Dave Pack: "I am not qualified to be a minister"

The gift of the internet that  just keeps on giving:

SUBJECT:  Mat 18:15-17, I Tim 5:19-21 vs. Mr. David C. Pack
 
Dear Gentlemen:

We are bringing a matter to you that is quite serious.  As “peers” [you gentlemen] to Mr. Pack, and as ministers, we are presenting a situation to you in light of Mat 18 and I Tim 5 as we have already gone before Mr. Pack with witnesses.

The gravity of the situation is such that the following two things have occurred in the Akron Ohio area as a result of Mr. Pack’s behavior:

· Of all the people hired to work for Restored Church of God (USA), prior to the FOT ’99, only one is left
· Of all the leading men in the Akron OH congregation (those who were in the Deacons & Elders meetings), only one is left 

Again, both of the above situations are the direct result of Mr. Pack’s behavior.  Since the letters of resignation and/or termination (attached) by Darrell Gaug, Joan Thompson and Steve Thompson are quite explicit covering Mr. Pack’s problems, we will only summarize them here – Mr. David C. Pack is causing division within the Body of Christ.

The letters that we wrote were presented to Mr. David C. Pack on Monday, October 11, 1999 as the first step of a Matt. 18:15 process.

Immediately upon receiving those letters, Mr. Pack went to the Gaug’s home.  He [Mr. Pack] effectively escalated this to a review before witnesses (making this the second step in Matthew 18:15-17), by allowing Mr./Mrs. Bill Sheppard Jr., Mrs. Nancy Sheppard, and Mr. Tim Mobley to come over to the Gaug’s home to discuss various problems.  Mr./Mrs. Thompson arrived later that evening.

The end result of the meetings that day was that several of us heard Mr. Pack say the following:

“I am guilty of all points in all three letters.”
 
It needs to be noted that while talking with Mr. Pack during discussions on October 11 about the letters and other allegations, he lied.  Specific examples are: he said he had nothing to do with the selection of who was on the opening and closing prayer lists, song leaders, and speakers at the Feast sites (Mr. Pack is the one that specifically approved the lists prior to sending them to the co-ordinators).  He also denied calling Steve an “unbalanced fool” (note that he started with being guilty of the contents of the letters) to Darrell Gaug and then justified such a thing if he had done it by telling us that Mr. Armstrong had done similarly to Mr. Raymond McNair.  Notice this last thing carefully – every time something was pointed out to him, he pointed to Mr. Armstrong and says he did no more than did Mr. Armstrong in a similar situation.

Mr. Pack asserted over and over in these meetings that we had to forgive him (70 times 7) while continuing to lie about things!

Most of the witnesses (all the leaders of the local congregation) had decided to leave RCG permanently prior to this point.  However, after Mr. Pack had left, it was discussed that we should give him one to two weeks to show fruits of repentance.  The result was his spin doctoring in the updates of October 15 & 22, 1999 placed on the RCG website http://www.restoredcog.org -- copies attached (October 15 Update - October 22 Update).  He then started rumors about different persons.  He claimed that Steve Thompson emailed the world about the problems, but when challenged by Steve, immediately backed down.  He has claimed that Darrell and Joan embezzled funds on the day they left.

Due to the number of lies that Mr. Pack has been caught in, we have begun reviewing several things Mr. Pack has told us over the past several months.  One such topic concerned the events surrounding his departure from Global in early May of this year.  Please find enclosed a letter from what was the Global Church of God, dated May 3, 1999, wherein Mr. Pack was not only disfellowshipped and his employment was terminated, but he was also removed from the ministry for causing division.

He now claims to be the author of the two books, “Except the Lord Build the House” and “Except There Come a Falling Away”.  At one time he said he did not author these.  So Steve Thompson contacted Karen Ray.  What she says is what he use to tell people in Akron -- he had not written those books, but at best was a “co-author.”

We continue to discover things are not the way he “remembers” them.

In addition, we have uncovered a lengthy string of current and former members of RCG and GCG who have been treated in a similar manner by Mr. Pack as we are being.

