From an LCG source:
God is severely handicapped by Satan and cannot do much good during this age. But once Satan is out of the way then God can get something done.
The Importance of Truth: Jesus said, “You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” (John 8:32). Yet, today, we face a global plague of misinformation, fake news, and conspiracy theories that generate confusion and mistrust of the media, governments, individuals, and major institutions. The Bible reveals that Satan is the god of this world (2 Corinthians 4:4), that he is a liar (John 8:44), and the real author of the confusion we see around us (1 Corinthians 14:33). The ancient prophets foretold the time would come when truth would perish (Isaiah 59:4, 14–15; Jeremiah 7:28; 9:3–5) and be suppressed (Romans 1:18). However, when Jesus Christ returns, His capital in Jerusalem will be known as “the City of Truth” (Zechariah 8:1–3) and the liberating truth of His law (Psalm 119:142) will be spread around the world (Isaiah 2:2–4; 11:9) by His servants He is calling today (1 John 3:19). This is your exciting future—if you prove and hold fast the Truth (1 Thessalonians 5:21)!
Have a profitable Sabbath, Douglas S. Winnail
Satan has always been the most powerful god of the Church of God.
19 comments:
Satan is their god.
In all fairness to Winnail, Im sure he believes that Jesus is more powerful than Satan.
However, it is true , as he quoted scripture, that the Kingdom of God is not yet here, and that Satan has much dominion in the current age, and he is obviously not bound for eternity.
Doug Winnail wrote: "The Importance of Truth: Jesus said, “You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” (John 8:32). Yet, today, we face a global plague of misinformation, fake news, and conspiracy theories that generate confusion and mistrust of the media, governments, individuals, and major institutions. The Bible reveals that Satan is the god of this world ... This is your exciting future—if you prove and hold fast the Truth.
******
Oh, and if you don't or can't prove and hold fast the Truth, Truth as Doug sees it? Would such a person be snared, held captive, by the devil?
"And [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will." 2 Tim 2:26
For example:
Is the Living group's, former WCG hireling, Doug's teaching about a very soon to return Jesus to reign on earth for 1,000 years "the Truth" or is Doug facing another "global plague of misinformation, fake news, and conspiracy theories that generate confusion and mistrust?"
How many more years need to pass before Doug realizes he may have been snared by the devil and held captive by him at his will? Why can't Doug see the other fingers of his own hand pointing back at himSELF?
For example:
Is the Living group's, former WCG hireling, Doug's teaching about a Jesus, and not God the Father, is the God of the Old Testament "the Truth" or is Doug facing another "global plague of misinformation, fake news, and conspiracy theories that generate confusion and mistrust?"
Again, is it possible that Doug may been snared by the devil and held captive by him at his will? Acts 3:13 surely hints: Yes!
"THE GOD of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, THE GOD of our fathers, hath glorified HIS Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let [him] go."
Another example:
Is the Living group's, former WCG hireling, Doug's teaching about one needing to meet various requirements/prerequisites in order to qualify for salvation, in lieu of God's grace and the sacrifice of Jesus Christ our Passover sacrificed for us, "the Truth" or is Doug facing another "global plague of misinformation, fake news, and conspiracy theories that generate confusion and mistrust?"
Time will tell...
John
What caught my eye is Doug's "..servants He is calling today."
We all know that ACOG ministers are not servants but masters. They behave like banana republic dictators in their congregations. It's only in social systems like communism and Nazism where their ideology clashes with reality, that a police state is necessary.
One example of Doug's "truth." He often advices his readers to "ignore slights and insults," "a soft answer turns away wrath." "don't let the sun go down on your wrath," "be forgiving," blah, blah blah. This is Doug grooming his members to accept abuse. Many of his tithe payers are addicted to using others as punching bags, so Doug protects them with his mis application of scripture.
How about giving his members a different mental diet such as:
"You have a right to be treated with dignity and respect."
"You have a right to be free from abuse."
Or telling his members of abuse that they need to have the attitude of "I deserve better."
Yes, I'm day dreaming here, but it's the way it should be.
Dangerous Doug Winnail promotes Satan to a hire level of power than Satan has.
To keep people loyal to LCG, Doug wants his people to be afraid of Satan snatching them away from the COG version of the truth.
Doug's theology encompasses the need for people to battle Satan while producing enough works of the law for them to earn their salvation.
In Doug's theology, Satan can win the battle and/or people can fail to do enough works of the law to be saved.
Contrary to Holy Scripture, Doug rejects Jesus as having the power of current/eternal security and salvation.
