Dennis Muses on: Conceiver-Receiver-Perceiver

What if...

Everything We Have and Do Experience is OK

You Can Let Yourself Off the Hook for Your Church Experience?

You Were Never Really Driving the Bus Anyway?

It's Just a Ride...

First, let's be honest.  This site exists and thrives because of our collective experience, the good, the bad and the ugly,  for sometime in the past having "chosen" to affiliate with The Worldwide Church of God, Herbert W Armstrong, Garner Ted Armstrong, and ALL the various religious personalities, both minister and member associated with it.  We are curious group as to what continues to go on with the splits, splinters and slivers of that once minuscule Church in the whole scheme of things. Some take time for thoughtful comments here while the vast majority just read and never say a thing. We assume they are thinking about it at least.  We are at once curious about what else is going on in COGdom  and angry we ever had the experience.  Some seem to grow through as evidenced by their comments and some not so much as evidenced by their comments.  But it is our common experience and the reason this site exists as a place to process our perceived realities. In layman's terms...a place to bitch and moan.

Ultimately, and I can only speak for myself, I want to understand WHY I did, thought, practiced and experienced what I did.   It seems like just a year or two ago I that 18 year old kid  coming on to the Ambassador College Campus to start what I felt in my soul, was my life believing , doing and teaching the absolutely right things about what God, Jesus and the Bible said and meant.  I wanted to know who and what they were, where they came from and what the future would hold.  I was terribly sincere and horribly naive.  I went to AC intending to be a minister when told not to come there for that.  That made no sense to me then but I gave them no choice and ended up being told by powers that be, "for you Dennis, the sky in the ministry, is the limit."   Strange comment to me but I thought I knew what they meant...maybe.  

The kindest and most idealistic years of the experience were the ones in college.  From 1972 when I entered the holo...ministry, to 1998, when I exited the holo...ministry, it was one damn thing after the next.  That was Winston Churchill's definition of history.  One damn thing after the next and so it was all the years of my ministry.  It was NOT what I thought it would be nor ever close to what I thought I had gotten myself into.  In my 20/20 hindsight, I wish I had never heard of it or ever got on that plane to California in 1968 eating my last ham sandwich somewhere over the Grand Canyon in the approach to LAX because, well you know.

Disclaimer:  The Blogmeister, and contrary to what some think it is not myself, can remove this posting if it is not appropriate for the site.   But if left in place, just maybe it can open the hurting and angry mind to a new level of acceptance and perspective and heal.  I know the site is not necessarily about healing from an experience, but it really is because even venting and expressing thoughts is part of the healing process.  Moving past that is an individual choice or maybe not.   I can't imagine anyone that comes to Banned HWA that does not want to heal and get potential answers to:

How could I have been so foolish in my choices?

What was I thinking?

Why did I not speak up when I knew what i was hearing was simply speculation and not fact?

Why did I have to experience this Worldwide Church of God mess in the first place?

Why did I have shit for brains?

Did I waste my life over this?

If only...

I am sure you can add your own thoughts but I believe we get the point.  What's the point in having an experience if you never get to understand what is behind the experience?  Of course, the why is subject to opinion of the experiencer but that is my point in this posting.  

First of all, I know not one in a hundred here will actually watch and consider this series on The Holographic Universe.  That takes an actual investment in time, requires a degree of curiosity about the topic and the absolute need to resist filtering it all through one's past or current perspectives which will manifest itself in sarcastic, cheeky and terribly negative comments which I know never appear on this site.  

"This guy kills me!"

There are really only two explanations that I have for myself over just why did I have to have the Worldwide Church of God experience?   1.  It just unfolded one stupid and ill advised decision at a time in my utter sincerity to know the truth of the Bible and life.  or...  2.  It was and is an experience designed for me and not by me for reasons that can never cross my mind without having had it. Or as I take credit for saying as one my one real life quote:

"Experience is not only the best teacher, it is the only teacher.  Everything else is merely hearsay."

