When the so-called great apostasy and implosion of the mother church, the Worldwide Church of God, happened in the mid-1990s, everyone was hoping that the church would start fresh and do things differently. Alas, that thought quickly faded into oblivion as hundreds of splinter groups continued on with the same old, worn out, and poorly researched literature and with the same appalling abuse that the mother church practiced for decades. Almost all of the splinter groups were set up by self-important men who thought they were God's gift to the church, though not a single one has ever proven to be so.
Here we are in 2025 and not a single Church of God group has ever come up with anything original. Almost all plagiarized or rewrote Herbert Armstrong's literature to make it look like they said it. The biggest abuser of this mentality is the Great Bwana Bob Mzungu Thiel and his apostate '"continuing" Church of "god'. Even he knows he blabs too much about Herbert in his articles. Felling guilty and tired of being called on the carpet for his blatant overuse, the Great Bwana had this to say the other day.
The Great Bwana starts off by making excuses for the flaws of Herbert:
Received the following in an email:
Herbert Armstrong. I notice you quote him a lot at COGwriter.com Sometimes i wonder why COG people do this? I ask this because i have noticed as i try to share the truths of God with people online anytime someone connects a COG to WWCOG, they will bring up how the WWCOG and Armstrong had false prophesied multiple times.
Let me add that I also quote from government officials, mainstream news sources, etc. and do not agree with all they say.
That said, there are several reasons that Herbert W. Armstrong or materials from the old Radio/Worldwide Church of God, of which he was Pastor General, are cited here.
But first, consider that all humans are flawed:
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, (Romans 3:23)
Given the certain peccadillos of Herbert and many in the ministry, including the grievous sinners leading the various groups of Thielism in Africa, the Great Bwana has to make excuses to cover up the sins of Herb and in his own ministry. The David Defense has long been practiced in the Churches of God to cover up the appalling abuses of the leadership and ministry.
The Bible makes that clear and even mentions serious sins that some of God’s servants have had (such as King David’s adultery & murdering, plus a wrong prediction by the Apostle Paul come to mind).
As far as false prophecies go, Herbert W. Armstrong had misunderstandings related to WWII and sometimes pointed to dates that he should not have–and we do not attempt to defend his errors. To his credit, however, he asserted that he was not a prophet. And as far as the internet goes, I have addressed many of the accusations against him in article titled: 17 Accusations and Truthful Responses About Herbert W. Armstrong. Plus also in another article titled: What is Armstrongism? Are Some Dismissive of Original Christianity?
People can choose to believe the truth or lies.
The Great Bwana also says this:
The Continuing [sic] Church of God believes that we best represent the continuation of the Philadelphian part of the Church of God. Herbert W. Armstrong is one in the list of successors we trace our history through.
So, Herbert W. Armstrong and other Radio/Worldwide COG writers are quoted to show that we continued the basic teachings that were held in the Philadelphian era of the Church. Plus, we also do this to show that much of what we teach was taught by an earlier COG (which is also why we quote early 2nd century COG writers, like Polycarp of Smyrna). Many people, including those with a COG background, often do not realize what was taught on various matters–hence quoting those sources helps demonstrate that we in the CCOG are continuing with those teachings.
We have also restored more details and truth as would be expected in these last days.
Well, we all know that this is NOT true! Justified lying is another thing the COG was good at.
The Great BWana then talks about his apsotolic succession:
We strive not to teach error and do not teach that what Herbert W. Armstrong wrote is not subject to correction. The Bible, not Herbert W. Armstrong, is the standard that we go by.
Despite organization changes, successively and doctrinally we are NOT a new church. We teach Laying on of Hands succession from the apostles. We clearly trace our history from the Book of Acts to present.
The Great Bwana's "succession" is thought the Baptist church and not some mythical Church of God lineage.
The Great Bwana Bob then weasels his way out of being held accountable for the unadulterated crap he says and his failed prophecies.
And I will take it one step further. Irrespective of how any may view the role that God has for me, unless I am directly quoting the Bible, or preface a statement to something of the effect of “thus saith the Lord,” I am NOT necessarily stating anything that is not subject to later correction. We who are truly part of the Church of God only accept as inspired the 39 books of the Old Testament and the 27 books of the New Testament and no other document. Therefore, although other current and historical documents/articles/books/booklet/posts by various Church of God leaders throughout history often have value, as they generally also tend to contain personal opinion, we do not consider that any of them are on the same level as sacred scripture, and hence believe that they can contain error.