Contrary to Holy Scripture, Doug refuses to preach Jesus as a victorious King ruling a current Kingdom that can be enjoyed now.
Yes, Satan is a problem now - but the antidote for that problem is the Jesus who Doug does not preach.
Colossians 1:13 – He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son.
1 Corinthians 15:57 - thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
There is another entirely different attitude which I've picked up on from mainstream Christianity. That is the reality that God is so much more powerful than Satan that He takes what Satan does, turns it around, and uses it fo fulfill His purpose.
All I've ever gotten from Armstrong theology is the blame game. When circumstances seem to go against or counter Armstrongism, they mournfully, and with great wringing of hands, blame Satan, only without invoking the proviso that God will take whatever they are accusing Satan of having done (let's face it, most of this is just the proverbial shit happening, and not Satan) and use it to His own advantage in fulfilling His purpose. They give Satan credit instead of waiting for the final outcome and then praising God! You'd almost wonder if they truly believe that they are God's church, wouldn't you?
Some good points... my favourite is their continual teaching on "being teachable" or humility. Both good things to have for sure, but in COG-context, it is conditioning for spiritual abuse.
Hello Tonto: You wrote, "... as he quoted scripture, that the Kingdom of God is not yet here ..."
I did not notice the Scripture Doug quoted to say the Kingdom of God is not here yet.
However, there many passages that depict the yet future coming of the kingdom, in its full glory.
What the COGs fail to teach are the verses that explain that the Kingdom, starting like a mustard seed, came when Jesus was in the midst of humanity and continues today.
I encourage you to read beyond what you may have learned in your former WCG days.
Some Christians frame the Kingdom as present yet future; fulfilled but not consummated.
Contrary to what the COGs say about those they label as "Christians, falsely so called" - Christians do strive to seek the kingdom first - both the present and future Kingdom.
We do stumble and suffer when we fail to seek the present Kingdom.
You can find verses that depict the fact that the King has come and dwells within us.
The King has conquered sin an death - though they still exist - until the final battle.
Therefore, the King's victory over Satan is also our victory.
Currently, the King sits at God's right hand and reigns.
Currently, the King's righteousness is ours by justification.
Currently, the King's Spirit is dwelling in us.
Currently, the King's joy and peace are available to his people.
While we wait for the Kingdom to come in all the unimaginable glory God has planned, we should also focus on and enjoy the current aspects of the Kingdom.
The fact that the COGs preach Satan as the current king and reject Jesus as the current, victorious King, makes their theology dangerous, and makes the lives of their people dreary, scary, anxious, and precarious.
Enjoying the King and his current Kingdom is a lovely Sabbath meditation and an inspirational Sabbath Bible study - I hope you do have a profitable Sabbath, Tonto!
LCG is severely handicapped!!
The fact is, Armstrongism has never worked out a serious theodicy. When I first began attending the WCG they were thoroughgoing Deuteronomists. They believed in a transactional relationship with God. It went this way: Obedience to God produces blessing and disobedience produces cursing. I remember when that began to change. It changed principally because of a new reading of the Book of Job. I remember the sermon in the Field House at Big Sandy but I can't remember who or when. But it never produced any formal theological position that I know of.
(Sidebar: Orthodox Armstrongist history asserts that the Gospel/Church was underground for 18 and a half centuries and was rediscovered by an advertising salesman in Iowa. And this at the inspiration of God. One must then ask if this true "Christianity" came suddenly on the scene after centuries of suppression, why did and does the package have so many loose ends? One loose end is that Armstrongism still does not have a comprehensive theodicy. "Theodicy" does not even exist as a viable topic or term in their booklet-based, ad hoc theology.)
Nobody can create and mature a theodicy for them. They need to do it themselves because it will challenge some of their unique dogmata and only they can do the consequential broad scope revision. They can start with the idea that the Book of Job is a clear statement that the Deuteronomic approach does not resolve the issue of evil. They also need to address the issue of Thrones, Principalities and Powers still being in operation. Christ defeated them but did not depose them. Also, if anybody at all ends up in hell, does that mean Christ was defeated as Saviour? And they need to document it all and appropriately title it. You know - be a church.
These questions and many others are non-trivial. Blaming the Dark Side from the pulpit when it is convenient is not a theodicy but is an artful dodge.
