Walking Fraud Street: David C. Pack’s 10,000 Piece Puzzle of Nothing Beyond

Walking Fraud Street 

David C. Pack’s 10,000 Piece Puzzle of Nothing Beyond 

Around 1927, when a young-in-faith Herbert W. Armstrong discovered Matthew 24:14, he concluded that someone must fulfill that prophecy. Almost sixty years later, that same man was traveling the globe 300 days a year in a private jet, spreading a message of hope that would soon end all wars and strife, and the good news he brought was that there is a way to end poverty, disease, and starvation.

Until his death in January 1986, no one could accuse Herbert W. Armstrong of The Worldwide Church of God of not using “God’s money” to spread a Gospel of the Kingdom of God to a world some viewed as teetering on the edge of collapse.

In November of 2015, Pastor General David C. Pack of The Restored Church of God started his self-described authoritative defining of the Mystery of God and laid the foundation of the complete schematic of God’s plan for all mankind. Those of us attending RCG at that time could only ask ourselves two questions: Where is he going with this, and what will be the conclusion?

In the early days of “The Greatest Story Never Told!” David C. Pack framed his Series as a complicated 10,000-piece puzzle that only he could solve due to his unique background and special training. Apparently, his mother was a very talented puzzle solver, and young Dave quickly picked up the same skills. Becoming masterful at solving complex puzzles would make that person a cognitive genius. 

David C. Pack’s 10,000-piece puzzle presentation was supposed to have all the details of the gospel clearly defined. All the complicated pieces were to fit perfectly together, revealing the complete good news that had been hidden from mankind for ages. Once the world heard and understood this message, they would finally have the words of eternal life.

David C. Pack’s “Greatest Untold Story” was unlike any store-bought puzzle. Puzzles at the store have spectacular photos or artwork on the box, along with a piece count and size to give the potential buyer all the information they need to decide if they want to invest the effort into building that image. They know exactly what the conclusion will be. 

In The Restored Church of God, the Pastor General’s puzzle was a mystery confined behind many successive doors with an astonishing number of locks, all residing in vast darkness. The RCG members give complete allegiance of trust to their Pastor General and thus commit to paying in advance for an unseen, unsubstantiated, overhyped conclusion billed as beyond spectacular.

Through all the darkness, blindness, smoke, mirrors, and criticism over the past ten years, “The Greatest Story Never Told!” has been defended vigorously by David C. Pack as a message about the gospel of God comprising The “who”, the “what”, and “when” of God’s one, two, and three iterations of His Kingdoms. This is not a prophetic piece of work, though it contains many prophecies we have been told to believe.

If the now 10-year long series of “The Greatest Story Never Told!” has reached a conclusion and all the intricate mysteries of the final pieces of the gospel puzzle have been revealed, it is essential to understand how David C. Pack arrived at that conclusion, just as it is equally important for as many people as possible to hear that conclusion if it is true.

In 2009, David C. Pack invented the concept of “open doctrine.” “Open doctrine” is the first step to redefining “present truth.” After a present truth is established, it becomes “official church doctrine,” which demands strict adherence. For RCG members, this is a dead end with no escape. All three steps are melded together and are enacted in real-time all the time. There is no avenue for RCG members to get beyond this. 

Most biblical students would strongly question the gospel being subject to exegesis some two thousand years after reaching maturity in the first century, especially if it is done by a man who believes he is the sole source of biblical interpretation. For David C. Pack, each page of the Bible was waiting for him to excise its words and then piece back together a conclusion that is mind-blowing in its revelation.

David C. Pack has often vehemently framed this revelatory process as originating from the Holy Spirit. Despite the claims of divine origin, it has not been spiritually rosy in the RCG despite the spectacular gardens.

David C. Pack started his Series with approximately 2,500 members and is finishing it with about half that. Which means in his mind, half the virgins were foolish and impatient and went to taste all the world’s delights and have no oil in their lamps anymore. The remaining 1,250 members have slumbered and slept for the past 10 years in their most important guard: “Don’t believe me, believe your Bible.” The complexities of the conclusions that David C. Pack has taught have been a grievous burden upon the RCG membership. But they do know how to follow the feigned words of their slightly held idol, and they have paid handsomely for the privilege to not only know the “who” but the “what” some of the time. And to know the “when” all the time —cough cough—none of the time.

For the weary, longstanding RCG member, “The Greatest Untold Story!” has a conclusion that contains a reward for them. That reward is to stand before eight billion people as a god figure for seven years...maybe? To obtain that reward, the RCG member must check all the boxes in David C. Pack’s works of salvation.

One of those works is paying “Common.” If tithes and offerings are the basis for funding church operations and congregations, then “Common” is David C. Pack’s magnificently conceived, yet unbiblical method for extracting enormous amounts of money for mostly one specific purpose. If you ever wonder what the draw is to line up and cash out, check out just part of this highly polished RCG sales pitch contained in their article titled: COMMON—Paying One Portion of Christ’s Price.

Many millions of people (including wealthy philanthropists) collectively give vast billions of dollars to charitable organizations in an attempt to fix this world. Governments and international organizations invest additional billions to eradicate hunger, poverty, disease, and war. Yet all their efforts ultimately fail. No amount of human ingenuity can solve mankind’s problems.

You can participate in giving the most wonderful gift this world could possibly receive. By supporting the Work of preaching the gospel of the Kingdom of God and all other Bible truths in all nations (Matthew 28:19-20), you are helping to bring a message of hope to a world groping about in spiritual darkness (Isaiah 59:9-10)—the sure hope of a better world soon to come, to be established under the reign of Jesus Christ.

What greater calling could there be?

The Work has distributed scores of millions of pieces of literature during the past several years, and many millions of people have visited the Church’s websites. But consider: Earth’s population is beyond 7.6 billion human beings. Think of those who live in your city, town, village, or even your neighborhood—have they heard the true gospel? What about your family, friends, neighbors, co-workers, and acquaintances—have they listened to this greatest of news? Realize there is tremendous work to be done. Truly, we (following Jesus’ example) must be about our Father’s business!

Many live unhappy, unfulfilled lives. Some seek answers to their problems and life’s greatest questions. Knowing we can participate in bringing them precious knowledge should excite us to no end, motivating us to do everything we can.

As David C. Pack explained to the Church, Christ’s price involves three elements that Jesus plainly laid out. These are listed in Luke 14 in the context of “counting the cost” of Christianity:

(1) Loving Christ more than anyone, including our own lives: “If any man come to Me, and hate [Greek: love less by comparison] not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple” (vs. 26).

(2) Bearing the burdens/crosses that we face in life: “Whosoever does not bear his cross, and come after Me, cannot be My disciple” (vs. 27).

(3) Giving our assets to support preaching the gospel. “So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsakes not all that he has, he cannot be My disciple” (vs. 33).

You would think that after reading that, you would conclude that the RCG is perfectly in line with what its predecessor did. In the Worldwide Church of God, Herbert W. Armstrong repeatedly reminded the lay membership that the ONLY REASON they were called was to support the work and commission of preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of God as a witness unto the world. The difference between the WCG and RCG is that David C. Pack moved past just tithes and offerings supporting the work of God.

“Common” is how a little church does “big things,” according to David C. Pack. Christ has a price, and that is selling all that you have and then giving it to David C. Pack, who then gives “the most wonderful gift this world could possibly receive.” That is the splendid picture we are expected to believe. No one could possibly accuse the RCG of not using “God’s Money” to spread a gospel message of hope throughout the world, right?

