Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
Grace Communion International (former Worldwide Church of God) seems to be holding on to some of their old ways. GCI may be in hot water because its Australian branch still advocates for conversion therapy for gay and lesbian members or children of members. For many years now various gay and lesbian members of the Church of God had shared horrific stories about parents who forced them into conversion therapy. Violence and abuse were rampant in these facilities and yet the church pushed people into them. Some were beaten, some were starved, some had testicles removed, some were electrocuted and some kept in cages and allowed no contact with others until they "repented." Various Christian groups around the world now are rebelling against forcing youth and others into these programs. California has passed a law banning the conversion therapy programs in the state. This, however, is just forcing people to send children into camps in Utah and elsewhere.
A school chaplain told an anorexic student she was "hungering for the word of God", according to Greens senator Sarah Hanson-Young.
Senator Hanson-Young used a Senate Estimates hearing to quiz department officials about the Federal Government's school chaplaincy program.
She made the allegation based on information she gathered from a Monash University report, which investigated chaplaincy services provided by Melbourne's Access Ministries.
"This university professor says that she was, quote, 'speaking to a teacher and told that the chaplain at their school, when a student went to her to talk about an issue of anorexia, said she was hungering for the word of God'," the senator told Estimates.
Senator Hanson-Young also sought a guarantee that chaplains who speak in tongues and practise exorcism for healing are not being employed in schools.
And she raised concerns about Grace Communion International, a chaplaincy provider that supports gay conversion therapy.
"This is not really the type of program or ideas, as a parent, I'd like to see being promoted to my child," she said.
Here are many first had accounts of Christian men and women forced into conversion camps and the damage it has caused.
This was sent to us by a reader and is from the Facebook page of a former Philippines member of the Philadelphia Church of God.
Another PCG member has committed suicide due to the obscene and vile "No Contact" policy that Gerald Flurry instituted several years ago in PCG. His various goons around the world wreck peoples lives as they enforce this unchristian lie. This is the 4th suicide by Philippine members in the last few years.
MR. PEDRITO CARA, A PCG MINISTER IN THE PHILIPPINES, CAUSED ERROL CONCEPCION TO COMMIT SUICIDE
Brethren in the PCG,
We are so saddened by the news that came to us through one of your own people from Angeles City who could not hold the cat from coming out of the bag anymore. So we heard that Errol Concepcion committed suicide by hanging himself to death.
We took Errol in our group and provided him all the help we can give: a home, a foster family, encouragement, and our love. But because he misses his family, we tried to turn him over to his grandparents who were acting as his former guardians. The Concepcions were initially reluctant to take him back because of fear of the repercussions of acting against the counsel of Mr. Cara. Eventually, Errol was taken by his grandparents only to bring him to his uncaring relatives in Lucena. With that, his situation became even worse. He was a lot better off when he was still with his foster family in our group. But we are not blaming the Concepcions. They are mere victims of deception in the PCG.
Actually, it was Mr. Cara who made the situation unbearable for the physically sick young man by preventing his being reunited with his family due to his strict and uncompromising implementation of the irrational, illogical, Satanic NO CONTACT POLICY! That same policy has already claimed the lives of two other Filipino PCG members, namely: Mr. Rodolfo Marquez and Mr. Orville Lilangan. Errol Concepcion is now the 3rd victim of the murderous NO CONTACT POLICY of the PCG Ministers in the Philippines.
By God's words, what Mr. Pedrito Cara and his fellow ministers in the Philadelphia Church of God are doing in implementing their NO CONTACT POLICY is MURDER. Notice this:
1Jn 3:15 WHOSOEVER HATETH HIS BROTHER IS A MURDERER: AND YE KNOW THAT NO MURDERER HATH ETERNAL LIFE ABIDING IN HIM. 1Jn 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 1Jn 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. 1Jn 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
Brethren, please use some common sense and let the Holy Spirit of God guide you so you can see what's going on in the PCG with true WISDOM FROM ABOVE!
