Thursday, May 29, 2014

Herbert W Armstrong and His Lust for Money

Many in the various Church of Gods love to deny that Herbert Armstrong was constantly begging demanding money from the members and co-workers.  Yet on the other hand, various COG leaders like Pack, Thiel and Flurry use HWA's letters to demand that their members also send in money.

Several years ago Norm Edwards posted an article detailing HWA's incessant demands for money.

Norm writes:

The main thrust of most of Mr. Armstrong’s co-worker letters was events of "the work". The stories of his successes have been recounted many times in his autobiography and other Worldwide Church of God literature. What is not often told is the story of the incredible number of requests for money made to co-workers—along with the vast array of methods employed to get them to give.
 Once a co-worker sent in a few bucks for their booklets and /or offerings they started receiving the co-worker letter that also went to the membership.

Edwards continues:
 Of his 618 letters, 525 mention financing in some way. The word "offering(s)" appears in 423 letters, "money" in 378 and "tithe(s)" in 376. No small number of letters were primarily emergency appeals for finances. Over 100 letters contain the word "emergency" .

I remember my mother getting these letters and how she would scrap to find money to send in, much to the detriment of the family finances.

By contrast, nearly every letter also mentioned prayer and praying for "the work". Phrases about the Eternal’s power appear in many letters: "Holy Spirit" is in 134 letters and "Spirit of God" or "God’s spirit" in 128 letters, and "power of God/Christ/Jesus" in 77 letters. "Work of faith" is in 15 letters. But the number of words about money greatly exceed those about prayer and the power of God. "Praying for more money" and "for others to send more money" were frequent themes.

Edwards then continues with this indictment against the incessant begging:

But one thing is certain: A few of his longest co-worker letters contain more words on the subject of "financing the work" than can be found in the entire New Testament.  The New Testament does not record one case where some evangelistic activity was not accomplished due to lack of funds. It clearly shows that the Spirit of the Eternal directed the activities, and that The Eternal would provide for physical necessities.
Norm Edwards then mentions something that I did not remember.  He points out that HWA demanded that offerings be above and beyond regular tithes and that God would KILL anyone that mixed up the two!

May 5, 1969: Now about the annual Holy Day offerings. 

HWA writes: I am discouraged and sorely disheartened, Brethren, because THE FACTS ARE that on these seven occasions, the receipt of money at Headquarters to carry on the Work of God drops off AS MUCH as the amount put into these offerings! That can only mean one thing! Most of you Brethren are NOT putting in ANY real special Holy Day offering at all, but instead taking what otherwise would have been mailed in-as tithes and normal offerings-and putting THAT into the Holy Day offering! 

Brethren I wonder if that is not doing almost exactly what Ananias and Sapphira did! Please read that again-it is in Acts 5:1-11. They professed that they put in the amount they sold their property for. Peter said THEY LIED to THE HOLY SPIRIT. They DROPPED DEAD! If YOU profess that what you put in the Holy Day offering is a SPECIAL HOLY DAY OFFERING, when it is only a regular offering, is not that about the same thing? Brethren, in the name of Jesus Christ I say I WOULD BE AFRAID to do such a thing!
Edwards continues:

It is interesting to compare this warning with the Worldwide Church of God use of funds: Third tithe was used, at times, for expensive mansions and jet fuel. Excess second tithe and "tithe of tithe" were not always used for festivals or assistance, but simply put back into the WCG general fund. Mr. Armstrong does not seem to consider that his co-workers may have already been giving everything they had available on a regular basis, so they could not come up with extra for Holy Day offerings. He continually encouraged them to send in anything that they had available "right now" by air-mail.
Not only were HWA's demands geared towards the more well to do in the church, but he demanded that even widows send in more than necessary:

We also must realize that Mr. Armstrong was not asking only the well-off to give out of their abundance, but the poor. "Widow’s mites" are mentioned in 98 of his letters. He was careful to point out that widows should give more than one mite:

November 20, 1945: Co-Workers, I have to appeal to you now—this greatly-multiplied program is NOW GOING OUT—we need the widow’s mites IN LARGE NUMBER now as never before—from many who may not be able to send in more, and have sent nothing for some time!
June 9, 1947: I know that, while MOST of our Co-Workers are in poor economic circumstances and can send only the "widow’s MITES"—notice it was "MITES," not just one "mite,"—and while it is these many small amounts of a couple dollars, or a five or ten, that are the very BACKBONE OF THIS WORK...
March 30, 1969: Remember that even the widow’s mites HELP GREATLY in this Work.