David C. Pack has allegedly concluded the 10-year-old series, stating that he absolutely knows God’s plan and the unfolding timeline of the Mystery of God. He has repeatedly claimed God has shown him from the scriptures the date everyone is waiting for. As of October 2025, there have been 135 dates.

David C. Pack has said that Jesus Christ has sworn by God and all things made in heaven and earth that there is time no longer after he finishes making the Mystery of God clear. This is absolute earth-shattering news for a world ready to be harvested and saved from unprecedented evils. Is the Restored Church of God now prepared to take its extraordinary, precious message and wonderful gift unto the world?

Even after escaping corporate debt by selling off residential properties to his members, it has become painfully evident that there is only one truthful answer: NO!

With Restored Church of God mouthpiece extraordinaire Edward L. Winkfield completely contradicting his boss David C. Pack and God himself with his statements to a reporter late this Spring which has all the makings of “legal” postering, Mr. Winkfield emphatically declared that “this (extraordinary date) is (unequivocally) not something the Restored Church of God teaches or that Mr. Pack is claiming.” He continued, “The Restored Church of God is a group which remains hopeful... more than anything definitive, maybe you could go as far as speculating different things, but I wouldn’t take it as anything beyond that.”

Figuratively taking “it” as anything beyond that is precisely what David C. Pack came to conclude. Although the conclusion of David C. Pack’s 10-year, 10,000-piece puzzle constituted a convergence of a “date that cannot tarry” and a “man that would know and reveal that date,” the Pastor General could see no way forward to carry that message anywhere beyond the closed doors of the Restored Church of God. David C. Pack’s prophetic vision of a “thief,” “time no longer,” and a future “marvelous work and wonder” is a three-wheel brake to a prophetic mouth that has not stopped for a decade. David C. Pack’s antipathy to carrying the gospel message beyond anything or anywhere was summed up recently in this statement to the church: it “would fight prophecy” to go against God’s will to try and spread a message of ultimate truth and to grow the Church of the Living Christ. This is the same man who has concluded that setting over 135 false prophetic dates IN GOD’S NAME is not going against God’s will or fighting prophecy.

With Dave Pack singing the Guess Who’s hit song “No Time” as his new excuse, the “who,” the “what,” and “when,” of the gospel sit only as a trophy on a mantle constituting 10 years of answering nothing except for the fact that it is beyond our imagination that one man could so grossly foul up the divinity of Jesus Christ, His true gospel message and the “day and hour” that no man knows.

Comparing the work of David C. Pack to the work of Jesus Christ is a mind-bending exercise. The work of Jesus Christ in the first century AD was an unstoppable juggernaut. Revealing the Father, showing the Kingdom of God, and ushering in salvation had everything and anything any person would ever need or want to see, and all of it was done in the public eye. Filtering David C. Pack through Jesus Christ never paints a pretty picture.

ExRCG.org does this non declaratively and proves that David C. Pack is a blaspheming anti-Christ, false prophet, and false apostle. The contrast is clear: David C. Pack being against Jesus Christ is not an opinion. It has become fact.

If the conclusion of “The Greatest Untold Story!” is the most precious thing the world would ever see or hear and has at its core the complete plan of God—the gospel message of the Kingdom of God, why does David C. Pack want to hide it from the world? Is this not the treasure and “talent” of God that David C. Pack wants to go and dig in the earth and bury in a field (Matthew 25:14-18)? Speaking of treasure, or that other treasure—God’s Money, why is it that recently, on the very precipice of a predicted arrival of the Kingdom of God, did David C. Pack reveal that his longstanding prayer was for the church to be out of debt? No mention of a longstanding prayer for an open door to the world for God’s treasure to be revealed? No simple, longstanding prayer of thy Kingdom come, thy will be done? Instead, he has been bragging about asset conversion and “booming” financial wealth, both of which were initiated and executed in the “last days” in a dark back room and involved putting widows into debt would certainly conflict with John 5:29: “I am the light of the world, whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.” Burying the gospel (the light of life) from the public and doing scurrilous real estate deals in the face and advent of Jesus Christ is walking in darkness.

The Church has always taught that the start of Christ’s ministry was when He spoke these words: “The time is fulfilled, and the Kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye and believe the Gospel.” According to David C. Pack, the Opening Night of the Feast of Tabernacles on October 6, 2025, will end the almost two thousand years’ wait for the Kingdom of God to arrive. The Kingdom may be at hand, but hardly a soul has repented because they can’t believe what they haven’t heard—at least from the Restored Church of God.

Jesus Christ said in Matthew 9:37-38: “The harvest is plentiful—pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest that He will send forth laborers into His harvest.” David C. Pack wants you to save your prayers for a future time; his immediate prayer is for a “harvest” of debt relief and financial growth.

Jesus observed in Luke 16:16 that from John the Baptist until the present time, the Kingdom of God is preached, and every man presses into it. David C. Pack has chosen not to preach the truth of the Kingdom of God, leaving the world ever more pressing into the Devil’s world.

In John 17:2-3, it says: “And this is eternal life, that they may know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.” David C. Pack has defined and re-defined God and Jesus Christ during the whole ten-year series of messages of The Greatest Untold Story. The world will never hear the true God and Jesus Christ from Dave Pack, because that truth is lost and buried in the thinking of David C. Pack’s mind.

“As thou hast sent me unto the world, even so have I sent them unto the world (John 17:18). I spoke openly to the world (John 18:20) .... for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth.” What a beautiful concluding message from Jesus Christ concerning His public ministry and those He trained. David C. Pack came into the world to piece together the most confounding puzzle known to mankind and then kept within his organization the revelation of it, biding his time in a gated community of yes men who eat and drink at a table of lies. Is that the “truth” the world needs to hear?

The Restored Church of God is a real estate organization doing business in God’s name. It is led by a faithless man using false pretenses and coercion to alter people’s lives. It operates as a temple money changer—exchanging “all” for practically nothing in return. “God’s Money” has been squandered down a giant 10-year-long rat hole. The treasure of God’s true Gospel message is purposely hidden in the depths of Hades, just as David C. Pack has hidden the savior of the world as a silent 5’6” olive-skinned Middle Eastern man in the back dark room of the Temple of God. David C. Pack’s message of strong financial standing is now front and center, while the name of God and Jesus Christ and their extraordinary Gospel message are purposely hidden from the world.

The poor RCG membership never could fully understand the complexity of David C. Pack’s message. They were always buried in papers, timelines, metrics, days, weeks, months, full moons, moeds, rushing, running, absolutes, impossibilities, inarguable suppositions, all while under pressure to pay for their very lives.

God’s will is not being done in the RCG, and Jesus Christ is aghast at the conduct of its leader. The real thief breaking up people’s houses has been exposed. The confounding non-action of one part of the conclusion of “The Greatest Non-Story Ever Told!” is just as concerning as what was revealed in most of the rest of the Series.

A Series that became a bait and switch sham show that always interchanged one error for another error to come to some new and improved assumed truth. A Series that included a scheme to manipulate and coerce the RCG membership into paying “God’s money” for a purpose that David C. Pack either doesn’t or poorly and passively executes. The only real conclusion of “The Greatest Untold Story!” is that David C. Pack stands alone above and apart from all of God, the RCG membership, and the world. David C. Pack enlightened and enlivened himself as the only person indispensable in the Bible and the mediator of 8 billion people’s path to salvation. He satisfied all the desires of his soul by in part shaking sown widows to resolve his longstanding prayer. He rode the real estate market up and cashed out to make himself strong financially. He successfully baited his membership into funding a lifestyle that he himself forbids them to have. He operates with no patience and is faithless in all his actions, while always demanding both from his membership. He embraces hypocrisy like it is a requirement to run and lead a church organization, yet his membership would never come close to such conduct.