CAN YOU SAY THAT SEPARATING A VERY YOUNG MAN FROM HIS GRANDPARENTS-GUARDIAN BY THROWING HIM OUT OF THE HOUSE AND CUTTING HIM OFF COMPLETELY AND LETTING HIM LIVE LIKE A PAUPER IN THE STREETS AN ACT OF LOVE? Where in the Bible can you see where it says that you can show your love for your son, daughter or even your parents by CUTTING THEM OFF COMPLETELY like what they have done to Errol Concepcion, Rodolfo Marquez, and Orville Lilangan? How many more ex PCG members will they kill? Who will be the next victim?
Just knowing the 10 commandments of God without truly understanding the intent of His law is useless knowledge! You have to use GODLY WISDOM to see through the lies you have been made to accept and practice like the NO CONTACT POLICY. It is premised on HATRED which is the exact opposite of God's love.
Your unrepentant ministers are all going to be burned in the Lake of Fire. Why should you give your support to the men who are worse than criminals since they are causing people to die the eternal death. That's where they are taking you!
On another entry on the same Facebook page is this story that continues the repercussions of the "No Contact" policy of PCG:
HE SHOULD BE BLACKLISTED FROM ENTERING THE PHILIPPINES
A request should be submitted to the Department of Foreign Affairs and the Bureau of Immigrations to declare Mr. Alex Harrison as "persona non grata" in the Philippines which will mean the inclusion of his name in the list of persons blacklisted from entering the country.
Under his term as Regional Director of the Philadelphia Church of God in the region including the Philippines, we have proofs that the church’s irrational, unconstitutional, and criminal NO CONTACT POLICY has caused the physical death of 3 members namely: RODOLFO MARQUEZ, ORVILLE LILANGAN and ERROL CONCEPCION. Despite the wicked nature of the policy which he would not apply to his own disfellowshipped son Paul Harrison, resulting in the earlier death of Messrs. Marquez and Lilangan, he still encouraged the continuing application of the policy in the Philippines. The death toll from this cultish practice has increased to 3 with the inclusion of Errol Conception who just recently committed suicide by hanging himself to death.
The ministers of the Philadelphia Church of God in the Philippines are going over and above the level of wickedness of their fellows in other parts of the world, as they continue to follow the examples set by John Macdonald whose heart is rotten to the core. The continuing influence of this man has remain strong due to the support of Alex Harrison who took over when the former fled to Australia to avoid his accountability in the death of another PCG member, Liza Fe Columna. Alex Harrison’s right hand man in the Philippines, PEDRITO CARA, is not using his own brain as he just follow the examples of John Macdonald and the guidance of Alex Harrison. PEDRITO CARA has lost his self-respect and considers himself a robot or a yes man in following these men. He has stopped using the guidance of the Holy Spirit in discerning between good and evil.
One day, Mr. Alex Harrison will find himself being held by Immigration officials at the airport and being deported back to his country.
Ever since the United Church of God ruptured with an appalling number of ministers and members jumping ship to join Church of God a Worldwide Association, it has been going overboard on how "unified" it is as a church. The track record over the years has proven otherwise.
UCG struggles to remain relevant as it seeks to draw in members with personal appearance campaigns, billboards and other drastic measures that have all ended up being failures.
COGWA likes to portray itself as a better version of UCG. It is currently bragging that it has a 19% increase in income while UCG struggles. It also seems that Jim Franks is taking a big dig at UCG in the comment below:
On In Accord, 24 May 2018, President Jim Franks described how he spent the Pentecost weekend in North Carolina, attending services on both days, and driving more than 800 miles to hold discussions with all the elders in the four congregations there.
After quoting Acts 4:32, he commented, “Striving for unity is always something we do. We do it because we want to be more effective in preaching the gospel to the world and also caring for the brethren. But you know, we live in a time 2018 when there is a lot of cynicism. I see it and I see the reasons why. We can have an organization that will make a claim, “We’re unified now.” Well sometimes the loud cries of unity are only a mask to cover up division. We’ve seen that as well, and it’s always disappointing, and sometimes disillusioning.”Church of God News
Why is it that the Church of God had to weigh in on every matter under the sun and attempt to provide an answer?