So what was a member to do when they had exhausted their supply of money?  You were to take out loans on your home or business borrow money or find some other way of sending in more money.

When it became clear that co-workers could not give enough money, Herbert Armstrong also asked for monetary loans, a practice never used in Scripture to support the Eternal’s work (an axe was borrowed in 2Kngs 6:5, but not money).

October 29, 1947: Now, even at greatest sacrifice by all, I realize that we are not going to be able to raise all this money quickly enough by tithes, offerings, and gifts. A few of our co-workers have helped us up to now by LOANING us money they have felt they could not GIVE. Some have said they may never need to take the money back, but in case they do need it, they have our note and guarantee it will be promptly repaid. One or two had money saved up they may need a year or two from now, and they have placed this money at our disposal to help us over this terrible emergency, letting their money WORK FOR GOD now, to be repaid to them, if, and when they will need it, later. One has borrowed money on some property he owned, and we are making the payments to him to pay his bank, as the payments and interest come due. Some have sold bonds, or securities, and loaned us the cash, to be paid back in the manner that fits the needs of each one in each case. We need now to borrow several thousand dollars more on this basis. In each case I give the lender a note, binding the Radio Church of God, incorporated, to repay on whatever terms are agreed upon, as fit the need of the lender.
Numerous co-worker letters continue to talk about these loans and the complex circumstances surrounding their repayment. Can anyone imagine Christ or the apostles talking about borrowing money to board a ship to preach the Gospel, and hoping to pay the loan back with money they received from the city they visited? But Mr. Armstrong kept asking for private loans through his co-worker letter of December 29, 1969. After this time, Mr. Armstrong writes about obtaining loans from banks and insurance companies. Why the change? One possibility is that by that time the WCG had so much real estate that it could easily obtain bank loans. It is also possible that the members realized that Mr. Armstrong planned not to pay back most of those loans:

March 30, 1969: Now WE knew, from years of experience, that only about 20% of these loans would be demanded for repayment—80% eventually would be converted to donations. But a banker examining our financial statement would not know that. Actually, we maintained a 20% cash reserve to back up these loans. Actually our practice was TWICE AS SAFE as bank practice. But we cannot afford to have it LOOK unsound. God’s Work MUST NOT BE BROUGHT INTO DISCREDIT by any act or oversight of ours!

So I have had to ask all of you who can to cancel out your loans by converting them into donations or freewill offerings. And, if you simply CANNOT do that at this time, to convert them into FIVE-YEAR loans instead of demand loans—that is, we would not be legally bound to repay more than 20% in any one year. I have explained that, IF an unexpected emergency should arise and you should seriously need more than 20% at any time, we would try to accommodate you and do the best we could, at our own discretion—but without legal obligation.
At "our discretion-but without legal obligation."  This is a church that is saying this.  A church that "professes" to love its members who are on a journey towards the Kingdom of God together.  Sadly this has been the mantra for the Church of God from HWA on to this very day.  When the WCG was terminating employees and ministers this phrase was said over and over to each person.  "We owe you nothing - but at our discretion we might give you a stipend or a small token of appreciation."  In reality they gave nothing to hundreds of ministers and employees who served the church over the decades.  That is another post for another day though.

Armstrong claimed this "loan practice" was far more safe than banks.  Armstrong ultimately was working a mind boggling ponzi scheme that he got away with.

 Edwards writes:
In reality, Mr. Armstrong’s practice was not "twice as safe as bank practice". Mr. Armstrong may have kept 20% in reserve where banks only kept 10%, but banks invested the other 90% of their money anticipating all of it back, whereas Mr. Armstrong spent the other 80% of his money. If a bank ran short of money, it could sell its investments to pay off its loans. But Mr. Armstrong was simply relying on new contributions to pay off old loans. He never once hinted that he would sell assets of his work in order to repay loans.

