When I Wish Upon A Star...

Did you ever make a wish when you saw a falling star?  Seems innocent enough, right?  Well.........leave it to an Armstrongite to find something pagan or demonic about it.

We all heard a gazillion times over how those nasty angels of light rebelled against God and were cast out of heaven and down to earth. Yada, yada, yada.  So the logical conclusion for those trained in Armstrongism is to equate the falling stars streaking across the sky at night as fallen angels.  So when you make a wish on a falling star you are wishing on a fallen angel/demon to make it come true.  I kid you not!

Yahoo comment:

I was thinking of something not too long ago, and wondered if anyone else had thought of this.... you know how stars are sometimes used to represent angels in the Bible?  Then there are "fallen" stars...and I wondered about the phrase we used to recite about wishing on a falling star... does that have some pagan origin...or am I just tired and reading too much into it?!!

 I can just hear Dr. Bob Thiel right now:

"We in the TRUE Church of God KNOW that a third of the angels fell from heaven when  they rebelled against God.  We in the Living Church of God know that these fallen angels are now demons.  No true Christian would be allowing their children to make wishes  on stars, nor would adult true Christians do such a thing.  Regular readers here would know that we in the true Church of God know that wishes should actually be prayers and we are to direct our prayers to God alone.  We in the True Church of God do not pray to demons or ask them to influence God."

A "falling star" or a "shooting star" has nothing at all to do with a star! These amazing streaks of light you can sometimes see in the night sky are caused by tiny bits of dust and rock called meteoroids falling into the Earth's atmosphere and burning up. The short-lived trail of light the burning meteoroid produces is called a meteor. Meteors are commonly called falling stars or shooting stars. If any part of the meteoroid survives burning up and actually hits the Earth, that remaining bit is then called a meteorite.

Dennis on: The Evolution of the Religious Mind

Hearing the Voice of God

Reading the Voice of God

Questioning the Voice of God

 

The Evolution of the Religious Mind

 

 

It is easy to recoil at the amazingly cold and cruel stories we find in the Bible of the behaviors of men in the name of their God.  We see that most of it was done because these men were told to by "God."  They never saw God, or if they did it was from behind, or in a cloud or burning bush...but they did hear the voice in their head.

 

As a kid, I wondered what kind of father was this character called Abraham, who when told by the voice in his head to go offer his son up to the god in a human sacrifice, simply said, "oh, Ok."   There is no emotion expressed by this man. He has the mind of a zombie.

 

The Old Testament is like that. Many of the players, especially the people under the leadership figures in the Bible, simply do what they are told without any introspection or personal thinking.  As a result, we have men who sacrifice their daughters because they said whatever comes thru the door goes to the god.  We have armies hacking and wacking their way to glory hearing the voices in their head of the leaders urging them on by the voices in their heads too.  We have a Moses who gets pissed off when gone on a mission to pick up the Big Ten, one of which forbids murder, and then orders "each man to kill his neighbor. And in that day about 3000 died," no biggy.  No one seems to tell Moses, "what are you nuts?" They just do it. 

 

The prophets, both major and minor are god haunted by the voices of the god in their heads.  They conduct their entire lives obeying what others cannot hear and do not experience.  Their quirkiness, rather than seen as a mental illness or malfunction, is seen as a special calling and people fear them. And while often wrong in their prophecies, we forgive them and project it ahead a few more years to another time to cover up their errors. 

 

This is a huge topic but one I always wondered about. Why is the OT so violent and the stories full of examples of people doing things that would never be tolerated today?  What's going on here?

 

Julian Jaynes, author of The Origin of Consciousness and the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, may have an answer.

 

"At one time human nature was split in two, and executive part called a god, and a follower called a man. Neither part was conscious."

 

And what changed this man who heard the voice, much like a schizophrenic would, in his head telling him what to do either by the King or by the god? 

 

 Writing.

 

Writing came to humans about 3000 years ago. At first they were pictures such as hieroglyphs as in Egypt but in time letter were formed and books were written.  This allowed humans to save their thoughts and examine them.  This broke the cycle of the Bicameral mind and people, slowly began to wake up and hear their own thoughts and question others over them.  They also started to hear the voice of the gods less and less, which was a very disturbing turn for the worse.

 

Jaynes shows that the Illiad, written about 1260 BC is almost devoid of human emotion and introspective characters.  They just do what the voices or the gods dictate. However, in the Odyssey, written in the 900's BC, we see much more introspection and awakening of the individual.  This was a transitional time for human thought.  This is story time and when the Old Testament story comes on the scene. 

 

To me it explains most of the seeming inhuman characteristics of many OT characters. 

 

For example, we have the little boy Samuel, hearing his name called by God, but only in his head. He goes on to be a rather weirdly respected prophet who makes a career out of hearing the voices in his head. Saul on the other hand, is vilified in the OT for his independent thinking and "disobedience" to God and the men who hear the voices. Actually, Saul was more awake in his personal consciousness. He introspected where Samuel did not.  Samuel was god haunted.  Saul was not and it confused him.  Saul was told to do things by Samuel he did not understand. He was derided for things that today we would say, "well, I'd wonder about that too."  When Samuel doesn't show up, as he said he would and at the time he said he would, Saul takes charge, makes decisions and of course, gets nailed by Samuel and the voices in Samuel's head for doing so.  One man was unconscious and one was more conscious, and it wasn't the prophet of God.

 

This theory of human consciousness also explains why we see God fading from the picture in the OT.  We start out with God practically being everyone's best friend, accessible (in the mind) and ever present.  As the story unfolds, God has to be seen in symbols such as snakes and idols, clouds and pillars of fire.  He's still there and most can still hear the voice in their heads telling them what to do or how to be, but fading. 

 

Soon God drops out of the picture and now needs other humans like kings and priests to tell everyone what the voice of God in their heads says to do.  Most obey and hear the voice of the Kings and Priests as they once heard the voice of God.

 

In time, around 1000 BC we have even the Kings and Priests losing touch with the voice.  The Psalms are full of "why art thou so far off?"  "Why have you forsaken us?" and "Why do you not speak with us anymore?"  Over the next 3000 years humans seek a hundred different ways to recontact God.  Necromancy, idols, lots, oracles, smoke and prayers.  Whatever the Urim and Thummin was, it was a way to figure out what the silent God in the head wanted Israel to do.  Today we have oija boards, crystal ball gazers, ministers and priests to tell us what God wants from us as we question it all having become more conscious and scientific of thought.

