Sunday, September 2, 2012

Homer Kizer Responds

Homer writes:

I was called to reread prophecy, not to make disciples nor to make nice with bloggers or the little people whose pantry shelves hold more than their minds. I neither ask for support nor take up an offering at weekly Sabbath services or on high days. And without asking for support, I am truly more financially impoverished than any critic I may have—and considering what I write, especially that the Book of Acts is a Trojan text, a Sophist novel, I should have a host of critics. So for the person who will take the time to follow the money, the trail is short: let it be known, I don’t reread prophecy, placing in print, hardcopy and electronic, what I find in Scripture because I want the adulation of disciples or the wealth of this world. I have already lived, from my perspective, in the choicest places in North America—the Oregon Coast, Kenai, Kodiak, Dutch Harbor—so it isn’t for material reasons I have declared since 2003 that there will be a Second Passover liberation of Israel, the nation to be circumcised of heart, from indwelling sin and death. I have nothing to gain from declaring a necessarily unpopular message, especially among uncovered firstborns, biological and legal. But it was to this task that I was called, and it is this task that I have done and will do and will continue to do.

Actually, I am surprised by how rare criticism of what I write is, considering the radical nature of what I have placed in print. And I appreciate knowing that someone has read my words. Now, if these readers will take the time necessary to look up the scriptural passages I cite and determine for themselves if I have faithfully cited the passage, using the passage in a reasonable manner, they may still disagree with me but they will find that there is no attempt to deceive, to make disciples, to enrich myself. The work I do is unlike any since the days of the Apostle Paul, and the very small amount of support received about equals what is spent on websites and office supplies. The bulk of my income comes from the work of my hands, past and present.
Would I have more credibility if there were many disciples and a mega-Church-complex, a television and radio broadcast, a slick magazine (that says nothing), and a reporter in Jerusalem … no, I wouldn’t. I would merely have more critics, with more screeching, squealing, their diminutive minds scurrying about searching for discrepancies (where I said such and such in 2003, but now say something a little different in 2012, as if I ceased to grow in grace and knowledge when setting out to reread prophecy).

My credibility will come with the Second Passover, or wouldn’t come ever. And that is fine with me. HK

This is in response to previous posting of Homer Kizer: Unrepentant Firstborn Will Be Slaughtered On Passover (Again)


Carolyn said...

«The work of maintaining the website for The Philadelphia Church, for maintaining my websites and the other associated websites is done by my wife, who also works as I do, without pay. And she works long hours; for she is not a professionally trained IT person. Without her, little would get done. So the diminutive wit of a critic will more likely experience her wrath than mine; for I don’t bother to investigate who says what about me. I don’t really care.»

Actually, it was myself, the wife, who posted the quote from Homer, and he's right about the wrath--but, at least the witness is getting out …

Anonymous said...

Being sincere, working long hours, receiving little pay, being humble, being a good Bible reader and many other things do not make one's beliefs true.

All prophetic ideas, interpretations, speculations and feelings are just that. Hundreds of thousands of christians and ministers have done this for thousands of years and here we are.

Mental hospitals, outpatient counselors, churches and organizations are overflowing with the sincere and speculative Bible readers.

It is not sincerity one needs to be cautious of. It is being propelled down the wrong road and letting others filter our world for us.

M.T. Musings

Anonymous said...

why do some go to so much trouble to get others to view the world through their ideas and eyes? They never seem able or willing to see the world through the ideas or eyes of anyone but themselves.

You will never hear Dave Pack, Ron Weinland, Gerald Flurry etc EVER say the words, "You know, you are correct, I was wrong on that."

I guess one would have to read a book outside of one's beliefs to even be explosed to the possibility of being off base

Anonymous said...

I like Homer, he's got the 'end-time Elijah' look. The COG casting director should consider making a Jerusalem reporter replacement or addition. The current daily show they're running there now, has proven to be a big flop.

If only Stephen would share his airtime with Homer, then we'll have the greatest Feast/Show ever.

Anonymous said...

He said his credibility would be established when he successfully predicted the future based upon his interpretation of an old book of fairy tales. He seems to have counted the cost and made peace with the flip side of the coin, the possibility that his credibility will never be established.

Right or wrong, he seems like he's very sincere and his heart in the right place.

In the mean time, he seems to be oblivious to potential damage he might do to all the mental weaklings who figure he's too sincere to be wrong, and then waste their time, money, energy and life on his interpretations of a book full of fairy tales too. Why doesn't Homer bother to count that cost? Why should he care if he misleads other people because it turns out he is full of $#@%?

Why should he care if his actions hurt his fellow man? Oh, wait, let me see, the book he believes in so much says he has a duty not to hurt other people.

