Wednesday, October 5, 2011

Atheism



Here are some comments about atheism that will make you think!

by Born-again Atheist on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 at 11:05pm
This note is dedicated to Christians and theists who wish to argue, debate or discuss religion with Atheists. I am going to help you do that by addressing a few fundamental errors many Christians make in their assumptions about Atheism:

1. "ATHEISM IS JUST ANOTHER KIND OF FAITH." False. "Theism" means belief in at least one god or deity, and the prefix "a-" means "lack of." That's it. All "atheism" means, and has ever meant, is a lack of faith in all gods. To argue to the contrary demonstrates an ignorance of the English language and merely damages one's own credibility.

2. "ATHEISTS ARE 'DARWINISTS' (I.E. EVOLUTIONISTS) AND VICE VERSA." False, on multiple levels. Firstly, "Darwinist" used in this way is merely an insult (like calling a Christian a "Jesus Freak" or "Bible-Thumper.") Secondly, Atheism and Evolution have nothing to do with each other. There are many people who believe in Evolution who also believe in a god, including many Christians. Most Atheists do believe in Evolution, but not because of their atheism. Again, Atheism is merely the lack of a certain kind of belief, and does not imply a belief in anything else. Science, Evolution and Atheism are not all one in the same, and insisting on such things is merely ignorant and insulting.

3. "ALL ATHEISTS ACTUALLY DO HAVE FAITH." True. Yes, I said true! In fact, generally speaking, all people have some kind of "faith," just not necessarily a religious faith. One definition of faith is simply confidence in a person or thing. I have faith that when I sit down, my chair will hold me. This is usually a reasonable faith because it is based on prior experience that can be objectively confirmed (i.e. my chair is holding me as I type this.) Another definition is a general belief in something without evidence for that belief. That is not necessarily religious, either. It is, however, against reason. As anyone can know, not all Atheists are reasonable people, as some merely hate religion out of personal feelings. It is not Atheism but reason that is, by its nature, generally opposed to any belief without evidence (religious or otherwise).

4. "I HAVE PROOF/EVIDENCE THAT MY FAITH IS TRUE." False. If you did have objectively verifiable proof, your belief would no longer be "faith;" rather, it would be a reasonable, evidence-based belief. If you refuse to accept even that fact, then you're functioning on your own personal definitions of words, which only serves to prevent others from understanding you.

5. "ATHEISTS JUST DON'T WANT TO ACCEPT ANY EVIDENCE OF GOD." Maybe. Again, Atheism is merely the lack of religious faith. It is reason that is against forming beliefs solely on faith (religious or otherwise.) If you believe you have actual evidence of a god's existence, most reasonable people will be skeptical, but should want to hear you out. The problem is that you probably don't. Most people who claim to have evidence of a god don't know what "evidence" means. It is not a challenge to Evolution or any other beliefs, because even if you proved all other beliefs wrong, you still haven't even addressed your own belief, let alone proven it correct. This is why reasonable people insist that you "stay on-point." Anecdotes of personal experiences are also not evidence. Even if your story is 100% true, if there's nothing for you to hold in your hand and show for it, then there's no way for anyone else to evaluate the validity of it. No matter how convincing it may feel, a story is not evidence that another story is true. This is also why going back to Scripture to "prove" its validity is also not evidence. Can I prove Odin is real just by using logical-sounding rhetoric to make his story sound reasonable? Or Paul Bunyan? Or even people that did exist, like Abraham Lincoln? Citing a book, telling stories, or quoting other people isn't evidence of anything.

6. "ATHEISTS ACCUSE ME OF BEING IGNORANT/UNREASONABLE OUT OF PREJUDICE." Maybe. All people are given to stereotyping. We're all human and fallible. But these words are not always prejorative (meant to insult). "Ignorant" merely means "without knowledge." We are all ignorant of most things. A reasonable person will agree to that fact. Part of the problem with "reasonable" is that "reason" has many definitions. In the context of a debate on religion, the commonly accepted understanding is that "reason" means forming beliefs based on objective evidence. Claiming that having a religious faith makes one "unreasonable" in the sense that "smart people can't believe in a god" is prejorative, and easy to confuse with simply stating that a religious faith is "beyond reason," that is to say, not based on objective evidence. It's always easy to assume one knows what another person is saying without really listening to him or her, and we are all susceptible to this human flaw. But "assume" makes an "ass" out of both "u" and "me." You can be "reasonable" in all other ways and still maintain a personal faith in your god, which is your human right; and unless you are acting in an unreasonable manner, no one has any standing to claim otherwise. Stand on that fact when dealing with reasonable people, because they should at least be open to it as a possibility, lest they forfeit any right to call themselves "reasonable."

I hope this is of help to anyone who reads it. Some things need to be agreed upon and set aside in this, arguably the most important, debate. If we cannot agree on any of these foundational concepts, then what hope have we for agreeing on anything at all?

