Sunday, September 24, 2023

Our Apologies To Bob Thiel

 


Exclusive video of Banned carrying Bob Thiel inside during 
his current temper tantrum.


We know it is tough being the most incredible Church of God leader to ever get it all right since Peter and James fought and bickered in Jerusalem over who had it right. 

It has to be tough that sooooooooooooooooo many consider you a blabbering buffoon and fail to acknowledge your divinity as a double-blessed self-appointed leader of the church. We regret we have been led astray by your detractors in the Living Church of God who still mock you to this day.

We regret we have fallen short in our recognition of you as the Chosen One. 
The chiefest of Chief Overseers ever to exist. 
The One who was preordained as the world was being formed to come in these perilous end times to save the Laodicean members of the church as you preach the gospel to all nations through a bunch of booklets no one ever reads, kind of like all the Bibles you have sent over to Africa.

We regret we do not believe your nightmares dreams that you claim are from from your god. But, given the track record in the church over the last 80-some years of an endless stream of men who dreamed up their authority to rule over others, it's really hard to take you seriously. We apologize. We will try harder.

It has to be hard sitting in your position of privilege in Arroyo Grande as you have to contend with such bad representatives in Africa whom you have no control over. We regret that they are using you just for your money, computers, Bibles, and free seeds. We are also sorry you had to be caught up in the church-hopping routine of African church leaders who are constantly looking for the next handout from gullible Americans. That has to be a hard piece of unleavened bread to swallow.

Bob, rest assured that we are here for you anytime. 

All the time.

We will make sure no one ever forgets who you are.

But hey, you keep on being you!




Origins: Did or Now Do Old Testament El or YHVH or New Testament Jesus Have Wings?

(Note: Pardon length for any short attention span lurkers. It's a big and fascinating topic :)


Dave Pack says yes...


However...Not after the Israelite Priesthood got ahold of them, though winged Gods were the order of the day before the Priesthood of Israel clipped them. 


No images or idols of El or YHVH sprouting wings exist. While El does have depictions in idols, YHVH does not being too sacred a god to depict, or whose name should even be spoken.  Other names were substituted to address this problem such as "Lord" , "Adonai", "Yah" and "Jehovah".


"Yahweh" is the accepted way to pronounce it, if you dare, however. 


The God YHVH



...before the Lord (YHVH) became depicted as Jesus, radiating "wings" of sunlight declaring himself to be the light of the world. 

John 8:12

Again, Jesus spoke to them saying, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light"




So, if you have "seen me, you have seen the Father" no wings for either Jesus or Father EL.

However, Dave Pack speculates...



Part 469 – September 14, 2023

@ 05:14 So, here’s my question: Is it possible God has wings? The Father has wings? Would that make it possible? Certainly, dudn’t say it outright, but would it be possible? Hmm.

 

@ 12:47 Does Christ have wings? Now, the world doesn’t know God or Christ have wings if they do. They are never depicted that way. Angels, yes. And sometimes saints. But not generally

========================

 

There is no depiction of the Israelite of El or his lesser, at the time, YHVH, a member of the Divine Council of the Gods having wings once El evolved into YHVH adopted by the Israelites.


Malachi 4 does intrigue using terminology he did however....



A most honest scripture about the nature of God as "The Sun". In this context, "His wings" are the sun rays represented by wings. The reference in Malachi is a memory of the Sun Gods of Egypt


"But unto you that fear My name shall the Sun of Righteousness arise with healing in His wings; and ye shall go forth and grow up as calves from the stall."

Malachi 4:2

Pharoah Akhenaten 

The Pharoah, abandoned polytheism and declared Ra, the Sun God the only true God. After his brief and tumultuous reign, the Priestcraft of Egypt restored polytheism to Egypt.


Pagan winged gods were very commonly depicted. 

Winged God of Assyria


The God Ninurta of the Sumerians


Winged Hittite God


Winged God of Persia



====================

 The original God of Isra-EL, borrowed from the Canaanites who first worshipped EL is not depicted with wings. Nor is His son, Baal the storm god. Wings seem to have been removed from the gods of the surrounding nations when adopted by the Israelites.

Biblical Israel was polytheistic until it evolved into the more familiar monotheism. Before it did, EL/YHVH was a jealous God who did not take kindly to other lesser gods being brought into His presence.   It was not an argument that there were no other gods. It was merely a demand they not be brought into His presence based on his jealously and need to be worshipped as supreme with no competition from the other existing gods around Israel. 

Who Is El?