In the end, David C. Pack’s 10-year 10,000-piece puzzle was nothing but a self-promotion exercise. The world received nothing. The RCG membership paid an excessive price to have all their expectations continually crushed. There are 10,000 proofs, 10,000 examples, and 10,000 reasons why David C. Pack failed to discern and deliver the most critical piece of the puzzle. Unfortunately, there are far too many men and women lost in the confines of the other 9999 pieces of the puzzle to even know or care.

The now conclusion of the decade-long “The Greatest Untold Story!” gave us the final picture and evidence that each of David C. Pack’s three revealed mysteries of the gospel and the implied fulfillments of each, present a vast gulf between what was stated and what was realized. The potential for David C. Pack’s 10,000-piece puzzle to be one big giant fraud is real. David C. Pack concluded that the “who” at the very end almost entirely revolved around himself. The “what” was a multi-million-dollar financial exchange for a promissory action that, at the end, was deemed undeliverable! The “when” has been framed as unassailable 135 times, but technically and legally, it was always just “hopeful speculation.” If it looks like fraud and it sounds like fraud and it walks like fraud—it is fraud!

Scott Steel/former RCG member

Herbert Armstrong's Fanciful History of the Angelic Realm

Ezekiel 1:15-21

15 As I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel on the ground beside each creature with its four faces. 16 This was the appearance and structure of the wheels: They sparkled like topaz, and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel. 17 As they moved, they would go in any one of the four directions the creatures faced; the wheels did not change direction as the creatures went. 18 Their rims were high and awesome, and all four rims were full of eyes all around.

19 When the living creatures moved, the wheels beside them moved; and when the living creatures rose from the ground, the wheels also rose. 20 Wherever the spirit would go, they would go, and the wheels would rise along with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels. 21 When the creatures moved, they also moved; when the creatures stood still, they also stood still; and when the creatures rose from the ground, the wheels rose along with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels.

Herbert Armstrong's Fanciful History of the Angelic Realm

Herbert Armstrong, founder of the now-defunct Worldwide Church of God and Plain Truth magazine, wrote about the angelic realm:

Mystery of the Ages: The Perfect Creation

In Job 38:4, 7, God is speaking specifically of the creation of this earth. He said all the angels (created “sons of God”) shouted for joy at the creation of the earth. This reveals that angels were created before the creation of the earth, and probably before the material universe. The suns, planets, and astral bodies are material substances. Angels are individually created spirit beings, composed solely of spirit. It will come as a surprise to many to learn that angels inhabited this earth BEFORE the creation of man. This passage from Job implies it.

Mystery of the Ages: Angels on Earth Sinned

It is revealed in Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28, that God placed the archangel Lucifer, a cherub, on a throne on the earth. He was placed there as a ruler over the entire earth. God intended him to rule the earth by administering the government of God over the earth. And the government of God was administered on earth until the rebellion of the sinning angels.

How long these angels inhabited the earth before the creation of man is not revealed. It might have been millions-or even billions-of years. More on that later. But these angels sinned. Sin is the transgression of God’s law (I John 3:4). And God’s law is the basis of God’s government. So we know these angels, apparently a third of all the angels (Rev. 12:4), sinned-rebelled against the government of God. And sin carries penalties. The penalty for the sin of the angels is not death, as it is for man. Angels are immortal spirit beings and cannot die. These spirit beings had been given dominion over the PHYSICAL EARTH as a possession and an abode.

The universal, worldwide sin of the angels resulted in the physical destruction of the face of the earth.

Mystery of the Ages: A Surprising Truth

Now another surprise for most readers. Here is another bit of the missing dimension in knowledge, actually revealed in the Bible, but unrecognized by religion, by science and by higher education.

From verse 2 of Genesis 1 on, the remainder of this first chapter of the Bible is not describing the original creation of the earth. But it is describing a renewing of the face of the earth, after it had become waste and empty as a result of the sin of the angels.

What is described from verse 2 on, in the supposed creation chapter of the Bible, did occur, according to the Bible, approximately 6,000 years ago. But that could have been millions or trillions of years after the actual creation of the earth described in verse 1!

I will comment later on the length of time it might have taken before all earth’s angels turned to rebellion.

The earth had become waste and empty. God did not create it waste and empty, or in a state of decay. God is not the author of confusion (I Cor. 14:33). This same Hebrew word-tohu-meaning waste and empty, was inspired in Isaiah 4518, where it is translated “in vain.” Using the original Hebrew word, as originally inspired, it reads: “For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain [tohu], he formed it to be inhabited.”

Continue now with the remainder of verse 2 of Genesis 1 (the earth had become chaotic, waste and empty): “And darkness was upon the face of the deep [the ocean or fluid surface of the earth]. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness” (verses 2-4).

Satan is the author of darkness. The rebellion of the angels had caused the darkness. God is the author of light and truth. Light displays and enhances beauty, and also exposes evil. Darkness hides both.

The verses that follow in this first chapter of the Bible describe the renewing of the face of the earth, yielding beautiful lawns, trees, shrubs, flowers, vegetation-then the creation of fish and fowl, animal life, and finally man.

Mystery of the Ages: God's Purpose for Angels

So the angel potential was to take over the entire universe-to improve and finish the billions of physical planets surrounding the uncountable stars, many of which are SUNS. The sun in our solar system is merely an average-size sun. Some that we see as stars are actually many, many times larger than our sun. Our solar system, vast beyond the imagination of most minds, is only a part of our galaxy, and there are many galaxies! In other words, the physical UNIVERSE that the mighty God created is vast beyond imagination! How GREAT is the GREAT GOD!

He intended angels to have a vital part in the final creation of the endless universe!

(But God may not have then fully revealed this awesome potential to the angels, for one third of them set out to take it from him by force, without first qualifying.)

For this far-reaching purpose, God established his GOVERNMENT on earth over them. The administration of the GOVERNMENT OF GOD over this globe was delegated to the super archangel-the great cherub Lucifer.

Bear in mind that even the holy angels and archangels-including this super cherub Lucifer-of necessity were endowed with ability to think, to reason, to form attitudes, and to make choices and decisions.

The Incredible Human Potential: What Caused the Angels' Sin?

He had created a beautiful, perfect creation in the earth. He populated it with holy angels - probably millions of them. He put over them, as king, on an earthly throne, the archangel - the cherub Lucifer. Lucifer was the supreme masterpiece of God's creative power as a single separately created Spirit being. He was the most perfect in beauty, power, mind, knowledge, intellect, wisdom, within the almighty power of God to create. God can create nothing higher or more perfect, by instantaneous fiat.

Yet this great being, knowledgeable, trained and experienced at God's own throne in heaven over the universe and the administration of the government of God, had rejected that government, corrupted his way, rebelled against administering or even obeying it. He had led all his angels astray and into the sin of rebellion and disloyalty. 

 

Now consider further. Apparently, the entire universe had been created also at the time of the earth's creation. There is no evidence either in God's revealed Word, nor in science, that any of the planets in endless outer space had been inhabited with any form of life. But God does nothing in vain. He always has a purpose. 

