It is always fascinating to watch Churches of God in 2023 talk about unity. Every single one of them are apostate churches of the mother church, the Worldwide Church of God. All were created in acts of rebellion and division. They brag about submitting to church government, yet they were united in their defiance and rebellion against the mother church that taught them that government.
Living Church of God is back berating its members about how important unity is. Keep in mind, this is the same church led by Rod Meredith, one of the most rebellious and cantankerous leaders the church had in decades. Even Herbert Armstrong had to exile him to Hawaii to cool off and examine himself for the slightest thread of humility he might have had. Then he ran off at the mouth smearing Leona McNair when she was divorcing Rod's buddy, Ray McNair (aka Buffy). That lawsuit dragged on for several years costing the church millions of dollars in legal fees, which Rod happily let them pay, all due to his stupidity.
Then, once the Worldwide Church of God lost the case and had to pay Leona substantial damages, ol'Rod and a small group of angry church members who had been plotting behind the scenes along with Buffy McNait to start a new church, officially started Global Church of God. Even in his new church, Rod got his tail feathers all in a snit and bitch-slapped Ray McNair by taking all of Global's money and members away from him so he could start yet ANOTHER splinter group where he and he alone was in charge. Unity was never an issue for Rod or any of the ministers who kept jumping ship with him. Their concern was never about the members but their own salaries and positions of power.
Despite all of that, LCG demands that their members be unified today.
Importance of Unity: David wrote, “how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity” (Psalm 133:1). Jesus said, “I and My Father are one” (John 10:30), and He prayed for His disciples, “that they may be one as We are” (John 17:11). The Scriptures reveal that the disciples had different personalities and perspectives (Acts 15:36–41; Galatians 2:11–21), but they learned to work together as a coordinated team to achieve their mission (2 Peter 3:14–18). They realized that if they each marched to their own drum, the Church would be divided and they would not fulfill their mission. They also learned that Satan is the author of division and confusion and that his goal is to divide and destroy the Church of God (John 13:21–27; 1 Corinthians 14:33). If we are led by the same Spirit, we will see divisions diminish and we will maintain the unity needed to complete our mission (Ephesians 4:4–16). This is the challenge that real Christians face in Satan’s divided world.
Have a profitable Sabbath,
Douglas S. Winnail
They were not pleased to dwell together in unity with former brethren, but expect their followers to be unified now.
They were not "one" back then and are not now with any other group. Unity is NOT a priority.
LCG has NEVER worked together with anyone or any Church of God as a coordinated team of believers who are all working together on a mission.
Instead, LCG has always marched to its own drum, dividing members from other family members and other Church of God's.
Their father Satan, has taught them well on how to cause division.
Their inability or desire to actually follow Jesus does not allow the Holy Spirit to lead them. They will continue to divide as the years go by until they are split into irrelevant little sects like Bob Thiel's rebellious splinter group.
Real Christians do not act like LCG leadership.
24 comments:
"They brag about submitting to church government, yet they were united in their defiance and rebellion against the mother church that taught them that government."
The church that Herbert built was not the one that many of them rebelled against. Some of them rebelled against the GCI rebels who had hijacked the mother church.
Excellent article and very true. They are a divisive bunch indeed and continue to quarrel and expell whomever they feel like it from THEIR man made false Church, which is in no way God's and they are in no way Godly nor do they know the true Jesus. They are full of hate and have high inflated egos of themselves and like to belittle and bully anyone whom they perceive as weak. They are also rich, selfish and self centered into their possessions. Funny how they refer to "worldly" people, lol š¤£ what do they think they are? They are very much into secular things of this world and not the least but of God's soon coming better world. They preach a false gospel anyways and deceive many to hell so sad really. Today is the day of salvation.
Problem with too much centralized thinking and "unity" is that new ideas and necessary "creative destruction" never occur and any organization , including virtually all of the COGS end up irrelevant, stagnant and unrelatable.
Centralized communist economic models squelch free thinking and ALWAYS end up as failures.
I thought they rebelled against World Wide and then Global Church of God?
I saw a minister vehemently yell at a member just for attending in another location within this same church organization.
