Dennis On: "They Come...They Go"

They come....They Go

Having been a 26 year pastor in 13 congregations in 5 states, and after having gone through the theological slaughter of the 90's perpetuated upon the membership by "leadership," of the WCG, I have to ask the question, where did all the friends go?


I found myself in an odd situation. I loved the people in my congregations and had many wonderful friendships and friends, I thought.  This final congregation in South Carolina was the toughest by far, even if everything was going well.  They were used to being rewarded by the minister for their loyalty and friends became deacons and included in the lives of all the brethren. There were always three or four waiting and chaffing at the chance to be the real minister.  Ugh!  I didn't work that way so quickly fell afoul of their system. I didn't take deacons on visits to  know and hear the problems of others.  That was not their business and people aren't honest when they feel they are being grilled.  One on one worked for me, because someday I'd be moving on.  At any rate, Church Picnics went from really fun to drama events. We stopped having them.


Some would tell me what the church was really up to at HQ and that this or that really was going to change. Dumb me would call Joe Tkach and simply ask him if A/B or C was true or not.  It was never true according to Joe.  It was ALWAYS true according to what actually came to be. As a result , I'd come back and tell the church all was well and then end up looking like a fool caught between the Administration that lied to me and the members who thought I was stupid and naive.  Of course I was..ha.   Thus, as the baloney in the middle of the sandwich, neither side kept much in touch.  That was my experience with friends.


The only time those who have either stayed with the new and improved version of the Church, which has changed it's name to distance itself from it's own past, or those that have left it for splinter groups that profess to keep the old ways intact, or those that have moved on to greener and more stable pastures, or the disillusioned meet is at funerals or in the final days of some former church friend. Sad isn't it? One has to be dying or dead to find out you had friends after all. But then unless you were having an out of body experience attending your own funeral, you'd not know. It is more comfortable being friends to the dying than the living. And I am sure after I am dead, thousands will once again say that we were friends. Dealing with a dead Diehl is easier than dealing with the real Diehl. :)


When churches implode, as they do, friendships explode. I can count on one hand the friendships that have stayed in tact since my being labeled a minister who "knew a lot about Jesus, but did not know Jesus" and then being terminated.  Don't misunderstand. I was outgrowing the literalism of any church but was in a transtion.  And...I have fingers left over!
It is reckless change and administration of policy that tears friendships apart when associated with churches and the hope the promote in their teachings. Local ministers, who can have their own dictatorial ways, can tear friendships apart as well by causing "friends" to make choices and take sides in endless and stupid disputes or personality cults.


In my own case, I have had more than one former member, whose children I had married and whose husbands I had buried, pass by me at the lobby desk in a hospital where work to make ends meet. I simply do not exist to them because I am no longer one of them, whatever that might mean. I have known minister friends who have drank themselves to death after reckless change confused them and their friends marginalized them for being hurt and confused. One minister even jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge if you can imagine that. That takes planning and a total lack of friends left to help you through. Suicide seems often the mistaken idea that the death of an old idea mistranslates into we think we have to die  It's a permanent solution to a short term problem. . Very sad but I understand it.


So when your church implodes, why do your friendships explode? There are several types of friendships built when we become a part of a church and their dynamics are all a bit different.
First of all, everyone in any particular believes that "we all have to be friends," because, well, we are in the Church. The common bond of similar or same beliefs is what constitutes the friendship. In any other setting, we would not be friends with most of these people as we would really have nothing else in common to hold it together. Thus, when the church implodes, the friendships explode, fall apart and are not salvageable. They are based on being in the common church with a common belief. When that falls apart, that is generally the end of your friendships.


If you leave the church in discouragement, anger or theology fatigue, you are now a seed fallen on bad ground. Those who you leave behind will read about you in Matthew as one of the seeds that fell on hard ground and when trials came alone etc, did not have the ability to survive. Of course, it will be a bullshit explanation, but it makes them feel good to see that they are off the friendship hook with you for being disillusioned, hurt, marginalized or just worn out by controversy. Without the church work, doctrine or goals, you have no friendship. These people will disappear quickly should you ever begin to wake up to the fact that NO church knows all it needs to know about the Bible to be THE one true church. Of course, since no one attends the one false church, you will be labeled, disfellowshipped, avoided and generally cast into the Lake of Fire, Hell or other imagined bad places for the wicked person you are. These are mere not friends that stick closer than brothers, or at least not unless you live in the same house. Since you moved out, you are no brother of theirs.


