Akhenaten, the Egyptian god who venerated Aten, pre-dated Moses. Yet David, who lived hundreds of years after Moses, knew about this hymn written for a pagan (albeit monotheistic) deity, and incorporated his own version of the ancient Egyptian hymn into worship of YHVH. This also calls into question the ACOG notion that God doesn't want us to use pagan practices in worship of YHVH; if David did it so blatantly, why shouldn't we?
"Why did Gospel writers use the Septuagint instead of the Hebrew version for their quotes?"
Alexander the Great.
1:59 PM, you called Akhenaten a god, but he was the king who worshipped the god Aten. Probably just a typo, but you really should proofread your stuff before posting. Your point is fine, though. Bob's just not a textual scholar. He's not even a scholar. He's a Bible-reader who thinks he's hot stuff because Rod Meredith flattered him for a couple of decades as a wealthy tithe-payer. That's all.
3:08
Interesting point. If Akhenaten is the father of Monotheism, was he than the first pharaoh not to be considered a god?
According to some theories, Akhenaten and David were contemporaries, because the diplomatic correspondence in the Amarna letters and the cries for help from the "coastal cities" because of the "mountain tribes rising under Labau", are the only pissible reflection of a political vaccuum, that enabled the mountain tribes to rise and attack philistine strongholds, as Egypt was occupied with internsal problems with a king gone bezerk concerning the one aten.
Nck
Speaking about the ancient Egyptians.
They might have been "Israelite". In Tel Meggiddo they found Scyths also (from Caucasus).
I mean in defiance of the ridiculous notion anyway that the Egyptians were "African" research on 90 mummies so far has identified them to be closer to Anatolians or Armenians.
Of course, all the chicks on the paintings look like the Kardashians, who needs DNA research, when you have the pictures.
nck
TLA 11:21 said: “Why did Gospel writers use the Septuagint instead of the Hebrew version for their quotes?”
I believe it’s because the Septuagint was based on a more ancient source of the Scriptures than the Masoretic text ie there was an older more accurate source that was used by the scribes who compiled the Septuagint unlike the Masoretic text.
You are all bitter about the True Prophet; you deny him; you are of your father the Devil; and his evil works you will do ; repent of your evil deeds and lies and embrace the true end time Prophet of God; support the end Time work; and stop your blasphemous lies; it is your choice; do what is right; time is not on your side
embrace the true end time Prophet of God
Yeah, Bob is light enough in the loafers that he would enjoy that for sure. His wife, however, might become upset and jealous.
Bob Thiel is according to July 11, 2020 at 12:37 AM “the True Prophet” and “the true end time Prophet of God”?!?!
PROVE IT!!!
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