El was known as the supreme god of the Canaanites in the mythology of the ancient Near East. He was the father of gods and men and the creator deity. He is sometimes depicted as a bull and known for his tremendous power and strength.

Origins

El was an important god in Canaanite mythology. It is believed that he lived on Mount Saphon, close to the ancient Syrian city of Ugarit. He was very respected and was considered by the people to be all-knowing and all-powerful. He was incredibly wise and compassionate to those that came to him for guidance, but not always.



Offspring Baal (Also associated with Molech) Baal was also depicted as a Bull with the Sun symbol as El.  Bull worship was very common as the age of taurus was 4400 to 2300 BCE.

Mithras slays the Bull Taurus




 Mithras slaying the Bull icons depict the end of age of Taurus and the beginning of the Age of Aries the Ram/Lamb. At the end of both dominant ages, when the Sun is in the Spring Equinox, the god (Constellation) was slain. 

The Bull (Age of Taurus) died when the Sun moved into Aries and the Lamb of God died at the end of the Age of Aries, i.e. Jesus. 

Then began the Age of Pices, the two fish, which were adopted by the Christian Church as symbols of it as "fishers of men". and reminiscent of Jesus miracle of the two fish" 

This age is now ending and the Age of Aquarius, the Water Man is next up. 


Baal in human form


Originally, YHVH was a lesser god in the Council of the gods of El. This is the "US" that El is speaking to in Genesis when El says "Let us make man in our image" It is also the "US" of the Divine Council of the Gods EL is explaining to why man must be expelled from the Garden of Eden. 
Both the Knowledge of Good and Evil and living forever are only for the gods. The two trees in the Garden were "god-fruit" trees and the fruit of them was not for humans. Putting them in the midst of the garden, however, is like putting candy on the coffee table in the living room and warning the kids not to touch them or else. 

(Personally note: If Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and evil before eating the forbidden fruit, why blame them? Seems they did not yet understand the good of obeying God and the evil of not). 
 
Genesis 3:22

And the Lord God (EL)said, (To the Elohim or members of His Divine Council of the Gods) “Behold, the man has become as one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat and live for ever”—

...out you go. 

=============================

The following is an analysis of just how El evolved into YHVH and in the process, Any "wings" attached to previous gods of the Levant were clipped. 


First, the name Israel is not a Yahwistic name. El is the name of the deity invoked in the name Israel, which translates: “May El persevere.”2 

This suggests that El was seen as the chief god in the formative years of Israel’s religious practices. In fact, the etiological story explaining the origin of the name Israel occurs in Genesis 35:9-15, where Jacob obtains this name through the blessing of El Shaddai, that is “El of the Mountain.”

Second, there exist numerous parallels and similarities between descriptions and cultic terminology used for El in the Canaanite texts and those used for Yahweh in the biblical sources (see below). At some point, it is ascertained, the cultic worship of Yahweh must have absorbed that of El, through which means Yahweh assimilated both the imagery and epithets once used of El.

Finally, there is strong confirmation of this assimilation in the biblical record itself. 

In the oldest literary traditions of the Pentateuch, it is El who regularly appears and not Yahweh, or Yahweh as El! The patriarchal narratives identify El as the deity to whom many of the early patriarchal shrines and altars were built. For example, we are informed in Genesis 33:20 that Jacob builds an altar in the old cultic center of the north, Shechem, and dedicates it to “El, god of Israel” (’el ’elohe yišra’el ). There is no ambiguity in the Hebrew here: ’el must be translated as a proper name, El.3 The textual tradition from which this text derives, the Elohist, ultimately remembers a time when El was the patron god of Israel.

That El was the deity worshiped at Shechem is also attested in Judges 9:46, which speaks of the shrine of “El of the covenant.” The god of the shrine at Bethel, which literally translates, “house of El,” is additionally El—”I am El of Bethel” (Gen 31:13; cf. 35:7)—and appears to Jacob as El Shaddai (35:11; cf. 48:3). Jacob has another encounter with El at Penuel, which is so named because Jacob sees El face-to-face (32:31). 

Moreover, Isaac blesses Jacob through El Shaddai (28:3), and likewise Jacob blesses Joseph “by El of your fathers” (49:25). “El who sees” is given as the etymology of Beerlahai-roi in Genesis 16:13. And we are informed that Abraham journeys to the old cultic shrine at Beersheba, where he plants and worships a tree and calls on the name “El the eternal” and at the same time Yahweh (Gen 21:33). Contrary to Genesis 33:20, where the Shechemite El is presented unambiguously as the “god of Israel,” in Genesis 21:33, El is apparently already assimilated to Yahweh (see below). Finally, Genesis 14:18-22 speaks of “El the most high,” of whom the Canaanite Melchizedek is priest at Jerusalem.