Today the leader of the improperly named "continuing" Church of God, and a so-called "Christian", has weighed in on preAdamaiac humanoid's.
Almost arrested, but not arrested, Elijah, Amos, Joshua, Bitter Bob Thiel has now solved the issue and has laid down the final truth of the matter. Afterall, he is now God's final end-time chosen man, the only one doing a real work and the only one who properly understands scripture.
Scientists admit that all humans have the same mother, though they often consider that mother was older than Eve of the Book of Genesis.
Now, as used by critical historians, “prehistoric time” is said to refer to earliest antiquity nowhere documented in written records. But the Bible records, “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth” (Genesis 1:1). Here is a documented account reaching back to the beginning of the physical universe. “Prehistoric time,” in that sense, is therefore irreconcilable with Scripture. It should come as no surprise, therefore, to learn that biblical passages reveal occurrences prior to the time of man.
If however, we define prehistoric as the time before humans began to write, then we can speak of prehistoric creatures and events.
There were no prehistoric humans prior to Adam. Including others of the ‘genus Homo.’
As modern humans are concerned, the Bible plainly states that Adam was “the first man” (1 Corinthians 15:45), and he named his wife “Eve because she was the mother of all living” (Genesis 3:20). Adam and Eve were therefore the first humans.
While there are fossil records of apes and other creatures that predate Adam, these creatures were not the same as modern humans as far God is concerned.
God gave animals instinct, but not the type of understanding that He gave humans. Many scientists will not admit that there is a spirit in man that God gave.
Pre-Adamic primates, were, at best, like advanced chimpanzees. There were no humans before Adam.
Why would anyone trust the words of a peddler of homoeopathic false remedies and preacher of heretical nonsense be trusted as the final word on prehistoric humans?
Uncertain of the future, the Packs returned to Buffalo.
Weeks later, on a Friday afternoon in August 1985,
they received a telephone call
that would dramatically alter their lives.
It was from Mr. Tkach. Mr. Pack knew instantly that he was not calling with good news. Mr. Harold Jackson, an elderly evangelist and Mr. Pack’s friend, was also on the phone.
“Dave, are you seated?”, Mr. Tkach began.
The field minister said, “No, but I can sit down.”
Mr. Tkach wasted no time: “We’ve heard some complaints. We think there are some lessons you need to learn, so we are sending you to New York City as an associate pastor.”
Mr. Pack could not believe the news. Yet another gross injustice, this time a plain demotion, and it had been stated in such a matter-of-fact manner—a terse notice that they would need to leave Buffalo as soon as possible—within a month. Mr. Tkach offered few explanations as to what were the problems, what lessons needed to be learned, or which brethren were upset.
“I was more shocked at this moment than at any other in my life to that point. I suppose in a way I feared it was coming, but the actual arrival of such an unbelievable injustice was the single most difficult experience in my life—or that of my wife. I had experienced injustice before, but NOTHING of this order. I knew that I had been the victim of a conspiracy of evil thinking, but would only learn later just how great that evil would be.
“What was worse, and what drove the moment indelibly into my mind, was that, while on the call, my 11-year-old son, Robby, ran into the house crying. Both sons had been playing a football game with neighborhood friends in the backyard—and Robby had snapped his collarbone—for the second time! He was simultaneously pleading for my help, while holding his shoulder as the bad news was being received. I did not realize the seriousness of his injury, and told him to go upstairs and I would be with him later.”
Mr. Pack hung up and walked upstairs in a daze to check on his son. Seeing his condition, the parents took him to the hospital. It was in the emergency room waiting area that the reality of the life-altering phone call sank in.
“I understood that New York City had been selected for my assignment because the goal of this maneuver was an all-out attempt to destroy my life. I would have no understanding of the true level of evil I was dealing with until years later. It was only in the apostasy that I fully understood the devil’s role acting through one of his chief agents in trying to destroy my ministry, in trying to get me to give up. Strangely, I was better able at that later point to more completely forgive the man for simply following the alien spirit that was probably always leading him.”