As it was, the old loan program was replaced by a new kind of loan program. This time, members were asked to borrow the money from their banks, and then give it to the WCG. The letter on the next page tells the story. Notice the underlined portions, where members are given some possible lies to tell their bankers about why they wanted these loans. Notice also that a member must be sure that this loan will not cut into his normal giving. And finally, notice that this was directed toward members who had so little money that they might have to take out a loan to buy a TV or dishwasher. They were expected to forgo these items so the work could...could do what? The letter does not say exactly what the need was for—just "IMMEDIATECASH". While Mr. Armstrong and Stanley Rader probably did borrow $5000 from a bank, it is unlikely that they would have needed to. Their salaries were both over $100,000 per year and later disclosures indicated that both had personal savings of many thousands. They did not go without a TV, dishwasher or limousine to help "save the work"..
Armstrognism, its leaders and publications all work the angle of FEAR to get what they want.


Brethren, do you realize this is the work of ALMIGHTY GOD? Do you realize HE is holding you accountable, according to your ability? It is not yet too late-but if you become a spiritual slacker, there is a Lake of Fire looming ahead, and I say to you in all sincerity and love, and by authority of Jesus Christ, you had better begin to fear and TREMBLE! This is EXPECTED of you, and if we don’t do MORE than expected, we are UNPROFITABLE SERVANTS, and Jesus Christ says that the unprofitable servants are to be thrown into the Lake of Fire! I did not decree that-CHRIST DID!

There is no doubt that people who do not obey Christ will be put into the lake of fire. But in these letters, Mr. Armstrong makes failure to obey him the same as failure to obey Christ. Beside the "stick" of the Lake of Fire, he also dangled the "carrot" of a Place of Safety for those who supported him:

December 8, 1947: Every individual who HEEDS this warning, turns to God, is WATCHING and PRAYING ALWAYS, being filled with God’s Spirit, living by every Word of God, with a life consecrated to Him, will be given special divine protection—taken beforehand to a place of SAFETY—preserved thru the final horrifying tribulation, time of plagues and human anguish soon to visit this earth! 

But if we to whom God has revealed this terrible future thru His divine prophecies fail to heed it—if we fail to each play his or her full part in WARNING this nation and the world, now, while we may—then God says we shall not escape, but He will require the blood of this entire people at our hands!…

I tell you, ON THE AUTHORITY OF JESUS CHRIST, IT IS COMING! Many of you NOW, are in financial condition to DO A LOT MORE than you are doing for GOD’S CAUSE..
Next Edwards throws a bold punch at the motives of Armstrong and the leaders in the COG today.

While the co-worker letters contained numerous requests for money, and asked for all kinds of sacrifice, they contained almost no guidance as to how co-workers might balance these requests with commands in the Bible:

If there is among you a poor man of your brethren, within any of the gates in your land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart nor shut your hand from your poor brother, but you shall open your hand wide to him and willingly lend him sufficient for his need, whatever he needs (Deut 15:7-8). 

But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him? (1Jn 3:17).

A good man leaves an inheritance to his children’s children... (Prv 13:22). 

But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever (1Tim 5:8).

Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world (James 1:27). 

Thanks to computer searching, we can be nearly certain that Herbert Armstrong never explained these verses in his co-worker letters. He talked about the giving of "widow’s mites" in 98 letters, but never once talked about helping to care for widows. Co-workers were left completely on their own to determine how to balance their contributions to Herbert Armstrong’s work with helping those they know that were in need, helping take care of their spouse, taking care of their children, planning for their education, paying for medical bills, or buying things that would save them money in the long run (for example: new, energy-efficient appliances can pay for themselves in a few years by reducing utility bills).
Norm Edwards correctly points out in his article that if HWA and others KNEW that the end was so close and the work was so desperate then they WHY did they spend so much  money on themselves at the detriment of the membership?

Here are a few of the homes that church leaders lived in on Waverly Drive while the membership suffered:

Click to enlarge all pcitures


January 29, 1948: NOWHERE else can this money do so much good, or reach so many people! Except ALMIGHTY GOD interferes, this world faces certain DOOM—utter annihilation of human life on this globe by atomic destruction at the hand of man! The glorious GOOD NEWS of the coming KINGDOM OF GOD, and the SECOND COMING OF CHRIST to at last straighten everything out for us and bring a blinded and deceived humanity understanding, peace, and joyful salvation—the true GOSPEL of Jesus Christ—must now be shouted in great power to the entire world. Soon it will be TOO LATE. NOW is the time! YOU have your part, just as I have mine. I’m doing my very best—will YOU do ALL that YOU CAN? Please rush your offering, as large as possible, as soon as possible—air-mail (now only 5 cents) or even by telegraph.

