Ron Weinland is not happy. There are people in his tiny little cult that have an "argumentative spirit" against him. How dare the dumb sheeple ever question God's chosen one! How dare they! This is the same thing that drives Bob Thiel bonkers as it does Dave Pack. How can anyone ever question these prophets in our midst? We would NEVER do that, would we? Seriously!
So again, this matter of strife and contention, argumentative spirit has no place in God’s Church and not amongst God’s people, against God’s people, and especially not toward God’s ministry. Sometimes it’s hard for people to grasp what we do when we fight that fight, because that is against God very powerfully so. That’s how He takes that. Because that’s what it is, it’s a spiritual thing.
Maybe if all of these COG blowhards treated members right, stopped spiritually abusing them, stopped stealing their money, and stopped lying, then members would have nothing to complain about. However, once a COG prophet ordains himself to some lofty position they can never shut up.
Anyway, let’s go on over to John 17, because this message of these things should not exist in God’s Church, and especially toward God’s ministry, whether it be the prophets of old or within the New Testament and things that are said there, these are things that make very clear how the Body of Christ is to function, especially within the Church, and it is without contention, it is without divisiveness, it is with the spirit of oneness and unity of mind.
It is the ministry and church leaders who have divided the church. They are the ones causing division. If they weren't then there would be no Thiel's, Packs, Flurry's, and Weinland's flapping their pie-holes continually.
The Armstrongite version of the Church of God was born out of division and an argumentative spirit and has been rocked by it internally from day one, even in the glory years so many fondly look back at. Unity has never been a teaching of the church. How can they be unified when they never mention the guy that is supposed to unify them in One Spirit?
31 comments:
I have the solution for Ron's angst and dilemma. It isn't God's Church, and they aren't God's ministers! So, there, Ron, no need to wonder or worry any more. Worrying can give you an ulcer. And, anger leads to depression.
Ron should be locked away somewhere for his own good.
This is typical ACOG-land speak. Members are expected to fake reality and pretend that they are living in a garden of Eden, and applaud the naked emperors fine new clothes.
I agree with this post. We should never question one of God’s ministers. The only problem, I have never met one of God’s ministers. These blow hard guys a full of hot air.
Jim-AZ
The ACOG's sprung from a 19th century heresy called Millerism. Heresy is one of the works of the flesh noted by Paul in Gal. 5:19-21. This is why any form of ACOGism eventually falls apart. Read that passage, and you'll see the other works of the flesh that are so evident in the WCG and its spinoffs. It's impossible to have unity in a group with those problems. It's a pity they never took to heart Gal.5:22-26. It would have given them the unity they wanted, but never achieved. Sad, really sad.
Heresy is one of the works of the flesh noted by Paul in Gal. 5:19-21. This is why any form of ACOGism eventually falls apart.
That Greek word you see in your NKJV as "heresies" is translated by modern English Bibles as "factions." I don't think it means what you think it means. Also, factions don't always lead to things falling apart; if it did, we wouldn't see Catholicism and Mormonism and Seventh-Day Adventism existing side-by-side and far larger than Armstrongism.
Again. To the pen for fraud.
People will get more truth, and more guidance from watching the ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW or BONANZA reruns on TV LAND than from Weinland.
Tonto:
Kemo-sabe, how come you a getting so much flak all of a sudden? Are you Diehl's replacement? Where is Diehl? No one has struck an atheist note for a while now. Anonymous lurkers badgered the atheist brother about cycles of leaving and then coming back hoping that it would lead to his permanent exit. He shouldn't let the partisan artillery get him down. Neither should you.
Tonto has been getting them for some time now. A lot of them went straight into the trash, others get posted occasionally because of their craziness. What you saw posted about Dennis was just the tip of the iceberg at times, but even then a lot never made it through.
9.35 AM
NEO, have you ever asked yourself what motivated Dennis in his war against readers belief in God and the bible? And yet you defend him.
Neotherm:
Lone Ranger has given me a number of Silver Bullets , so I guess Im ok! LOL!
On this forum you get a lot more flak if you have a picture. Its like dealing with a bunch of 4 year olds, who can only look at the pictures in a story book to get the message.
Anonymous 10:34
I did not defend his message. I warred back. Iron sharpens iron. He brought things up that I had never thought about. I defend not his message but the value of his participation. I believe what motivated Dennis was his honest belief in a materialism coupled with the incarnational issues with the Bible. I would likewise defend your place at the table. Every rational brother should have a place at the table.
Anon at 3/10/22 at 7:25 AM PST I used the standard KJV. That version transliterates the original Greek word. And factions/heresies do lead to things falling apart. The pioneers of Protestantism into disunity within a decade after they left the Catholic Church. Mormonism has hsd several schisms since its founding. Likewise, SDA. Remember the COG 7th Day and the Branch Davidians?
Ha Ha! Wouldn't it be nice if the humongous daily ration of crap that is given to Bob Thiel would make him go away?
Phinnpoy doesn't seem to be able to recognize a tautology. His great insight is that factions are factions.