It has been reported many times that New York scared the crap out of Dave. Here he talks about his time in New York having to venture into the "gentile" neighborhoods of some of the church members.
He and Mr. Fahey enjoyed a good personal relationship. Both were experienced ministers and had long conversations in the first months of Mr. Pack’s transfer. The men were also skilled racquetball players. Since neither had lost a match to anyone for a long time, they enjoyed finding a worthy opponent. This also gave them the opportunity to socialize and talk about issues the Church faced.
The pastor also helped the Packs become familiar with New York, and to keep certain things in mind while living there. For example, there was the importance of moving confidently in crowds in certain areas of the city, while also avoiding prolonged eye contact with people.
“Always keep your suit coat open,” he was told regarding visiting members and prospective members. “Never button it. People will think you are the law, and carrying a gun. Almost always, residents of rough neighborhoods assume anyone in a suit is a police detective or FBI agent. Therefore, they will leave you alone.”
But the inevitable could not be avoided in New York. Mr. Pack was robbed almost immediately upon arrival and his car was broken into on several occasions later, often due to loose change or subway tokens left in plain view.
But nothing could prepare one for the shocking and deteriorating environment of Harlem and of the South Bronx.
Later Pack writes:
“In late 1985, just before Mr. Armstrong died, I was demoted by his successor, after he had already systematically stripped away most of my pastorate. This man had deeply resented my relationship with Mr. Armstrong and openly told me so. With Mr. Armstrong dying, he pounced.
“I was sent to New York City and placed under two successive men who were told to give me very little to do—‘teach me a lesson’—‘break me.’ This intensely difficult trial lasted for 4 1/3 years. I went from pastoring almost 1,100 people (some time before my transfer) in a beautiful part of western New York state to a level of responsibility equivalent, in some ways, to little more than what a deacon would do. (This is not intended to denigrate the important service of faithful deacons, but merely to explain my severe reduction in responsibility after having had such special and extensive previous training for pastoral service.) All of this occurred while having to serve in some of the most dangerous neighborhoods on Earth!
Who would have ever imagined that Dave Pack's downfall in the Worldwide Church of God would start with immoral dancing YOU cheerleaders, Joseph Tkach Sr., and not with his abusive tactics. Dave never accepts responsibility for anything.
Beginning of the End!
During district family weekends, congregations would combine for Sabbath services, Saturday night activities and Sunday sporting events.
One activity was watching and judging the performance of each congregation’s cheerleaders’ dance team. The goal was teamwork and unity, and to provide a positive opportunity for teenage girls. Sabbath observance kept most girls from participating in school-sponsored cheerleading.
For many brethren, these performances were a highlight. Sometimes a thousand people gathered to watch the teams perform specially choreographed routines. Each had chosen their own music selection and prepared their routine.
It became evident certain teams had little or no adult supervision. Some mirrored worldly trends, with inappropriate music and overtly suggestive dancing. Yet most ministers took little notice. But Mr. Pack was the responsible host.
After watching a sexually suggestive routine by one squad from Pennsylvania, Mr. Pack was furious. Hundreds of brethren, including families and little children, were exposed to appalling, inappropriate dancing. Some of the squad’s cheerleaders were daughters of the pastor—and they were the very worst offenders. The dancing would have been better suited for a nightclub than a Church youth activity.
But their father was pleased with the performance!
Mr. Pack was left with a choice: overlook the situation or make plain that God’s Church has standards.
“I pulled the pastor aside, and said, ‘That routine was lewd and out of line. It gave other teams the wrong idea about what is appropriate, and it exposed hormone-laden teenage boys to the wrong things. It plants wrong thoughts in minds.’ I was unyielding.