 

Ministers and Priests today don't hear the voices either, well most don't, but they have the book and supposed records of those that still did.

 

From this period of time, those who still hear the voice become the prophets and conclude it must be "Sin" that has separated them from the voice and so the concept of sin was born, both national and personal.   And so all the stops are pulled to get back on track, to no avail.  Those who are not as conscious go to war with those that are more conscious. Religion is born big time and people end up on one side or the other and the rest is history as most humans now have awakened in their introspection, question asking and individuality.  

 

 

 

While I suggest a long read of Jaynes view, the short of it is that the human brain is two brains.  The right hemisphere can see and think but cannot speak. However, to this day, hallucinations and voices come from the right brain.  The left hemisphere can both see and speak because of the Broca and Wernike's areas of speech.  Whatever the right side sees, it must connect to the left to speak it. 

 

For example.  The right brain and eye sees things on the left.  The left brain and eye sees things on the right.  Together they see it all.  When the bridge between the two is cut or damaged we have a fascinating reality.  When shown slides the right sees the left one and the left sees the right one.  When the left slide injects a bit of Porn to the right eye, the person sees it but can't talk about it.  Talking is left brain and the bridge is cut.  The left eye see right slides with no porn so has no reaction.   The person starts to giggle or get red because the right eye sees the porn the left eye cannot. When asked why are you giggling.  The left side which can speak says,  "I have no idea!"

 

In the past, the right brain heard to voice of the gods, king or priests in their heads on the right side as do modern schizophrenics.  The left side talks about it. 

 

This may explain why Egypt could build such a civilization. Pyramids weren't built by slaves.  They were built by unconscious zombies of sorts who did not think for themselves.  A nation would need to be at peace for the most part to build such things and the vast number of humans would need to be easily told what needed to be done and why.  They said, "Ok" just as Abraham did. 

 

All this change in human consciousness because writing allowed humans to think more introspectively and as they did, the voice of the gods, prophets and Kings could be challenged and the rest is history.

 

Religion is the remnant of the unconscious bicameral mind struggling to reconnect itself and all who can be affected by it back to the voice and will of the gods.  It is why we have the division today between science well done and religion badly explained.  It is why we have critical thinking today and ten thousand denominations.  We both want to keep and let go of religion and the voice in our heads has now been replaced by the old old old written word about the time when the voice was heard.  We now are expect, "by faith," to hear the old voice and  obey it because most don't hear it and don't trust those who say they do.  "God says," is the now the same as "The Bible says."  Of course it is not.  We are smarter than that now because most have woken up and are more conscious than in "Bible Times."

 

Those who will not see the flaws, mistakes, errors, contradictions and so on in the Bible may be less conscious, not by intent, but by the meme that we buy into that the book is the old voice of God, now not heard, written down so we can still hear it.  However when you write something down, you are now able to examine the whole thing and see the mistakes, errors, contradictions and such in the text.  The only choice then is to either find and apologetic for them or realize that perhaps it is not what we were always told.

 

It explains why most can see the contradiction but the loudly rabid cannot and won't.

 

It explains all the craziness of religion and those in the COGs who still lead by declaring them more in touch with the voice, through the book, than others.

 

It explains the Hagees, Parsleys, Swaggerts, Hinns, Weinlands, Flurrys, Packs and you pick literalists of this present world. 

 

It explains the sincere who also don't hear the voice but are willing to trust the Book and those men who say they still hear it and should be followed. 

 

Big story. Fascinating.  This can get too long.  

 

The Origin of Consciousness and the Break Down of the Bicameral Mind

Julian Jaynes.

 

It is not rebellion on our part.  It is not scoffing.  It is awakening from the old unconsciousness of the Old Testament views and behaviors, laws and control to individual thinking and decision making. 

 

While individual waking up and consciousness causes its own problem at times, staying asleep and unconscious is not its cure. 

 

Dennis C. Diehl
DenniscDiehl@aol.com

Coming Out of Hell: A Journey From Chaos to Redemption - Book By Former COG Cult Member

Another book to add to my collection by a former COG member.  Bonnet left a comment under the blog entry on Greg Sargent

I continue to be fascinated by the many different routes people have taken when they escape from Armstrongism.  I am particularly fascinated by people who's faith was not destroyed by the lies and filth that masqueraded as Christan.

So goes the never ending collapse of the Pope Herbert empire. As to Mr Sargent, I consider him to be a sincere man with integrity, but he must have blinders on to fail to understand the ramifications of Herbert's massive indiscretions. If you read this Greg, I got out in 1995 and got born again. You can read my expose of WCG and its offshoots in my book "Coming out of Hell - A Journey from Chaos to redemption

Coming Out of Hell A Journey from Chaos to Redemption

Can we be saved and broken at the same time? Can a Christian still need inner healing?

Every person on Earth experiences sin and brokenness. But even embracing a new life in Christ does not automatically resolve the pain and bitterness of past struggles and abuse. In this remarkably candid and uplifting book, psychologist David Bonnet bares his soul, using his long battle with depression and even longer involvement with a powerful cult to show how victory in Christ can transform a shattered life. 

Coming Out of Hell is a gripping story of deliverance from the deception, manipulation, and shame of cultic involvement. It takes an inside look at how individuals and families in the grips of spiritual, emotional, and financial chaos can find healing by submitting these wounds to Jesus Christ and finding peace by living in His presence.

Join David and discover that no life is too broken for Christ to heal---not even yours.

Milestone Books 
Amazon Books

"The Religion Was Soaked With Fear..."

Here is an excerpt from an entry on a "conspiracy" site that is discussing the weirdness of Bobby Fisher.  Someone responds with the following:

American Protestants were fairly enlightened until the time Armstrong came on to the scene, its all gone down hill since. Billy Graham once referred to Herbert Armstrong as "a great man of prophecy". Herbert Armstrong predicted the end of the world would come in 1972 - doesn't pay a prophet to be too specific. We jokingly refer to Armstrong's church as a "non-prophet" organization. 

For me it wasn't a conversion by choice, my father joined the religion when I was very young and I was compelled to go. I did spend about 34 years in the religion, which is not unusual, most Catholics grew up in their religion too, they didn't convert to it. In 1993 I began to see the little man behind the curtain for what he was. Then me and few friends started an internet campaign to change the organization and reveal its corruption. About half the membership left it for more productive lives. Those that remained splintered into dozens of new organizations. The parent organization is now a Karl Barth Calvinist style church. 