This assimilation between Yahweh and El, or El into Yahweh, is present in much of the Priestly material as well. In fact, the Priestly source largely advocates this assimilation. In Genesis 17:1, the Priestly writer states that “Yahweh appeared to Abram and said to him: ‘I am El Shaddai.’” And Exodus 6:2-3, in contradiction to J (#11), has Yahweh assert: “I am Yahweh. And I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as El Shaddai, and I was not known to them by the name Yahweh.” Although the verse suggests an identification between Yahweh and El “of the mountain,” the verse also subtly recognizes an ancient distinction between the god of the patriarchs (El) and the god of the Mosaic era (Yahweh). But the assimilation is clear here: the patriarchs who worshiped El in the past were actually worshiping Yahweh, claims the Priestly writer.

Perhaps it is necessary at this point to ask: Who was El? And why is he even mentioned in the Bible in the first place, let alone as the god of Israel in the older literary traditions of Genesis?

Our knowledge of El predominantly comes from an invaluable corpus of tablets discovered in 1929 in the ancient city of Ugarit, a major city-state of the second millennium BC located on the northern coast of Syria, modern day Ras Shamra.4 The Ugaritic tablets are the best available witness to Canaanite religion and religious practices, and thus also “to the background from which the religion of Israel emerged, and to the Canaanite beliefs that it shared, adopted, compromised with, and sometimes rejected.”5 The Ugaritic literature depicts El as the sovereign deity of the Canaanite pantheon. He is frequently referred to as “Father of the gods,” “the eternal King,” and “Creator of all living beings.” El’s other epithets include: “El the Kind, the Compassionate,” “the Bull,” “the Ageless One,” and “the Father of Years.” He is depicted as bearded, and residing in a tent or a tabernacle, whose throne rests on Cherubim. He is the god of blessings and of covenants.

Many of these epithets and images later become assimilated to Yahweh. For example, Yahweh is often depicted as bearded, as King of the gods, as Compassionate, and as residing in a tent, whose throne, like that of El, rests on Cherubim. There are, in addition to this, numerous El epithets in various strains of biblical tradition—epithets that through a process of assimilation and adoption later become associated with Yahweh. We have already encountered El Shaddai, “El of the Mountain.” Like Yahweh who is associated with the mountain of Sinai and later in eschatological traditions with Zion, so too El resides on a mountain. Other patriarchal narratives attest the use of El Olam, “El the Eternal” to whom Abraham plants and worships a tree at Beersheba, El Elyon, “El the Most High,” the god of Melchizedek (Gen 14:18-24), and El Roi, “El who sees” (Gen 16:13).

These various El epithets are associated with different shrines: El Shaddai with Bethel, El the Most High, the creator of the heavens and the earth, with Jerusalem, El the Eternal with Beersheba, El who sees with Beerlahai-roi, and El the god of Israel with Shechem.6 Many of these shrines and altars to El were established by the patriarchs themselves (e.g., Gen 21:33, 28:18, 33:20, 35:14). It has also been suggested that the name Yahweh might have originally been a cultic epithet of El! The etymology of Yahweh, yhwh, is still unclear, but one proposal is to see it as the causitive imperfect of the Canaanite-Proto-Hebrew verb hwy, “to be.”7

It is propable therefore, as many commentators have contended, that the early Israelites actually worshiped El through his epithet ‘Yahweh.’ This process of assimilation is usually presented the other way around in the biblical literature: Yahweh is worshiped through the epithets of El: Shaddai, Olam, and Elyon.

Contrary to these biblical traditions that suggest an assimilation between Yahweh and El, there are other passages that seem to indicate that Yahweh was a separate and independent deity within El’s council. Deuteronomy 32:8-9 is one of those rare biblical passages that seemingly preserves a vestige of an earlier period in proto-Israelite religion where El and Yahweh were still depicted as separate deities: Yahweh was merely one of the gods of El’s council! This tradition undeniably comes from older Canaanite lore.

When the Most High (’elyĂ´n) gave to the nations their inheritance, when he separated humanity, he fixed the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of divine beings. For Yahweh’s portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage.

There are two points to take away from this passage. First, the passage presents an apparently older mythic theme that describes when the divine beings, that is each deity in the divine counsel, were assigned and allotted their own nation. Israel was the nation that Yahweh received. Second, Yahweh received his divine portion, Israel, through an action initiated by the god El, here identifiable through his epithet “the Most High.” In other words, the passage depicts two gods: one, the Most High (El), is seen as assigning nations to the divine beings or gods (the Hebrew word is elohim, plural “gods”) in his council; the other, Yahweh, is depicted as receiving from the first god, the Most High, his particular allotment, namely the people of Israel. Similarly, in another older tradition now preserved in Numbers 21:29, the god Chemosh is assigned to the people of Moab.