 

Apparently, all such planets in the entire universe NOW are waste and empty - decayed (tohu and bohu) - Like the earth was, as described in Genesis I :2. But God did not create them in such conditions of decay - like our moon. Decay is not an original created condition - it is a condition resulting from a process of deterioration. Evidently if the now fallen angels had maintained the earth in its original beautiful condition, improved it, carried out God's instructions, and obeyed His government, they would have been offered the awesome potential of populating and carrying out a tremendous creative program throughout the entire universe. When they turned traitor on earth, their sin must have also brought simultaneously physical destruction to the other planets throughout the universe, which were potentially and conditionally put in subjection to them. 

 

As God surveyed this cataclysmic tragedy, He must have realized that since the highest, most perfect being within His almighty power to create, had turned to rebellion, it left God Himself as the only being who would not and cannot sin... 

 

God saw that no being less than God, in the God Family, could be certainly relied on never to sin - to be like God - who cannot sin. To fulfill His purpose for the entire vast universe, God saw that nothing less than Himself (as the God Family) could be absolutely relied upon to carry out that supreme purpose in the entire universe. 

 

God then purposed to reproduce Himself, through humans, made in His image and likeness, but made first from material flesh and blood, subject to death if there is sin unrepented of - yet with the possibility of being born into the Divine Family begotten by God the Father.

Unfortunately, Mr. Armstrong's logic and writing style were so flawed that it makes it more difficult to get a handle on precisely what he was teaching. As a consequence, I will follow the order of his presentation of this material and summarize the major points he made in this regard (hopefully, making it easier for the reader to follow along and make sure that I have accurately characterized his teachings.

My summary:

1. Mr. Armstrong taught that the book of Job suggested that angels were created prior to the physical universe, and that they inhabited the earth before humankind was created.

2. He also taught that passages in Isaiah and Ezekiel reveal that Lucifer was placed on the throne of earth over the angelic host. Armstrong went on to teach that these angels sinned, and that the penalty for their sins was not death (because they were immortal beings).

3. Instead, according to Mr. Armstrong, the angels' sin caused the destruction of the earth's surface - forcing God to recreate/renew the face of the earth. He then concluded that God had intended for the angels "to improve and finish" the other solar systems of the universe!

4. Mr. Armstrong taught that Lucifer represented the pinnacle of God's creative power, and that he had been trained at God's throne in heaven. Moreover, Armstrong taught that Lucifer had rejected God's governance and had led a great angelic rebellion against Him!

5. As a consequence of Lucifer's failure, Mr. Armstrong taught that God had decided that only a God-being could be relied upon. Hence, according to Herbert, God then decided to reproduce Himself, and that he would accomplish that through the creation of humankind. In other words, humankind represented PLAN B!

Now that we have summarized Armstrong's teachings about the history of the angelic host, we can begin to take a look at his scriptural prooftexts and critically dissect the flawed reasoning that led to his erroneous conclusions and teachings.

First, this is the actual text from the passage in Job which Mr. Armstrong referenced in his book:

Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind and said: 'Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge? Dress for action like a man; I will question you, and you make it known to me. Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements—surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy? (Job 38:1-7, ESV)

So, we see that the actual context of this passage was God's confrontation of Job's self-righteousness. He was telling Job to put on his big boy pants and answer His questions. "Where were you when I created the earth?" He demanded. In the course of this conversation, we can clearly see that God used flowery and symbolic prose to describe His creation of the earth. As part of this discourse, God revealed to Job that the "morning stars" (angels) sang together, and "all the sons of God" (spirit beings/angels) "shouted for joy."

Now, while it is reasonable to deduce from this passage that angels and spirit beings were created prior to the physical earth and were witnesses to its actual creation, there is NO explicit or implied statement that it was created for them! It is very clearly a stretch to suggest otherwise! Moreover, I defy anyone to point to any place in this passage where it is even remotely suggested that angels lived on this earth before humans! Anyone up for that challenge? If so, please respond in the comments section.

Moreover, before we leave the book of Job, we should note that this is the first mention in the Hebrew Bible of an entity known as "Satan." And, at the beginning of the book, it is made very clear that this Satan still had access to God's throne in heaven at the time that this story took place - ostensibly, many years after the appearance of humans on this planet! (See Job 1:6 and 2:1)

This is especially interesting in terms of this passage from the book of Revelation:

And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth. And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems. His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she bore her child he might devour it. She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne, and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days. Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, 'Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death. Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!'" (Revelation 12:1-12, ESV)

In this passage from the New Testament, it is clearly suggested that this great angelic war happened sometime after the appearance of the Messiah and the institution of his Church, and that this event finally resulted in the Dragon/Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven and losing their right of access to that place! Moreover, this passage clearly suggests that prior to this event that they had a place in heaven!

This, of course, is more consistent with a host of other scriptural passages than Armstrong's teachings on the subject. In the Gospels, angels are always associated with heaven (Matthew 18:10, 22:30, 24:31, 36, Mark 12:25, 13:32, Luke 2:15, John 1:51). Likewise, in the book of Jude, we read about: "the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority but left their proper dwelling..." (Jude 6) And, finally, there is Christ's own statement that he saw Satan "fall like lightning from heaven." (Luke 10:18). We should also note that all of these passages suggest that the angelic host also had/have access to the earth, acting in their capacity as God's servants/messengers!

For instance, we find the Serpent present in the Garden of Eden! Moreover, when we read through the narrative in the second and third chapters of the book of Genesis, it appears that the Serpent did not have any negative connotation associated with him prior to the events with the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. After all, God didn't curse him until after he had deceived Eve and caused her to disobey God! It was only then that God declared: "Because you have done this, cursed are you above all livestock and above all beasts of the field; on your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life. I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel." (Genesis 3:14-15, ESV) Wait a minute! Did that passage suggest that the days of Satan's life were limited?

Let's take a look at those passages from Isaiah and Ezekiel that Mr. Armstrong referenced in his remarks above. In the fourteenth chapter of the book of Isaiah, we read this passage about the "King of Babylon:"

How the oppressor has ceased, the insolent fury ceased! The Lord has broken the staff of the wicked, the scepter of rulers, that struck the peoples in wrath with unceasing blows, that ruled the nations in anger with unrelenting persecution. The whole earth is at rest and quiet; they break forth into singing. The cypresses rejoice at you, the cedars of Lebanon, saying, ‘Since you were laid low, no woodcutter comes up against us. Sheol beneath is stirred up to meet you when you come; it rouses the shades to greet you, all who were leaders of the earth; it raises from their thrones all who were kings of the nations. All of them will answer and say to you: ‘You too have become as weak as we! You have become like us!’ Your pomp is brought down to Sheol, the sound of your harps; maggots are laid as a bed beneath you, and worms are your covers. 'How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’ But you are brought down to Sheol, to the far reaches of the pit. Those who see you will stare at you and ponder over you: ‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms, who made the world like a desert and overthrew its cities, who did not let his prisoners go home?' All the kings of the nations lie in glory, each in his own tomb; but you are cast out, away from your grave, like a loathed branch, clothed with the slain, those pierced by the sword, who go down to the stones of the pit, like a dead body trampled underfoot. You will not be joined with them in burial, because you have destroyed your land, you have slain your people. May the offspring of evildoers nevermore be named! (Isaiah 14:4-20, ESV)

Now, to be clear, there are those who see this passage as comparing the actual human king of Babylon to Lucifer/Satan, and there are those who see this passage as comparing Lucifer/Satan to the human king. Although an important distinction, for our purposes, I believe this argument is academic. However, one chooses to interpret this passage, the termination of the subject's life and power is delineated in the starkest terms imaginable. In other words, there isn't any possible interpretation which ends in the immortality of the individual in question!

