Dave Pack: Tares in the church made my work a real challenge

Dave Pack says he stuck out like a sore thumb, not only because he was tall and married Herbert Armstrong's secretary, but because of his decisive leadership that resulted in him being sent into troubled areas to straighten things out.  The problem when he arrived that there were "tares" laying in wait for him in order to "explode" when he reestablished "true standards." This also pissed of the ministers in those areas who resented him.  This made his work a real challenge.

Like the 90% of church members who never really got HWA's teachings, 90% of the COG members in the areas he went to rescue never "got" what he was trying to do.

“When you draw a line in the sand, and the ministers around you do not, you stick out like a sore thumb. Some saw me as harsh compared to others. Never mind that I was tall, and from a high-profile family in the Church because I had married Mr. Armstrong’s secretary. I simply could not hide—nor did I seek to. Decisive leadership was necessary. Of course, I could never have imagined that merely administering standards the Bible taught and Mr. Armstrong adhered to could be so problematic and controversial.

“I was sent into these troubled areas time and again where many were ‘lying in wait.’ Tares were everywhere, waiting, ready to explode when true standards were re-introduced. And it seemed surrounding pastors always grew resentful. All of these factors made my ministry a tremendous challenge.

“Cleaning up programs and standards was interesting and rewarding as I saw the many positive effects on people’s lives, but it was also extremely difficult, and wearying, dealing with the constant politics of what later were understood to be, for the most part, a carnal-minded ministry that had grown up throughout the Church. Of course, this was later evidenced as true in the same large percentages among the lay members.

“I just could not always put together the great overall meaning of what I was observing—and enduring—at the time. None of us could know until later how right was Mr. Armstrong when he said, ‘90 percent of you do not get it.’ However, I was sure getting good training for all that would come.”

Of sluts and whores, sinners and losers...

Just a reminder that categorizing people as "sluts", "whores" and sinners who are somehow different than everyone else  and deserving of this or that judgment  by the righteous might not be the very best way for encourage people when they need it the most. 

Even I still agree that whatever the way of Jesus was , he defined it as easy and the burden of it light.
Hardly what you get from the ministry and far too many members in the Churches of God under the IM-Potentates and UN-IN-Potentates.

Watch it. Let it change the way you talk to and treat your partners, children , friends and all the sinners, whores and losers in the church you know. 

Former Minister or not, and I can defend the fact that I have thought this way as a kid long before I ever heard of WCG,  and that there are much better ways to treat people who "fail" or "sin" or simply goof up than what I ever heard from the mouth of HWA or the self centered , self absorbed and self ordained pretend ministers and righteous follows of the COG circus masters. 

As in politics, the self righteous, judgmental and somewhat or totally narcissistic personalities rise to the top and lack the skills, compassion and love to treat people who fail, as they do as well  but won't tell you that..ever. , to meet the standards of "becoming perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect," good luck with that.  And don't give me "it means mature."  Good luck with that too.

Most who practice such poor people skills and spiritual qualities only change when they get bitten in the ass themselves and given an opportunity to wake up and change their way viewing others as if they are all that different from everyone else.  Dave Pack, for example, need only to look his own family to see being righteous and perfect in his own mind didn't work out so well for the clan. Dave has been bitten often in the ass and learned precisely nothing from it evidently.

I've had my own shortcomings in life both within and without the ministry.  My own mistakes were born out of regrets about my perception of being stuck in the scandal filled WCG while pastoring some very fine folk that I did not wish to let down or abandon and the stress that went along with it.  It was a real challenge. I also meant every bit of what I did or did not do at times. I made personal choices I now regret and some I am glad I did consequences and all.  There were times I would have appreciated being treated as I perceived I had treated others, but it didn't happen.  The self righteous and unblemished are a hard kind of nut to crack.

I may be a firm believer in evolution and an atheist with regards to my  views of Bible origins, politic and problems but I always knew that a pat on the back is only 18 inches from a kick in the ass and works much better.   For example...