I won't go into all the scandals of the religion, if you are interested in the sordid historical facts of its founders they are available at: http://hwarmstrong.com/ on a web site run by a friend of mine. I am not bitter towards the religion, the experience was a mixed bag. I still maintain friendships with those that don't mind having a heretic for a friend. Somethings taught were very good, but the image they presented of God, was frankly a monster. 

The religion was soaked with fear and because the end was always near members never put away money for their children or their retirements. Fear of God, fear of the end times, fear of even your own God given reasoning and common sense were hallmarks of the religion. Armstrong practiced a self-censoring form of mind control and had studied not only Hitler, Marx and Hegel...he says just to know how evil they were. In one letter to co-workers he admits to being an FBI informant during the McCarthy era.

------

One of the lawyers on that case told me the State of California went after the wrong things. They tried to find something wrong with the books. The Church had an air tight accounting system - in fact it was state of the art - it was a real time system that gave their current cash position at any given moment (that was in 1982). It was also pass phrase encrypting on the record level. What the State of California didn't ask was what Herbert W Armstrong did with that money, and all that required was a compliant Treasury who'd sign off on it. If the State came down, he could always have plausible deniability and fire the Treasurer. Those who didn't comply did get fired. I know of two such honest men.

The rest of the comments are here: Rumor Mill News: Bobby Fischer

It's Still "Us vs. Them" At COG Feast Sites

It is that time of year again when families in the COG travel all over the world for family reunions at different Festival sites.  New friends are made and old acquaintances rekindled.  That is of course unless you are part of these two COG splinter groups who carry on with their same old exclusivity on determining who is in and who is out.

The first is from Dennis in a comment on another thread concerning Living Church of God's treatment of people:

Just sharing a current FOT family experience: Sister, whose husband now deceased, was full time WCG minister, and nephew were going to spend half a feast this year with LCG in Cobbleskill NY. My nephew, formerly of UCG was sent a message that he could not attend until he talked to the Minister in charge of the site Mr.______ _______. Sooooo he and my widowed COG sister decided to screw it and go see family. Nice going LCG!!! Go ye therefore.....

Ans this one is from a report by person who visited Glendora on their way up to another COG site here in CA.  WCG?GCI has allowed for a regular Feast site to be held in Monrovia this year. 

We stopped by to visit with some old friends before heading up to Monterrey for the COGWA Feast.  We also wanted to see what WCG was up to these days.  The WCG site had around 40-50 in attendance.  I was shocked at how small the attendance was.  As far as I know the WCG no longer even does the cruises because I could not find anything online about their sites this year.  The Monrovia site is headed up by Carlton Smith.  Most of the people in attendance believe the Feast still should be kept on the regular days.

Smith was railing against adulterers, gays, abortionists, fornicators and other types of people that obviously irritate him. The godless people are destroying this world.  Smith also said that the Holy Spirit was present only for those people in the room.  I guess all other COG members not there are without hope. 

We had a sermon by the former Auditorium manager talking about pure religion and how a local industry made up of ex-gang members exemplifies that.   Kind of weird considering how Smith thinks no one outside the COG has God working through them.

What I found disturbing was the same old exclusive attitude that has always permeated Armstrongism was still present in the "new and improved" WCG.   It was "us vs them." Those that were in the know and those who were not.  Those called of God and those who are not. Those in and those out.  I would have thought WCG had progressed a little farther than this tired worn out mentality!  That exclusivity that Herbert Armstrong taught still has not been eradicated.  Both LCG and WCG have practiced this past week. 

Why doesn't Smith to the right thing and take all 50 members out for a work day and serve in a homeless shelter during the Feast.  That might actually be something considered Christian for once!

  I am sure there are other horror stories from the groups.  Lets see how many are reported.

Life in "Wicked Doomsday Cult"

Hat tip to both Gavin and Felix for continuing to bring Benjamin Grant Mitchell's story to light.  He recently was featured on the Australian version of "Inside Edition."  Check out the video about growing up in the the Worldwide Church of God, where it is rightly referred to as a "Wicked Doomsday Cult."

The video is here:  "Neighbours" star's dark secret

Mitchell tells of his siblings death and his grandmother who both died because of the church teachings. His father was a WCG minister until he ended  up in Pasadena and got to witness first hand the corruption.  Disfellowshipment loomed and they were exiled and shunned.

Some of the die-hard Armstrongites who saw the show are none too pleased and drop the proverbial COG mantra: "Just get over it."

The creepy thing for me watching that clip was listening to Herbert bellow from the stage and from his radio/tv broadcasts in his bombastic know-it-all "authoritative" voice.  I could feel my stomach muscles start to tighten at that sound! I guess that stems from too many years of having to sit there and listen to him bellow and vomit his crap all over us year in and year out.

Benjamin's blog and book information is here: The Last Great Day

GCI Allows Members To Hold Regular Feast of Tabernacles

Grace Communion International is allowing those  members in their midst who still hold on to all things HWA taught to keep a traditional Feast of Tabernacles in Monrovia this year.  It is set up to run on the "official" dates of the Feast that other COGlets are keeping.

GCI also set up a Feast of Trumpets observance here in Southern CA for those members who want to keep it too.  The silly thing is that the minister that spoke at is is a New Covenant minister who does not believe in keeping Trumpets.  Why in the world the die-hard Armstrongites in GCI's midst would sit in a service on their Feast of Trumpets, which they believe is to be observed, and then to be preached at by a non-believer is beyond me.  There is something wrong with that picture!

These people are still of the belief that God personally placed them in the WCG under HWA and that they are to remain true to the church where they were placed.  They think they are preserving the faith once delivered and many have the hope that things will switch back to the old ways and they will then be used as instruments to teach the lax laodicean heretics on how things really should be kept.

Prophecy Dr. Shocked "The Beast Power" Is Part of an American Think Tank

Edel Rodriguez


 

Living Church of God's most gifted prophecy dude is now shocked that The Beast is part of the Center for Strategic and International Studies.  How can Americans be sooooo stupid to allow this man to be in our governmental midst especially when he is going to be the one to imprison us in concentration camps and hang us from meathooks? Death and damnation are sure to come our way for allowing this abomination!