Many do not understand true, original Christianity, so they bash/misrepresent Herbert W. Armstrong and/or teachings that he had.
In the CCOG we have never taught that Herbert W. Armstrong nor any COG leader was the standard, the truth in the word of God is.
Herbert W. Armstrong changed his position on various matters and never claimed infallibility. Nor do we.
But, as a continuation of the true apostolic Church of God, we in the Continuing [sic] Church of God believe it is helpful to quote recent, as well as ancient, COG writers for their perspective and insight, as well as to show continuity.
All who profess Christ should, “contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints” (Jude 3).
8 comments:
Sure, "we have all sinned..blah, blah, blah". Herb lied non stop from the 1930's onward that the end is 3 - 4 years away. That's deliberate deception rather than some misunderstanding as Bob claims. The victims of such lies have always been swept under the carpet and intimidated into silence. Herb served an apprenticeship in the COG7 for 11 years, and followed their culture rather than Scriptures and Christ. Which is why the televangelist TV programs are so similar to ACOG-World. Tyranny and the non existence of rights is the norm in all these groups. Armstrongism is just another blend of truth and (deliberate) error as is common in the world.
What was "the wrong prediction by the apostle Paul"?
HWA: "To his credit, however, he asserted that he was not a prophet." - Good advice for Bob to follow.
One comment stated that: "...The Great Bwana also says this:...We have also restored more details and truth as would be expected in these last days...."
******
What is one example of those details/truth?
Did Bob Thiel restore the fact that Jesus Christ, after His death, burial, resurrection, visiting His God/Father in Heaven had a "second coming" to earth that lasted for a period of about 40 days, before again departing from earth in some cloud to go ve at His Father's right hand, while knowing He would have a third coming at some future date?
Did Bob Thiel restore the fact that Jesus Christ is/was not the God of the Old Testament (OT), but that that God of the OT was His God/Father (John 3:13; Acts 5:30; Acts 22:14).
Well, Bob Thiel concluded with writing: "...All who profess Christ should, "contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints" (Jude 3)"
Jude had in mind saints such as those who were part of: "the prophets, apostles and Jesus Christ the chief cornerstone."
That faith WAS delivered.
Jude didn't have in mind: "...contend earnestly for the faith which WILL BE once for all delivered to HWA..."
When will Bob Thiel restore the fact that if HWA were magically made alive today he would most likely tell us what he learned from The prophets, The apostles and Jesus Christ, and that we might do similarly if we "blew the dust off of our Bibles?"
Of course, HWA also said: "Don't believe me; believe your Bibles," but it appears He found it difficullt taking his own advice.
When will Bob Thiel get his mind off of himSELF and boast saying: "Don't believe me; believe your Bibles?"
Time will tell...
John
HWA acted like a prophet with 1975 and his 'the end is a always a few years away,'. but that's OK to some since he asserted he was not a prophet. Ignore his behavior and just look at his nice words.
Many times I heard HWA called "The Chosen Apostle" from the pulpit. Herb didn't put himself above fancy titles and undue influence. And many members loved him for this since they were mini-me versions of him.
Herbert Armstrong and Adolf Hitler, both born around 1890; both high school dropouts; both will ruin your life in five minutes!
''..misunderstandings related to WWII and sometimes pointed to dates that he should not have–and we do not attempt to defend his errors. To his credit, however, he asserted that he was not a prophet''.
The 'I am not a prophet' claim is a tired old excuse and Thiel's article puts a big gloss over things.
This same pathetic argument is used all the time by Jehovah Witnesses concerning their previous leaders prophetic/forecasting/date setting failures.
Accepting he was not a prophet is something I am quite happy to do because a prophet is someone called by, appointed by, and supported by God to do a special mission.
However, not being a prophet does not excuse ,in any way at all, Armstrong's outright lies and manipulations over 50 years concerning events he claimed to be written in the Bible. Lies which extend to his claim to be a special ''messenger'' , carrying to the warning of impending disaster to the USA and UK.
