Dennis On: "Are We the Scoffers of I Peter 3 and Are We In Big Trouble?"

 Are We the Scoffers of I Peter 3 and Are We In Big Trouble?

Every church pastor I have ever met or heard on the radio pulls out the "Scoffer Card" when times get tough.  The local Baptist churches around Greenville must be experiencing a lot flack these days from the youth and from people who come and go through their congregations because they all are giving sermons on this scoffing and persecution for their views. They deserve it as they refuse to update themselves and think it's 1945.  I think these guys meet every Monday morning and pick the theme on radio of the week because they all speak of it using the same scriptures all week long.  Scoffing at religion and religious leaders was not invented by WCG and the splinter explosion that came from it.  They did perfect it however providing endless reasons for scoffers to scoff.  

 Most theologians now feel that I and ll Peter were not written by the Gospel Peter and in fact, each book was probably written by two different men 70-90 and as late as 112 AD.  These are books written in the name of Peter but in excellent Greek using the Greek OT which most feel any real Galilean Peter would never do nor could he.  He was just a fisherman after all.  It is pseudopigrapha or a false writing written to address the great disappointment  of still no show Jesus.  

In the WCG/Splinter experience, we have been given an never ending parade of self appointed prophets, priests, witnesses, messengers, watchers and Apostles that make their living off the concept of "soon,"  "just around the corner," "by Feast time," "by Pentecost" , "By 2016" and of course, the New Testament gives them all the terminology they need to promote the soon of the Second Coming.   However the modern day splinters and all of fundamentalist Christianity are having exactly the same problems today with the no show Jesus as the early churches did back when those scriptures actually applied to them.  It is humorous to me that 2000 years later, a minister can still quote the ancient texts as if they were just written for today and no one questions this.  

In reality, NONE of the NT soon and shortly statements are for us. It was for them and it failed to deliver.  Duality and types were invented to solve this problem and keep it all going low these thousands of years later. 

Of course early Christians scoffed at the ministry .  They were the ones telling everyone   "things which must SHORTLY come to pass."  That "the hour NOW IS!"  That "the day is FAR SPENT"  and "Little Children, it is the LAST HOUR."    Of course it wasn't.  The Apostle Paul spent his thirty year career telling everyone that he would be among the "we who are alive and remain."  He fully expected Jesus to return in his time and only near the end when he got old did he wake up and smell the coffee.. Of course he had also taught others to not marry, not date and send it in so he brewed his own scoffers as did they all.  Paul exited the scene in classic "I"  "me" and "my" style with his "I have fought the good fight, I have kept the faith..therefore there is laid up for ME......which I shall receive."  Etc.  I'm not sure Paul actually kept the faith.  He kept his faith and his version of that faith but it seems "All those in Asia have turned aside from me..." had another version in mind.  I bet Paul called them scoffers. 

It is not scoffing to notice something does not happen as presented.  Ron Weinland was never subtle in his views of who he thought he was and the message he thought he had to bring.  Dave Pack is not subtle in this either nor is Gerald Flurry.  They'd draw the scoffer out of most critically thinking human beings.  What they say is simply foolishness and fantasy made up in their heads.  Flurry sees himself in Malachi,  Pack in Haggai and Weinland in Revelation .  Ron evidently still doesn't see himself in prison but I am sure he thinks this is the time for his prison epistles just like the Apostle Paul whose teachings he rarely taught or even understands.

II Peter was written by someone to address the now 2000 year old problem of "where is this Second Coming that YOU say is SOON?"    How soon is soon to you guys.  What kinda soon are we talking about here because I am actually giving a lot to you guys for "a short work," as you quote to us often and have put relationships on hold because of your "3-5 years, maybe 10, 15 at the most, 25 max..."   carrot dangling.  

Let's take a quick look at II Peter and see whose right.  Scoffers or Apostles?   Let's also notice that there is truly nothing new under the sun when it comes to making an apologetic for the obvious.  The write of II Peter is going to sound awfully familiar to the WCG experience. 

II Peter 3:

1 This is now, beloved, the second letter I am writing to you in which I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, 2 that you should remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles.

In other words, you still should listen to us on these matters. The author does not bother to tell them which commandment "of the Lord" he is thinking of but whatever it was it was really their local Apostles who will interpret for them.  It sounds to me like a little too much critical and not so cooperative thinking was going on and there had to be a lid slammed down on it before the pot boiled over. 

3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.”

 

This is the first time mockers and scoffers make their way onto the scenes .  Too much time had passed since Jesus ascended and promised to come back.  A good 50  years at least.  John Kennedy died 50 years ago to give you some context.  Now this "Peter" connects the idea of scoffing and mocking to lust.  Isn't that always the case.  "The reason you want to mock and scoff or believe in good science done well is because you want to disobey God and do what you want to do." Noooooo... there is no connection between these two concepts but it's nice to assign some devious motive to their simple observation that soon does not really seem to be soon.  It makes the Apostle feel better probably to not think they are just making a correct observation.  The comment in verse 4 is a 100% true statement.  People were dying who were sold on the idea that they would only be changed in a moment and a twinkling of an eye and not see death as other men.  It was messing them up.  Whatever signs that generation used to prove to themselves they were in the last times were just going on and on.  The Romans wouldn't get lost, seemed more powerful than ever and you can't even get near Jerusalem anymore if you're a Jew.