Hopefully they can find unity and peace (they'll need it). I wish them well.
The (barely) Living Church of Rod was founded by the now dead Roderick C. Meredith, who had “a will to lead, but not the qualifications” according to HWA when he exiled Rod to Hawaii for a number of months.
The new nonsense teachings that Rod and his guys came up with (such as the two-fold gospel, marriage supper in heaven, and falling away in the world) to try to put their own doctrinal stamp on their own religion business show that HWA was right.
There is one quality which could serve the purpose of uniting, but it simply cannot exist in Armstrongism. That quality is intellectual honesty! As a group, they are so committed to the end justifying the means, and government from the top down, that they will do anything to further their cause. Intellectual honesty is constantly suppressed, and that's the way they like it!
The COGs know little about unity because they were founded on and trained in separation, distinctions, and disunity from Christian churches that didn't accept Armstrong's teaching. The WCG and cogs learned to lower all who disagrees with them to the lowest common denominator.
Growing up in wcg those that were ever affiliated with wcg and that disagreed with almost anything taught and asserted by Herbert Armstrong were said to have a spirit of rebellion or a demon or some such. Great serving Christians outside the WCG were Godless and working up false emotions in themselves (often due to bad spirits) or doing it to build their egos. This is not exaggeration as most here know.
The splits from WCG in the '90's went as far as different people being called possessed and some identified as the man of sin or the Beast.
The splits among the splinters always were projected as a righteous group and a corrupted group. The Cogwa/UCG split was just the same. Listening to both groups, I heard very ugly things said by ministers about ministers on either "wrong" side.
It struck me that the members were trained that to criticize a minister is to basically criticize God because He chose them as a minister. But, when the COG factions start developing and the slightest agitation begins, ministers defamed other ministers and welcomed member contribution in defaming ministers and members from the "wrong" side.
Anyway, same ol' same ol'. And the members soon forget and treat the ministers as sacrosanct, until the next split...
In my area of UCG, there has been periodic preaching about unity of doctrine. We've been given warnings about the dangers of "having our own ideas", warned not to question church leadership, and not to talk about "other doctrines" even in private conversations.
It's asking for a surrender of personal thinking — leave that to the experts, namely the ministry who are the ones authorised to tell us what to do, say and think.
It's a push for conformity, which is a poor man's version of unity.
Good points 6:53. Give your mind over to no one except Yehovah and His Son.
It’s very hard to unify when an organization puts “gloom and doom end of the world” OVER being a good decent human being. When they put their prophetic interpretations over being a follower of Christ. It’s hard when the love of many wax cold.
Jesus began the gospel with Matthew 5., He didn’t begin with Matthew 24.
@ 8:09, have you ever read Ezekiel and Revelation? There’s doom and gloom often in scripture. There’s love, tears, blood, life, death … in scripture. Your point? It’s ALL a part of the story.
Doug Winnail frames Satan as the one who is seeking to divide and destroy the church.
However, instead of being an encouragement to the people and bringing them to God in thankfulness that no one can separate them from God’s love – Winnail’s ministry is devoted to indoctrinating the people with insecurity and fear that Satan can snatch them from God, divide them from God for eternity.
I hope that the people of LCG will ignore Winnail’s divisive ministry in favor of the encouragement found in Romans 8.
Romans 8:38-39
For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
8:19 Oh yes I forgot "ALL a part of the story" I forgot to mention, the opposite of unify. Separate! Because people separated from each other after WCG. Then there was gloom and doom. Tears?
Writes the one who knows.
'Every single one of them are apostate churches from the mother church....' writes NO2HWA.
Thanks for sharing that insight, that tiny glimpse into your mind. For it reveals your true agenda.
I won't forget. Ever.
5:17 said:
“ Thanks for sharing that insight, that tiny glimpse into your mind. For it reveals your true agenda.
I won't forget. Ever.”
Glad I could help! Let me know if you need any more!
Global, United, Living, Philadelphia, International, Enduring, 21st Century Restored,.....Unrestored, as this is the evidence of division not unity. I wish I were wrong but this is what happened. Maybe one day the leaders can put their divisions aside.
