"Another theory refers to a man named Josh
Tatum, who was accused of passing "Racketeer Nickels" in Boston. Mr. Tatum was
unable to either hear or speak, so he never actually said that what looked like
five-dollar gold pieces were really gold-plated nickels -- he just gave them to
clerks and accepted whatever change was given him. No one was able to testify
effectively against him, and he was allowed to go free. Since this happened (if
it happened) in1883, about forty years after josh meaning 'banter' appeared, we
can also discount this theory.
According to the Random House Historical
Dictionary of American Slang, the name Josh was regarded in mid-19th-century
America as a typically rural name. A Josh was 'a country bumpkin' or 'a hick', a
rustic who was rather slow and not too bright. Here's an 1863 quotation from
Hearsill's 1491 Days: "We were 'gobbled up' and taken to the Arkansas Battallion
H'd Q'rs ... Luther says that the only thing he regrets in the affair is to be
arrested by 'Joshes'." Lacking evidence of any other source, it seems likely to
me that josh meaning 'to make fun of' has its origin in this use of the proper
name. Joshes, then, were the ones who were joshed, rather than the
joshers."
Yahoo Answers
The tale may be apocryphal but the
stories are appropriate with regards to the upcoming but now obvious claim
by the Apostle Joshua C. Pack that he IS the fulfillment of the historical
Joshua the High Priest, who along with the political leader and governor
Zerubbabel in the sixth century BCE eventually shamed the people into rebuilding
the Temple in Jerusalem after years of captivity. Of course, this is
ridiculous. Anytime a man sees himself specifically spoken of in the
Bible, it always ends in disaster because, of course, it is not literally
true. Such men do not need to congregations. They need
medications.
It is not my purpose here to quote the
many assumptions, analogies, imaginings, twisted scriptures and loopy comments
of the Apostle Pack. You can pick out the ones you like here http://rcg.org/sep/news.html as
they are very public and very bold. But in the final anal-ysis, the
Apostle Pack is just "Joshin' the Brethren." Detailed analogies based on
ancient texts written for their own times and not projecting ahead thousands of
years do not make truth. I would challenge the Apostle Pack to practice
"in a multitude of counsel there is safety," and bounce his prophetic
meanderings off a few genuine theologians or Old Testament scholars. I am
sure they would be more than interested in hearing his interpretation of the
meaning of the minor prophet Haggai's experience in rebuilding the Temple after
an Israelite return form captivity in the 500's BCE. I'm thinking the
conversation would not last long and when these men returned to their own
students would probably share their experience with their students about "I
talked with this fundamentalist preacher over the weekend who told me he was
Joshua the High Priest and the fulfillment of the mere type Joshua in the minor
prophet Haggai. Let's turn to Haggai for a
minute."
First of all let me get this said and
out of the way. Why do I take such personal exception to David
Pack? I've known him since he was in college. I have worked around
him in adjoining church areas and he was my parents and siblings pastor in
Rochester, NY for a time. My dad spent many hours with Dave visiting as a
Local Elder. We have our own family stories about Dave. Aside from
that, I have come to deeply resent the idea of religious men (not just
Dave) who take titles to themselves and then use it to control people or
convince them of things that ultimately and simply are not so. I
resent the taking of monies not earned by these types of self appointed ego
driven types. Commanding others to give based on fear, guilt and shame ,
as the Apostle Pack is very good at, is not earning one's living. It is
taking it from others and unearned. The Apostle Paul pulled this on
people in I Cor. 9 as well where he said something to the effect that if he
supplied them spiritual things, what's the big deal if he reaped their physical
things. Please don't ever take any analogies between the Apostle Pack and
the Apostle Paul, from me, as a compliment. They both pulled the same
stunts with people, had no intention of cooperating with others and either
were in charge or they didn't play. Bending the rules to suit them was
also a stunt both were often wont to do. In the end Paul had to eat crow
on his grand views about prophecy and his place in it as will Dave.