The next level, I am thinking, may not be anymore that I am the one having the experience.  Maybe, just maybe something bigger is afoot here and something else is having an experience through me and through you by the way.   I like that.  It removes a lot of anger, guilt, shame and fear all in one swoop.  You will never understand what I mean unless you watch the whole series and do so seriously and with an unfiltered mind.  I am now 64 years old.  That time from 1968 to the present , as I always heard but never experienced,  passed like a weaver's shuttle to quote the book and then goes out.  I am much seeking the "truth" at this age as as I was at that age.  To think I had found it at 18 and there was no more to know than what was in a Bronze and Iron Age book seems to have been a mistake on my part  TO ME.  To many of you, I know you will say the current view is the mistake or as I was told once..."Your problem Dennis is that you need to give up your intellect, you will and come back to Jesus."   I can't do that.  I am not built that way and to do that would only lead to more anger and depression over past decisions that I now, TO ME, feel are simply no longer necessary to endure and carry around like so many rocks in my backpack.  I'm dropping the whole backpack and going light.  This series on The Holographic Universe has given me a new perspective that was and is sorely needed.  It is not based on myths (though I sense there are some saying, "oh yes they are!), but... whatever.  TO ME means TO ME.  The idea that everyone will ever come to any "oneness" where two or three are gathered together simply is not so in reality.  The concept of "we must all speak the same thing," is equally as ludicrous if one is going to actually seek the truth as that pearl of great price.  We all know "speaking the same thing" merely means that one must agree with the person who encourages that.  Sorry, no can do if I don't.

I found it serendipitous that at some point in the presentation, the narrator says he is was a 62 year old man with this, that and many other things having gone awry in life , sitting in his apartment in Greenville, SC.  LOL...He may have been the guy next door and I never knew.  Perhaps the "Infinite I" is playing with the script to get my attention.  We can hope.

These presentations, (In 5 parts and I will leave it to the reader to find 2-5)  are based on current theories and observations in quantum physics "falsely so called."  I find them compelling and encouraging.  Perhaps you will too and perhaps even produce that rare but very fulfilling "Aha' moment in your own experience that may come only once in a lifetime.   This is truly one of the strangest and yet verifiable "realities" science well done has ever speculated on.  Somehow at a deep level, it resonates because it just seems true to me.  Enjoy, it will take an investment on your part in your time over days perhaps and no one can do that for you. If it threatens your paradigm, ask yourself why and what are you afraid of finding out if it truly is the way things are.

If this topic is inappropriate for Banned, then I'll remove it and we can all sink back down into the mire. However, it deeply inspired me because it is not something that relies on mere faith which is what we use to believe before we get the facts.  Facts seem to trash faith over time.  This seems true to me and has producded a nice shift in my own perceptions about my own experiences in and with the Worldwide Church of God

Bob Thiel Tries To Confront Wallace Smith (LCG Minister) About His Stance That it is NOT a Sin to Watch Football

Yesterday when I posted about Thiel's latest rant against the game of football, I forget to look at one of the other areas on his blog that he posts in.  He just cannot get over the fact that no one cares what he thinks about football.  He is trying as hard as he can to get COG members to stop watching football.  If Thiel is such a failure on football prophecies what's going to happen if he ever says anything true?  That that THAT is ever going to happen......!

He has this to say:

• American professional tackle football is inherently evil

• Encouraging people to be Superbowl fans is a sin

Then Thiel had to check out LCG to see if they were listening to him.  He narrowed in on Wallace Smith, who runs the Thoughts En Route blog.  Wallace seems to have a more level head on his shoulders as compared to many other COG leaders and I enjoy reading some of his postings, though theological we are different. 


Bob Thiel was particularly upset the other day to to find out that Wallace Smith (LCG) said on his blog  in 2012 that watching football was NOT evil. 

Thiel quotes Smith:

02/02/14 a.m. Is American tackle football inherently evil? Should Christians watch American professional football games such as the Super Bowl? Here are some comments from LCG's Wallace Smith:

One of the fun questions that I’ll focus on in this post was this: “Will there be football in the Millennium?” Actually, the conversation during table topics was more broad, asking about sports in the Millennium in general, but with tonight’s Super Bowl event on folks’ minds (which might be going on right now as I type this, come to think of it), football had a starring role in the discussion.

 The question and conversation also reminded me of a question I received from an elderly widow lady in one of my congregations. She is a sweet lady who happens to enjoy football on television. She had read someone preaching something that unnecessarily troubled her and came up to me at services to ask for counsel, worried that watching football might be “evil” in some way. For such a sweet lady in my care to be so worried unnecessarily about something which was not a sin required a response.

At the heart of the question about any particular sport being played in the new society after Christ’s return is this: Is the sport inherently evil? If so, then: no, of course, it would not be played.

 So, is football inherently evil? No, it isn’t. Some might say that “No” is only the right answer for touch football or flag football, as if tackling is somehow the “inherently evil” quality.

Smiths answers seem rational and though out.  Thiel did not think so and was so infuriated he had to call Smith and try to CORRECT him.

Encouraging people to be Super Bowl fans is inherently evil. I believe Wallace Smith's position encouraging people to watch professional American tackle football was wrong and I did actually telephone Wallace Smith about this a couple of years ago (so I did go to him directly about it).