God bless you—SOMEHOW I know we will be carried through, and this great work will survive and continue on, TO THE END!

Norm continues:

But his work did not endure to the end. A great many of his co-workers did not help others in need, did not attend to their own medical needs, did not plan for their children’s education, did not plan for their retirement, did not plan for their own funerals and now they are dead. "The End" predicted by Herbert Armstrong did not come in his or his listener’s life times and his "great work" is gone. This writer knows of many people who suffered greatly because of the money sent to Herbert Armstrong, and others who appeared to receive miraculous protection through it all—the Eternal may well have honored their zeal. But all of these co-workers will be judged by scriptures like the ones listed above (1Pe 1:17; 2Tim 3:16), not by their response to the co-worker letters of Herbert Armstrong!

Several places, Herbert Armstrong claimed that he would not ask co-workers to do anything that he would not do. He also talked about how he suffered more than any of his readers would ever know. But he virtually never shared any information about how much money he personally received, the type of house he lived in, the cost of his office facilities, the type of clothes he bought, etc. When he wrote about his own personal wealth he was usually claiming to be giving up some of it.

He did sell his home (which was partially paid for by the local congregation) and put the money into "the work" in 1944. But this "forced" him to eat in restaurants for the next three years as he lived in various rented rooms without kitchens. (Most poor people I know who find themselves without a kitchen eat sandwiches and raw fruits and vegetables). Three years later, he admitted that this expense of eating in restaurants was equal to a house payment: "It [the new home] came to us with no down-payment except just three monthly payments in advance, and on monthly payments which just equal what we have had to spend in restaurants for food" (June 9, 1947).

While the members were struggling to send in money, Herbert Armstrong bought these for his dining room table.  These sold at action for $223,500.00!  This does not include the rest of the dining table settings/decorations that were sold for more than $1,000,000.00!  Remember now brethren, you are to use the BEST things available to prepare yourselves for the Kingdom of God where you will be GOD's who deserve the best!  Have a foretaste of that now!
In the late 1970’s when court proceedings and private investigations delved into Herbert Armstrong’s finances, they found that he had a salary of over $200,000 per year, benefits worth hundreds of thousands, and assets he personally used worth millions. When Mr. Armstrong entertained the Ambassador College seniors in the 1970s, he would boast that his table setting cost over $100,000. If he could have served the seniors on a $1000 table setting, every poor person in the church worldwide could have have had a new pair of shoes.
To this very day most leaders in the Church of God defend HWA's extravaganza.  They connive and manipulate brethren to send in as much as they possibly can and then guilt them into sending in more.  When one's salvation is at a stake because an idiot leader like Dave Pack says so, the members tremble in fear and fork over the money.  They are dumb to do so, particularly in this day and age when sooooooo much information is available about the misuse of funds by COG ministers and leaders, how tithing is no a New Covenant stipulation and that no one should fear their leaders.

You can read much more in Norm Edwards article here.


Connie Schmidt said...

I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a Hamburger Today!

Ed said...

I remember keeping the Feast of Tabernacles in Wisconsin Dells sitting on a cold metal chair in a big cold warehouse-like building putting an envelope into the offertory basket. I was feeling more then a bit guilty that I didn't have more to put in. At the same time I worried if I would have a job when I got home because I was keeping the feast for the first time and had already used most of my vacation days for the year. I had to take time off with-out pay.

By contrast I didn't even consider the fact that Armstrong and the top men at headquarters where sitting in expensive homes, eating at expensive resteraunts and drinking expensive adult beverages.

There where two classes in the WCG. The well-off ministry and the tithe slaves that financed them, including a lot of poor people.

Byker Bob said...

Ah, yes! You WANT to do everything your Apostle tells you to do because he is the only one teaching the truth, therefore you have to put up with all of his bullshit. He is the gateway to the place of safety, and the gatekeeper to the kingdom.

Several decades ago, the public's consciousness was raised in the area of charity, first secular ones, then the faith based ones. If the director drove a Mercedes and lived in Beverly Hills, it meant the loading costs were out of balance, and fairness dictated that they be adjusted so that most of the funds actually went to the intended benefiiciaries of the charity. After all, these executives were not captains of industry or business moguls playing with the fruit of their own labor, their work was assumed by the general public to be akin to a "calling". Words like "personal sacrifice" were used.