No, it's not the job of the minister to monitor the sins of the congregation.  He's got his own issues and their ain't no 10's in the ministry or administration of any church. The job of the pastor is to en-courage, to en-lighten and provide  the safe haven for human beings and everyone is first of all that.  It's his job to be human too and willing to admit it.  People like that and respond to that much more than the hubris and discipline you see in most of the Churches of God when people fail to meet the standards.  I have felt the boot of my superiors on my throat when already in the weeds of depression and anxiety caused by the very men who wore the boots. It didn't make me better and it didn't make me wish to stay even if I had not lost my personal faith in faith itself.

The job comes with having the ability to be a helper of one's joy and not a roadblock to one's journey.  The minister's job is to be the best example of one who bares, believes, hopes and endures and helps others to do so when they feel they have failed and seek forgiveness and understanding. 

The minister and member job description is this, and if the Apostle Paul actually wrote this, then I'd say it shows the man grew up during his blustering ministry and realized this close to the end of his life after years of his own false prophecies about the end, how everyone else must be and how  it all is.

First of all and at the least Paul was able to look at himself.  Men like Pack, Flurry and Weinland lack this skill.  Paul called it "sin".  I'd simply call it being human when trying to be something like "perfect" according to someone else's standards and learning it might not work so well. .

I only wish Paul, for the sake of all to follow would have been more specific about what it was he simply could not stop doing or being.

Romans 7:15-20 New International Version (NIV)

¹⁵ I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. ¹⁶ And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. ¹⁷ As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. ¹⁸ For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.^[a] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. ¹⁹ For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. ²⁰ Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it."

Probably one of the NT's more honest human admissions. But he learned evidently what was the most important thing and it turns out not be labeling people, sluts, whores, sinners and losers.

1 Corinthians 13 New International Version (NIV)13 

If I speak in the tongues^[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. ² If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. ³ If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,^[b] but do not have love, I gain nothing.

⁴ Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. ⁵ It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. ⁶ Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. ⁷ It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. ⁹ For we know in part and we prophesy in part, ¹⁰ but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. ¹¹ When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. ¹² For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

¹³ And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love."

I hope he did write it.  Every minister in the Splits, Splinters and Slivers as well as those who take great titles upon themselves can suck it up and admit just how much of this they lack and no, no God loves us so much he has to turn us over to any Satan for the destruction of the flesh that the spirit might be saved.  I don't believe that personally for a minute because that shifts the responsibility and opportunity for the minister or member to practice love, real and unconditional.  

Disfellowshiping, Lakes of Fire and the wicked being ashes under the feet of the "righteous" is repugnant to me  as it reveals  a being or a theology that easily runs out of ideas on how to love, inspire, forgive and show some compassion for a change. It also reveals a God that is unconvincing.  A God who hides behind prophets, priests and ministers , mere third party salesmen, to be understood is a weak God and going about it all wrong.  I know...the wisdom of man is foolishness with God, but perhaps man's observations about God or God's men of faith and power should not be foolishness with  a real God.  It might just be considered  helpful input. Threatening I know. 

I also never found it inspiring that the Egyptians who don't come up to the feast and worship the Hebrew  God, won't get rain for their crops and this starve I imagine.   Is that stupid or what?  Forced obedience and compliance never goes well.  What kind of love and loyalty does being forced produce?   Forced and very insincere....I suspect. (I don't believe that will actually happen but you get the point). 

I find it repulsive that "without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins."  What's wrong with a simple "I forgive you."  Is that so difficult?  What's so hard about "I'm sorry, I was wrong, Please forgive me, I love you too."?  doing the trick?   Too easy maybe and you don't need to build an entire religious hierarchy to inforce it perhaps. 

Sorry.  Hitting people when they need a hug has always been an issue to me in the church and out.  It is rude, childish and bespeaks a spiritual immaturity that has always plagued the Churches of God in both members and ministry. 

In case you missed it.....