Thiel then has to drag Herbert Armstrong out of the grave to support his viewpoint:

Now, to make the record clear, Herbert W. Armstrong did not write that he approved the watching of professional American tackle football. He denounced the sport. Fifteen years after the bolded quote was published, he personally wrote:

Competition and not cooperation, is the attitude which Satan inculcates human minds. But that does not mean that all sports are wrong or to be banned. The law of God is based on the way of righteousness…The basic law is love, out flowing toward God above all else, and secondarily, “Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.”
To harm the other fellow and to gain by doing so for self is a kind of competition that is wrong. Hostility toward the other is sin…

Wherever a game in sports involves antagonists–in hostile attitude to harm the other and/or to “get” from the other–to get the best of the other then a harmful, satanic and evil attitude enters in, and the sport is evil, not good…

Football (American football) is a violent body-contact sport. It is often played with an attitude of hostility and is dangerous and is fraught with physical injury…Soccer does not embody the same evils. (Plain Truth, July-August 1984)

Theil and many others don't listen too much to what HWA had to say anymore. but do when he supports their erroneous views.

Thiel fails to remember that the church and college were active participants in the Rose Bowl Game for many decades.  Both entities made money off of selling concessions, programs, film parking and ushering on the route with the FULL blessing of Herbert Armstrong and church leaders.  It dumped tens of thousands of dollars into the hands of the church and college every year.

Thiel knows that no one cares for his viewpoint and admits that he will be ignored.  He then has to take a broad swipe to discredit all COG members who dare to watch the game after his warning.  If they do watch it then they are not TRUE members.  Bob said it, so let it be done!

Now Wallace Smith and those who prefer to follow him and his interpretation of Christianity and football will do as they please. But for those who are trying to be Philadelphia Christians, they will not be fans of professional American tackle football. Even the term Philadelphia means 'love of the brethren.'

All I can say is, Brave to Wallace Smith and other more sane COG members who ifnroe Bob!

The most telling thing of all about this topic comes form the following comment by Theil.  Thiel was outraged to find out that Smith had made fun of Thiel's absurd fascination with St. "Malarkey," Nostradamus and other Catholic prophecies.  Thiel's attack against Smith is in revenge for making fun of Thiel's incessant preoccupation with pagan prophecies.

I was not originally going to post anything on this page today about the Superbowl. However, because I ran across a link to something that Wallace Smith wrote about 'heathen prophecies' yesterday that was directed in specific parts against me, that reminded me of him and his past posts about American football. Hence the above post. I consider that LCG's position of fantasy and actual violence contradictory and seemingly hypocritical (see the posts on this page dated 01/14/14 a.m. and 01/23/14 a.m.).

Even as a kid...Dennis mused about Sunday School stories.....and I know you have too

If Jesus is the 'God' of the Old Testament, YHVH Had an Amazing Transformation Between the Testaments

Although it could have been better thought out

Jesus Blesses the Children

15And they were bringing even their babies to Him so that He would touch them, but when the disciples saw it, they began rebuking them. 16But Jesus called for them, saying, "Permit the children to come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.17"Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all."

(Unless this means without question no matter the terror)

Luke 18:15-17

But back in the day...

Hebrews 11

¹⁷ By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, ¹⁸ even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”^[c] 19 Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death.

I also wondered what Isaac might have said in later years when dad asked him if he wanted to get away from it all and go on a little camping trip to the mountains with him.

(I'm not sure Isaac understood it in "a manner of speaking."

Next we have Jephthah 

Hebrews 11

³² And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak,Samson and Jephthah, about David and Samuel and the prophets, ³³ who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, ³⁴ quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. 

And who can forget...Lot and His Daughters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-B57-7NBOM&list=PL85B3072F7B2B6539

The story of Sodom and Gomorrah is not about an entirely gay city in the Middle East.  It is a hospitality tale and the way your put the fear of spying on the town into visiting strangers was to treat them like women, who as we know did not enjoy the equality and respect they have in the Western World today.  The safety of "the angels" under lots protection was much more important to him than any daughter.  And besides, you don't offer your daughters to whole gay crowds, which of course they were not.  

 As a child I wondered what breakfast the next morning must have been  like at Lot's table with Mrs. Lot and the girls.

Not exactly drawing the hearts of fathers to their children...

"Ummm...Dad... Errrrr Lot.... Would you like to explain what that was all about?"  I suspect Isaac had a talk with mom as well who may have had some questions about "what exactly went on up there Abe?"  Mrs Jephthah must have been brain dead. 

II Peter 2:

7and if He rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of unprincipled men 8(for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds), 

Really?  Even as that child in Sunday School and teenage catechism classes these fathers seemed deranged and undeserving of the praise they received in the New Testament but then again Middle Eastern men seem to have a different value system and it must be ok if it was in the Bible because it must be God's value system as well...we were assured.

Just sayin'