When I was a young boy, the local Catholic and Protestant churches provided modest living quarters for their clergy. Extravagant living was not a problem. That came into play later on with the televangelists and one-leader nondenominational churches. Many embarrassing details can be hidden under the cloak of a corporation.

Some ministries do subject themselves to fairness standards and monitoring agencies, voluntarily. There are strict auditing procedures in place, and these ministries consider the audits to be a testimony to their good faith and stewardship. We know that HWA would never have subjected himself to such accountability, and neither would his pupils, the leaders of the ACOGs. They enjoy the wealth that abusing their flocks provides, so they teach that they are above accountability. Members are accountable to them, but they are accountable to no one.


Ed said...

Morgan Freeman on his show "through the worm-hole". Made the comment, "Question everything". Good advice. What harm would it be to do that? If what you believe is the bedrock truth then it would validate it. If not then you will be liberated maybe from some harmful beliefs.

Anonymous said...

Take one of these churches prepaid postage envelopes and attach a brick to it and then mail it. They get stuck for the extra cash!

Homer said...

Morgan Freeman's comment was not original. The following is a quote from Thomas Jefferson.

Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.

Thomas Jefferson

Redfox712 said...

This goes on to this day. Just in the latest Living Church News (May-June 2014) Roderick C. Meredith says the following about some of his tithes paying followers within LCG.

LCG members are required to pay three tithes and it is still not enough for Meredith.

"Some of our brethren in God’s Church do not have the genuine “fear” of God. Yes, they claim to be “Christian”—to be followers of Christ. But they seem not to really understand Christ’s warning to “would be” Christians or “part-time” Christians. ...

"These kind of “part-time” Christians are those who often “skip out” on attending Sabbath services or other Church activities on a regular basis. They often have some wonderful “excuses” as to why they are often not there when a sermon is given which they may need in a special way! Some of these people come to church to “get,” to show off, to argue or to just develop a social fellowship. They are not primarily coming to “seek God” and humbly worship their Creator on His commanded Sabbath day. They are not there through a desire to love, to serve and to help their fellow Christians by their presence, their encouragement, etc. These are the peoples whose “hearts” are not truly given to God in His Work. They are not going “all out” to help proclaim His message going to the entire world and honestly do all they can to support the Gospel in every possible way. As Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong put it over and over, “The depth of one’s conversion is often best measured by the degree to which a person’s whole heart is in helping and supporting the very Work of the living God”! ...

"A deeply converted person will have a sense of fulfillment and joy in giving to his God! And he will sincerely want to dedicate his talents, his time and his energy to do everything he can as part of the very Work in which we are all involved! (pp. 1-2.)"

While Meredith lived in that big house shown here so many WCG members threw themselves into poverty because of HWA's exploitative letters. And Meredith greatly benefited from them the entire time.

Anonymous said...

what type response does one need to make to be as a contributor to this one side contributors only in agement site!

noha to arm||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||>

Byker Bob said...

So, what's the result of all HWA's money that we gave him? Certainly nothing good.

I think Jimi Hendrix did more for humanity. Especially having just listened to some rare footage from his August '68 concert at Southern Methodist University in Dallas. He covered Traffic's "Dear Mr. Fantasy", a song I heard every night on "underground" FM radio as I lay awake on my bunk in Del Mar, knowing I was about to get the axe, and wondering what would happen next. At that time, I "knew" the Germans were coming in just four short years, and getting kicked out of AC probably would qualify me as Laodicean. Friends who got expelled before me were already over in Viet Nam, one having been wounded as his barracks was strafed by the V.C.

But, Herpe's moneymaking crap all turned out to be lies not unlike Santa Clause on steroids, and actually, it's been a much better life than I would ever have expected. Some very good friends of mine ended up wasting multiple additional decades of their lives and resources on the cult, but I got off early for bad behavior.


Anonymous said...

And besides . . .

This is anecdotal, and just things I remember hearing, but these stories ring true:

All of a sudden a very highly respected member of the congregation, a willing servant type, considered a shoo-in for ordination to deacon . . . was no longer attending. They had actually begun "counseling" toward his ordination -- whatever nonsense that was -- and they discovered, before very long, he had NEVER tithed. The money thing being first and foremost, he disqualified himself 30 seconds into the process of becoming "somebody" in the church beyond the impoverished "payers."