5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. 7 But the present heavens and earth by His word are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

 

When and Apostle says "they maintain" he really means  "they stubbornly hold on to this observation..."  This shows he was up against some deadly serious observations and criticism for all the soon and shortly stuff of the past few decades.   And of course, anyone with a clear mind and eyes to see would too.  Whatever "soon" and "shortly" meant to the scoffers, it was obviously not the same kind of "soon" and "shortly' of the ministry, as we shall see.  Sound familiar? 

God is giving us more time

The wisdom of man is foolishness with God

There is a way that seeeeeeems  right to a man....but it ends in death

My ways are not your ways....

and in this case...

God does not count time like you do and days are not really days stupid...

Frankly, I don't understand the writers point in what he says "escapes their notice..."    His water/fire story leads nowhere that I can tell.  Of course the earth was not born out of water in reality.  Water came later in the birth of the earth but that's science and not theology.  Since in the Noah story God promises no more big water events, he goes on to say it will be by fire but again, is not any answer to the question of "my Lord delays his coming."  

I can't resist saying to this one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day defense.  And you know this?  Is this just what you make up when the Apostle also knows the coming is delayed but he can't admit it?  Did he ever season his previous time is short and Jesus is coming soon statements with this little bit of made up apologetic.  No he did not because he didn't need it then when he thought soon was still soon in real time.  But now we go into spirit time and magical thinking.  Next comes the double speak that "the Lord is not slow in the way humans think of slow," when in fact this is classic slow and not soon or shortly either.  I suppose he could have said that "Soon is not soon as you think of it as soon and shortly is a longer shortly than men come up with."  No matter, the Deity can't lose so the apologetic has to be woven for the brethren.  We have seen Ron Weinland do a lot of re weaving of predictions along the way when it was obvious he was wrong wrong wrong..   I can still hear him chiding the church for misunderstanding what he said and they did not listen.  It was "spiiiiirrrrritual !...stupid."  Actually this is what the author of Peter is doing as well.  Same ploy and same inability to just say that he was wrong.  But he will trade "soon" and "shortly" for another word that is just as good as motivator to not scoff or mock.

We also see the author of Peter uses the same "God is giving us more time," excuse and again something that was never brought up about God wanting all to be saved etc...until he had to make an excuse for God and the slowness of soon and shortly.  I'm surprised the author did not say that God was giving "you brethren" more time to get your wicked act together and "make it into the kingdom."  

10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

 

So now the Second Coming is not soon or shortly, it is going to be sneaky and you better watch out, you better not cry, you better not pout , I'm telling you why....Jesus Christ is coming suddenly.  The thief might come neither soon or shortly, but he comes sneaky and suddenly. Brilliant move!  Suddenly is like soon or shortly but unknowable.  Great compromise of the error!  Members and those who notice that none of what the ministry predicts comes  true are turned into scoffers and mockers and the ministry gets to reset and redefine the clock. 

Alas the heavens have not passed in 2000 years nor the elements destroyed with intense heat.  All these people are dust and the beat goes on.  

So, those who notice that neither Church , Pastor or even Bible predictions came true in any sense humans would think they would is not scoffing or mocking.  It is noticing the obvious and speaking up.  Ministers and churches get scoffed at and mocked when they keep up the charade, change the rules as they go and blame the listeners for not listening.  We scoff at those who take  offices and titles unending to themselves and preach themselves way too much.  

The author of Peter simply could not bring himself to say "I don't know," or "We were wrong."  Modern day seers would choke on those words I expect.  He had to mystify and redefine the words and then blame those who noticed calling them scoffers and mockers.   And so it still is today.  

No....those who notice what the ministers, apostles, witnesses , watchers and non prophets say which is either silly, stupid or insane are not in one bit of trouble with the Deity.  They don't scoff or mock.  Ok well they do but it is the church and the leaders that provide the ammo.  We just notice it....I suppose it could be viewed as actively working out one's own salvation and not being snookered. 

contact Dennis at: denniscdiehl@AOL.com

Dave Pack Now Believes HWA Predicted His End Time Superfantabulous Church

Every time Dave opens his mouth now something crazier comes out than the last time. This time he is using a supposed conversation that Dale Schurter had with HWA prior to his death.  How suspicious it all sounds.  Dave is placing his trust in a man who has stabbed two different COG corporations in the back over the years.  Can Schurter really be trusted?  Here's a man who while on WCG payroll connived and plotted to move over to UCG when it started.  Then while on UCG payroll he starts negotiating with Dave Pack for his salary.  Once that was secured he jumps ship from UCG to RCG.  Talk about a snake in the grass!