Prophet Thiel writes:

Baron Karl zu Guttenberg now has been appointed to be part of a US ‘think tank’:

The Local – Sept 30, 2011

The Washington-based Centre for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) announced Thursday that Guttenberg was joining the organization as a “distinguished statesman.”
Guttenberg would “lead a new transatlantic dialogue initiative at CSIS which will bring European and American thought-leaders, practitioners and officials together,” the CSIS said in a statement.
This would allow them to develop “a bold, new strategic vision to reinvigorate the transatlantic relationship and prevent strategic drift.” …

The unpaid position at the CSIS is an advisory post also held by Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak.  http://www.thelocal.de/national/20110930-37919.html

The above is interesting for several reasons, including something I posted about related to him in July 2011:

As regular readers of this page are aware, I have had my eye on one-time German Defense Minister Baron Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg since late 2009 as one who could possibly fulfill the role of the final King of the North…If he is the one, his coming stay in the USA will give him better insight into the USA and probably contacts that he may exploit later, perhaps as a subterfuge for an attack on the USA (cf. Daniel 11:39).

By becoming part of the Washington-based Centre for Strategic and International Studies, Baron Guttenberg will have contacts in the USA that he is likely to use politically in future.  And since there is at least one major Israeli leader in the same think tank, this may influence him enough so that he possibly can fulfill the prophecies Daniel 9:26-27 (which he may do directly, or perhaps only through confirmation indirectly).

Whether he is the one or not, I believe that the Baron’s scandal earlier this year and his current self-imposed ‘exile’ appear to be consistent with certain non-biblical prophecies about a leader commonly referred to as the Great Monarch and possibly biblical prophecies concerning the Beast, the final King of the North.

 But just to cover his ass the Prophet writes:

On the other hand, it is possible that Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg could simply be a normal politician, with ups and downs like many others. We will see.

Much is happening in the world, and a leader known as the final King of the North (or Beast) in Bible prophecy, will ultimately become the leader of Europe. And according to the Bible, he will have military abilities (Revelation 13:1-4) and apparently be popular and charismatic (cf. Daniel 7:20,11:21-24,31; Revelation 13:3-5).

Karl Guttenberg fulfills these requirements.
We all should watch (cf. Mark 13:37).

Wouldn't it just be simpler to keep your mouth shut and stop speculating than to continually make a fool of your self in front of LCG, Armstrongism and the rest of the world?

"Matches In The Gas Tank" by Carla Powers

I bought this book when it first came out.  It is an excellent book detailing what the Radio Church of God/Worldwide Church of God was like back in the 50's and 60's.  While I never had a father such as hers, the descriptions she has of life in the Church are spot on.

Carla Powers is a self made woman who is proof that there is a life after Armstrongism.

She finished Baylor Law School and passed the bar at 22. Five and a half years later, Carla became the first woman partner in a 100-lawyer Houston firm. For the next 15 years, she tried cases, was an adjunct professor at the University of Houston Law Center, wrote articles, and gave speeches. In 2000, she joined a major multinational energy company and three years later became worldwide head of litigation. But success didn’t make Carla happy.

When an inner voice awakened her in the middle of the night and told her to start writing, she realized that she’d found a calling: sharing the transformational power that comes from acknowledging life's difficult experiences and breaking away the walls of shame that keep us from our true purpose.

Matches in the Gas Tank, A Memoir by Carla Powers

Carla Powers was Daddy's princess back in Arkansas in the late 1950s. Then Daddy got religion.
That religion, based in the teachings and deprivation of narrow-minded, punitive ministers, tormented her dangerous alcoholic father and her entire family. Growing up, Carla never knew a woman could do anything more than she was asked—or demanded—to do. She definitely never imagined that other worlds would open up to her and she would rise to become a powerful attorney.

Matches in the Gas Tank tells the story of life inside the Radio Church of God and the influence of Herbert W. Armstrong, the Church's founder and prophet. Under his influence, Carla's family moved away from relatives and friends to Big Sandy, Texas, an enclave in which everyone lived by strict and unforgiving rules arbitrarily determined by Armstrong. His vision of how to get to "The Kingdom of God" and avoid a sea of flames consisted of unending lists of rules covering everything from food consumption, to financial responsibilities, to sexual behavior.

The only way to rise above the poverty level was to become a minister, and the only way to become a minister was to continually police your neighbors for sin. Ministers were allowed to barge in a home any time of the day or night to inspect everything from the cleanliness of a family's kitchen to the contents of their tax returns.

This is the story of how Carla escaped the control of the church and found a way to deal with the legacy of abuse and shame left to her by her father. As she embraces her difficult childhood, she comes to understand that while those we love have the power to hurt us, they can't destroy us. We can find strength in unexpected places.

Anyone who has had a less-than-perfect family, has struggled with the faith of her fathers or has gone through recovery from abuse, perfectionism, or any cult of personality will connect with the power of redemption in this moving memoir.

Check out her site here:  Carla Powers: Purpose Beyond the Power Suit

Latest Armstrongite Flare-Up: WCG Wales

You would have thought all the legalists that worshiped all things HWA would have left WCG/GCI by now.  It seems they have not in Wales.

There has been a rebellion recently by a deacon there who is leading a small group of people away from WCG.  It seems a WCG minister came to celebrate Unleavened Bread in a small Welsh church and brought a loaf of regular bread.  Drama ensued and the deacon is seeking to negotiate with Spanky Meredith about bringing his group into Spanky's cult.

There is another extremely small splinter cult in the same area (Church of God in Wales), but the deacon will not join with them because he had a falling out with them previously.  They want to get back as close to HWA's teachings as possible.

From the UK Apologeticss site:

Here in Wales a WCG group which has met in the southwest Wales area for several years (some of them known to your writer) have suddenly become more militant, insisting that pure Armstrongism should be revived in their area. Apparently, civil war broke out when a minister from the UK 'headquarters' attended their west Wales meeting place on the First Day of Unleavened Bread, 2011, taking only fully leavened bread which he openly ate in the presence of all. He also preached, effectively telling them that it was time for them to grow up! I have now received a few reports of what ensued, though, as always in such reports, there are variations. According to one report, the anger almost came to blows being landed, certainly the official WCG 'minister' was accused of 'preaching heresy.'

We are told that the deacon who seems to have led the local rebellion now states that he will lead the west Wales WCG grouping out of the officially "reformed" WCG and will make contact with the 'Living Church of God' (Roderick Meredith's old, diehard Amstrongist group; website here), in order to recover full-blown Armstrongist teachings. Of course, numbers are now absolutely tiny, we speak here of about 20-25 people at the very most. But the official WCG in Wales is already very small so if this breakaway goes ahead this will make their numbers even more meager.