But how does this help our understanding? Factions can be God's idea when He is setting aside Gideon's 300-man faction. Or they can be man's idea when breaking the Eastern Orthodox believers away from Roman Catholicism.
There are some who would argue (and some have done so quite convincingly on other Armstrong-Dissident sites!) that the break away of the Eastern Orthodox from everyone's favorite villains the Catholics, was actually of God.
The larger issue which you just raised and of which you are apparently in search, 2:01, is how do you know what was of God, what was of man, and which of man's moves were already anticipated by God, who ended up using them to His advantage as part of His greater plan??? Do you make the judgment call on those things, or do you allow your guru to distinguish them for you?
1.44 PM
The Catholics are riddled with ideological schisms themselves, but still choose to stay under the one roof.
The BIBLE is a JIGSAW PUZZLE and ALL of the PIECES MUST be PROPERLY PUT TOGETHER to GET a FULL UNDERSTANDING.
We have dissidents, but over time they will either conform or they will leave, if they're not excommunicated for refusing to abide by what the Church teaches. Faithful Catholics won't give them any credance
Phinnpoy how dare you not use the translation most preferred by Anon! Heresies is a reasonable translation as the word seems to be based in thoughts and opinions not the structure of a faction. What Anon "doesn't seem to get" (his language) is that the context is that these are works of the flesh (you know, bad things), so a good faction would not be intended within the context. I presume that in this context there is a good chance that whether "heresy or faction" they have a strong likelihood of going together.
"argumentative spirit has no place in God’s Church"
Neither does Ron Whine-Land.
"have you ever asked yourself what motivated Dennis in his war against readers belief in God and the bible?"
The absurdity of the bible, no doubt.
The word translated faction is literally heresy. It's translated as sect in Acts 15, in the KJV when talking about the Pharisee party. In the Catholic DR version, it's transliterated as heresy. Heresy is always used in the New Testament and church history in a negative way. Gal. 5:19-21 is the best example, for it shows it as a work of the flesh just like other sins are. Titus 3:10-11 also shows heresy in an extremely negative light. Nope, factions are heresies. And when they organize as a stand alone religion, they eventually splinter and self-destruct, because the other works of the flesh that go along with it contributes to the splintering and self-destruction.
The BIBLE is a JIGSAW PUZZLE and ALL of the PIECES MUST be PROPERLY PUT TOGETHER to GET a FULL UNDERSTANDING
History is a jigsaw puzzle and those who don't know pagan myths don't realize that many stories in the bible were copied from pagan myths. So they don't get the bible in the context of history, so they are deluded by their narrow perspective.
NO, the Bible is NOT a jigsaw puzzle. And, if you regard it as such, you will drive yourself crazy trying to make all of the pieces fit! The truth is that the Bible is a diverse collection of writings - written over a thousand-year period by a diverse collection of personalities. Much of the confusion, heretical ideas and schisms which have developed over its contents are a consequence of notions like Fundamentalism, Literalism and the good old Jigsaw Puzzle.
Ignorance of how the canon was written and came together has contributed to the formulation of these erroneous ideas. Moreover, the failure to understand that Scripture was always a joint project - a cooperative effort between God and humans. Likewise, there is another false notion floating around out there that has contributed to this Bible idolatry - that Divine inspiration makes one infallible and/or their writings inerrant. News flash, the Holy Spirit does NOT control - it guides, nudges, pushes, pulls, or gently leads in a certain direction. As part of that free will thingy, humans can and do sometimes (often) resist and thwart its guidance!
As for Dennis Diehl, I agree with NEO. I miss his contributions to this forum. I admired his intellectual curiosity and compassion for others, but I also appreciated the fact that he understood that the Bible isn't a jigsaw puzzle. He saw the flaws inherent in these false notions about the Bible. He understood that the Bible isn't a history or science text. Sure, I believe he went too far in the other direction by rejecting Scripture altogether. Even so, there are a whole lot of Armstrongists who have fallen into the same trap of regarding Scripture as an either/or proposition (the great FALSE DILEMMA - you must accept or reject it in toto).
If you love metaphors and analogies, think of Scripture as a great museum of art. A collection of various works of art produced by many different artists over a great span of time. Most of us are able to discern inspiration in all of them and/or can at least be touched by the messages of some of them. And the really neat thing is that we all get to interpret what each one of them means to us, often irrespective of the original artist's intent! Each one of those paintings, sculptures, etc. speaks to each one of us. It is a SPIRITUAL experience, not a cold process of trying to make all of them fit into one pattern - that everyone can agree upon. After all, an art museum is uniquely HUMAN - it's NOT for robots and zombies!
continued from above. for a Catholic who has taken the time to learn what the actual teachings of the Church are simply won't listen to them, but will follow the instructions given by Paul in Titus 3:9-10 and Rom.16:17-18.
Earl, thanks for showing some common sense.
Jesus brought the uplifting news of the approaching Kingdom of God.
https://memegenerator.net/instance/73196139/dawsons-creek-people-on-the-internet-are-being-mean-to-me
12:48 "Jesus brought the uplifting news of the approaching Kingdom of God."
Positive proof that Armstrognism has no idea about Jesus Christ or anything he accomplished.
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