The following is a recounting of an extraordinary conversation (several hours duration) that Mr. Dale Schurter and his wife had with Mr. Armstrong less than a year before his death in January 1986. It confirms Mr. Armstrong’s belief that God’s Church would later do an even BIGGER WORK—that it would “prophesy again” fulfilling Revelation 10:11:

“A few months before Mr. Armstrong’s death, my wife and I had the opportunity to spend several hours with Mr. Armstrong in his home in Pasadena. He spoke freely of the mighty work God had commissioned him to accomplish, and related certain heartfelt comments: ‘I can say that I have finished the work God has given me to do, and am at peace about it. I have preached and taken the Gospel of the Kingdom of God into all the world as a witness to all nations.’

“Mr. Armstrong went on to say, ‘I have come to realize there will be an even greater work to follow—to go again, to “prophesy again” to all nations tongues and peoples (Rev. 10:11) before the work of the two witnesses—but with more power and with a stronger warning message. But that will be for others to do.’ He continued, ‘It will be a short work (Rom. 9:27-29), compared with the longer time to complete the work I was given, and it will be cut short. That’s when the Great Tribulation will begin, as will the work of the two witnesses. These will last for three and one-half years, at the end of which Christ will return in glory.’”

Dave Pack: I Have 2 Billion New People That I Can Destroy With My Message

Dave seems to think he has a field ripe for the harvesting with his demonic message.  Since HWA dies over 2 billion new souls have been born with 75 million new people here in the U.S.

Just think how incredibly LUCKY these 2 billion people are to have never heard of HWA!

Ponder the following. Mr. Armstrong has been gone for over 27 years. Earth’s population has grown 44 percent—from under 4.9 billion in 1986 to 7.1 billion today! Then realize that today’s Israelite nations are also much larger than in early 1986. In 2006, the United States reached 300 million, and this just 39 years after reaching 200 million (1967). Under 240 million when Mr. Armstrong died, it is 315 million today, an increase of over 75 million—just in the United States.

Let’s go further. An entire generation has died since the last true warning went to the peoples who heard and read Mr. Armstrong. And therefore incredibly great numbers were not yet born. Those who were alive, but under age 20, did not grasp any message or warning they might have heard. Thus, the GREAT MAJORITY TODAY have never been warned of what is in store for the descendants of all 12 tribes of Israel! Hundreds of millions simply have no idea what is coming on our lands, and on our peoples! Nor have they heard the awesome truth of the gospel of the kingdom of God.

Dave Pack: God Will Soon Dissolve All The Splinters Making My Work ENORMOUS and Wealthy!

Dave Pack is back with his Friday message to his dwindling faithful and for the hundreds of thousands of faithless who think he is bat shit crazy.

God is soon going to dissolve all the splinter groups, who will then be so in awe of him that they will combine all of their assets and resources into Dave's superfantabulous church of god.

Those who are reading these special weekly announcements understand that only a few groups—perhaps four—are making any real attempt at doing God’s Work. However sincere, we saw from Haggai that these are merely doing works of men, not directed by the living Christ who only heads and works through His government and His Church. Also not teaching God’s full truth to the world, these “houses” of men are doing their own “works”—NOT God’s. This is about to change in a BIG WAY! When God dissolves the splinters, combining all resources, HIS ensuing Work will be ENORMOUS—beyond imagination!

Apostle Malm: Polygamy Will Be Allowed In The Millennium

Woo Hoo!  Those of you that have always waned more than one wife you are in luck!  Apostle Malm has decreed that at the end of the tribulation and into the early years of the millennium you will be able to have more than one partner.  I guess the Fundie Mormons had it right after all! Who knew!

Isaiah 4
The tribulation will be especially hard on the men and very many will die, leaving only one man for every seven women.  At the end of the tribulation perhaps God will relax the marriage of monogamy for a short time out of mercy or the people.

4:1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.

When one of his readers called him to task for his comment he had this to say:

James, I do not think such speculation is helpful. This verse is only saying a population imbalance will occur in the last days, and that women will be clamoring for a husband. It does NOT imply God will throw out the 7th commandment. If He were to relax on that, then why not relax on idolatry too? The whole system falls apart if you go by this speculation. Why would God come to the earth to punish man for sin, only to relax on the law which condemns sin? I suggest you remove this statement.

The statement is no new thing as God permitted such practice in ancient times and

. The only issue is the mercy and compassion of God; would he leave 6 of every 7 women marriageless and childless? That is HIS decision to make!
Do you not perform acts of mercy on the Sabbath, breaking the Sabbath because the law of mercy over rides other laws? Did not David eat the Bread of Presence when he needed mercy? I am simply saying; if that is God’s will: Who are we to object.

Christ is boss and he will do his will, he is not concerned with our hang ups and our ideas. Personally I hope to be among the chosen and would probably be dead anyway, so this is not an issue for me.

Apostle Malm then ads this. I would never have thought I would agree with him on something but he is right!

It is because of such issues [there are many in the COG who still have HWA's Quaker hang ups regarding matters of sex and marriage, even though HWA himself totally reversed his attitude after Loma died. HWA's early positions dictated to him by Loma, has caused immeasurable unhappiness and suffering in very many marriages in the WCG and LCG] that I posted the comment and it will stay.