Likewise, when we take a closer look at the twenty-eighth chapter of the book of Ezekiel, we are forced to reach a similar conclusion about the subject of the text. The chapter begins with a passage reprimanding the prince of Tyre, which clearly pointed to the human ruler of the city. This is followed by a passage addressed to the king of Tyre - a personage who is clearly extraordinary (not human). We read there:

You were the signet of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle; and crafted in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared. You were an anointed guardian cherub. I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till unrighteousness was found in you. In the abundance of your trade you were filled with violence in your midst, and you sinned; so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God, and I destroyed you, O guardian cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Your heart was proud because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I exposed you before kings, to feast their eyes on you. By the multitude of your iniquities, in the unrighteousness of your trade you profaned your sanctuaries; so I brought fire out from your midst; it consumed you, and I turned you to ashes on the earth in the sight of all who saw you. All who know you among the peoples are appalled at you; you have come to a dreadful end and shall be no more forever. (Ezekiel 28:12-19, ESV)

Are these passages suggesting that Satan and his angels are NOT immortal? Yes, that's exactly what they are saying! Apparently, taking into account the totality of Scripture, angels have the ability to exist indefinitely. They are, however, still CREATED beings! As such, they continue to exist at the pleasure of Almighty God! Notice that, in his first letter to Timothy, Paul wrote that Jesus is "King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion." (I Timothy 6:16, ESV) Apparently, immortality is a God quality/characteristic!

In this connection, we should look again at the book of Revelation and see what John had to say about the ultimate fate of Satan. In the twentieth chapter of that book, we read: "an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while." (Verses 1-3, ESV)

First, notice that this passage is referencing a TEMPORARY imprisonment of Satan - it says absolutely NOTHING about his ultimate fate! Indeed, we find the subject of his ultimate fate addressed later on in the same chapter - after the millennial reign of Christ and his saints. In verse ten, we read that Satan will be thrown into the Lake of Fire, where the Beast and the False Prophet had already been tossed. After this we read of the "Great White Throne Judgment," and that, finally, "Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:14, ESV) In other words, this means permanent/eternal death! There is no resurrection from this one! Everyone thrown into this "fire" ceases to exist forever! This is consistent with Paul's statement to the Romans that the "wages of sin is DEATH," and that eternal life is God's GIFT! Moreover, it is also consistent with John's statement that there wouldn't be any more sorrow, tears, or pain in the New Heavens and the New Earth (Revelation 21:1-4). In other words, the continued existence of ANYONE (including Satan) in a state of torment would contradict this statement!

One more thing before we finish. What was God's purpose for the angels? In the book of Hebrews, we read: 

Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs. For to which of the angels did God ever say, 'You are my Son, today I have begotten you?' Or again, 'I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son?' And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, 'Let all God's angels worship him.' Of the angels he says, 'He makes his angels winds, and his ministers a flame of fire.' (Hebrews 1:1-7, ESV) 

 

Clearly, Christ is/was superior to angels, and they NEVER had the potential to become Sons of God!

Likewise, a little later in the same chapter, we read: 

And to which of the angels has he ever said, 'Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet?' Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation? (Hebrews 1:13-14, ESV) 

Once again, this passage makes very clear that angels NEVER had any part in humankind's potential or purpose! Moreover, in the very next chapter, we read: 

Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery. For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham. Therefore, he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. (Hebrews 2:14-16, ESV) 

In other words, in the words of one of my past posts, God is NOT working on "Plan B!"

Hence, we can see that Herbert Armstrong's cherry-picking of Scripture and faulty reasoning led him to construct a fanciful history of the angelic realm - one that is certainly NOT rooted in Scripture! The Plain Truth is that angels were created to serve God and humankind, and that those of their number who rebelled against this purpose (including Satan) will eventually face complete annihilation!

Posted by Miller Jones/Lonnie C Hendrix

Dave Pack: All Eyes on Pentecost. But.

 

All Eyes on Pentecost. But.

For the past few weeks, attention has been focused on David C. Pack of The Restored Church of God, who announced that his 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization had escaped corporate debt by quietly selling $3.1 million in church-owned real estate to members and widows.

Contrary to the Pastor General’s previous assurances, there will be plenty of time to spend his members’ fear-fueled donation money on “whatever we’d do," and the church employees did benefit financially. It is funny how an end-times urgent push for last-minute Common funds blends seamlessly with biblical fraud.

“You dropped your Financial Pressure Chocolate into my Prophetic Failure Peanut Butter.”

Further details of RCG’s covert business dealings were discussed during HID Production’s Part 14 Interview hosted by Dawn Blue on WCTV in Wadsworth.

Just because the reporting of David C. Pack's teaching dates for the arrival of Jesus Christ and the Kingdom of God paused does not mean his date-setting paused. Because Dave’s gotta Dave.

All eyes in The Restored Church of God watching Passover rolled after April 11, 2025, because Dave’s god got caught up at the Giant Eagle doing more shopping than intended, proving you should always grab the big cart.

Prophetic understanding in RCG takes on the shark’s tooth approach. After one fails, dozens are waiting in line to fill the space. Abib 1 on March 29 came into view. Then, it faded when Passover on April 11 came into view. Then, it faded when Abib 24 on April 21, came into view. Then, it faded when Pentecost on June 1 came into view. Then…oops. No spoilers.

During “The Greatest Untold Story! (Part 571)” on April 19, 2025, David C. Pack taught the Kingdom of God would arrive a few days later.

Part 571 – April 19, 2025
@ 1:05:28 So, Moses and Daniel both point to the 24^th of Abib and the Last Days.

@ 1:17:43 What would I tell you, brethren? How could I stand up here and say, “Well, I don’t know. Maybe it’s not the 24th.” If it’s not, you’re never gonna hear me say that.

@ 1:36:41 I guess you could say it could be the 24th next year. …And man, if it’s not the 24th, as I said before, I will never say that.

David C. Pack dons his magical backup parachute in 3…2…1…

@ 1:36:57 Unless the date passes and something extraordinary happens.

Something extraordinary did happen when nothing happened. Per usual. However, this did not deter David C. Pack from claiming a post-failure victory the following week.

Part 572 – April 26, 2025
@ 56:45 I knew before I went to bed last Saturday night, nothing was gonna happen on Tuesday. I knew it.

A few hours after he taught that the Kingdom would arrive on Abib 24 for 113 minutes on the Sabbath while claiming God’s authority and speaking in His name, David C. Pack blissfully rested his head upon his fluffy pillow, knowing nothing was gonna happen while the brethren of The Restored Church of God believed opposite.

@ 56:51 I realized I’d made a mistake. But it was a type of something. It was a hint of something.

David C. Pack
Even my blunders are prophetic.™

However, it was not all bad news, brethren, because Dave’s ineptitude afforded him the opportunity to rediscover some forgotten recyclables in the bottom drawer.

@ 1:03:54 My goal is to electrify God’s people with the awesome, massive proof of when this is. We’ll inch our way in, and we’ll let the Scriptures and the facts show us.

David C. Pack
Wrong last week, but right this week.™

@ 1:04:09 God would never simply say the date. He’d hafto and would tell us in many different ways. And He does. It must be when He’s done. It’s impossible to miss. Impossible.

@ 1:31:29 I absolutely know Passover is That Day, and I absolutely know Pentecost starts it.