“Instead of listening, the Pennsylvania minister was offended, deciding that his daughters were under attack. He raced home, called Mr. Tkach and complained about my ‘lack of love, understanding and tolerance,’ and how ‘I was missing the big picture.’ Mr. Tkach agreed with the minister, who called and reported this to me. But Headquarters never called me.
“This was not a case where a pastor was unnecessarily ‘gunslinging.’ Actually, host or not, I had a duty to speak up. But I did know the man would be angry and would play politics to protect his daughters. After all, he did think their conduct was fine. A few years later, this man was brought to Pasadena and placed in charge of all youth activities worldwide under the new Pastor General.”
Ironically, the “offending incident” had occurred just weeks after Mr. Tkach’s lecture outlining guidelines on how to hold the youth to higher standards! Music was the centerpiece of the lecture.
In the spring of 1985, Mr. Pack was summarily removed as District Coordinator, being told it was just “time for a change.” Such a move had never previously happened after only one year. The assignment was always for two years. Mr. Tkach was methodically building a case.
Dave Pack says he is like Jesus who was falsely accused. He has been falsely accused by jealous ministers and bitter members over the years. He feels blessed and exceedingly glad as he rejoices to be accused by his accusers.
“Christ described our time as the age of hatred, betrayal, offense and lawlessness (Matt. 24:10-12). Many today use and promote innuendo, rumors, outright lies and other forms of deception to confuse and divide God’s people, and defeat their confidence in Christ’s ability to govern His Church. Christ said, ‘If they have persecuted me, they will persecute you!’
“This means attacks, sometimes vicious, are a fact of life for God’s people, especially its leaders. Should accusers be answered? What spirit motivates them? Did Jesus answer His accusers? Mr. Armstrong was attacked throughout his ministry. Did he answer accusers? What does God’s Word say?
“When one is accused, only two options exist: either respond to the charges—usually triggering an ongoing, and sometimes endless, back-and-forth exchange, accomplishing nothing, or sit silent and passive—which will inevitably be considered either arrogance and proof of guilt, or cavalier and uncaring. So the issue becomes a kind of catch-22, with both options, humanly speaking, carrying big liabilities for the accused. The victim usually cannot win.
“Anyone who has ever been falsely accused can understand the tremendous temptation to ‘set the record straight’—to jump in and bat down falsehoods with the real facts. No one likes to be attacked or accused. I confess that, humanly, there have been times when I was sorely tempted to write a long answer refuting a false accusation. There have also been times when I yielded to this temptation and answered my accusers. It rarely did any good.
“The apostle Paul did not answer his accusers. He recognized that nothing in God’s Word justifies explanations being given to counter persecution and accusations. A Christian’s ‘answer’ to attacks is to continue steadfastly holding to—‘continuing in’—God’s truth.
“I have been forced to accept that many false and outrageous rumors have circulated about me since the beginning of The Restored Church of God, and really long before. Partly as a result, a variety of people have repeatedly ‘prophesied’—and some actively sought—our destruction virtually since our inception. These rumors are ridiculous and some are actually the very opposite of the truth.
“If one were to try to address every accusation, the process would be endless. After each answer had been given, in the end, it would have done no real good. After all, would you not expect that people who invent outrageous charges would also invent clever denials of their victim’s explanations?
“If I took the time to answer every charge against me, from now until Jesus Christ returns, Satan will have effectively rendered me useless as God’s tool, no longer able to serve His people—tied up in an endless process accomplishing very little. But I have learned that if I were able to satisfy such people, who may leave or reject Restored if not given an ‘adequate explanation,’ then if they did receive such an explanation, it would probably only last until the next attack against me or Restored, requiring yet another ‘adequate explanation.’ Besides, doing this is physically and emotionally exhausting, and consumes great amounts of time.
“How do I feel when falsely accused—or when others of our ministers experience this? Jesus taught that ‘blessed are you, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for My sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets…’ (Matt. 5:11-12).