Blood Retribution For Sin?



Below is a question that was proposed on the Facebook WCG Survivors page.  He asks a valid question that more and more Christians are also looking into.


Hello, as a person who has committed his mind to being governed by reason, I have a few objective observations about Christianity, and would like to pose questions for the consideration of Christians who also seek rational thought. These questions are NOT meant to offend or bring vitriol, only to spark rational, respectful discussion.

My first question: Why is it NECESSARY for an ALL-POWERFUL god to take human life in RETRIBUTION for sin? Why could that god not simply forgive sin IN THE FIRST PLACE, WITHOUT demanding human sacrifice (OR a substitute for it)?

The interesting thread is here:  Reasonable Questions for Your Consideration

Cutting It Off...

Spanky Meredith and Dr. Bob were captured recently discussing circumcision:


The Prophet Thiel is ecstatic that the California Governor signed into law that circumcision cannot be banned in the state:

Some of Dr. Bob's desire to cut it off is based upon this excuse:

The early 20th century theologian J.J.L. Ratton reported:
The early Church at Jerusalem, retained most of the distinctive customs of the Jews, such as circumcision, kosher meats, the Jewish Sabbath, the Jewish rites, and worship of the Temple. Our Lord, Himself, lived the exterior life of a Jew, even so far as the observance of Jewish religious customs was concerned. The early Church of Jerusalem followed His example. The Jews looked upon the Hebrew Christians in Jerusalem simply as a Jewish sect, which they called the sect of the Nazarenes. (Ratton JJL The Apocalypse of St. John: a commentary on the Greek text, 2nd edition. R. & T. Washbourne, ltd., 1915. Original fromt he University of Michigan. Digitized Jun 12, 2007, p. 4)

But then those dirty, filthy pagan worshiping catholics came on the scene and circumcision was done away with:

Now, it should be mentioned that in the second century, non-Nazarene professors of Christ, like the heretic Justin, did not practice circumcision.

One of the inquisitors in the Middle Ages found that a certain type of “heretic” (in his mind) uniformly observed the Sabbath and sometimes (though apparently not always) observed circumcision (Davis, Tamar. A General History of the Sabbatarian Churches. 1851; Reprinted 1995 by Commonwealth Publishing, Salt Lake City, p. 88).

Thus, it seems that circumcision was (and still is) often practiced by many trying to be faithful Christians. And because of “Judeo-Christian influence” (like from the Bible), this may be why there have always been a relatively high proportion of circumcised males in the USA (though this may be changing).
While the Bible does not list health benefits that come from circumcision, it would make sense that the Creator of the universe would only recommend physical practices that were beneficial for His human creation.
Those damn Catholics!  Where were they when Moses needed them?



Unconverted Heathens Camping On The Big Sandy Campus!!!!! (Revised)



Poor Dr. Bob!  So many things seem to upset him anymore!

The folks that bought the Big Sandy campus are having a camping weekend during the COG's Feast of Tabernacles.  Chiro/naturo/prophetic visionary Thiel is none too happy.  Those spiritually blinded people should be keeping the Feast of Tabernacles instead of camping out!


5 October 2011
ALERT Academy Family Camp Slated Next Week
By REBECCA HOEFFNER
Families will gather at the International ALERT Academy in Big Sandy next week for its 11th annual family camp…
Three guests also will speak at the event.
Dr. Paige Patterson, president of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary…Mark Cahill is author of “One Thing You Can’t Do in Heaven.”…Internationally known speak-er and horse trainer, Lew Sterrett…http://www.tylerpaper.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011310059982
The biblical Feast of Tabernacles begins next week (sunset Wednesday) and that is what used to be observed on the grounds of Big Sandy.  Big Sandy once was a campus of Ambassador College when it was part of the old Worldwide Church of God (the campus was sold several years ago).

But getting back to the main point of what this post is supposed to be about, God’s Holy Days used to be kept at the Big Sandy campus, but are no longer.  We in the Living Church of God believe that God’s Holy Days help better reveal God’s plan of salvation.  A message that tends to not be understood by the Protestant groups.  Simply utilizing the grounds of the Big Sandy campus for a family camp will not restore the truth about salvation to them.

For some reason the last of his comments never made it up here.  Why waste you time camping and roasting marshmallows around the campfire when they could be doing this:

But studying the Bible, observing the Holy Days, prayer, and careful consideration of these matters might.

I can only imagine hell as sitting in an LCG service studying their interpretation of the bible and listening to god-awful sermons on their so called "holy" days. That alone would send any sane person running as fast as they could the other direction!

Tuesday, October 4, 2011

Freedom

This is what it felt like for me to leave Armstrongism. Breaking free, dancing with delight with the amazing world around me!






"The moment you can visualize being free 
from the things that hold you back, 
you have indeed begun to set yourself free."
Unknown