@ 1:31:41 But there were certain mile markers, certain metrics that would come to bear into final fruition when it was time to go. The Series would end, and the mysteries that of the surrounding the Kingdom of God would would all be gone. That’s one of them.

@ 1:37:30 Last year, we got one date right and the other two wrong. We come into this Pentecost, we’ve got two dates absolutely locked up.

@ 1:39:51 I will prove this to the point where it’s airtight…

The Kingdom of God arrives on Pentecost.
June 1, 2025. But.

The transition from Abib 24 to Pentecost was as smooth as oil. For David C. Pack, holding on to Pentecost proved to be less graceful. While it might be painful to watch a juggler lose their rhythm, fumble, and crash, it can be entertaining.

During the Sabbath double-feature, “The Greatest Untold Story!” Parts 573 and 574 on May 3, 2025, the Pastor General showed no signs of wavering on Pentecost. Yet.

Part 573 – May 3, 2025
@ 01:11 God would never just say, regarding the arrival of His Kingdom, “It’s Pentecost.” He wouldn’t do that. He almost does a number of times in ways that are impossible to misunderstand, but He would have to tell us in many different ways, so it's impossible to miss.

@ 02:19 But proving it’s Pentecost is falling over backwards without even being pushed. I mean, it’s just that easy.

Was Pentecost 2025 easier to figure out than Pentecost 2019?

Flashback Part 177 – June 6, 2019
@ 1:29:38 Wow, we're just learning this right now. What are the odds we’re learning it right in front of Pentecost because how long would you want people to know this?

Flashback Part 178 – June 8, 2019
@ 32:00 God waited three years and seven months to explain to me He’s gonna come 60 hours before He does.

A crucial life lesson Grammar and Randy Pack could never successfully teach their middle child was that you cannot claim something is easy while you keep getting it wrong.

Part 573 – May 3, 2025
@ 44:43 …nowhere does God say, “It’s Pentecost.” But He duddn’t have to. He says it in so many ways it’s it’s [chuckles] it’s almost silly to say, “You’ve got to tell me it’s Pentecost.”

Channeling the power of presumption, Dave combines inductive reasoning and talking to make it true to concoct a prophetic soup of goofy ideas that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Kingdom of God arrives on Pentecost.

@ 1:12:31 “Bring the season of refreshing in the midst of the years.” I was never going to get that right until God revealed that years start off Pentecost.

Part 574 – May 3, 2025
@ 53:40 We thought it might come last year, but we weren’t nearly ready. It wuddn’t plain enough. …We had a lot more things to learn.

The brethren of The Restored Church of God comfort themselves with the saying, “Mr. Pack only has to be right once.” But they fail to believe the biblical reality that he will never be right. Nonetheless, all eyes were still on Pentecost 2025.

David C. Pack has been regurgitating familiar phrases since 2013, explaining them with differing interpretations as he revisits the exact same ideas dozens of times.

RCG members muster all their might to refrain from openly rolling their eyes during services when they hear “rushing to call it out,” “midst of the years,” “the days of his voice," and the special crowd pleaser, "a day that cannot tarry.” Let the wincing commence.

Part 574 – May 3, 2025
@ 51:59 Pentecost 2025 is the only date that cannot tarry.

Flashback Part 422 – February 18, 2023
@ 06:52 Adar 1 cannot tarry.

Flashback Part 464 – August 26, 2023
@ 1:25:58 Hebrews 10:37 there speak Paul quoting Habakkuk …speak of a day that cannot tarry. You cannot go beyond a certain date.  …Now, we absolutely know. It’s the Feast of Trumpets.

Flashback Part 470 – September 23, 2023
@ 1:39:55 “He that shall come will arrive and will not tarry.” Guess why He can't tarry. Christ cannot miss the Feast of Tabernacles.

Flashback Part 483 – December 2, 2023
@ 55:49 I said there’s no possible way we can go past Tevet 10. …You can’t go beyond it. It can’t tarry.

Flashback Part 506 – April 9, 2024
@ 34:01 So believe me, believe me, [chuckles] I'm telling you, …you can lock this down as Passover. That's what can't tarry.

Flashback Part 509 – April 20, 2024
@ 15:26 I’ve long wrestled with the kind the kind of delay God would be speaking of when He says, “Though it delay, wait for it. It will it will not tarry.”

@ 55:39 Apparently, He said you do it on Iyar 1. Not Abib 1. Iyar 1.

Flashback Part 550 – December 21, 2024
@ 1:24:40 “Though it delay, wait for it. It’ll surely come and not tarry.” It cannot go past Shevat 1. It’s impossible.

Flashback Part 558 – February 15, 2025
@ 2:00:21 Only Abib truly can’t tarry.

@ 2:03:51 Cannot tarry is its own proof. It has to be the first year of application after learning Abib. Once you learn Abib, it can’t go another year.

Prophetically failing twelve years in a row does not seem to keep David C. Pack from throwing presumption darts at the guessing board, hoping that one day, at least one of them will stick.

Part 574 – May 3, 2025
@ 51:59 Pentecost 2025 is the only date that cannot tarry.

Brethren, it is perfectly appropriate to laugh out loud now.

With David C. Pack’s credibility tank fully maxed out, he concluded Part 574 with more absolutely definitive declarations because Pentecost falls on Sivan 5 this year.

Part 574 – May 3, 2025
@ 1:11:53 That’s one powerful point. If you drive fifth [of Sivan], fifth, fifth, fifth, fifth, and over here you say, Pentecost, Pentecost, Pentecost, Pentecost, all the way through the Bible, and then they line up as the Series is ending, then you're left with you're you you got one of two things is true. It’s a wild coincidence. Or it’s the year it happens. And if it’s the year it happens and doesn’t happen, you’ll never hear me say it’s other than Pentecost.

“Never” arrived at The Restored Church of God in Wadsworth, Ohio, seven days later during “The Greatest Untold Story! (Part 575)” on May 10, 2025.

Part 575 – May 10, 2025
@ 01:02 What if the date is sooner than YOU now think? Everybody’s thinking Pentecost.

Everyone in RCG was thinking Pentecost because Dave told them it was Pentecost for three hours and forty-six minutes. What they did not know was that Dave found a new squeaky toy to gnaw on for a while.

@ 1:19:07 What an amazing time. Iyar 24 is truly a thief event.

The Kingdom of God arrives on Pentecost.
The Kingdom of God arrives on Iyar 24.
May 22, 2025. Oops.

@ 1:27:19 If it [the Kingdom of God] didn’t come on the 24th of Iyar, I’m just gonna give you a personal feeling. I’d hope for Pentecost. But I’d almost believe it’s the 24th of Sivan before I would believe it’s Pentecost or maybe Tammuz 1 or something. But, I would believe the 24^th of Sivan, almost before Pentecost.

@ 1:27:37 And I wouldn’t stop watching till then. So, if you’re wondering what happens if it duddn’t come the24th? Well, then, [chuckles] then then I’d watch till the next 24^th or till it’s impossible that it’s this year.

This is Dave-Speak for Iyar 24 on May 22, being a solid maybe.

@ 1:28:04 But the only day I can see that cannot tarry is half as far away as we thought when we walked into the hall.

Yes. Add Iyar 24 to the day that cannot tarry along with Adar 1, the Feast of Trumpets, the Feast of Tabernacles, Tevet 10, Passover, Iyar 1, Shevat 1, Abib, and Pentecost.

@ 1:28:11 But can I be wrong? Brethren, you’ve watched how hard dates are. Wow, it’s unbelievable. It’s just it’s just really [chuckles] a challenge.