Other biblical passages reaffirm this archaic view of Yahweh as a god in El’s council. Psalm 82:1 speaks of the “assembly of El,” Psalm 29:1 enjoins “the sons of El” to worship Yahweh, and Psalm 89:6-7 lists Yahweh among El’s divine council.

Thus there seems to be ample evidence in the biblical record to support the claim that as Yahweh become the supreme national deity of the Israelites, he began to usurp the imagery, epithets, and old cultic centers of the god El. This process of assimilation even morphed the linguistic meaning of the name El, which later came to mean simply “god,” so that Yahweh was then directly identified as ’el—thus Joshua 22:22: “the god of gods is Yahweh” (’el ’elohim yhwh).

Noteworthy also is the fact that unlike the god Baal, there is no polemic in the Bible against El, and all the old cultic centers of El, those in Jerusalem, Shechem, and Beersheba, were later accredited to Yahweh. Since the large majority of patriarchal narratives that speak of shrines and altars to El are found in the northern kingdom, such as Bethel and Shechem, and, on the other hand, many biblical texts seem to accredit Yahweh’s origin to the southern Negeb, current scholarly hypothesis is that the worship of El in the north and of Yahweh in the south eventually merged. This thesis finds further support in the incident of Jeroboam, who may have acted to reestablish the cult of Yahweh-El at Dan and Bethel via his “golden bulls” (#155). In sum, the biblical literature, spanning as it does hundreds of centuries of cultural and the cultic traditions, preserves divergent views, portraits, theologies, and origins of its god Yahweh. We will come across others.

======================

So apart from a personal view of no gods with or without wings, I suspect David C Pack is just spinning more time killing foolishness which one, as "The Foolish Shephard" would, of course be expected to do to fit the title, as he does. 











Bob Thiel's "Man Of God" In Africa On The Run From The Police

 


Almost-arrested Radson Mulozowa 

with his kissing cousin wife 

being interviewed by Police


Lets see how Bob Thiel lies about this: 

Here we see a sick Radson Mulozowa begging Police not to arrest him on recent fraud charges as he claims he was too sick to go to prison. So, the Police let him go to the hospital with a warning to see them in 2 Days. Of course, he didn't show up to the Police station, now he's been on the run. 
 
The charges are as follows: 
 
My son Andre and me personally sponsored 130 Bibles to a tune of $1,400.00, plus also gave Radson Mulozowa an extra $600.00 to distribute the Bibles. He showed us the Bibles in his house a few days before we left for the CCOG Feast in Malawi 2021. He promised to give out the Bibles to all leaders in Malawi and Mozambique and one Bible to each household. 
 
Shortly after, I started getting allegations that the Bibles were never distributed. Radson Mulozowa assured me they were distributed but he didn't take pictures as his phone wasn't working and the allegations were false. I believed him because Dr Thiel said Evans Ocheing ordained him and Evans can be trusted as a Man of God.   
 
Fast forward, when I questioned Radson Mulozowa at the Police station during my recent trip to Malawi, he denied that he even knew me and denied I had anything to do with the Bibles. I was shocked he would lie to my face. So, I knew right then he sold those Bibles and lied. I stared at him the whole time and he wouldn't even look at me. Then I showed the authorities the proof of my receipts of money sent to him to purchase Bibles and also funds given to distribute Bibles. Also, the pictures we took at his house with the Bibles. The Police gave him 2 Days to bring evidence. Radson claimed he had a list of people given Bibles at his office. Police told him to come back on Monday with list. He of course never showed up or called. Can we say not good? 
 
Another thing that shocked me was Dr. Thiel's letter to the Police in defence of Radson Mulozowa saying I had no right to investigate the allegations. I really lost totally any respect I had for Dr. Thiel, for this action of trying to defend a criminal so the truth wouldn't come out. 
 
By the way Dr. Thiel knows full well who the American in Malawi was trying to impersonate him. He just doesn't want to admit it, as he always avoids answering questions or carefully guards his words to avoid responsibility. Also, what I find interesting in this videos Radsons' Kissing Cousin Wife that Dr. Thiel has been saying isn't a wife but his Cousin, really Folks!!!!!!!! 
 
The Rabbit Hole gets Deeper!! Terry Nelson