Meanwhile, during the two weeks that we have sat out of RCG’s services (giving Mr. Pack an opportunity to show fruits of repentance), Mr. Pack’s actions need to be reviewed.  On Monday morning October 11, Mr. Pack said he was responsible for everything in the letters.  By Monday evening, he was only 90% responsible.  By late Thursday evening of that week, he was “maybe responsible” for a small amount.  While doing this, he showed partiality working to get Darrell Gaug and family to come back, while slandering everyone else.

Let us be perfectly clear.  Mr. Pack has been trying to get Darrell Gaug and family to return to RCG, while ignoring ALL the others he has offended this year.

We are now into week three and there have been some pretty wild rumors that have been going around.  Mr. Pack was found to be the source of several of them, such as “Steve Thompson wanted the church to pay him $125/hr,” “Bill Ambrose was writing checks to himself and embezzling funds,” and, “Steve Thompson said that Mr. Pack would file a suit against us in three weeks.”  We (collectively) have been accused of calling and writing members of RCG to get them to leave.

It has occurred to us that Mr. Pack may be spreading these rumors [lies] to give him an opportunity for a preemptive strike so that he may disfellowship and mark all of us “for cause” wherein none of the Akron congregation would ask questions.  This would then discredit us in this Mat. 18 and I Tim 5 situation as far as the Akron congregation is concerned.

Darrell, Joan, and I, therefore, with regret, have no other option other than to bring this to you as the next step in the process of “rebuking an elder” (I Tim. 5:19-21).   Considering Mr. Pack:

· said before witnesses that he does not qualify to be a minister as stated in I Tim. 3:2-7 and Titus 1:6-16, and

· admits he is guilty of all points in the attached resignation/termination letters, and

· considering that he has already been removed from the ministry by Global for cause, we must regrettably request that you take the same action against him as did Global.

 
We understand the gravity of what we are asking, but we believe that this request is necessary to protect the flock from further damage.  Therefore, we must ask that you reply with your decisions and/or actions to be taken no later than November 30, 1999.
 
________________________________     _________________________________
Brenda Gaug                                                 Darrell Gaug
 
_______________________________       _________________________________
Joan Thompson                                             Steve Thompson

List From The Early 1800's On Questioning The Bible

Questioning events and stories in the Bible are not new things from the last 40 or 50 years. These same questions were being asked well over 200 years ago. Is it to be taken literal, metaphorically, or what?  Just going through the list shows how much Armstrongism has taken as literal and by doing so how silly some of it makes them look.

The full list of 61 comments  can be found here:
  Robert Ingersoll: A Few Reasons for Doubting the Inspiration Of Bible




THE Old Testament must have been written nearly two thousand years before the invention of Printing. There were but few copies, and these were in the keeping of those whose interest might have prompted interpolations, and whose ignorance might have led to mistakes.


Second. The written Hebrew was composed entirely of consonants, without any points or marks standing for vowels, so that anything like accuracy was impossible, Anyone can test this for himself by writing an English sentence, leaving out the vowels. It will take far more inspiration to read than to write a book with consonants alone.


Third. The books composing the Old Testament were not divided into chapters or verses, and no system of punctuation was known. Think of this a moment and you will see how difficult it must be to read such a book.


Fourth. There was not among the Jews any dictionary of their language, and for this reason the accurate meaning of words could not be preserved. Now the different meanings of words are preserved so that by knowing the age in which a writer lived we can ascertain with reasonable certainty his meaning.


Fifth. The Old Testament was printed for the first time in 1488. Until this date it existed only in manuscript, and was constantly exposed to erasures and additions.


Sixth. It is now admitted by the most learned in the Hebrew language that in our present English version of the Old Testament there are at least one hundred thousand errors. Of course the believers in inspiration assert that these errors are not sufficient in number to cast the least suspicious upon any passages upholding what are called the fundamentals."


Seventh. It is not certainly known who in fact wrote any of the books of the Old Testament. For instance, it is now generally conceded that Moses was not the author of the Pentateuch.