Obedience Unto Death

For any Church of God member who grew up as a child or attended as an adult, the chances of you ever receiving medical assistance were slim to none.  To do so was to let the church know that you had no faith that God would heal you.  Back then children could get out of school immunizations if they provided x-rays and other form-letter statements from the church.  Some parents were sensible enough to ignore the directives for their kids and some adults sought proper medical treatment as needed without feeling the need to get ministerial approval.  However, many did not get proper medical treatment and suffered all kinds of consequences, even death.  All because they thought they had to be obedient to COG ministers and fearful of losing their salvation.

This idiocy was all due to Herbert Armstrong's booklet published in 1952, Does God Heal Today?

In 1952 a small booklet written by Herbert W. Armstrong officially inaugurated a doctrine which brought suffering and death to the Worldwide Church of God for more than thirty years. The booklet was entitled, Does God Heal Today? Some of the subheadings of the booklet are: "Medicine Condemned as Idolatry" and "The Pagan Origins of Medicine". This doctrinal pronouncement was issued under the same threat of loss of eternal life as were many of his other writings.

In Does God Heal Today?, Armstrong leaves no doubt in the reader's mind as to the seriousness of seeking medical help:

"We take the broken bread unworthily if, and when, we take it at communion service and then put our trust in doctors and medicine instead of in Christ, thus putting another God before him." (p. 14)

Receiving communion after going to a doctor invalidated the symbolism of the communion service?  Wut?

Armstrong admonishes his followers to be obedient to James 5:14-15 which instructs a believer to call for the elders who will anoint them with oil and pray the prayer of faith. He then adds: "He does not say, call the doctors and let them give medicines and drugs and God will cause the medicines and drugs and dope to cure you.... Instead, God says call God's ministers...," (p. 19).

"Don't pay any attention to how you feel, or what you see, after you have called on God for healing. Just know you are to have it -- and that's that!" (p. 20).

Then to scare members even further, we were warned that to seek medical assistance was equivalent to sorcery, witchcraft and idolatry! To do so would ultimately result in EXCRUCIATING DEATH in the second death which was the lake of fire! Seriously, who would go to a doctor after reading that kind of crap?

This doctrine was emphasized by other Worldwide Church of God writers through the years In The Good News magazine of October, 1959, there appeared an article by Donald G. Wofford entitled, "The Origin of Medical Science."

Wofford stated: "Either we trust God to heal our diseases... or trust in medical science -- which won't help us and which God terms `sorcery,' `witchcraft' and `idolatry' -- and suffer agony now and an excruciating death -- the second death in the lake of fire," (p. 8). 

The writings by Armstrong and Wofford were considered "God's law" because God supposedly channelled those words into their minds,  who then put to them to paper as "God inspired" and commanded "law" for the membership.

These writings were accepted as God's law by the members and resulted in many cancelling their health insurance policies, refusing to vaccinate their children, and denying themselves novocain when attending dentists. Dental visits were acceptable, but not the use of pain relievers. Even aspirin was shunned by many as the devil's medicine.

Thankfully we have the Ambassador Report to document the lives touched by this absurdity:

The real extent of this tragic obedience can be seen from the stories of those who followed Armstrong's teachings to the death. In an article in the 1977 Ambassador Report by publisher and editor John Trechak entitled, "Modern Moloch: Human Sacrifice in the Armstrong Church," a number of examples are cited. Trechak gives this account:

"I recently asked a former high-ranking minister of the Worldwide Church of God if he knew personally of any cases of church members dying as a result of the Armstrong healing doctrine. This is what he told me:

`Yes, absolutely. Many. I can specifically recall one case that plagues me even yet and that's (of a) little boy, five years old, who had spinal meningitis.

`Dr. McReynolds, the Seventh-day Adventist doctor who worked with the church, was advising them to take the child to the hospital and try a new treatment that was 90% to 100% effective.

`The people asked me what they should do, and I kept saying, "Read the booklet (Herbert Armstrong's healing booklet), follow God, and have faith."

`So they did. They remained faithful to the doctrine of the church. I didn't tell them to do it, but I sure encouraged them. And the little boy died.

`I remember it so well because it was such a tragic incident, and Dr. McReynold's was so angry. `He just flailed at me and said, "That's just an absolute waste of human life, and there's no reason for it," and he just let me have it.

