Police Intervene in UCG/COGWA Cattle Wars

Just before the annual Church of God Festival that portrays the millennial peace that the world will be dwelling in, UCG and COGWA went to battle over stolen cattle.

Victor Kubic started it off on October 5, when he announced that cattle that his organization had given to UCG brethren in Zambia had been rustled in September by "former friends and acquaintances" of the "victim-farmers."  That was double speak that  Church of God a Worldwide Association members were stealing UCG cattle.

 The unhappy report that we received and verified related that these cattle were forcibly taken away by former friends or acquaintances of these victim-farmers. These former friends now belong to a Church of God fellowship largely comprised of former members and former ministers of the UCG. It is also our understanding from this report that the leader(s) of that fellowship refuse to intervene to stop the theft of these cattle by their members, nor have they condemned the actions that their members are taking.

More can be found here: Zambia COG Members Stealing Cattle from UCG Members

Then Church of God a Worldwide Association swiftly hit back with a broadside calling Victor a liar.

It is disappointing that I am being drawn away from necessary preparation for the Day of Atonement and the Feast of Tabernacles to respond to the public message which you have disseminated on the Internet and among God’s people. Based on the level of upset and division you are causing within the Body of Christ, you leave me with little choice but to personally respond to your false claims and set the record straight. This is an open letter, and it may be shared with others. While I would normally try to avoid a public response to false allegations such as these, it is necessary to give an answer to your outrageous charges. 

The entire letter can be read here:  Zambia COGWA Calls Out Kubic For False Allegations 

Then the COGWA minister kind of went AWOL and no communication happened with him. (He was probably at the Feast)  The Zambia UCG members went to the police and finally got them to act.  The Police ordered some of the cows to be returned.

Kubic had the following up on his site about this:

Updated October 10, 2011
GREAT NEWS!!  In one of the areas where the cattle given by LifeNets "Pass on the Gift" program was taken, the police ordered that four head of cattle be returned  to owners immediately without conditions.  We have not heard yet from the other area which is some distance away.  We are appalled by the false stories circulating minimizing the huge consequences on poor people.  We are leaving for the Fall Festival in Estonia in a few moments, but wanted to get this update to you.  After the Festival, we will have written reports exact detailing all that happened.  We thank you for your prayers and are thankful for the redemption.

Updated October 14, 2011

Police have ordered that ALL LifeNets cattle that were stolen must be returned. We are just going to wait until after the FOT for the matter to be resolved. Thank you for your prayers to protect our beneficiaries' livelihoods!

Cattle rustling timeline on Kubic's site: Rustling of Members' Cattle in Zambia

I guess none of us should be surprised at this normal behavior between COG groups.  There has been bitterness and acrimonious behavior between all COG's as they have split and split and split over the last 70 some years.  There are well over 600 some splinter groups from the original mother church, "The Radio Church of God."  None have ever worked together in harmony or made any attempt to.  Each considers itself to be "the one true church." and all others are imposter's and heretics.  HWA got that bad behavior ball rolling when he started arguing with COG7Day. With labels like, "they are Sardis," "they are blinded to the truth," "they have turned their back on the truth," etc, the present COG has followed suit and have thrown that wedge up between themselves and others.


Armstrongism has made it standard practice to mock Christianity for it's many different churches, yet Armstrongism is just as fractured and probably WORSE than mainstream Christianity.  At least a broad majority of Christian churches work together in all kinds of ways.  They may not believe the same in different minor areas, but will still work together as brothers and sisters towards a common goal. But not so in Armstrongism.  Accusations fly, bitterness rules the day.  Families are destroyed, marriages broken and friendships destroyed.  Even the right-wing evangelicals hatred of liberals pales in comparison with the Armstrongite acrimony that exists.


With that sad legacy that stains Armstrongism it is no wonder that people are leaving all the splinter groups.  Church attendance is dropping in all COG's.  Flurry's group is down 4,000 from last years Feast.  LCG's is down from last year.  UCG is dramatically down due to the split. 


Armstrongism has no future.  It's various cult leaders are aging out and will be dying off. The youth are leaving in droves. That is certainly some legacy to leave behind.
 

See What Happens WhenYou Mess With "God's" People!

Click to enlarge and enjoy

I don't know who Mary is, but I saw her comment tonight on the COG Halloween Mythology entry.  Her comment brought out the rabid legalists here in all their bitterness.  I have copied one of the posts below just to show how warped their thinking really is:

Mary, or whatever your real name is, you are one disturbed individual who may be in need of some serious psychiatric help. For someone to take posts from a private forum and then put them on a blog out of context for whatever your sick purposes are, is just downright evil. You talk about your pagan Jesus (the real Jesus kept the laws of God and the sabbath and holy days)and grace and all that love, love, love, you are really going to need God's grace for your hateful doings. Perhaps you should read the book of Esther to see what happens to people who mess with God's people. God does look after His own

Pagan Jesus?????  Grace?????  Love, love, love?????  Your bitterness betrays you.