Interestingly, this part of southwest Wales (around Whitland) already has an extremist Armstrongist group, the so-called Church of God in Wales, Now this group is truly tiny, 3-7 people the last time I heard, but the new deacon-led grouping is currently insisting (although this could change) that they will not make contact with that group because of former clashes between the deacon and the former WCG local elder who later set himself up as leader of this COGW ('Church of God in Wales'). I understand that further damage was done when the former WCG local elder did not attend the funeral of a long-standing member in the area.

This is not something new to WCG.  Almost every congregation still contains a few members who are loyal to HWA's teachings.  They remain in WCG/GCI because that is where God placed them. They feel that God will correct the situation in due time.  Many feel that by staying put they will become leaders when the GCI repents of it's errors and they can begin teaching 'the truth'. to the returning and repenting flock.  They are sad, miserable people who make everyone around them equally miserable.

Robin Brace sums up their state of mind quite well:

One could be somewhat amused by all of these rather sad goings-on but the real tragedy is that the Lord Jesus Christ is not enough for these people, they are firmly legalistic, believing that they cannot be "true Christians" without being in subservience to a whole group of Old Covenant laws. These people hold to what is sometimes now called Galatianism, and the Apostle Paul's ringing condemnation of Galatianist legalism should be a warning for us all....

So the WCG legalists (yes, there obviously still are WCG legalists, whatever you might have been led to believe) just seem to be committed to judging their brothers and sisters and causing friction. When will some of these people grow up? When will they actually study the Scriptures for themselves instead of worshipping at the shrine of Armstrongism?
Robin A. Brace. June 25th, 2011.

We'll Take Care of You, and Pray for You Too!

A Very Personal and Private Open Letter to the Grace International Fellowship, Formerly Known as Prince, Leadership .

 

Greetings in the Name of the Triune Jesus who includes most, but obviously not all, in the wonderous works done in His name.

 

Nearing the traditional retirement age in America and realizing you took me seriously when I joked the Worldwide Church of God retirement program seems to be for the minister to drive into a tree at 65 years old and 65 miles an hour, I wished to make a simple plea.

 

Crazy me, years ago when I asked in a Refresher Seminar if the WCG was meeting its obligations to full time pastors to prepare for their retirement, Mr. Ron Kelly assured us all, "we will take care of you."  Whew...that really was encouraging.  We had to be patient and trust the Administration, but no problem.  They all knew that the NT said, something about saying, "be warmed and be filled but give not to them what is needed..." , so I relaxed over doubts about what I was hearing  and obviously it was simply my carnal nature getting the best of me. 

 

When terminated, Mr. Curtis May of the Reconciliation Dept said he's pray for me and wished me luck, which sounded a lot like that scripture, but I realize it was just in the way I was hearing it.  No one would really do that and not have it seem hilarious coming from the "Reconciliation Dept."   That would be crazy!

 

Now I understand it doesn't matter and Church was never about the money, but I estimated that I (sorry about that) inspired the giving of millions...over 40 million in my own personal journey through "we will take care of you."   My parents and 30+ other family members, mostly ending up as ministers, elders, deacons and deaconesses all over the place gave hundred of thousands I am pretty sure.  They have all gone back to their roots or moved on to happy slappy mega-churches.  I, on the other hand, now rub people the right way by teaching and practicing therapeutic massage.  I get so tempted to declare myself a Prophet, Apostle, Witness or Really Special Jesus Person, but it's just not in me.  Three Hundred Thousand folks have downloaded my articles on things I seemed to have missed in Harmony of the Gospels Class and Epistles of Paul.  Well actually, things I seemed to have missed from Genesis to Revelation in my education by the experts at WCG.  One guy wrote me to tell me words can get you killed and another said I was just bitter, but honest, I just ever wanted to know the truth about life and still am working on that one.  One did say I was just another "High Priest of Marduk," and I thanked him as I have not had a religious title for years now and it feels really good.

 

Mr. Bernie Schnippert, who was legal counsel for the WCG, told me he was really sorry but he could do nothing for those who didn't get happy slappy over Jesus and were still in the employ of the church through all the transitions. It's nice how he retired, moved to the Pacific Northwest and all I hear about how nice it is to be near his family and grand kids.  I got marooned in South Carolina and everyone is a bit scattered due to Church, Church, Church but that's fine. I never thought I'd get to live in the deep south and in the Bible Belt to boot which serves as a constant reminder of the fear, guilt and shame Jesus uses to keep us all in line.  Trust me, "Pray, Obey, Pay and Stay" is just as bad here as anywhere...Gnome sayin??  I asked a few guys who stayed and still are with WCG now CGI, or even UCG, PCG or RCG, if they believed it all and they said "No, but I want to get to retirement."  Sheesh...I should have pulled that stunt!  Oh well, proof that the children of light are more stupid than the children of Satan at times.

 

Anyway, at the time, I did what you told me to do with my severance agreement.  I took it to a lawyer friend but it was kinda bad news for me it seemed.  She asked me if this document really came from a church?  I said yes and she said, and I do apologize ahead of time for this but her quote was kinda cool..."You're fucked."   Whew...after fanning myself and telling her to please please not used bad words like that, she said, "Ok, well this is not to your advantage."   "That's a lot better I told her."  Well I mean the way she broke the news to me was better, not the actual news contained therein.

 

First of all, and let me be clear, I know this letter is just between you and me so I do understand a few things about the attitudes the dear brethren have towards use despicable minister types.  I know they think we deserve to go down in flames and love to mock us as God's chosen ministers.  We know the Bible tells us to expect this.  We know they think we were all insincere bastards just in it for the money, power and control but we know this is not so.  I became somewhat of a bastard sinner nutcase AFTER my Church of God experience, but don't think that should be held against me.  Transitions are messy and like Cher said once, "Life is not easy. Mine has been messy at times, but it is just me doing the best I can."  Somehow that comforts me. 