If these guys really followed the words of the book they claim they follow, they would think of others too, and not just themselves. If they did that, they would have to count the full cost of their actions, not just their own individual cost. Then they wouldn't dare ask other people to take silly risks along with them.

In short, if they did what Jesus said, they would have to STFU!

I guess Homer has some more rereading to do...

Anonymous said...

Just as Homer said about not caring what others think, others don't have to care about what he thinks. We don't have to care about what Dave thinks or Gerald or Ron or Rod.

It can be interesting, maddening or pure entertainment to listen to what others think about things they cannot possible know anything about in reality, but we don't have care ultimately.

There is no penalty for saying that's intereting, that's stupid, that's assinine or that's simply not true.

Keep your radar on when others claim to know all things God, Spirit, Angelic and unseen.

Anonymous said...

It's good to know, Homer is still out there. He left his reader(s) hanging over the summer. Hopefully, he will resume posting his 'work' soon. Reading a collection of ideas, is, by far, much better than relying on the silly notion of "it all revolves around a man". *(Gerald Flurry has worn that lie out)

I will miss the sharp Ron Fraser when he goes; I hear he is expected to die soon. Without him will truly be a "slick magazine (that says nothing)". To be sure, the less columnists the PCG has in its arsenal, the more likelihood of Gerald getting into big end-time trouble.

Anonymous said...

"My credibility will come with the Second Passover, or wouldn’t come ever. And that is fine with me." HK

Spoken with a true sense of sorta somewhat, I like saying this stuff and willing to risk scoring by chance, but if not, I don't care, don't scoff..conviction.


Byker Bob said...

I always have a difficult time with someone who, instead of just simply doing what they think is right or what they feel they have been called to do, spends a lot of time going through all the human reasoning of making themselves palatable, or explaining why they should be credible.

Someone who is doing God's work, imo, would be channeling God or Jesus. Not guessing, not indulging in a lot of P.R., and actually really not caring about the results because in the end it's all up to God. Growth and credibility aren't things you set up around yourself. They can be a blessing from God, or they could be an indicator of a convincing false teacher. It's the fruits, good or bad, that count.

No, this is just another human, another guesser, just a slightly different shade of Armstrongite.


Anonymous said...


You wrote, in part: " the end it's all up to God..."

A statement like that makes a lot of sense when I read verses like the following:

"Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS, but according to HIS own purpose and grace, which was GIVEN us in Christ Jesus BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN," 2 Timothy 1:9

"NOT BY WORKS of righteousness which WE HAVE DONE, but according to his mercy HE saved us, BY the washing of regeneration, AND renewing of the Holy Ghost;

And yes, those fruits mentioned are important: is one bearing God's fruits or the fruits of someone/something else?...


Sharon said...


I was part of the COG for over 45 years. During that time literally hundreds of men, and a couple of women, declared that had new insight revealed to them that was important to the church. So far every single one of them have been a failure. What make you any different?

On the theological side I don't see anything you have to offer is worthwhile. On the human side I find your carving and the historical reenactments that you and your wife do to be fascinating. I am sure sitting down with you would be a fascinating evening, as long as theology was left out of it.

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

What is a Homer Kizer?

I seem to remember his name involved with Norman Edwards and some controversy with Port Austin white elephant real estate? From my recollection, it was yet another shining example of christian behavior - a light to the world - which WCG has a long and deep tradition. Yeah right, and pigs fly!


Assistant Deacon said...

Reading Kizer's comments makes me feel like I've lost my mind.

Thankfully, I need only go to my pantry shelves to find it.

Anonymous said...

Don't focus too much on Homer, this week. Remember, Malm is a jealous "Apostle".

Like HWA would say, "These are NOT the two witnesses, you are looking for".

Anonymous said...

I don't know if these people like Homer believe in God. But they sure do believe in THEMSELVES!

Anonymous said...

"I was called to...

...I neither ask for support nor take up an offering at weekly Sabbath services or on high days...

But it was to this task that I was called..."

The big, burning question for Homely Kizer is quite simply, WHO CALLED YOU??? Think now! Was it Satan?

There are now many former WCG people who all claim that they have somehow been "called" to say or do one thing or another. Who am I to say that they were not called? Maybe Satan did appear to be calling each of them in a way that seemed to be very real to them.

At least Homer says he does not ask for support. This is better than most deluded, lying, self-appointed, former WCG people. They usually ask for other people's money (OPM) so they won't have to do any work for a living, other than just writing fiction.

For example, James D. Malm rebelled against Herbert W. Armstrong and left the Worldwide Church of God in 1985 while HWA was still alive, and recently criticized HWA for always wanting more money. Even more recently, James discovered that he'd like some more money himself from his own followers.