If you survived until May 23, you lived to see David C. Pack fail another challenge. But that did not stop him from trying again the following week, even though he got wishy-washy during Part 576.

Part 576 – May 17, 2025
@ 04:44 We need to clarify the dilemma to the degree that we can that we faced last week between Iyar 24 or Pentecost ten days later. Or potentially, some other date.

@ 15:50 …we’re gonna take some incredible twists and turns today. And I I think I can pretty much put to bed the subject of timing.

RCG brethren must have rejoiced when they heard it was not put to bed last week. Or the week before.

@ 1:24:13 I’m not declaring the New Moon of Sivan to be the day. I’m not declaring the 15th [Sivan] to be the day. But Iyar 24 seems no longer to be in play as a possibility.

Iyar 24 on May 22 was never in play because David C. Pack will never be right about the return of Jesus Christ. Never. God is not guiding him to teach this. The Holy Spirit does not move him to give dates.

Even for the All-Believing Zealots, Part 576 was just 95 minutes of “I’m not sure. But I’ll keep wasting your time” from their human idol.

@ 1:34:19 I’ll keep you posted if I learn any more about timing. But for now, I would tell you we have need of patience. And maybe we're still yet learning more about, "Wow, you have need of patience."

The Kingdom of God arrives on Pentecost.
The Kingdom of God arrives on Iyar 24.
The Kingdom of God arrives at some point.

During “The Greatest Untold Story! (Part 577)” on May 24, 2025, David C. Pack finally lands on the date that really, really, really cannot tarry: the full moon of Sivan 15 on June 11.

Part 577 – May 24, 2025
@ 04:19 But last week, we started looking at the subject of the 15^th [Sivan] or a full moon. …And I wanna confirm today the 15^th.

@ 05:42 So I wanna lay out some really powerful things that emerged once I had a whole week to think about it. And they they are so strong, they leave me completely unable, …and they will leave you completely unable to believe that the Kingdom begins any other date but the 15th [Sivan].

@ 1:01:13 Apparently, God only planned to reveal this extraordinary, mysterious date we’ve battled for almost a decade to find that we’ve now learned only when it was just ahead, and it would surely come with the Kingdom.

The Kingdom of God arrives on Pentecost.
The Kingdom of God arrives on Iyar 24.
The Kingdom of God arrives at some point.
The Kingdom of God arrives on Sivan 15.
June 11, 2025.

Maybe Ed Winkfield should pay attention to Dave’s sermons rather than sleeping with his eyes open.

@ 1:19:10 Anybody beginning to see the day that cannot tarry?

@ 1:43:21 So, there cannot be there cannot be another year. Nobody can believe that.

@ 1:44:52 I’ve not heard an oracle that says it’s absolutely Sivan 15. But I cannot believe otherwise.

@ 1:45:14 And I fully expect, I fully expect Sivan 15.

I fully expect Sivan 15 on June 11, 2025, to be fulfilled as David C. Pack’s Prophetic Failure #129.

In The Restored Church of God, all eyes were on Passover, then on Abib 24, then on Pentecost, then on Iyar 24, and now rest on Sivan 15. That date will be as reliable as all the others. Keep an eye on that.

Marc Cebrian

See: All Eyes on Pentecost. But. 

Is Armstrongism Defined By Its Identity And Authority In A Lineage Of Ministerial Ordinations?

Classic “Armstrongism,” for want of a better term, teaches that the “True Church” is defined in its identity and authority by a lineage of ministerial ordinations (sometimes termed “apostolic succession”). Christ ordained the original apostles, who ordained people, who ordained people, yada-yada-yada, who ordained people, and at least one of those people personally ordained by the laying on of hands Herbert Armstrong. All of these people will have followed “true” Christianity, which means they were seventh-day Sabbatarian. They will not have descended from the supposed Simon Magus counterfeit religion, as Armstrong would elaborate, and at no point will there be a non-Sabbatarian in this lineage. 

This was the explanation given by Andrew Dugger, Jr and CO Dodd in their 1930s book “A History of the True Religion” (originally titled, “A History of the True Church”). Armstrong embraced this concept, and intensified it in the 1950s. See “Must God’s ministers be ordained by the hands of man?” (1960 version). The idea is that to be a “true” Christian minister, one must have been ordained by the literal action of a minister in that succession.

 
This is not my opinion. This is the teaching of your faith tradition. If you found a minister of a small congregation somewhere meeting on Saturdays and perhaps teaching a few doctrines traditionally associated with your faith tradition (Armstrongism), that would not necessarily mean that church is a “true Church of God” (or “branch of the Church,” the terminology preferred by some like the late Roderick Meredith). The minister would had to have been ordained in that discussed lineage. He couldn’t have been, say, ordained as a Presbyterian minister, looked at the Decalogue, and said, “Oh, wait! We should be observing the seventh day, not Sunday!” and then led his congregation to do so. Likewise, lay members of your faith tradition meeting without a minister could not say to you, “Hey, dude! You’re doing the job of a minister. We think God wants you to be a minister,” then all lay hands on you and declare you ordained, and have it be legitimate (in the eyes of your religion). You wouldn’t have ministerial authority, and your “congregation” would simply be a gathering of individual adherents to your faith.

It is this claim of ordinational lineage that gives the ministry of your faith tradition their legitimacy as a binding authority. Thus it is core to the claim of Herbert Armstrong being an “apostle,” “the Elijah,” etc. If that lineage does not in fact exist, then the claim of his authority is false, as is that of the ministry ordinationally descended from him.

Craig White of Australia has done decades of research in “True Church history,” and has sought to demonstrate the alleged linkage going here in North America. Whatever doctrinal commonalities the different Sabbatarian groups may have possessed (and doctrines can be transmitted or developed in the number of ways with no ordinational or organizational succession), he admits failure to find the requisite linkages.

 
From White’s writeup, A Note on the Seventh-Day Baptist Relationship to the Church of God:

Note Point 4: “4. if there is very little linkage between them and there is no evidence of ongoing sequence of laying hands upon subsequent leadership or elders from one era to the next, how does one know it is legitimate?…”

He acknowledges “no evidence” of the ordinational succession, and then asks the resultant question of how to evaluate the “legitima[cy]” of the Armstrongist “True Church” and ministry claim.

And here is the answer: Ezra 2 and Nehemiah 7 include a reference to a number of families claiming Levitical descent at the rebuilding of Jerusalem, but whose names are not listed in a registry of such descendants. This results in them being declared “unclean” and set aside from the functions and privileges of the priesthood (until objective verification could be had). Putting this in jurisprudential terms, this is a “precedent,” an event which sets out how situations like this ought to be handled. The “burden of proof” lies with the people claiming the succession exists. It does not lie with somebody challenging it.

The Armstrongist ministry has long and strongly drawn a direct parallel between itself and the Levitical priesthood. No remotely experienced Armstrongist can deny this with a straight face. That said, I will include a few of my favorite examples to illustrate the depth your religion takes this. The reference to “Levites” in the Deuteronomy 14:28-29 discussion of “third tithe” was used to justify the use of the assistance fund to pay for home renovations of ministers. I even recall a minister at a WCG Feast of Tabernacles saying that it could be used to directly augment ministerial salaries because of this (though he denied it had ever happened). Much of the authority and prestige of the Armstrongist ministry comes from drawing such parallels. A UCG minister after the 1995 event even said that they could call themselves “priests” because of this if they so chose. Another minister, then still in WCG post-1995 but now pastoring for UCG, told me of how at WCG headquarters in Pasadena, since ordained ministry were called “spiritual Levites,” they went full-circle terminology-wise and referred to non-ordained church workers as “PHYSICAL Levites.” Armstrong himself took it so far as to even roll it over into a theory that many of his ministers were descended literally – genetically – from the Levitical line. 