 

Anyway...I think you have stashed millions somewhere from the sale of assets my family and hundreds of thousands of others bought for you guys.  I can't imagine that you are using it all up with only five of you actually drawing a real retirement from it.  Can I have some please?  Maybe around $5-600 a month just for rent and groceries.  I'm not asking for medical insurance. While I don't have any and can't get any, I feel pretty good and if I blow a gallbladder or get some dumbass later in life disease, I will just agree to let go and enter the Kingdom. I mean after all, we're all just dying to get to heaven anyway so no biggie.  I can bite on a wooden stick for pain and if reasonably close to the surface, can drink whiskey, like in the old days and just cut it out or off.  Teeth come out pretty well with a well placed blow so again, it's not like there aren't solutions to health challenges.  People with insurance for such things really just lack faith in God's healing and Jesus Grace so really, it puts me in a much more spiritually superior position.  It feels good to act like I know it all.  Know what I'm sayin????

 

Ok, well lots of thoughts to share.  I promise this will be kept between us.  I anxiously away your proposal to help me get through.  Oh shit.. (oopse sorry, I'd be afraid to give sermons these days for all the new words I've learned since WCG days) ,I forgot you had me sign away Social Security because, well you know, "we will take care of you and we don't have to save it for you on ministerial salaries."  Pretty slick!!!  So if you could include another $50/month, that would help.  

 

Thanks so much!!! I know you will do the right thing for those who built your buildings, bought your groceries, houses, cars, vacations and funded your Holy Day sacrifices traveling all over the world for Jesus.  The Cruise for Jesus in the Fall was a great idea!  Trash the Festival but then take cruises talking about how evil it all was is brilliant!!!   How do you guys come up with this stuff?

 

Ok, shhhhhh.  This is just between us.  Bernie did say that if I talked badly about the Church and such, there would truly be no retirement at all.  We'd not want that and I'm sure that's not what YOU meant. I hate it when others speak for me and don't represent me accurately.  Actually I hate it when they do represent me accurately but that's another story I suppose.

 

Blessings and love to you all.  Let's Surprise God like Ted Johnston likes to do and handle this quickly and as Jesus would.  Since that crazy Jesus tricked me into coming into that nutty Wildworld Church of God, the least He can do is give us a glass of cool water getting over it all.

 

Thank you so much.  I can't wait to share your response with just a few close friends.

 

Warm regards in Him

 

Dennis Diehl

High Priest of Marduk

DenniscDiehl@aol.com   

Ex-COG Member Slits Throats of Daughters and Self, To Avoid Tribulation (Updated)

More damaging proof that the extreme beliefs of Armstrongism is dangerous to one's health and mental well being!  Her husband is a well established dentist in Pasadena area.  Truly a sad situation for this entire family! They were church members in Pasadena for many years.  Where they went after the break up of the church I don't know.  WCG/GCI doesn't preach this kind of stuff anymore so I imagine they are with  one of the splinter groups.(Verified in the comments below that they are no longer part of COGdoom)

ABC News Story

KTLA News

Cops: Woman Tries to Kill Children, Self to Avoid 'the Tribulation'

Lyn Benedetto was booked at Lancaster Station on $1 million dollars bail.
Watch Cheryl Getuiza's report.

Lyn Benedetto (Handout / March 19, 2011)

345Share
0diggsdigg
• Related
• Lyn Benedetto
• VIDEO: Lancaster Mom Tries to Kill Kids, Self, Before 'Tribulation' Comes - Cheryl Getuiza reports
• Find out more about reporter Cheryl Getuiza

KTLA News

2:51 p.m. PDT, March 19, 2011

ktla-palmdale-woman-attempted-murder

Palmdale (KTLA) -- A woman slit her daughters' throats before slitting her own early Friday evening, claiming that "the Tribulation" was going to occur and she wanted to prevent them from suffering through it, officials said.

Lyn Benedetto, 47, reportedly told her daughters to lie on a bed and proceeded to take a knife to their throats.

The suspect then took the knife to her own throat before driving the victims to an unoccupied friend's house to die.

Lancaster Station deputies responded to a call regarding an "assault with knife" at about 5:32pm from the owner of the residence where the victims had been taken.

The victims and the suspect were found and the location, and the suspect was subsequently arrested.

The victims were treated at Antelope Valley Hospital for moderate though non life-threatening injuries and released to custody of Department of Children's Services.

===============

Antelope Valley News has this posting similar to above, except it includes the comment that the chidlren said their mother did it to them becasue she was scared of the tribulation:

The victims stated their mother  Lyn  Benedetto, 47, believed “The Tribulation” was about to occur and she did not want them to suffer by going through it.   AVNews

When Despair Comes Calling

When Despair Comes Calling

"The battle went hard against Saul, and the archers overtook him; and he was greatly distressed by reason of the archers."

I Samuel 31:3

I always read this scripture and elaborated on its implications when doing the funeral of a Church Member who had taken their own lives.  

This business of the "battle going hard" is one worth discussing.  Sometimes that's just how life feels and rarely, but on occasion, some of those disillusioned by their experience with the Bible, the Church and all the failed promises or misguided perspectives humans allow themselves to adopt can take a final toll.

 ⁴ Saul said to his armor-bearer, “Draw your sword and run me through, or these uncircumcised fellows will come and run me through and abuse me.”

   But his armor-bearer was terrified and would not do it; so Saul took his own sword and fell on it. ⁵ When the armor-bearer saw that Saul was dead, he too fell on his sword and died with him. ⁶ So Saul and his three sons and his armor-bearer and all his men died together that same day. 

Suicide is a very difficult topic to address when it involves those who had such hope gone badly with regards to religion.  It truly is a permanent solution to temporary problem, but it sure does not seem that way at the time.

As a former pastor, I knew the real truth of some of the deaths in the congregations around me.  I've known of both minister and member who outwardly died suddenly of this or that thing, but really ended their own lives.  It is unspeakable and very difficult to face for those who survive.  If the one who ended their life could see what carnage they leave behind with family and friends, they might rethink it.  However, thinking is not one's strong point when despair overtakes them.

The battle just got overwhelming and despair set down its roots leaving the person with nothing.

Suicide is always seen as a quick thing. It happens in seconds and minutes.  I have known good men, who in the despair of ongoing church drama and endless scandal drank themselves to death.  That takes a bit longer.  In our culture one is allowed to kill themselves slowly by confusing sugar, caffeine, alcohol and nicotine as the four food groups.  It's ok to kill yourself slowly.  But it is not ok to take your life quickly.  You can abuse yourself willingly years and die knowing life styles and addictions are taking their toll, but you can't turn on a lethal drip of something to choose the time of your death.