“I have had to learn over the years to feel ‘blessed’ and to ‘rejoice,’ and to be ‘exceeding glad’ in the face of slander and accusation. Why? Because I have had to make many unpopular decisions throughout my ministry. As a result, ‘all manner of evil’ charges have been said against me falsely, effectively forcing me to focus on my reward! I have taught others to do the same. Courageous leaders must always do what is right, not what is popular!
“What might happen if I answered every charge or accusation leveled at me or Restored? The answer is what has happened when people attempt to do this—it generates an even more vicious response from the accuser. I have watched people, whom I knew and loved dearly, literally explode with venom, in ways that were stunning!
“Anyone who answers silly accusations is unwise, because this will usually incite the accuser to invent worse charges. I have learned that to even gently explain the innocence of simple events occurring in this age that were distorted to create an accusation, can cause even more poison to pour from those who brought their false version of what probably never happened at all, or happened very differently from the way they related it. What was the point after this wasted exchange? What would be learned other than nothing good can come of this?”
Dave Pack says he stuck out like a sore thumb, not only because he was tall and married Herbert Armstrong's secretary, but because of his decisive leadership that resulted in him being sent into troubled areas to straighten things out. The problem when he arrived that there were "tares" laying in wait for him in order to "explode" when he reestablished "true standards." This also pissed of the ministers in those areas who resented him. This made his work a real challenge.
Like the 90% of church members who never really got HWA's teachings, 90% of the COG members in the areas he went to rescue never "got" what he was trying to do.
“When you draw a line in the sand, and the ministers around you do not, you stick out like a sore thumb. Some saw me as harsh compared to others. Never mind that I was tall, and from a high-profile family in the Church because I had married Mr. Armstrong’s secretary. I simply could not hide—nor did I seek to. Decisive leadership was necessary. Of course, I could never have imagined that merely administering standards the Bible taught and Mr. Armstrong adhered to could be so problematic and controversial.
“I was sent into these troubled areas time and again where many were ‘lying in wait.’ Tares were everywhere, waiting, ready to explode when true standards were re-introduced. And it seemed surrounding pastors always grew resentful. All of these factors made my ministry a tremendous challenge.
“Cleaning up programs and standards was interesting and rewarding as I saw the many positive effects on people’s lives, but it was also extremely difficult, and wearying, dealing with the constant politics of what later were understood to be, for the most part, a carnal-minded ministry that had grown up throughout the Church. Of course, this was later evidenced as true in the same large percentages among the lay members.
“I just could not always put together the great overall meaning of what I was observing—and enduring—at the time. None of us could know until later how right was Mr. Armstrong when he said, ‘90 percent of you do not get it.’ However, I was sure getting good training for all that would come.”
Just a reminder that categorizing people as "sluts", "whores" and sinners who are somehow different than everyone else and deserving of this or that judgment by the righteous might not be the very best way for encourage people when they need it the most.
Even I still agree that whatever the way of Jesus was , he defined it as easy and the burden of it light.
Hardly what you get from the ministry and far too many members in the Churches of God under the IM-Potentates and UN-IN-Potentates.
Watch it. Let it change the way you talk to and treat your partners, children , friends and all the sinners, whores and losers in the church you know.
Former Minister or not, and I can defend the fact that I have thought this way as a kid long before I ever heard of WCG, and that there are much better ways to treat people who "fail" or "sin" or simply goof up than what I ever heard from the mouth of HWA or the self centered , self absorbed and self ordained pretend ministers and righteous follows of the COG circus masters.
As in politics, the self righteous, judgmental and somewhat or totally narcissistic personalities rise to the top and lack the skills, compassion and love to treat people who fail, as they do as well but won't tell you that..ever. , to meet the standards of "becoming perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect," good luck with that. And don't give me "it means mature." Good luck with that too.
Most who practice such poor people skills and spiritual qualities only change when they get bitten in the ass themselves and given an opportunity to wake up and change their way viewing others as if they are all that different from everyone else. Dave Pack, for example, need only to look his own family to see being righteous and perfect in his own mind didn't work out so well for the clan. Dave has been bitten often in the ass and learned precisely nothing from it evidently.