`I know of literally scores or hundreds of cases like this. There's no way to determine the exact number of people who were affected. We're talking about a forty-year period. I think thousands actually died over the years as a result of this doctrine.'" 

Thanks to Ambassador Report word started spreading that Rod Meredith and other ministers were actively going to doctors and seeking medical treatment.  The cat was out of the bag and yet they still scrambled to cover it up.  All the time they were still pushing this non-medical malarkey, Herbert Armstrong was receiving medical treatment and was taking all kinds of medications

In the mid-1970's it became known that high ranking members of the Headquarter's staff had been seeking medical assistance. Rod Merridith had had eye surgery and Herbert Armstrong had seen doctors abroad. Many ministers and members began to question the healing doctrine.

The failure of Herbert Armstrong to deal with the problems with this doctrine and others culminated in several dozen ministers and five thousand members leaving the Worldwide Church of God in 1974. Although the booklet Does God Heal Today? was discontinued in 1968, the members were not immediately given any new doctrinal paper to guide them into a sane approach to health care.

It has only been recently, in the late 1980's, that such a booklet has been published. Published by Watchman Fellowship

The really sad part in the above quote is that the membership overall, still believed they should not go to doctors and waited, like frogs in a pot of slowly heating water, for the church to tell them what to do!  They did so because it was an understanding ingrained in all sermons and booklets that the members were too stupid to know what to do unless a minister or "God's apostle" told them what to do.

Sadly, this perversion is still being promoted today in various COG's.  The leadership get proper medical treatment, but the members are afraid to.

When will they learn that the lake of fire is NOT the destination of anyone who goes to doctor?  Even worse is the hundreds of lives of babies, children and adults who needlessly died because of this belief!

United Church of God: Why do so many UCG members stand by criminals in their midst?

If you watched the video about Stephen Allwine (Web of Lies: The Murder of Amy Allwine) that was posted earlier, you would see mentioned several times that the courtroom was filled up almost every day with United Church of God members who were there to support Stephen during his murder trial. You will also hear the prosecutors surprised by this large show of force. The video even shows them showing up at the trial with their faces obscured.

Many years earlier than this, United Church of God members showed up in force at another trial for a stalker that was harassing COG women. They too showed up to support the stalker and essentially were blaming the victims as the cause of the problem and not the stalker.

Several years ago, in Bluefield WV, a UCG woman who was a bank manager, embezzled hundreds of thousands of dollars from the bank she worked at.  She essentially stole the life savings of hundreds of elderly people and bank account holders. She bought her husband numerous motorcycles and cars,  that he paraded through the town daily on, they also built a fancy house.  They built a permanent church building for her local UCG congregation which was alter repossed by the govenment. At Feast times she passed out envelopes filled with money in them to help the less fortunate UCG members.  UCG members flocked to her trial and supported her like she did no wrong.

This does not include some of the other court trials that I have heard mentioned over the years where UCG members were on trial and regular member supported them, regardless of their crimes.

Why are they so supportive?

Dave Pack Denies He Was Ever A Source Of Controversy

"Who? Me?" should really be Dave's mantra.  He has never done anything wrong in his entire life.

Some today assert that Church Administration, and later Ministerial Services, perceived Mr. Pack as a source of controversy in his pastorates, and that there was a necessity to frequently transfer him through the years to alleviate problems he had supposedly created. Had this been the case, and this should be obvious, he would not have been systematically promoted in 1976, 1977 and 1981 (and other times later).

On the contrary, he was viewed as a pastor who could reorganize and stabilize injured congregations.

The expanded Rochester/Syracuse/Buffalo pastorate spanned five and a half hours east to west, and three hours north to south, from Dunkirk to beyond Utica, and from the St. Lawrence River (Canadian border) down to Cortland, New York, below Syracuse.

Now pastoring almost 1,100 brethren, the Packs drove almost nonstop to attend three Sabbath services each week, on top of giving Bible studies and directing Spokesman Clubs and youth programs, as well as also making many visits each week. He did have two unordained, but full-time, ministerial assistants to help.