 We might wonder if Jesus, in the story, did not commit suicide.  Overturning tables in the Temple with the Romans already waiting to crush any trouble around the Temple during Passover might be considered suicidal.  It worked for Jesus.  Stephen seems to have committed suicide by flapping his mouth against those that could hurt him.  His deaconship was rather short lived.  He may have done better had he explained his position or discussed it. But just ramming it down their throats was definitely suicide.

In the Bible, some seem to see proof that "God" hates abortion and those that end the life of a child in the womb are murderers.  However, if you have any sense of the Bible stories, it is not difficult to conclude that all bets are off once the child is actually born.

  "God" is real big in the OT on scraping the children of the enemy off the face of the earth, and in ways that would leave most of us with life long nightmares if we saw how it was done.  Go watch the stoning of a woman on Youtube.  It still happens.  Actually don't.  You'll be sorry that clip now plays in your head.  Strange and horrific rules and laws from the mind of the God who became Love. 

But let's talk about the fast form and the form that arises when despair in the heart of the person has reached it's maximum. I realize this is an almost unspeakable topic. Let's talk about it. 

Recently I noticed that in my town all the radio preachers were talking about suicide.  It seemed odd.  All of them were warning against it or equating it to letting Satan get in and work his magic etc.  I found out that in the month just before and after Xmas, several local pastors had ended their lives.  Now the programs made sense, but the act of a minister killing himself did not of course and they felt they all had to talk about it.  I only recall them addressing it as a no no for the yet living congregants and Satan getting all the credit, but one never found out what the despair in the heart of the victim really was. 

Why do deeply religious people sometimes end their lives?  The killer is despair. Why despair?  Because in religion one is supposed to find the answers and the hope and the meaning of it all.  In our experience with WCG, the Wonderful World Tomorrow became the Horrible World Today again with a heavy dose of anger, skepticism and despair over "what it's all about."  Idealists and those who can't suffer drama well are perhaps the most vulnerable.

Our religious beliefs are supposed to relieve the drama, anxiety and fear we experience in life.  It's why when others attack your faith or beliefs we fight back. If you take away my truth or if you show me wrong in a way that leaves nothing encouraging, one loses courage and the trinity of drama, anxiety and fear return putting us back where we first began when we thought we had the truth that held it at bay.  We're all afraid of death. Religion is what humans adopt to reduce that fear and the anxiety that sits just below the surface whispering "it's all for nothing."  The last sermon I ever gave was entitled, "Nothing is for Nothing."  It was the only topic I could come up with to wrap up the previous 30 years.  I still believe it so we'll see.

According to Psychology Today...

In general, people try to kill themselves for six reasons:

1. They're depressed. This is without question the most common reason people commit suicide. Severe depression is always accompanied by a pervasive sense of suffering as well as the belief that escape from it is hopeless. The pain of existence often becomes too much for severely depressed people to bear. The state of depression warps their thinking, allowing ideas like "Everyone would all be better off without me" to make rational sense. They shouldn't be blamed for falling prey to such distorted thoughts any more than a heart patient should be blamed for experiencing chest pain: it's simply the nature of their disease. Because depression, as we all know, is almost always treatable, we should all seek to recognize its presence in our close friends and loved ones. Often people suffer with it silently, planning suicide without anyone ever knowing. Despite making both parties uncomfortable, inquiring directly about suicidal thoughts in my experience almost always yields an honest response. 
2. They're psychotic. Malevolent inner voices often command self-destruction for unintelligible reasons. Psychosis is much harder to mask than depression-and arguably even more tragic. The worldwide incidence of schizophrenia is 1% and often strikes otherwise healthy, high-performing individuals, whose lives, though manageable with medication, never fulfill their original promise.
3. They're impulsive. Often related to drugs and alcohol, some people become maudlin and impulsively attempt to end their own lives. Once sobered and calmed, these people usually feel emphatically ashamed. The remorse is usually genuine, and whether or not they'll ever attempt suicide again is unpredictable. They may try it again the very next time they become drunk or high, or never again in their lifetime.
4. They're crying out for help, and don't know how else to get it. These people don't usually want to die but do want to alert those around them that something is seriously wrong. They often don't believe they will die, frequently choosing methods they don't think can kill them in order to strike out at someone who's hurt them-but are sometimes tragically misinformed.
5. They have a philosophical desire to die. The decision to commit suicide for some is based on a reasoned decision often motivated by the presence of a painful terminal illness from which little to no hope of reprieve exists. These people aren't depressed, psychotic, maudlin, or crying out for help. They're trying to take control of their destiny and alleviate their own suffering, which usually can only be done in death.
6. They've made a mistake. This is a recent, tragic phenomenon in which typically young people flirt with oxygen deprivation for the high it brings and simply go too far. The only defense against this, it seems to me, is education.
7.  

Everyone I have ever asked, "Have you ever considered suicide," said..."yes of course. We all have those times when the thought crosses one's mind."  And then they forget about it. 

Sometimes those who find no reason to go on, and more commonly today than ever, feel the need to take others with them. Our collective experience with Milwaukee and the WCG is a case in point. I always felt that somewhere, sometime this event would come to WCG or at least one of the splinters. I felt it would happen a bit higher up the chain but the Saturday morning when I heard that there was a Saturday morning rampage in a church in a hotel setting, I said to myself, "It has happened."  And it had. That's what despair can do. 

What to look for.

WARNING SIGNS

Conditions associated with increased risk of suicide

• Death or terminal illness of relative or friend. 
•  
• Divorce, separation, broken relationship, stress on family. 
•  
• Loss of health (real or imaginary). 
•  
• Loss of job, home, money, status, self-esteem, personal security. 
•  
• Alcohol or drug abuse. 
•  
• Depression. In the young depression may be masked by hyperactivity or acting out behavior. In the elderly it may be incorrectly attributed to the natural effects of aging. Depression that seems to quickly disappear for no apparent reason is cause for concern. The early stages of recovery from depression can be a high risk period. Recent studies have associated anxiety disorders with increased risk for attempted suicide. 
•  