Norman S. Edwards went from the Worldwide Church of God to Roderick C. Meredith's Global Church and then went off on his own. HWA had said that government was everything. Early on in his own work, Norman Edwards wrote a paper called How Does the Eternal Govern Through Humans? Norman flat-out rejected the teachings of Herbert W. Armstrong about hierarchical government. Though he claimed to have everything figured out, Norman Edwards wanted people to write articles about the topic of church government and send them to him for his consideration and for possible publication in his Servants' News newsletter. He claimed to be willing to consider pretty much anything and everything under the sun. This would have sounded very open-minded and reasonable, except that he went on to say that the only thing that he would not publish, and would not even consider, and did not even want to receive, were articles that supported the hierarchical government ideas that Herbert W. Armstrong had taught in the Worldwide Church of God. Far from honestly searching for the truth, Norman Edwards was clearly a rebel with an agenda.

After so many years of rejecting HWA's teachings about hierarchical government in the church, Norman Edwards seems to have ended up wanting to be in charge. He was sort of the "leader" of the "leaderless independents" as Bob Thiel once put it. This is like trying to herd cats, not sheep. Why should anyone submit to the very man who taught for so long not to submit to anyone? Norman Edwards and Homer Kizer did not get along well.

Anonymous said...

It was as if he was hiding in a cave all summer. But, after a three-month prophetic recording hiatus, Homer is back! A new inspirational page can be found in his commentary section. Truly, Homer is the Elijah Hemingway of our time.

Anonymous said...

Homer's light could be likened to a bonfire, to Malm's flickering candle.

Anonymous said...

Homer writes: "for where the Body is, there the eagles will gather to feed." He must have some real insight, to know of a PCG minister named Eagle.

Thanks to Homer's inspired words, the frightful imagery of eagles and eaglets feeding on sheep, will be forever with me.

Anonymous said...

"I always have a difficult time with someone who, instead of just simply doing what they think is right or what they feel they have been called to do, spends a lot of time going through all the human reasoning of making themselves palatable, or explaining why they should be credible."

Maybe I'm surprised, because in the universe in which I live, Jesus has not made such 'sleazebag sales tactics' Holy.

I'm sure some would like me to expand my universe to let "Sleazy Jesus" in.

But to do that would be a sin.


Anonymous said...

For the Lord to take back Israel in the flesh would be to go against His own law to which any close reader of scripture could find in Exodus.

However it's recorded that He will take them back, but it won't be in the flesh or by blood. Homer is on to something...and just like the man standing in front of a mirror doesn't see himself, but only a reflection of himself, can one see in this manner in to how a second Passover liberation is possible, for a nation that's neither male nor female.

Anonymous said...

Norman S. Edwards went from the Worldwide Church of God to Roderick C. Meredith's Global Church of God and then went off on his own to publish what he called his Servants' News newsletter.

I remember one man being surprised to receive a letter from Norman Edwards. The man had no idea how Norman Edwards ever got his name and address. After much thinking about it myself, I now wonder if Norman Edwards had helped himself to the list of names and addresses in the Global Church's database of magazine subscribers while Norman Edwards worked for the Global Church before starting his own Servants' News newsletter.

Carolyn said...

Norman Edwards and his group interviewed me for the position of Administrative Assistant at Port Austin. He revealed in this interview that he had stolen mailing lists and that these names were the basis of his ministry and the basis for the names to be used to solicit funds for this new ministry. I refused to use this database and requested new, fresh software with no stolen names to begin new data entry--he refused to provide it. I further told him, to his face, that his work was crap, and that I would not be party to the perpetuation of a theft. The other men overrode his objection to my hiring, but from that moment he and his wife sabotaged the new work, changed the post office box to which solicitations were to be received and even filed paperwork over the sacred purpose trust to oust the other three men, coopting the new work. It all ended very badly, but Norm is still there bilking the innocent.

Sharon said...

Carolyn: I also have a feeling that Norm stole mailing lists from WCG when he was on his way out. There were various people that had access to those lists who were helping support the various groups leave WCG. That is how all the groups got their initial mailing lists.

When he was in Pasadena hew started getting really weird and saying strange things. He had access to mailing lists at that time. Nothing about the man surprises me.

Helpusall said...

Somehow my husband was sucked into this pathetic self proclaimed prophet by believing he was (chosen)! I assume this is how is usually happens!!!
If I was a believer obviously I'd pray that everyone involved in these teaching go to hell!
On a lighter note please enjoy my monthly tithe HKM complements of my husband! We can't afford health insurance but you are first on our list of necessities