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Twentieth. If a revelation from God was actually necessary to the happiness of man here and to his salvation hereafter, it is not easy to see why such revelation was not given to all the nations of the earth. Why were the millions of Asia, Egypt, and America left to the insufficient light of nature. Why was not a written, or what is still better, printed revelation given to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden? And why were the Jews themselves without a Bible until the days of Ezra the scribe? Why was nature not so made that it would give light enough? Why did God make men and leave them in darkness -- a darkness that he knew would fill the world with want and crime, and crowd with damned souls the dungeons of hell? Were the Jews the only people who needed a revelation? It may be said that God had no time to waste with other nations, and gave the Bible to the Jews that other nations through them might learn of his existence and his will. If he wished other nations to be informed, and revealed himself to but one, why did he not choose a people that mingled with others? Why did he give the message to those who had no commerce, who were obscure and unknown, and who regarded other nations with the hatred born of bigotry and weakness? What would we now think of a God who made his will known to the South Sea Islanders for the benefit of the civilized world? If it was of such vast importance for man to know that there is a God, why did not God make himself known? This fact could have been revealed by an infinite being instantly to all, and there certainly was no necessity of telling it alone to the Jews, and allowing millions for thousands of years to die in utter ignorance.

Twenty-first The Chinese, Japanese, Hindus, Tartars, Africans, Eskimo, Persians, Turks, Kurds, Arabs, Polynesians, and many other peoples, are substantially ignorant of the Bible. All the Bible societies of the world have produced only about one hundred and twenty millions of Bibles, and there are about fourteen hundred million people. There are hundreds of languages and tongues in which no Bible has yet been printed. Why did God allow, and why does he still allow, a vast majority of his children to remain in ignorance of his will?


Twenty-second. If the Bible is the foundation of all civilization, of all just ideas of right and wrong, of our duties to God and each other, why did God not give to each nation at least one copy to start with? He must have known that no nation could get along successfully without a Bible, and he also knew that man could not make one for himself. Why, then, were not the books furnished? He must have known that the light of nature was not sufficient to reveal the scheme of the atonement, the necessity of baptism, the immaculate conception, transubstantiation, the arithmetic of the Trinity, or the resurrection of the dead.


Twenty-third. It is probably safe to say that not one-third of the inhabitants of this world ever heard of the Bible, and not one- tenth ever read it. It is also safe to say that no two persons who ever read it agreed as to its meaning, and it is not likely that even one person has ever understood it. Nothing is more needed at the present time than an inspired translator. Then we shall need an inspired commentator, and the translation and the commentary should be written in an inspired universal language, incapable of change, and then the whole world should be inspired to understand this language precisely the same. Until these things are accomplished, all written revelations from God will fill the world with contending sects, contradictory creeds and opinions.

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Fifty-first. Can we blame the Hebrews for getting tired of their God? Never was a people so murdered, starved, stoned, burned, deceived, humiliated, robbed, and outraged. Never was there so little liberty among men. Never did the meanest king so meddle, eavesdrop, spy out, harass, torment, and persecute his people. Never was ruler so jealous, unreasonable, contemptible, exacting, and ignorant as this God of the Jews. Never was such ceremony, such mummery, such staff about bullocks, goats, doves, red heifers, lambs, and unleavened dough -- never was such directions about kidneys and blood, ashes and fat, about curtains, tongs, fringes, ribands, and, brass pins -- never such details for killing of animals and men and the sprinkling of blood and the cutting of clothes. Never were such unjust laws, such punishments, such damned ignorance and infamy!