Try Jeremiah. Probably the gloomiest. He comes off as a seriously depressed writer.
Doug wrote:
"...‘Blessings of Unity: David wrote, “how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity” (Psalm 133:1). Jesus said, “I and My Father are one” (John 10:30), and He prayed for His disciples, “that they may be one as We are” (John 17:11). The Scriptures reveal that the disciples had different personal perspectives (Acts 2; Galatians 2), but they learned to work together as a coordinated team to achieve their mission (2 Peter 3:14-16). They obviously realized that if each marched to his own drum, the job they were given would not get done. This is why the Apostle Paul stated that as we do the Work of God we need to be respectful and patient with each other, “endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace” (Ephesians 4:1-3). Paul also emphasized there is “one body and one Spirit… one Lord, one faith, one baptism” and the work of the ministry involves fostering the unity of the faith and not being split apart by different ideas about methods or doctrine (Ephesians 4:4-16). As we are led by the same Spirit, we will see divisions diminish and we will be more “perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment” (1 Corinthians 1:10). Peace, harmony and unity in the Church of God will become visible fruits when we are led by God’s Spirit.’..."
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That was 20 Dec 2012, 21 years ago! And it sounds like Fear Religion! What happened to the God who claims to distribute by measure/proportion (Romans 12:3, 6) His fruits of the Spirit, like peace, love, and....yes, faith?
What's been happening? Why don't those of the Living group "get the point" by now?
What else does Doug need to do? Spin some wooden nickels? Tell the group that Jesus will be here to reign on earth "very soon," in 3-5 years, so that the MMMillennium will finally be a reality?
When may Doug learn to scrap some of his unfounded theories and stop telling his peeps to live up to his standards, his requirements, his prerequisites the way he is doing it, but Doug can't tell us how he is doing it. So much for another Jesus, another spirit and another gospel from Doug et al. Perhaps the Living group could do what United Ass. and cogwAss. do? What's that?
Vote in another leader, like was done in the case of Moses, Joshua, etc.? Because perhaps God never gave any of these groups a leader after all, hence after all this confusion and lack of unity still exists to this day from the day they abandoned the former WCG and its sheep as careless fleeing hirelings (John 10:12-13)...like wolves with tails between their legs, but what? Another eleven years? Satan's been among God's Church for some 2,000 years now (Read Rev 2-3) and no gate will prevail against it, but...
Time will tell...
John
To 7:51 Try Jeremiah??? See that’s the problem with you guys. You try to equate the prophets and apostles with these so-called leaders in these COGs.
So let’s get the context of Jeremiah of why he might sound so gloomy:
1st: Jeremiah is very young (Jeremiah 1:7), like most of the people who the Lord calls like David, Daniel and so forth (unlike the the ideologies of armstrongism).
2nd: Jeremiah wasn’t allowed to take a wife and marry from his own kindred. (Jeremiah 16:1-2).
3rd, Jeremiah is put in prison for doing nothing wrong. Only to be rescued by the Ethiopian man (Jeremiah 32). Do the GOG leaders go to jail for preaching the truth?
4th: Jeremiah Jeremiah was taken against his will to Egypt by some of the exiled Jews, while they didn’t listen to him to remain in Judah. (Jeremiah 43).
This is just the surface, but the context of the man’s life can help understand the pessimism. Again, I’ll state this. So when considering “prophecy”, Do any of the COG leaders:
Have the 3rd heaven correspondence in direct contact with the Lord or an angel like Jeremiah, the prophets or the apostles?
Have visions or dreams like the prophets or apostles. Or make correct interpretations to what has been written like Daniel did with the 70 years from what Jeremiah recorded (Daniel 9:2). But make false dreams according to their own heart like 1975 or continuous statements like “in the next five to ten years” (Jeremiah 23:32).
Have unjust imprisonments or captivity like the prophets or apostles. Are they thrown in jail for boldly preaching the truth? Or are they afraid to address the civil (governmental) leaders about the truth (Jer. 9:2). Or do they not want to get kicked off of this particular television station?