(Here is a comedic story touching on this, involved security at the Ambassador campus. The writer is obviously very discontented with Armstrongism. It seems that security volunteers on the Sabbath were given a technical consideration of being “spiritual Levites” in order to justify their work on the Sabbath. As all good satire is based in truth, it demonstrates just how truly serious the Armstrong faith tradition has taken the supposed Levitical parallel. )

The Levite-“True Church” minister analogies go on and on, and every minister of the Armstrong tradition knows that.

Ergo, following the parallel laid out by the ministry of your faith tradition, it is on them or their supporters to show the lineage exists. And if that cannot be done – and up to now it has not been done – they are to be considered set aside, and their doctrinal and spiritual authority nonbinding.

Despite this, Armstrongist apologists not only seek to avoid the general issue, but actually play dumb on the whole matter. Note the following exchange on LCG’s “Tomorrow’s World” YouTube channel. “TommygunNG” is yours truly.

“HUMAN lineage” (emphasis added). Is that genetic or actional (by ordination)? This purposeful distortion of the issue is shocking in its audacity. Obviously, this being more of an outreach channel, LCG is attempting to hide the reality of their faith from the uninitiated – that is, prospective members. They will think in general terms about a lineage or succession, believing there’s nothing to what I asked, while members can CHOOSE to take it as referring to genetic reproduction in order to deny to themselves the disingenuousness. But in reality, all their muddling does is show the legitimacy of my point, and their own complete lack of a genuine answer. 

To their credit of sorts, at least they were attempting something vaguely substantive. When I asked a comparable question to LCG via Facebook Messenger in 2021, this one specifically regarding who ordained Armstrong himself, their only response was, “Mr. Armstrong explained his ordination in some of his articles, autobiography, etc.” On the other hand, UCG did not reply at all, and COGaWA only replied after a second message noting that they did not reply, with them saying, “Hello! Thank you for your message! We will personally reply to your message as quickly as possible. In the meantime, feel free to check out our website at […]!” Of course, no such “personal reply” ever came.

Even attempting to deny the direct applicability of the scriptural example (and thus losing much of the power and prestige in the ministry gained by the Levitical typology), the precedent sets the parallel in establishing the burden of proof for succession claims. Think about it. If a woman from your past claimed her child was the result of a union between the two of you, you would not simply accept her claim. You would demand affirmative proof that the child was yours. How much more important than the genealogy of a single individual is being sure that the doctrinal authority you believe you are bound to is the correct one? 

Today we have DNA tests to determine physical paternity. But unfortunately, there is no spiritual DNA test that can track ministerial ordinations. People have to rely on verifiable documentation for that. And unfortunately for your religion, the Armstrong faith tradition cannot even determine what elder(s) ordained Armstrong himself, let alone who ordained him/them, etc., back to the original apostles.

Church of God (Seventh Day) history shows that the early ministers of that denomination held ordinations from mainstream non-Sabbatarian protestant churches. CG7’s founders were simply ministers who became involved in the Millerite/Adventist movement and adopted seventh-day Sabbatarianism. Few if any came in as Sabbatarians. The same can be said of most of the lay members. They were not “rebaptized” upon this change in their practice. The whole claim of such a lineage preceding the formation of what became CG7 did not exist until the 1920s. Dugger himself claimed in a 1926 article that his “first insight” on the idea came from an event in 1922:

More here from Richard Nichols’ history (from Friends of the Sabbath)

History simply does not bear the claim out, and in fact points against the claim. Contrary to the impressions given by people like Herman Hoeh, there are no (known) ordinational linkages between them and any sort of Sabbatarian line back to antiquity. A clever and perhaps typical example of an attempt to give this unfounded perception is found in LCG’s booklet on the subject, discussed above in the YouTube screenshots. In a particularly odd case of attention to detail, it attempts to mislead readers into thinking Roswell Cottrell, a Seventh Day Baptist who entered the Millerite/Adventist movement in 1851 and became a leading figure in the movement, was a “long time Sabbatarian minister” at the time of his entrance. The truth is, while his family has a long Sabbatarian history (back to the 1630s) and his father John was a former in SDB minister who entered Adventism the same year, he himself was not apparently ordained until 1854 – that is, already within the Adventist movement, and two years after his father’s death. (Plus, at age 34, he wouldn’t have been a “long-time” anything!) The apparent intent is to imply to the initiated reader that the supposed “True Church” ordinational succession might have entered Adventism through him. Yet without a prior ordination, it obviously could not.

Speculative thought: I have to wonder if the writer actually intended critics to look into the fellow and find his family’s descent from European nonconformist groups often mentioned in “True Church” histories. The problem, though, is that actual attention to detail and a refusal to simply accept their unfounded presumptions defeats the effort. (Good try, though.😁)

And thus, based on the Ezra 2/Nehemiah 7 precedent and the most basic of common sense, your religion’s claim of exclusively being “true Christianity” and that the teachings of your ministry — INCLUDING THAT OF HERBERT ARMSTRONG — ought to be disregarded as authoritative in the sense traditionally held in Armstrongism. This does not mean that you or they are or were wrong about any other given point of biblical doctrine. It’s simply means that you are not bound before God to believe those ministers, and thus are free to study doctrinal questions and arrive at different conclusions. You are not bound to Herbert Armstrong, WCG, or their legacy. 

In a very real sense, I personally do not care what days you rest for worship. I do not care what you believe about the state of the dead. I do not care whether or not you doctrinally allow or prohibit makeup or interracial marriage. I can even sadly tolerate the denial of civic duty among many Armstrongists and Armstrongist fellowships (it is a free country, after all). What I do care about is that people are feeling held to a faith tradition – that is, Armstrongism – which bases its doctrinal authority over adherents on a fundamentally flawed and false premise [fraud, perhaps?]. And thus, I will confront its adherents with the historical reality and the scriptural precedent laid out here. 

I was an Armstrongist (WCG 1988-95; UCG 1995-2000; ICG 2000-01), as you are now. I do know what you believe. I understand your take on John 6:44. I understand how powerful it is believing that you have been given a special opening to knowledge. But I will put this to you: Jeremiah 17:9 - “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it.”

What I present to you is not my opinion or my specific doctrinal conclusions. It is historical fact and scriptural precedent. It is my hope that you will look into this matter and consider it objectively. A deceived man does not know he is deceived. No matter how deeply you intuitively believe something, it can still be wrong. If you look at this objectively, you will understand. 

Contact me on TruthSocial at @LTWalker03 to respond.

Cats, Guns, and National Security

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NOTE: If an Armstrongist minister ever denies the ordinational succession claim and/or its centrality to the defining and operation of their supposed “True Church,” ask him if there is even a serious possibility that his church might possibly recognize as a “true” minister someone claiming to be a minister, but definitely without such succession. If he says that it is at all possible, then the hold on members that the Armstrongist ministry claims is gone. His church will be no better than any other Christian denomination. Anyone will be free to leave their current church and be declared a “minister,” and members will be free to follow him or any other professed minister – or none at all. The Armstrongist minister and his church will have no justification on those grounds for denouncing the new “fellowship.” On the other hand, if he says that here is no chance that the succession-free minister would be so recognized, then he is essentially yielding the point.

Lee Walker