Fifty-second. Is it not wonderful that the creator of all worlds, infinite in power and wisdom, could not hold his own against the gods of wood and stone? Is it not strange that after he had appeared to his chosen people, delivered them from slavery, fed them by miracles, opened the sea for a path, led them by cloud and fire, and overthrown their pursuers, they still preferred a calf of their own making? Is it not beyond belief that this God, by statutes and commandments, by punishments and penalties, by rewards and promises, by wonders and plagues, by earthquakes and pestilence, could not in the least civilize the Jews -- could not get them beyond a point where they deserved killing? What shall we think of a God who gave his entire time for forty years to the work of converting three millions of people, and succeeded in getting only two men, and not a single woman, decent enough to enter the promised land? Was there ever in the history of man so detestable an administration of public affairs? Is it possible that God sold his children to the king of Mesopotamia; that he sold them to Jabin, king of Canaan, to the Philistines, and to the children of Ammon? Is it possible that an angel of the Lord devoured unleavened cakes and broth with fire that came out of the end of a stick as he sat under an oak-tree? Judges vi, 21.] Can it be true that God made known his will by making dew fall on wool without wetting the ground around it? [Judges vi, 37.] Do you really believe that men who lap water like a dog make the best soldiers? [Judges vii, 5.] Do you think that a man could hold a lamp in his left hand, a trumpet in his right hand, blow his trumpet, shout "the sword of the Lord and of Gideon," and break pitchers at the same time? [Judges vii, 5.]


Fifty-third. Read the story of Jephthah and his daughter, and then tell me what you think of a father who would sacrifice his daughter to God, and what you think of a God who would receive such a sacrifice. This one story should be enough to make every tender and loving father hold this book in utter abhorrence. Is it necessary, in order to be saved, that one must believe that an angel of God appeared unto Manoah in the absence of her husband; that this angel afterward went up in a flame of fire; that as a result of this visit a child was born whose strength was in his hair? a child that made beehives of lions, incendiaries of foxes, and had a wife that wept seven days to get the answer to his riddle? Will the wrath of God abide forever upon a man for doubting the story that Samson killed a thousand men with a new jawbone? Is there enough in the Bible to save a soul with this story left out? Is hell hungry for those who deny that water gashed from a "hollow place" in a dry bone? Is it evidence of a new heart to believe that one man turned over a house so large that over three thousand people were on the roof? For my part, I cannot believe these things, and if my salvation depends upon my credulity I am as good as damned already. I cannot believe that the Philistines took back the ark with a present of five gold mice, and that thereupon God relented. [1 Sam. vi, 4.] I cannot believe that God killed fifty thousand men for looking into a box. [1 Sam. vi, 19.] It seems incredible, after all the Jews had done, after all their wars and victories, even when Saul was king, that there was not among them one smith who could make a sword or spear, and that they were compelled to go to the Philistines to sharpen every plowshare, coulter, and mattock. [1 Sam.xiii, 19, 20.] Can you believe that God said to Saul, "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling"? Can you believe that because Saul took the king alive after killing every other man, woman, and child, the ogre called Jehovah was displeased and made up his mind to hurl Saul from the throne and give his place to another? [1 Sam. xv.] I cannot believe that the Philistines all ran away because one of their number was killed with a stone. I cannot justify the conduct of Abigail, the wife of Nabal, who took presents to David. David hardly did right when he said to this woman, "I have hearkened to thy voice, and have accepted thy person." It could hardly have been chance that made Nabal so deathly sick next morning and killed him in ten days. All this looks wrong, especially as David married his widow before poor Nabal was fairly cold."

"COG...is much better at observing Torah"

One of Apostle Malm's acolytes lets the world know the real reason behind Malmism and Armstrongism.  It is better to be a pretend Jew than it is to be a follower of Jesus, the radical rule breaking dude  who ate with and walked with the poor, the disposed, the rejected, the sick and the outcasts of society.  Instead let's worry about eating in restaurants on Saturdays, driving too far in one day, worshiping the moon and other irrelevant  proclivities.

I am new to COG and have been obeying Torah for about two years now. I tried a Messianic church where they sell merchandise on the Sabbath, another Messianic church where they had ladies day out shopping day on the Sabbath and skipped Sabbath services. I tried a 7th day Baptist church where some observed Christmas and some ate pork. Then I found COG which is much better at observing Torah. I do struggle with the eating out in restaurants on the Sabbath and holy days. I don’t struggle myself because I don’t do it. I just don’t understand why it is allowed? I appreciated your comments about not going to the feast at a touristy area. I have changed my feast location for this year thanks to your comments to a more out of the way place. I feel like I’m at the best place I can be right now, but I feel like there is so much more. I really appreciate your blog and your call to a holier lifestyle.