Friday, February 25, 2011

Imbibing With the Apostle





Pictured above is the current price of Louis XIII Remy Martin Grande Champagne Cognac.

This was one of Herbert Armstrong's favorite evening indulgences.  The container  the cognac is in is a baccarat crystal decanter and comes in a velvet lined red case.

At HWA's death there were three of these sitting on his liquor shelves in the basement, along with loads of other expensive alcoholic delights.  Upstairs there were two more in the cabinets.

When HWA was buying these (or should I say the church members were with their tithe money) he was paying around $750.00.  That was in the mid-1980's.  Twenty-five years later the price is running at $2,195.00.  That is one expensive indulgence!  Particularly when he was drinking it out of his St Louis Excellence Cognac/sherry glasses that were appraised at $250.00 each  in 2000.

15 comments:

Douglas Becker said...

At least he wasn't a cheap drunk.

Anonymous said...

What a pity Perbert's liver couldn't discriminate between premium or skid row cognac.

Still, it was a miracle how God protected the Apostle's liver/ neurons from such an inhuman daily onslaught of alcohol.

Anonymous said...

but he was an easy drunk

Anonymous said...

Ministers used to justify the extravagant lifestyles of the elite in the church, "CEOs and other executive officers in Fortune 500 companies are compensated better for their skills. The least we can do is provide this much as just compensation to the men led by God."

Jebus, the people bought it.

As astounding as it seems, a numerous chorus of WCG critics that wail the tithe abuses, those self-same mighty warriors for the painful truth, will defend the abuses of state sponsored oppression of basic freedoms, will defend socialism, big gov't taxation, and all the spending abuses.

You see, we replace one supreme leader with another. We replace Herbie with Joe, with Junior, with pick your current leader. We replace the frat boy with the Chicago way. We replace one god with another. We replace diamond encrusted, gold crucifixes with special expensive crystal. We replace popes with apostles, that replace swamis, that replaced the high priests of Ra. We replace tithes with offerings, we complain about taxes while sending in a sizable donation to the United Way. We replace one philosophy with another. And we kowtow to all our fearless new leaders, whether we know it or not.

A toast then... to all humans being sheep! Here here. As David Hannum said (not P.T. Barnum), "There's a sucker born every minute"

Now, if you will excuse me, I have to work it for THE MAN.

James said...

Anon wrote the following:

"As astounding as it seems, a numerous chorus of WCG critics that wail the tithe abuses, those self-same mighty warriors for the painful truth, will defend the abuses of state sponsored oppression of basic freedoms, will defend socialism, big gov't taxation, and all the spending abuses."

The Painful Truth does not endorse oppression, socialism or big government taxation. This site is pro-America, unlike the cults using Herbert Armstrong's tainted name to promote their own
Family Business™.

The opinion on my blog are those of the author and not necessarily those of the Painful Truth.

Anonymous said...

Re: "a numerous chorus of WCG critics that wail the tithe abuses, those self-same mighty warriors for the painful truth will defend the abuses of state sponsored oppression of basic freedoms, will defend socialism, big gov't taxation, and all the spending abuses. "

1) Please notice that "painful truth" was not capitalized and therefore is not an opinion on the web blog Painful Truth. Sorry if that was the unintended message. That wasn't my intent. The comment was about certain people that are warriors for the painful truth of WCG and tithe abuses.

Painful truth, in this case, is a phrase borrowed from lawyer, libertarian, and radio talk show host Neal Boortz (aka The High Priest of The Church of the Painful Truth). The painful truth is about WCG's behavior.

2) Notice I use the term "a numerous chorus" of people that seek the painful truth of Herbie's lifestyle. I did not say all people. It certainly was never my intention to state ALL, as I know many like myself that oppose any autocracies and dictatorships.

3) Regarding the point of my comment, many friends and family that complained and left WCG over it's repressive policies (tithing being the issue here on the blog), now embrace a form of political philosophy that could best be described as progressive socialist.

A quick glance at my Face Book page shows "a numerous chorus" of ex-WCG wanting complete government control of life and have no problems with crippling taxation.

Summary: The point of my initial comment was not to defame the web blog Painful Truth, but to illustrate that a numerous chorus of those that embrace the painful truth (of Herb's lifestyle), are jumping from the frying pan into the fire in regards to intrusive government control and excessive taking of personal freedoms and monies.

Hope I clarified my position. I still maintain the main thrust of my initial tongue-in-cheek comment "We replace one philosophy with another. And we kowtow to all our fearless new leaders, whether we know it or not."

Douglas Becker said...

Apparently Anonymous with his non sequitur comparison with misfortune 500 companies and the WCG Church Corporate has not checked the recent history of Mark Hurd at HP.

This is interesting because it represents a distorted perception mindset adopted by Armstrongists: Take a snatch of one topic, take an unrelated topic and then with a leap of illogic, make the two comparible. There are several mental disorders which are associated with this phenomenon of fantasy.

This is the mindset which takes 10 tribes of Israel, which are supposed to receive the blessings of Jacob, look at Britain and the United States and then come to the completely unsupported conclusion that because of the prosperity of the United States, it must be Manassah. One could also make the argument that because Rome was so blessed as a "world ruling empire" it was actually the 10 tribes of Israel.

From all the data we have from the behavior of Herbert Armstrong, he was an alcoholic. At least he exhibited all the symptoms. It's too bad we couldn't administer the simple test given by Dr. James Milam at the Milam Recovery Centers [BTW, it CAN be performed on Gerald Flurry, since he's still alive].

It is true that CEOs and other executive officers in the Fortune 500 are compensated better for their skills. Furthermore, some hanky panky is tolerated... for a time... if it is discrete -- but be warned, there are limits [and in case you don't think I know what I am talking about, think again: I was a manager at a Fortune 50 Company Headquarters and I can tell stories... but not here].