The second kind of church friends you will cultivate are genuine friends that are friends in spite of church. You have the church in common. You met at church, but you also have kids, ideas and needs in common and develop a friendship outside of just church stuff. Your kids grow up together, make fun of the church and minister together, as do you from time to time and it's just normal. But if you leave the Church or the Church leaves you, they have agonizing decisions to make. If they stay, they might sneak your friendship but if the Church was still the main draw, they eventually will leave you alone, high and dry. They might even leave the church themselves, but if they move on to an even more righteous church than the one they left, and you just became disillusioned and non-committal, they will spend some time getting you to follow them into the truer church, or drop you in time as well. They don't mean it. You're not being theologically tied to any belief and even willing to step outside boxes that lead to different conclusions about religion will leave you without these friends in time. They will feel sorry for you for not moving on to even an more true church in their quest for the one true one. These friends will make you feel icky if you insist on staying around them just because they are all you have left. They will make you feel inferior for your beliefs or lack of them compared to their now new and improved ones, which is always a sign you might need to just forget the friendship. It's not real.

Another group are those that may be somewhat like you in your skepticism and having learned more than the church would have wished you to learn from the whole experience. You'll have all the bitching in common about the past. You will have quality time living in, mulling over and analyzing the past, but when you tire of that and realize that your life is not going forward in the past, these friends will also dry up and blow away.

You may outgrow them and bring your life up into the present while they wallow in the past and you grow tired of it, or you may stay stuck and they move on. Either way, the friendship will dissolve in time, as friendship based on sharing only a bad experience is doomed in the long run. You'll know the "friendship" is over when they keep sending you updates on the goings on the past Church and you don't care. In the world of blogging and email, you may have attracted these types of friends because of your common disastrous experience, but you have never even met these people in real time and would not know them if they sat next to you. But you were friends, until you weren't.


I am writing this while listening to the great hymns of the Church. Me...Mr. Skeptical, listening to the old hymns. I get teary because it provokes the chemistry of a more simple time, when I was younger and didn't know I was going to learn and experience all I was going to with regards to Church, ministers, theology, politics, behavior, humans and reality.
Wait a sec, It is Well With My Soul is playing...gotta get teary...ok, back.


Seems a shame church friends who have suffered through the ridiculous and reckless folly of those who are determined to not think change through, have to meet only at funerals of the wounded and now dead friends of the past. Maybe if someone had been a real friend, in spite of Church, they would still be alive.


Well, I guess that answers in part, where did they all go? People who hop from truer church to truer church in pursuit of the TRUE Church build friendships based on being a member of that particular church or set of beliefs. That is one kind of friendship but they also tend to dissolve quickly when conditions in that church change. That has been my experience in spades.
While the Bible says "a friend loves at all times", that has proven elusive to say the least among the survivors of the WCG debacle.



In reality, I  find that many who say they love you or are you best friend don't tell you it's conditional.

Dennis C. Diehl
DenniscDiehl@aol.com

Armstrongism Guilt

While this is not about Armstrongism, it has similar parallels.  Catholics are always the first to talk about Catholic "guilt."  They know what it is like to have ingrained in you over the years all the rules and regulations that revolve around Catholicism.  Then when you leave it, even though you know it is not important anymore or you may not even believe it any more, you have guilt pangs when you do something you think you shouldn't

The same can apply to Armstrongism.  We have our own version that could be called "Church of God Guilt", or "Armstrongism Guilt."  When you leave the cultic mentality and move on, every once in a while you stop and think, "...what if it was all true...", "what if eating bacon really is wrong," "what if we were supposed to keep the holy days," etc.

If my perusal of COGlet web sites and groups I run into that every once in a while with my self.  When you start reading  the writings of adamant people you get wrapped back up in the subtleties of what they are saying and then you begin to doubt things that you know are blatantly wrong.  That question of "What if..." pops into your head.  Because of that it is easy to see why so many still remain entrenched in the unholy mess of Armstrongism when they realize much of it is not true.  That "What If..." has enslaved them

 Hat tip to Van Robison for this.