Emotional and behavioral changes associated with suicide

• Overwhelming Pain: pain that threatens to exceed the person's pain coping capacities. Suicidal feelings are often the result of longstanding problems that have been exacerbated by recent precipitating events. The precipitating factors may be new pain or the loss of pain coping resources.
• Hopelessness: the feeling that the pain will continue or get worse; things will never get better.
• Powerlessness: the feeling that one's resources for reducing pain are exhausted.
• Feelings of worthlessness, shame, guilt, self-hatred, no one cares. Fears of losing control, harming self or others.
• Personality becomes sad, withdrawn, tired, apathetic, anxious, irritable, or prone to angry outbursts.
• Declining performance in school, work, or other activities. (Occasionally the reverse: someone who volunteers for extra duties because they need to fill up their time.)
• Social isolation; or association with a group that has different moral standards than those of the family.
• Declining interest in sex, friends, or activities previously enjoyed.
• Neglect of personal welfare, deteriorating physical appearance.
• Alterations in either direction in sleeping or eating habits.
• (Particularly in the elderly) Self-starvation, dietary mismanagement, disobeying medical instructions.
• Difficult times: holidays, anniversaries, and the first week after discharge from a hospital; just before and after diagnosis of a major illness; just before and during disciplinary proceedings. Undocumented status adds to the stress of a crisis. 
•  

Suicidal Behavior

 

• Previous suicide attempts, mini-attempts.
• Explicit statements of suicidal ideation or feelings.
• Development of suicidal plan, acquiring the means, rehearsal behavior, setting a time for the attempt.
• Self-inflicted injuries, such as cuts, burns, or head banging.
• Reckless behavior. (Besides suicide, other leading causes of death among young people in New York City are homicide, accidents, drug overdose, and AIDS.) Unexplained accidents among children and the elderly.
• Making out a will or giving away favorite possessions.
• Inappropriately saying goodbye.
• Verbal behavior that is ambiguous or indirect: I'm going away on a real long trip., You won't have to worry about me anymore., I want to go to sleep and never wake up., I'm so depressed, I just can't go on., Does God punish suicides?, Voices are telling me to do bad things., requests for euthanasia information, inappropriate joking, stories or essays on morbid themes.  

How to Help

Take it seriously.

Myth: The people who talk about it don't do it. Studies have found that more than 75% of all completed suicides did things in the few weeks or months prior to their deaths to indicate to others that they were in deep despair. Anyone expressing suicidal feelings needs immediate attention. 
Myth: Anyone who tries to kill himself has got to be crazy. Perhaps 10% of all suicidal people are psychotic or have delusional beliefs about reality. Most suicidal people suffer from the recognized mental illness of depression; but many depressed people adequately manage their daily affairs. The absence of craziness does not mean the absence of suicide risk.
Those problems weren't enough to commit suicide over, is often said by people who knew a completed suicide. You cannot assume that because you feel something is not worth being suicidal about, that the person you are with feels the same way. It is not how bad the problem is, but how badly it's hurting the person who has it. 

Remember: suicidal behavior is a cry for help.

Myth: If a someone is going to kill himself, nothing can stop him. The fact that a person is still alive is sufficient proof that part of him wants to remain alive. The suicidal person is ambivalent -- part of him wants to live and part of him wants not so much death as he wants the pain to end. It is the part that wants to live that tells another I feel suicidal. If a suicidal person turns to you it is likely that he believes that you are more caring, more informed about coping with misfortune, and more willing to protect his confidentiality. No matter how negative the manner and content of his talk, he is doing a positive thing and has a positive view of you. 

Be willing to give and get help sooner rather than later.

Suicide prevention is not a last minute activity. All textbooks on depression say it should be reached as soon as possible. Unfortunately, suicidal people are afraid that trying to get help may bring them more pain: being told they are stupid, foolish, sinful, or manipulative; rejection; punishment; suspension from school or job; written records of their condition; or involuntary commitment. You need to do everything you can to reduce pain, rather than increase or prolong it. Constructively involving yourself on the side of life as early as possible will reduce the risk of suicide. 

Listen.

Give the person every opportunity to unburden his troubles and ventilate his feelings. You don't need to say much and there are no magic words. If you are concerned, your voice and manner will show it. Give him relief from being alone with his pain; let him know you are glad he turned to you. Patience, sympathy, acceptance. Avoid arguments and advice giving. 

ASK: Are you having thoughts of suicide?

Myth: Talking about it may give someone the idea. People already have the idea; suicide is constantly in the news media. If you ask a despairing person this question you are doing a good thing for them: you are showing him that you care about him, that you take him seriously, and that you are willing to let him share his pain with you. You are giving him further opportunity to discharge pent up and painful feelings. If the person is having thoughts of suicide, find out how far along his ideation has progressed.

If the person is acutely suicidal, do not leave him alone.

If the means are present, try to get rid of them. Detoxify the home. 

Urge professional help.

Persistence and patience may be needed to seek, engage and continue with as many options as possible. In any referral situation, let the person know you care and want to maintain contact. 

No secrets.

It is the part of the person that is afraid of more pain that says Don't tell anyone. It is the part that wants to stay alive that tells you about it. Respond to that part of the person and persistently seek out a mature and compassionate person with whom you can review the situation. (You can get outside help and still protect the person from pain causing breaches of privacy.) Do not try to go it alone. Get help for the person and for yourself. Distributing the anxieties and responsibilities of suicide prevention makes it easier and much more effective. 

From crisis to recovery.

Most people have suicidal thoughts or feelings at some point in their lives; yet less than 2% of all deaths are suicides. Nearly all suicidal people suffer from conditions that will pass with time or with the assistance of a recovery program. There are hundreds of modest steps we can take to improve our response to the suicidal and to make it easier for them to seek help. Taking these modest steps can save many lives and reduce a great deal of human suffering.

Sometimes the battle goes hard against us.  But ending one's life is a permanent solution to a temporary problem and leaves a lifetime of anger, guilt and shame for those left behind.  

"How do you know you are supposed to having the experience in life you are having?  Because you are having it."

Eckhart Tolle

"Experience is not only the best teacher, it is the only one.  Everything else is merely hearsay."

Me

I hope this is a helpful and balanced view.  Those you never hear about in the saga and drama of the WCG are those we need to remember and encourage. Tens of thousands associated with WCG have simply faded away to wonder what that was all about.  Most will keep searching for their truth and continue their journey. Some will give up or be tempted to give in to the despair that theological upheaval inflicted on the many by the few can cause.  Those who have hijacked the hopes of others, perpetuate their own views and do very very well at it will be fine.  They are empty clouds but doing well.

And finally in answer to the thought that went through your minds while reading this...the answer is no.  I am fine.  I have been here as have many.  But I am fine.

DenniscDiehl@aol.com