Messing with "God's people"?  Where?  Who are they?

Will Meredith Do The Right Thing?

Harold Camping, has been publicly humiliated twice for predicting the start of the endtimes.   Countless loyal members sold belongings and gave their money to the church.  Children's education and futures were destroyed because of their cultish parents.  Jobs were lost, homes were lost, friendships broken and marriages destroyed.

So where have we heard that all before? 1936, 1938, 1946, 1971, 1972, 1975, 1986, 2014, 2017, 2021.....????  Armstrognism has been one failed prophecy after another.  Herbert Armstrong's teachings, Rod Meredith and Ronnie Wienalnd are currently the three biggest fraudulent end times hucksters out there.  Liars all.

 There is one difference in Camping compared to Meredith and Wienland.  Camping has admitted he was wrong and has resigned.  Meredith admits no wrong because he has never committed a major sin since baptism, so how can he be wrong?  Weinland is, well........Weinland.  A total failure and false prophet..  A lying man  and a lying wife.  The Two Witless Witnesses!  What do the Armstrongites find fascinating about this idiot?


Because he admits his failures he is resigning.  Now the question we need to ask Rod Meredith is, "When can we expect your resignation?"

The Daily Mail reports:

The California radio preacher made a name for himself and Family Radio by claiming the world would end on May 21 - then again on October 21.

Now he has decided to resign, apologising for leading his followers astray and admitting that he finds the whole thing rather ‘embarrassing’.

Mr Camping added that he was wrong to say earlier this year that people who did not believe May 21 was the rapture date were not saved by God.

‘I should not have said that and I apologise for that,’ he said, adding that people should not feel they have been ‘abandoned by God’.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2056215/Doomsday-prophet-Harold-Camping-resigns-apologises-failed-predictions-months.html#ixzz1cWO6lrfV

Capable of Acts of Violence?

I have been called many things over the last 20 years by those who worship the ground HWA walked on.  I have had threats to kill me by cutting my head off with a sword.  I have had groups of cult members pray that God strike me dead with the most painful of diseases.  Weinerdude Weinland has cursed me. I have been cursed 5 years a row that I would be struck dead on Passover night.  As usual, they have all been proven to be liars and fools.

Tonight I had a new accusation leveled against me.  It seems a couple of grumpy people in Yahoo did not like seeing their foolish comments "leaked" and had this to say:

He could possibly be a very dangerous individual - someone who could be capable of committing acts of violence against those who believe in the sabbath, holy days, and other things that go against what he believes.

I really laughed at that foolishness!  How little they know that I am the exact opposite of that and have always been.  I enjoy life too much to even consider such a thing.

The above comments just is further proof on how deranged Armstrongism is in the thinking of some people.  It has always promoted the myth that those who leave the church or abandon HWA's teachings are agents of Satan and incapable of redemption.  In fact the opposite seems to be the case. Almost all people I know that have left Armstrongism are now kinder and more compassionate towards fellow human beings.

I however have never seen more evil and hate filled people as some of the die-hard legalists are.  They are the ones constantly spitting and cursing at those who disagree with them.  The world is going to hell and they are giddy with delight.  They want to see people punished, tortured or to die of pestilence and war. When they walk into the same room you are in it is like they suck the air out of it.


Seventy years of documented failed prophecies and false teaching still have not deterred the die hard legalists from following these con-men.

All these people need to do is stop making stupid predictions, uttering false prophecies, and promoting endless absurd speculations, then the world world leave them alone.  Until that time happens, they will continue to be held accountable for their damaging and false words.

Dennis On: "Thou Shalt Not Kill"

"Thou Shalt Not Kill"

Truly the Most Meaningless Commandment Ever Written

One of the shortest and most simple of the Ten Commandments is "You shall not kill." Pretty simple. "You shall not kill." Any questions?


Well of course there are questions. Even Dirty Harry said "some people need killin'." Killing is what the religions of "the Book" do best when push comes to shove. Both say "You shall not kill," and yet both kill, often and with great enthusiasm at times. Actually all religions that have exclusive ownership of the Deity's truth are killers when they run out of ideas of just how to logically explain the Good News and spread it. What "You shall not kill," tends to mean is "each other," but that also proves, in fact, to be a joke.


The entire Old Testament is filled with the exploits of a god that demands that these special people "do not kill," and yet do nothing but kill all those that get in the way of them and their God. If your last name ended in "kites or ites," you were pretty much going to get annihilated sooner or later by the people of the God who said, "You shall not kill." If you were the wives, daughters, sons and babies of the same, you also had had it...oh and your animals too.