The serious consequences of childhood religious indoctrination

by mirandaceleste on September 6, 2011

The concept of “Catholic guilt” has become a cliche, a joke, a truism. But it’s real. For many of us who experienced Catholic childhood religious indoctrination, Catholic guilt is a pernicious and inescapable burden with serious lifelong repercussions. It clings to us, a dark spectre of our pasts, a cruel and vicious voice whispering to us, reminding us of the lessons of our childhood: that we are unworthy, that we cannot do anything right, that we do not deserve to be happy, that we are dirty tainted sinners who must constantly punish ourselves and atone for our sins, and that we are nothing. Nothing. 

Read the rest of her entry here.

Sinful UCG Kids Break Sabbath By Playing Corn Hole

A writer sent in the following comments to Apostle Malm the other day concerning the UCG split and complaining about how "liberal" UCG has become.  While many of UCG's ministers are "snakes-in-the-grass" who worked behind the scenes to form UCG while on WCG's payroll, I do have to hand it to them that they have eased up on controlling the lives of members with unnecessary 'sabbath' regulations.

In spite of that, far too many of UCG's leaders are liars and manipulators.  The same applies for many of the UCG ministers who jumped ship to COGWA.  COGWA is in no better shape ethically than UCG is.

Far too many of the splinter group leaders want to bury their members under an incredible amount of useless legalistic rules and regulations that they "claim" God has commanded.

There is absolutely nothing that could ever get me to set foot in a UCG church, but of all the COGlets out there UCG at least as a small ray of light trying to seep into it.

But even more amazing is the absolute venom dripping because UCG kids played a simple game of corn hole.  It's not as if the kids were playing a ruff game of tackle football or soccer, they were tossing bean bags!  

Even worse is that those sinful reprobates in UCG were wishing each other Happy New Year on Facebook. 

Damnable sinners all!  

How stupid can Armstrongites get?

Many of the men who went with UCG came to LCG (then GlobalCG) headquarters to check out whether they wanted to go with them in the 90s.    I did get the distinct impression that if they didn’t get offered a highly esteemed position or enough dollars, they would just continue taking their paychecks from WCG and wait for UCG to form.

The inception of UCG from the get-go was “underground” most of the men took their paychecks from WCG until they were completely formed! Those ministers allowed their assistant pastors to preach unchecked and their flocks were scattered while they preached smooth things and didn’t take a stand! THEY TOOK THEIR PAYCHECKS and waited! That is how UCG formed!

From the perspective of those in GCG in Pasadena at the time, it sure looked like they didn’t want to join with GCG b/c they wanted more money. 

They stayed so long, they were completely suspect doctrinally!! Certainly suspect as to being true shepherds, they let their flocks get totally devoured!

 MANY of the ministers that came with GCG lost everything first, didn’t get promised anything b/c GCG didn’t have a HUGE following…it was a step of faith!! Most of the men had to go and get jobs…they weren’t hired on first thing!

So whatever happens now to UCG seems silly…isn’t UCG reaping what they sowed from their very inception!!?? It makes me sad to see another split…but they had the biggest group and they first set up a doctrinal team to reinvent what they believed, which took years…when they did FINALLY get on the stick and get a program or some work going…you have to admit it’s a total waste of time and money!! They aren’t warning ANYONE, their program is a complete sham!

Of all the churches of God I’m familiar with they are SO LIBERAL! I have seen it all! Basically it’s been some of the most wretched excuses for breaking the Sabbath, they keep it like most people keep Sunday!

In Lafayette they did a bbq ON THE SABBATH while the kids played corn hole…it might as well have been Sunday! SHOCKER, I was aghast! Gary Antion was there as well as Victor Kubik! Mr. Antion’s sermon was on self esteem…most of the material was from secular sources or so it seemed. He had a handout! The sad thing was that he NEVER mentioned our self esteem is from our relationship with God…HWA brought that out years ago! It was VERY much a touchy feel-ly love love sermon!
 