We have witnessed the title
taking tour of several lone, "I am an Apostle," "I am THAT
Prophet," and "I am A Prophet" types since HWA was also christened an Apostle by
Dr. Hermann Hoeh. Big titles, in my experience, are for small
men. I recall once I was at a gathering in Manchester, Kentucky at a
member home and I was talking with some fellow I didn't know. I
introduced myself and he said, "I'm the Mayor of Manchester", but he said
it in a way that it was clear I was supposed to do something or say
something that was amazed by this fact. I just said, "nice to meet
you." I was tempted to say, "Weren't you just on 60 minutes as
a rather shady character," but I resisted. 60 Minutes ran a segment
on Manchester, KY because it was a place where getting killed or
disappearing was not all that uncommon. I had a deer rifle with a really
BIG scope on it put to my head there by a women that was pretty sure her husband
was not going to be baptized by me anytime soon. "Shoot him, not me," came
to mind. The story of my escape is awesome but I spare you
:)
Another time in KY, the mayor of
Somerset,Ky "bought" five cases of oranges from a church member but did not
pay. The member was nervous to deliver them so I did. It was obvious this
small man, who had a striking resemblance to GTA, was expecting me to give him
the five cases of oranges. Bzzzzzzzzzzzz, thanks for playing now
pay. I sat there and made it equally obvious he owed for the
oranges. He got the hint and since he did not know me nor could figure me
out, he paid. I assume I would not get any good ol' boy favors from him
should I need them in the future. Arrogant little pr.....
In some ways I feel sorry for Dave Pack
and in other ways I am intrigued by his personality and claims. He
has not changed one bit since I knew him in his early 20's. This is who he
is and how he thinks. Whether it be narcissism for which there is precious
little successful treatment or possibility of change or something else, it is a
dangerous path to go down when mixed with religious zealotry and ideas of
special ness, being even spoken of in the Bible. Those who sit in services
hoping that these statements of special ness, both for themselves and of
their Apostle, are going to get hurt. I have listened to more than one
non-member mate talk to me about the damage that is being done to their
children and member partner and everyone's relationship to each
other. The Apostle Dave is building up both a following and an
anti-following who follow him. It is no surprise to me that if you are
uninvited to RCG or show up on the property without permission, getting the
police called on you is pretty much a given. You can't demand a member
destroy the personal family resources and wealth along with retirements and
such and not expect some backlash. The Clarion
Call sermon is still to me one of the most stupid,
bullying and obscene sermons any minister, real or fake ever could have
given. I would love to see that quoted in the Akron Beacon Journal to
balance the community smooze.
At any rate, The (also self
appointed) David C. Pack is Joshin' everyone but it is really not funny.
It is a lie based on an analogy that has no reality in fact. It also is
going to lead to lots of heart ache, resentments, ruined lives and lessons once
again learned about trusting religious leaders who lose sight of their own
humanity and self. While we may poke fun of Dave's statements, ideas
and puff age , it is not really funny because of where it is going to end
up.
We are all able now to look back
at the legacy of the Armstrongs. When we were caught up in it, and please
understand, I believed in the WCG view of the Bible with all my heart until
I didn't, you could not have driven us away. Had anyone told me
what I know myself because I have done the homework to reeducate myself,
back then, I would have simply thought it was Satan endeavoring to get me off
track. I could not be here if I had been there is simply my own
explanation of the whole experience. I may have thought like a child,
and those in the various one man driven splinters still do in my view, but
experience will drive the child out of you if you allow it to. I have
never been sure the Apostle Paul actually wrote I Cor 13 because it is so unlike
him in his other writings. But perhaps the man, seeing that all his bluster and
egocentric rants and ideas were bullshit, woke up and realized what an ass he
had been on many topics and how many people he had not shown love to, which
was the greater goal than promoting failed prophecy. Prophecy frankly
is for fools. Where has "prophecy" ever taken sincere members of most
fundamentalist churches? Into madness or skepticism I'd
say.
Recently, Gary has been running
pictures of the tearing down of the physical campus to make room for more
profitable ventures. I can't say it is not emotional and not painful
to see the pictures. I got married in the Fine Arts Hall and "educated" in
all things Bible in it. It's demise and being hauled away was prophetic of
both. Had someone told me at 18 when I sat there listening to Roderick C.
Meredith teach me the "Harmony" of the Gospels, how I was going to
understand them later in life and all that was going to happen,
well...I would not have believed it though one rose from the dead as they
say.