I've had my own shortcomings in life both within and without the ministry. My own mistakes were born out of regrets about my perception of being stuck in the scandal filled WCG while pastoring some very fine folk that I did not wish to let down or abandon and the stress that went along with it. It was a real challenge. I also meant every bit of what I did or did not do at times. I made personal choices I now regret and some I am glad I did consequences and all. There were times I would have appreciated being treated as I perceived I had treated others, but it didn't happen. The self righteous and unblemished are a hard kind of nut to crack.
I may be a firm believer in evolution and an atheist with regards to my views of Bible origins, politic and problems but I always knew that a pat on the back is only 18 inches from a kick in the ass and works much better. For example...
No, it's not the job of the minister to monitor the sins of the congregation. He's got his own issues and their ain't no 10's in the ministry or administration of any church. The job of the pastor is to en-courage, to en-lighten and provide the safe haven for human beings and everyone is first of all that. It's his job to be human too and willing to admit it. People like that and respond to that much more than the hubris and discipline you see in most of the Churches of God when people fail to meet the standards. I have felt the boot of my superiors on my throat when already in the weeds of depression and anxiety caused by the very men who wore the boots. It didn't make me better and it didn't make me wish to stay even if I had not lost my personal faith in faith itself.
The job comes with having the ability to be a helper of one's joy and not a roadblock to one's journey. The minister's job is to be the best example of one who bares, believes, hopes and endures and helps others to do so when they feel they have failed and seek forgiveness and understanding.
The minister and member job description is this, and if the Apostle Paul actually wrote this, then I'd say it shows the man grew up during his blustering ministry and realized this close to the end of his life after years of his own false prophecies about the end, how everyone else must be and how it all is.
First of all and at the least Paul was able to look at himself. Men like Pack, Flurry and Weinland lack this skill. Paul called it "sin". I'd simply call it being human when trying to be something like "perfect" according to someone else's standards and learning it might not work so well. .
I only wish Paul, for the sake of all to follow would have been more specific about what it was he simply could not stop doing or being.
Romans 7:15-20New International Version (NIV)
15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[a] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it."
Probably one of the NT's more honest human admissions. But he learned evidently what was the most important thing and it turns out not be labeling people, sluts, whores, sinners and losers.
1 Corinthians 13New International Version (NIV)13
If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,[b] but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love."
I hope he did write it. Every minister in the Splits, Splinters and Slivers as well as those who take great titles upon themselves can suck it up and admit just how much of this they lack and no, no God loves us so much he has to turn us over to any Satan for the destruction of the flesh that the spirit might be saved. I don't believe that personally for a minute because that shifts the responsibility and opportunity for the minister or member to practice love, real and unconditional.
Disfellowshiping, Lakes of Fire and the wicked being ashes under the feet of the "righteous" is repugnant to me as it reveals a being or a theology that easily runs out of ideas on how to love, inspire, forgive and show some compassion for a change. It also reveals a God that is unconvincing. A God who hides behind prophets, priests and ministers , mere third party salesmen, to be understood is a weak God and going about it all wrong. I know...the wisdom of man is foolishness with God, but perhaps man's observations about God or God's men of faith and power should not be foolishness with a real God. It might just be considered helpful input. Threatening I know.
I also never found it inspiring that the Egyptians who don't come up to the feast and worship the Hebrew God, won't get rain for their crops and this starve I imagine. Is that stupid or what? Forced obedience and compliance never goes well. What kind of love and loyalty does being forced produce? Forced and very insincere....I suspect. (I don't believe that will actually happen but you get the point).
I find it repulsive that "without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins." What's wrong with a simple "I forgive you." Is that so difficult? What's so hard about "I'm sorry, I was wrong, Please forgive me, I love you too."? doing the trick? Too easy maybe and you don't need to build an entire religious hierarchy to inforce it perhaps.
Sorry. Hitting people when they need a hug has always been an issue to me in the church and out. It is rude, childish and bespeaks a spiritual immaturity that has always plagued the Churches of God in both members and ministry.