People should remember too, the rank and file member out there in, say, Quincy, Washington -- with what, a couple widow ladies? -- were not necessarily privy to the goings on of the abjectly immoral administrators and ministers in the power structure who took advantage of having no accountability. A lot of us didn't know anything about it until John Trechak and others started the Ambassador Report.

This seems to be a mixed message. So what will it be? Was the behavior unacceptable or not? Is anon saying that Herbert Armstrong should be able to be a drunk then?

I think the message is that we are all stupid and never get any smarter.

Which, if you think about it, would be the message of someone who is stupid and will never get any smarter.

Anonymous said...

Wrote a response to James. The blog said it posted, but it didn't? For the life of me, I hate when that happens. The response was lengthy and unsaved, so here goes again.

1) The phrase "painful truth" was not intended as a comment on the web blog Painful Truth. Sorry. I can see where someone might jump to that conclusion upon casual reading.

It was intended as a comment on "a numerous chorus" etc "those self-same mighty warriors for the painful truth (about WCG and what happened).

I am aware of the site, but the phrase painful truth is used elsewhere and is my intended reference. (ex. Neal Boortz calls himself the high priest of the church of the painful truth. Big fan of Boortz and I'm fond of the phrase painful truth long before reading a blog by that name). It was a phrase not a direct comment on any blog by that name.

2) A numerous chorus is a number more than 3 and less than 30. Didn't say a few and didn't say all but I did call them a chorus, though I think the altos are singing flat.

3) Of all the ex-wcg people I know, there is a vocal chorus, that is numerous in number (more than a few but less than all). Those people realize "the painful truth" of the excesses of WCG (including the Tkach present) but now they subscribe to a philosophy that is just as constraining upon their freedom. Point is they jump from frying pan to fire.

4) Which gets us back to the issue at hand found in my summary:

"...We replace one philosophy with another. And we kowtow to all our fearless new leaders, whether we know it or not."


5) Doug Becker:

My original comment concerning HWA drinking expensive booze from expensive crystal, living like a king is as follows (READ CAREFULLY):

"MINISTERS used to justify the extravagant lifestyles of the elite in the church, "CEOs and other executive officers in Fortune 500 companies are compensated better for their skills. The least we can do is provide this much as just compensation to the men led by God. JEBUS, THE PEOPLE BOUGHT IT."

Please point to a non-sequitor in my account of how the ministers justified HWA Tkach and evangelist lifestyles to that lifestyle featured in the commentary posted on this blog?

Doug, then you go off on British Israelism again. I don't subscribe to BI or Christian Identities. No where did I write such things. Your obsession on BI is baffling?

I get it from the day I jumped on this board: DOUG THINKS BI IS A MENTAL DISORDER.

Anonymous said...

Okay, I posted two responses and they were both removed.

Ken said...

Imbibing With the Apostle commercial.

http://tinyurl.com/4q2r423

NO2HWA said...

Your posts were not removed. It is Blogger doing it. They went into Spam, so they are posted below.

Douglas Becker said...

"MINISTERS used to justify the extravagant lifestyles of the elite in the church, "CEOs and other executive officers in Fortune 500 companies are compensated better for their skills. The least we can do is provide this much as just compensation to the men led by God. JEBUS, THE PEOPLE BOUGHT IT."

What people bought the explanation? Out in the hinterland, the people I've known did not know what was going on, did not know about the comparison between CEOs and what was going on and, hence -- as far as those out in the hinterland were concerned -- could not possibly have bought it.

In the long term, it didn't matter because the long term the people didn't buy it -- AC and the WCG have been gone for awhile, so Abraham Lincoln's observation that you can't fool all the people all the time stands.

Gavin Rumney was the first to start the campaign against BI about six years ago. Let's just say that we're doing a little presales. So if you don't believe in it, go with the flow and you will be rewarded a little while down the line and find it all very satisfying when it comes together.

Douglas Becker said...

A few months ago, in discussing the perspectives concerning the Feasts with a minister in the Church of God Seventh Day -- although it was not the only issue -- the minister mentioned that one of the disincentives for the CoG7 for keeping the Feasts, particularly the Feast of Tabernacles, was the example of the abuse of alcohol.

Herbert Armstrong was not the only abuser of alcohol. Reports of headquarters ministers have been registered. I attended a Pentecost Service in the morning where the Evangelist stumbled up the steps to the lecturn because he was quite drunk before 10:30 that Sunday morning.

The bad example -- the terrible example -- has been excessive and some people in other churches -- both Sabbath keeping and not -- have been horrified by it.

Since I was a manager in a Fortune 50 company and also an analyst for a major computer vendor, I personally noted that some of the Corporate Headquarters personnel of United States Corporations did have significant problems with excessive alcohol abuse in the Seventies. Some of the vendors threw drinking parties at their vendor conferences for their customers and the consumption was nothing less than impressive. [The Sunday after the Xmas party at one governmental agency thrown by a grateful vendor had four large conference tables filled with half full liquor bottles -- and you name one, it was probably on the table.] When I met some of the same people ten years later, they had all -- the ones who have survived -- stopped drinking. In fact, by the 1990s, most major corporations had policies in place which shut down alcoholic management. It isn't absolutely universal, but it seems that the Corporations learned their lesson... for the most part. From my admittedly limited view.

On the other hand, while this was not a major cause of the decline and fall of the Armstrongist Empire, it certainly didn't help that the place was apparently run by drunks.

Anonymous said...

guys...guys, chill...have a drink!
:)

Douglas Becker said...

Which is exactly what caused the problem in the first place....