My experience with WCG reminds me of
the Buddhist explanation for how we often experience
life.
When I was young, mountains were just
mountains, rivers were just rivers and trees were just trees
But when I got older mountains were not
just mountains, rivers were not just rivers and trees were not just
trees
But now that I am old, mountains are
just mountains, rivers are just rivers and trees are actually just
trees.
I suppose if you don't get the meaning
of this, I can't explain it to you.
So....The Apostle Joshua C. Pack is
"Joshin'" everyone with his newly adopted title and calling.
Somewhere along the line he either went from "Watcher" to "Evangelist"
(although he may have skipped this step as I don't recall him calling
himself this), to Apostle and now to Joshua the High Priest. To me it
sounds both terribly silly but also insane. He is this to himself and
I suppose he is this to those who endure the hour upon hour and line upon
line of proof speaking and texting to get the mind to accept this, but it
is still not true. Dave Pack has woven a clever analogy taken from an
obscure book that most Christians never heard of and making it mean what it
never meant. Ministers make scriptures, analogies and stories in the
Bible mean what they never meant all the time. Even the "Matthew" of the
Gospels , is master at this with his 'thus it was fulfilled' passages
about the birth of Jesus, in which he twists and manipulates the
Old Testament to mean what it never meant to tell his story. He does this
because he has no real clue how, when or where Jesus was born. "Luke" of
course never read "Matthew's" account so tells a completely different
story. Both are inaccurate and made up. That is a theological
fact and not at all hard to see if you take an honest look. You know.."sit
before the facts as a little child..." and all.
Those who get "Joshed" by this new
rendition of Haggai's High Priest are going to get hurt.
Simply said, Dave Pack is not an
Apostle in any reality (whatever Apostle means in our day and age), unless
sending yourself counts. Yes, even the Apostle Paul did this too so I guess one
can claim that as the authoritative Biblical example. It's a lousy example
and thousands of men and women have used it to promote their own silly or
dangerous agendas throughout history, but nevertheless, a common way of
separating oneself form the pack...no pun intended. The recent
defecation of Dr. Robert Thiel, formerly of LCG, and selp appointment as a
Prophet is equally as silly. Dave Pack is not any real Joshua the High
Priest. That is his analogy gone haywire. It is merely and
analogy and we all know how analogy minded HWA and WCG could get to claim powers
they did not have and perspectives they really should not have
taught. Being born on eagles wings and Aaron and Miriam contending
with Moses come to mind as analogies pulled out of the hat when needed to
inspire or warn. Korah being told "well Korah, with ideas like that,
really big things are opening up for you," also comes to
mind.
Personality, I am nobody. But I
am not willing, with my background and lessons learned in WCG to give Dave Pack,
or anyone else who makes great claims for themselves, a pass if they are going
to be so public about it. No one stood up to the Armstrongs
when they claimed special things about themselves to stood up to those who made
those claims for them. I sat through many a Gerald Waterhouse spiel
saying nothing when in my head it was a constant "like you can prove that,"
"that's the most stupid thing I have ever heard," or "this guy needs a
woman." The day came when I told him, finally, that when he visited
the area, he caused more problems than he solved and I was no longer going to
answer the questions and concerns he raised in the minds of the
members. I would simply refer them to him to answer. He just looked
at me like I was stepping out of line. It was then I also asked what he
was going to say when HWA died. As I have said before his answer took
me down another few notches towards giving up on WCG. "I'll
believe it after three days and three nights," was his
answer.
I thought he was Joshin'
me.............He wasn't and neither is Dave Pack which is equally as disturbing
and does not bode well for the emotional, mental and spiritual health of
those that allow such foolishness to go unchallenged.
"In utopia.....The mastermind
is driven by his own boundless conceit and delusional aspirations, which he
self-identifies as a noble calling. He alone is uniquely qualified to carry out
this mission. He is, in his own mind, a savior of mankind, if only man will bend
to his own will. Such can be the addiction of power. It can be an irrationally
egoistic and absurdly frivolous passion that engulfs even sensible people. In
this, mastermind suffers from a psychosis of sorts and endeavors to substitute
his own ambitions for the individual ambitions of millions of
people.”
contact Dennis at
DennisCDiehl@aol.com