Most importantly, are they humble like Jeremiah “the weeping prophet”? Are they humble people to weep for the sins of their nation (Jeremiah 44:10) ? They didn’t even weep for the sins of jim crow segregation (James 2:8-9), even within their own organization. They embraced colonialism and slavery. The prerequisite is to be beloved by God or humbled. The two witnesses at the end are clothed in sackcloth just as the prophets of old.
I have heard so many bad things about LCG over the years, I am so glad that I never attended with them, but did do so with a number of other COGs. None of them perfect, but at least not as bad as LCG.
It was Rod Meredith himself who put me off from attending LCG, he was a liar and a power-hungry dictator who set up Global against what he himself had earlier said, then set up Living due to his quest for absolute power.
Some LCG members idolised him, some left and went to other churches, while I suppose some are still asleep.
Some of the people in United refused to join Living due to being taught By Rod Meredith at Ambassador College years ago. They probably didn't like his style. None of us are perfect. Hopefully they are improving as a group, and individually hopefully we all improve to be better human beings.
Many in Living were shocked at the passing of John Ogwyn, who was an exceptional minister.
Anonymous, Saturday, November 4, 2023 at 11:37:00 AM PDT, wrote:
"...Some of the people in United refused to join Living due to being taught By Rod Meredith at Ambassador College years ago. They probably didn't like his style..."
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I personally know of one former WCG AC graduate, and subsequently made WCG hireling, who said he would have nothing to do with Rod Meredith, because of his experience in college under the Rod: Rod Meredith. He attended the 1995 Indianapolis Conference to participate in the voting process to establish the United Ass. and its leadership.
So, this individual scattered from the former WCG and its sheep to flee to the newly-established United Ass., but for how long?
Well, until the cogwAss. was established! He then abandoned the United sheep he pastored to flee to cogwAss.
So much for all of those hirelings of the former WCG, who taught those they pastored to: "Hang in there; do not abandon God's Church; have faith in God; God will work it all out!"
Following is the memo sent to Victor Kubik by a minister and it was read by Vic Kubik on May 2, 1995, the last day of the Indianapolis Conference, to all attending:
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CAN IT EVER BE? That cohesive, Christ-led entity that we all want so dearly? Or does Indy seal our fate to factions and factions? The hopes are high, the stakes are critical. Indy will be either a dawning of a New World Tomorrow, or the proof of our folly.
PIE IN THE SKY is what the detractors say. Some of them are us, you know. Our “leaders” have already laid foundations and are even laying superstructure. The meek words of just a few weeks ago… “We’ve just started this in case it’s of any help, but we’ll gladly dissolve it” are seemingly replaced with corporate structure lauding the wisdom of “follow me.” Has “unity” already slipped to a clichĆ©, a buzzword of egotists? I’ve seen that once people invest time, money and gain supporters they “have God’s blessing.” After all, they prayed about it.
Dissolution of their structure for a greater cause becomes too great a defeat. The show must go on.
WHAT IS INDY? It’s a chance for a ground up, New Testament organized body of believers.
WHAT WILL INDY BE? I know what you and I want it to be. But do you know what many see it as? Separate leaders of several pre-formed groups pushing their system at each other, followed by the winner selling it to the ministry. The ministry is invited to view the outcome and cast in their lot, depending on who "wins" and if they like the smell of it.
WHO LOOSES IF INDY FALTERS? The churches back home. The little flocks who are staking their faith in Indy. The loyal pastors who have forfeited everything to wait on Christ and to come learn his will for their next step. I hope He’s there. He resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.
Just some concerns and fears…I don’t know what it WILL be, I know what it MIGHT be and what it CAN be. I’ll be there in support. Be careful who gets control. Make sure it’s God.
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So, for how long will this individual mentioned above, who attended that conference with his then wife, remain with cogwAss.? Did the former WCG hireling who wrote that memo remain with the United Ass. and continue to support, or did he also again scatter to some faction. I wonder if that individual thinks of himself as a possible prophet, but nothing like that of a Bob Thiel, or a Dave Pack...Winnail...Franks...even Kubik...(pick a name)?
Time will tell...
John
Good points John.
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