At the Indy church I asked Darris McNeely why they don’t seem to have any urgency in their prophetic magazine….he said because they want the material to be true now and 50 years from now!  One time while he was speaking, he told us of his goal to read a book a week…a secular book…he proceeded to give a sermon on The Count of Monte Cristo, where he talked about treasure without EVER mentioning anything truly spiritual! It would have been so easy, but he started saying things about treasure…what your treasure is, isn’t mine…and talked about his grandma’s treasure box.

MANY of my friends who are UCG got pregnant with in vitro fertilization. It’s totally WRONG and ungodly!  I could go on, they are NOT the only ones.

On Facebook the last couple of days many of my liberal UCG “friends” are all wishing each other “happy new year!” That shouldn’t surprise me, but it does! Wow, they have really slipped down the slope and they can’t see it!!

God and the International Date Line

Did you know that God deliberately did not create land masses and allow humans (particularly COG members) to live throughout most of the Pacific ocean because he knew that humans would create an international date line several thousand years down the road and he did not want a lot of people (COG members, of course) being confused about when to celebrate the Sabbath?  Just one more mind boggling fact that is necessary for our salvation...

We know when the Sabbath is in Jerusalem. The seven day cycle has never been lost. Christ kept the Sabbath, we know that. The Sabbath is 24 hours. This is not rocket science. "Knowledge is easy to him that is in the way". There's a decision to make near the date line, but there's a reason God created the vast pacific ocean and why there's so little out there. God knew what he was doing.

You Sinned If You Watched New Years Celebrations

The legalistic hate mongers in the Church of God have been on a roll this year. Apostle Malm, Prophet Thiel, and others have all been in a rage about Christmas and New Years celebrations.  You would think people were slaughtering first born on both of these days.  For some reason the COGers seem to think these are the worlds two most offensive and putrid celebrations the face of the earth.

Why do so many Church of God folk watch New Year's celebrations?

Some of these people give sermonettes (because they are related to someone or are wealthy not because of ability or knowledge). I must say that their 'sermonettes' are nothing but piffle and dribble anyway with no depth of understanding. As such, as a Church of God member I am under no obligation to listen to them...

So what's the difference between celebrating New Year's and Christmas? They are part of the same Babylonian Mark of the Beast! So should Christians be celebrating it or watching the fireworks? Time is short; life is short; why are members no longer interested in studying God's Word? Study and discuss the Bible, not get into New Year's trash!

The COG has always had a tradition of working the Rose Parade in Pasadena for well over 50 years.  The college and church basically ran all grandstands, parking lots and most concession stands on the parade route for years.  Even to this day members from the various splinter groups still do some activities to raise money. They park cars, usher in grandstands, sell programs or concessions and are even members of the organization.  LCG even has a member of their church in the Tournament of Roses.  Yet Prophet Thiel spits and sputters about the evilness of New Years. I am sure that LCG member appreciates being lied about by Prophet Bob.

William Ellis wrote in a 1964 Plain Truth the following that COGers just love to promote this time of year:

The New Year's festivities that had originated in Babylon found their way to Greece and finally to Rome. The Romans called it "Saturnalia" -- in honor of Saturn. Among them it was extremely popular -- a time of revelings, drinking bouts, orgies -- finally ending in HUMAN SACRIFICE!

There is nothing better to start the new year off than a fresh sacrifice on the altar, especially if it is a pink juicy baby!  Then he goes on to talk about many Feast of tabernacles sites:  "... a time of revelings, drinking bouts, orgies..."  There have been many reports over the years of the drunken and gluttonous COG members at Feast sites.  There have been sex orgies and wife swapping by ministers and members.  I would think these Armstrongites would get their own houses in order before damning the world around them.


Ellis goes on to write:  

Today, New Year's Eve has become a time for people to wallow in excesses of liquor! The modern attitude seems to be, "have a wild time on New Year's Eve, and turn over a new leaf on New Year's Day!"

New Year's resolutions are empty and meaningless, usually trifling matters of jest! Few people make a lasting change. (OrginalWCG Yahoo Group)

The first paragraph describes a typical COG Feast site and the second sounds exactly like COG members who make all kinds of promises to God right before Passover and afterwards.  They beg God to forgive them for the past years sins and make promises not to make the same mistakes for the coming year.  Then like the people who make New Years resolutions they then proceed to break all those promises.Hypocrites!