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You are correct, 11:46, and that is because the humility was expected of members as part of the package of qualities known as a good attitude, or the right attitude. HWA might have been humble while interacting with the world leaders and dignitaries with which he hobnobbed, but was anything but as he led those whom he called his "dumb sheep". He was a growling tyrant, with severe anger issues, who often admiringly told a story about der fuhrer's temper when describing Hitler's leadership style. HWA's constant invoking of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram was not much different from Donald Trump's celebrated admiration for totalitarian dictators such as Putin and Un, who have the authority to simply kill those who disagree with him. The mini-Herbs of today, such as Gerald Flurry and David Pack are feared today as being the guys who can take your salvation away if you disagree with them.
Addendum:
Someone may ask, What's wrong with a "booklet-based theology? It is decentralized, unintegrated and uncomprehensive. Tracking what it means and making judicious revisions is nearly impossible. It leaves the denomination open to schism as the only method of revision and makes the uncured theology subject to such criticisms as this particular post levels.
HWA cancelled the Systematic Theology Project, and this has become an act of legendary heroism among the naive. The fact is, HWA was a Systematic Theology Project himself. He is the one who lent integration to the many diverse little booklets and authors. He was the unilateral quality assurance process. Armstrongism was what he said it was on any given day. That is why it is called Armstrongism. So, there was an STP - it was just in the person of HWA. The committee based STP that he cancelled was not different in category but different only in implementation details. And when he died, without a formal denominational STP, Armstrongism lost its only credentialed sustainer and was left to founder.
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We must keep up the pressure exposing Armstrongism; this is not the time to let up; people are leaving these unhealthy cults every day - right now as we speak many major splinter cults are falling below critical-mass - sub-1000 membership - which accelerates their collapse!
How'd you know Anonymous 9:41.
Anon 10:51:00 AM PST
Would be nice to know the actual membership numbers of LCoG,PCoG, UCoG etc etc.
That we don’t know and the numbers are not readily available is telling.
I have no doubt the numbers are small and are declining. I remember back in the day when WWCoG was around 154000.I think that figure was correct.
Hi Neo,
It seems to me that perhaps HWA realised the bind that a documented STP would place him in. He would no longer have the flexibility to "bind and loose" at will- it would lock him in to a fixed theology.
ANON 4:21
I agree with your statements. we ARE, (present tense) , Kings and Priests says 1Peter 2:9.
This has a lot of impact on us now, certainly, and we are citizens of the Kingdom now, indeed.
I am not a king or priest, and frankly don't want to be. Blame that on a lifetime of watching people in charge who really suck. To hell with them. However, I do exercise dominion, to the benefit of others, applying my talents
Trooisto, Saturday, March 12, 2022 at 4:21:00 AM PST, said:
"...Hello Tonto: You wrote, "... as he quoted scripture, that the Kingdom of God is not yet here ..."
I did not notice the Scripture Doug quoted to say the Kingdom of God is not here yet.
However, there many passages that depict the yet future coming of the kingdom, in its full glory.
******
Trooisto, full glory?
Jesus did request His disciples pray: "Thy Kingdom come," b/c it was at a future time.
Full glory? Yes, but after Jesus Christ was murdered, and in the earth for 3 days and 3 nights He was resurrected. Some time after that, and as foretold by the Wave Sheaf offering, Jesus then visited His Father in Heaven, returning the very same day with His, Biblically-speaking, second coming to earth; however, He only hung around for about 40 days, speaking of things pertaining to the future Kingdom of God, before departing in clouds to return to Heaven to be at the Father's right hand.
"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:" Matthew 25:31
That coming in glory is not fulfilled at Jesus Christ's next coming, but it will occur after 1,000 years, after Satan is loosed from the pit, after the Vials/Plagues occur, after Satan is killed (Although so many were taught and still believe spirit can't cease existence), so that His coming in glory is definitely still future.
What would then happen? And again, this is after a period of 1,000 years, plus after a little/short season/space.
"And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:" Matthew 25:32
Sheep always represents people; goats represent Satan and his angels: brute beasts MADE to be destroyed...yet, later. God, who only has immortality and gives it to whomsoever He will, and He has planned eventually to keep His word and destroy them once His purpose for them is completed.
Incidentally, those who pierced Jesus will also see that glory:
"Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen." Rev 1:7
And that timing is for some time beyond the 1,000 years, way beyond a first resurrection, and actually just after the second resurrection occurs; there is no need for any third resurrection (another Mickey Mouse thingy).
And while we are covering this, what about the time before Jesus Christ returns in glory? That would include the 1,000 years. What happens? Read the verse in context before the one showing Jesus Christ returning in glory:
"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Matthew 25:30
Will it one day be understood and believed that the unprofitable servant, reading in context, represented Satan and his angels in the "bottomless pit" for 1,000 years?
Time will tell...
John
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