I know Christians, I guess that's what they call themselves, who say that we just need to kill all Islamics and turn Iraq and Iran into a smoking parking lot, for Jesus. These people really do have shit for brains when it comes to discerning the spirituality of their religious heroes. They sing Onward Christian soldiers far too often and with way too much enthusiasm. I hate that hymn. I do love the verse that says "Like a mighty army moves the church of God; Brothers, we are treading where the saints have trod. We are not divided, all one body we, One in hope and doctrine, one in charity." The fact is that "the Church" is far from not divided and they are about as one in hope and doctrine as the Taliban and Hari Krishnas. I'd say than the Baptists and the Taliban, but they are way too much alike in hope and doctrine. Maybe that's why they can't seem to get a grip on this "You shall not kill" thing.


When Moses went up onto Mount Sinai to receive the Ten Commandments (Exodus 19:20), he left the Israelites for forty days and forty nights (Exodus 24:18). The Israelites feared that he would not return, and asked Aaron to make gods for them (Exodus 32:1). The Bible does not note Aaron's opinion of this request, merely that he complied, and gathered up the Israelites' golden earrings. (The reason they had so much gold was because "Thou Shalt Not Steal" was still a few weeks away.) He melted them and constructed the golden calf.  The calf came to mind and was worshiped because this was the time in history when Taurus the Bull was the sign of the zodiac that dominated the Spring Equinox. Religions tend to worship the animal that occupied this sign in terms of astro-theology. This would be around 2000 BC when Taurus was passing out of this position due to the procession of the equinoxes and Aries the Lamb was taking it's place. At any rate, Aaron makes an altar and they all have a party. Bad move.


God decides to kill the people, even though He just wrote "You shall not kill" with his own finger. Moses begged him to rethink this position. (Exodus 32:11); the Lord relented. Moses went down from the mountain, but upon seeing the calf, he too became angry. He threw down the tablets upon which God's law had been written, and broke them. Moses then burnt the golden calf in the fire, ground it to powder, scattered it on water, and forced the Israelites to drink it. After a bit of an interview with Aaron, Moses had "every man slay his neighbor and in that day about 3000 perished." He then picked up the Ten Commandments I suppose and told them "You shall not kill." Go figure.


Great stuff! Moses is standing there with the words "You shall not kill," in his arms and what happens? He goes ballistic, puts the tablets down and no doubt thinks, "we'll discuss this later," and orders the slaughter of 3000 or so people who were afraid after over a month, the man had gotten lost, died or went back to Egypt and forgot to mention it. To make it more personal, "every man was to slay his neighbor." Sure, easy enough.


It doesn't take a rocket scientist, as they say, to see why Fundamentalist Christians, Zionist Devotees and governments that swear they trust in God, get their ideas about what exactly "You shall not kill" means in practical fact. Here are several examples of how "You shall not kill" works.


Kill all who do not listen to their priests. Great idea! Even if they are wrong, no one is going to mention it.

"Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel." (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches, which today means environmentalists, Wiccans and those who go to church by sitting on rocks in rivers and in the mountains to think quietly about what life means to them.

"You should not let a sorceress live." (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Of course, Kill Homosexuals.

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill the nice lady who is a Fortuneteller. That's the job of the Priests and male Prophets.

"A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death." (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Kill the kids who get a bit too angry with issues unresolved. Abraham taking Isaac up to sacrifice him without discussing it comes to mind.

"Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Kill the kids who don't hit the folks, but verbally respond inappropriately. The lamp going out thing is not mom and dad sayin' "night, night" as we might think.

"If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness." (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

Death for Adultery. Please keep in mind here, the issue is taking a man's property, not romance.

"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

And for hormone flushed teens and single people, Death for Fornication. Prominent teens are a great example to others.

"A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death." (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions, which would be most of the planet. Notice, there are other gods in this context, but the jealous god won't tolerate it.

"Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed." (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers, which again would be most humans.

"They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman." (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets, which would have included Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel if you asked the right questions.

"If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through." (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

"...you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God." Deuteronomy 13:13-19.

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night. Oi, How do they figure out who is and who isn't and who collects this information?

"But if this charge is true, and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death... (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions especially if they are you beloved partner or intimate friend.

"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods...kill him... (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

Kill Anyone, but Levites, who Approaches the Tabernacle

"...Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath. No wonder attendance is down.

"...Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

Don't even thing of being curious or wonder if what you are told is true. (How long does it take 50,000 men to look into the ark?

"And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men... (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)

Kill Sons of Sinners. Seems a bit unfair to me, but what do I know. This could make certain government types nervous.

"Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

Kill Men, Women, and Children, which is an oft repeated command.

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone  whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all - old and young, girls and women and little children." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

Generally mean killing. Be sure to kill the kids so the parents can die seeing it happen.

"Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

Makes you wonder about those folks that demand the Ten Commandments be displayed in the State House doesn't it?


Why is it that Judaism and Christianity in particular trumpet their great laws and rules for good living, such as we think we find in the Ten Commandments, and are the worst killers on the planet at times? Why are there a hundred exceptions to the simple truth of "You shall not kill," to where it is a meaningless law? Why has the Christian church murdered and slaughtered it's way into the hearts of good Christians everywhere and somehow it's ok both historically and to this very day? I'd say it has a lot to do with thinking that somehow all of the above examples are still the way to go and how God still wishes things to be. Frankly it's what you get when you mix the new wine in the old wineskin, but they don't seem to find that a reason to stop dong it. Killing others is a pure power ploy on the part of the perverted, it seems to me.


In many ways, the Ten Commandments are not as deeply spiritual truths as some would make them out to be. The reason one is not allowed to worship other gods is because this God is apparently a jealous one and won't tolerate the worship of other gods. Notice it doesn't say there aren't any, it just says worship of them is not tolerated by this jealous God. Jealousy implies competition.


Rules about killing seemed to mean "each other," as noted. Rules about coveting seemed to include women as the property of another man you should not covet and the reason you don't commit adultery. It's not about love. The other woman was property, like the ox and ass. You don't take your neighbors property, well your Israelite neighbor's at least.


Rules about stealing went unheeded wholesale in plundering defeated nations and often it was the young virgins "that had never known a man," that were part of the booty, however the heck you figure that out, don't ask. Israelite men, who no doubt grew weary of killing the good looking women, finally had the laws of killing amended such that if they found a virgin they liked and wanted to play with, they could spare her and enjoy after a thirty day mourning period for her parents that, no doubt, were killed before her eyes. So see, rules can change too. Well we see that in our own government that makes one set of rules for the masses and then exceptions for themselves.


But back to this killing thing. Why does it not mean what it says to the two major spiritualities, so called, that claim ownership of the rules?


For the most part it seems that killing is ok when it is defensive killing. The problem is that in the eye of the killers, all killing is defensive. Killing seems to be ok when a person or a country feels "threatened." Actually there are no "attackers" on the entire planet earth, only "defenders," as noted by Neil Donald Walsh. Everyone who attacks someone is merely defending something and that makes it ok. Whatever "you shall not kill" was supposed to mean, it has no meaning in practical fact or practice.

Personally, much of the injunctions to kill "men, women, children and all their cattle" seems to issue forth mostly from the prophets, who seem to me to have symptoms similar to schizophrenia and rank narcissism for the Lord. I have written elsewhere on the topic of asking whether much of what passes for religious belief and devotion on the part of those that want to extend the Old Testament ways of governing to other, might in fact be mental illness disguised under the garb of devote religion. Actually I believe it often is, including some of the most kill oriented leaders, under "God", in the Bible, both Old and New Testaments. Maybe it's time to declare modern religion to be "Non-Prophet."

Is there a time to kill others? I suppose so. Solomon thought so. But killing seems to be what you do when you run out of other ideas like talking, discussing, tolerating and remembering that all people don't view things the same way as others. Everyone has different experiences and just happens to grow up where they grow up, no one having asked them permission to have it be as it is.


Palestinians kill because they are being pushed out. Israelis kill because they are being pushed at. Iraqis kill because they are being over run and taken advantage of, and Americans kill because they are told it is to protect our freedoms and keep them from coming "over here." Some Christian types kill because you or I won't believe their tall tales about how close they are in touch with the true Church or ways of the true Deity and how out of whack our particular ideas are to theirs.


Close down all religious reactions and motives for a month and see how peaceful the front page reads and how much less anguish, crying and shock over the deaths of loved ones occurs. Just a thought. God save me from your followers, as they say. Makes me nervous to think we have those in government who think there is a bridge between the Bible and religion and secular government instead of a wall. It's SEPARATION of Church and State and Freedom of ALL religion, not just the chosen ones.


Whatever "You shall not kill" means to Christians and those of the "the Book," it really means nothing discernible in the real world of religion. Something is really sick about how devotees interpret their spirituality. Perhaps it's only about power and control of others after all. "He who kills the first one, has obviously run out of sane ideas."


"You shall not kill." Perhaps we need to either practice it and not just recite it, or get a new text with a bit fewer repulsive examples of how it is to be administered.


The Commandment has NO meaning in the real world of politics or religion in fact.

Dennis C. Diehl
DenniscDiehl@aol.com