''Messenger '' was a term he used many times so we must assess his messages .
It is dishonest of Thiel to imply there is but a limited range of errors because we know Armstrongs forecasting/prophetic interpretations/guesses began, as I noted, from the first issue (where he deliberately twisted scriptures in the book of Nahum to state the automobile had been predicted in the Bible), right through to the time of his passing.
It appears his 'not a prophet' scam began in early 1972, after some 40 years of having screamed out in capitals and bolds how he was warning of things soon to happen.
(It may interest to read - https://hwarmstrong.com/plain-truth-hwa.html - where I found the date of the 'not a prophet' invention, having failed to find it in the Armstrong searchable library. )
Interesting to note too that this messenger/leader/apostle/not a prophet or whatever other title one chooses , refused to apologize for all of the preceding 40 some years of outright lies of the things about to happen.
This refusal too used, if one bothers to look, capitals and exclamation marks as did all the previous lies themselves. Armstrong's prophetic/forecasting/warning message failures continued throughout his entire career.
As to the suggestion by Thiel that date setting was but few, I wish to record that his 'not a prophet' career set dates for the end of the age in his 1934 issues, and then fifty years later not far from his time on earth he again set a date for the end of this age. (See the January 1984 issue of the Good News magazine in which Armstrong wrote an article titled: ‘’What lies Ahead Now’’).
Thus, far from being an occasional lapse, we have this messenger/not a prophet setting firm dates that bookend his fifty year religious career, with other dates given and implied over that whole period.
That is to say, in between these bookends were a stream of demonstrable and futile failed predictions/forecasts/not prophecies.
Thiel needs to take a prayerful and cold hard look at himself when seeking to gloss over the actions of a person who was 'not a prophet'.
What I find intriguing is that once in a great while, I encounter someone who is a little bit off pace, and on a different wavelength, and initially, they put me off. The initial repulsiveness would normally cause me to dismiss them, and then it suddenly occurs to me that hey! This individual knows something that I need to know! They have some valuable information for me, I just don't know what it is yet. Now, I'm not talking about the obvious cons we discuss here on a regular basis, I'm talking about an innocent, someone who is relatively pure of heart, possibly even in spite of some bad life experiences from which they are recovering. It could be a person who has suffered greatly.
Let me illustrate. I'm thinking of a homeless lady who arrives at the public library with her shopping cart. Amongst her belongings are a number of stuffed animals. As she arrives at the computer work stations, she sets them up in a comforting array on the table. She smiles as she begins to surf the internet. There are people who obviously wish that she were not there, but she's oblivious to that. And, she's not high or drunk. She's content in her own little world, and existing on her own wavelength. Her brainwaves are just a bit atypical.
Or, how about an eccentric business owner whose performance standards, nobody can completely meet? Most people walk away, frustrated, not willing to go the extra mile for him. Again, an innocent. Kind, ethical. He simply needs the best from people, but most can't see past their billfolds. They never get to the level of the game at which they see the rewards he provides when someone does take him seriously.
How about the couple who you see hitchhiking out on the open road way out in the country. The woman is on crutches, her leg supported with Ace bandages. She got that way because they had to jump from the boxcar that had been their ride through several states. Didn't roll quickly enough. Work was waiting for them at the next big city. Their English is just good enough for basic communication.
These were some of my educators. There were others like them. And, they were not cons, or people who had bought into cons and scams. Got some nuggets from each of them. There will never be any usable nuggets from Bob Thiel, Dave Pack, Gerald Flurry, Ron Weinland, Jon Brisby, or so many of those from the Armstrong movement whom we take to task for the negative effects that follow them around. On the other hand, I'm so glad that Ian Boyne shared so much with us before he passed away. I disagreed with many of the beliefs he had retained, but he recognized so many of the problems from the past and attempted to correct them. Perhaps (in fact, not just "perhaps", I know this to be the case!) we were his offbeat people on a different wavelength who most people don't listen to, but he extracted from us some very useful nuggets. There was a man who recognized a two way street!
There is so much to be learned, and the nuggets often come from the least expected sources. Just have to be discerning is all!
BB
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