I also understand that the local minister had records of what members of his congregation paid in. This afforded him the easy-out of saying, when a member wanted to "counsel" about some current difficulty of his, that God was simply afflicting him because he wasn't properly paying his money in as God instructed. A poor substitute for actual advice on how to cope with the trials of life, but the ministers didn't know how to do that anyway.

Wasn't there a booklet called "Your Best Investment?" I sometimes think of all I paid in that way: something I paid in, expecting abundant blessings in return, when what I received was disdain and condescension from the ministers whose way I paid, whose response to me was wondering how I was ever let in.

old EXPCG hag said...

And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. Revelation 13:11

Anonymous said...

Sheesh, God's work is always flat broke, so he has to send his apostle to beg for another handout. Maybe he should just pull himself up by the bootstraps and live within his means, wait some tables on weekends, maybe take out a title loan on the wheel in a wheel or sublet the sea of glass!

Black Ops Mikey said...

Herbert Armstrong was certainly high maintenance, but we need to remember that for him, it wasn't about the money: The money was just a tool to use as leverage for the real center of the universe for him.

It was all about his narcissistic ego.

Herbert Armstrong craved attention from men he considered "important". Everything he said and did was to get him to that goal. All efforts were to stoke his ego.

And he liked revenge: He used the money to put himself in the position of taking vengeance. He would end up the hero in his little life dramas where he "proved" himself right and everybody else wrong. It didn't matter what the topic was: Evolution, British Israelism, the Feasts, tithing -- he had to win and proudly (and loudly) proclaimed his VICTORY!!!!

Brethren, be so grateful to have participated in this great WORK than no one had ever been privileged to participate in ever before! You have made it all possible! To give a narcissist his narcissistic source for his pride and ego. He spared no expense! He had the best quality of everything.

And you all paid for it all and he didn't have to work a day of common labor for it like some of you have!

Praise Herbert Armstrong!

Praise his glorious name!

We are all forever in his debt... or more accurately the debt he put us into.

Minimalist said...

He starts really working the Widow's Mites at the end of WWII when there were many new widows.

Tim said...

You guys should know this, and You probably do!
Herbert W Armstrong's "Home" was only his home when he was there on campus. That was like a few days a YEAR. It was officially called "The Ambassador College Student Social Center" The rest of the time the Students used it more than Mr. Armstrong did. Mr. Armstrong did though invite students, when he was there, to dinners of etiquette(as shown in a Behind the Work film). You guys should know this, since you were there. I don't know about the other "COG" leaders. But The house belonged to Ambassador College. Not Herbert W Armstrong. And blessings came to people who were right with God. People were poor, because of their personal sins, and at times they were poor for character building, and for examples for others who were weak in the faith. You judge everyone by comparing them with how you feel, and how you SEE it. Stop playing games and Lying to the people. Or do you actually remember what was REALLY there, or were you that off base then, that you never paid ANY attention to anything? You clearly don't correctly recall what was taught/said. And you twist any tid bit you heard, or any faint piece that you can remember to whatever juicy story you can create. Doesn't make it the truth though. Please do a thorough study before you "recall" anything. But more importantly, here's one thing, you can change from this way of going and stop this hateful, bitter attitude toward something, that you clearly don't have a clue(anymore) about. You would have to make the effort though. But again, not everybody is called to God's education(from God's Word).
You were taught it. But it will come to remembrance, the correct way, later on. Either sometime soon, or a millennia+ ahead. But it will be brought to remembrance either way.

old EXPCG hag said...

Anonymous Tim, May 30, 2014 at 5:09 PM said...

I hope this isn't Timothy K.(Tim K.) because from the first time I met him up until the last time I spoke to him he was boasting about everything he had done and accomplished in his life, and how SUPERFANTABULOUS he is. He fits right into the HWA mindset!

When I left in 2012, Tim was well on his way, climbing the "kiss the minister's ass ladder" to make it into the PCg's >Kingdom of gOD ON EARTH HEADQUARTERS<(Okie Dokie OK.)

He and his Pharisaical wife sat their "without sin" butts in the back of the room, as Tim was the door-keeper/BOUNCER during services in Fort Worth. I never could figure how Tim could stand up against any unwanted >INTRUDER< as Tim walked with a limp because of a bad hip...HA!

Yes good ole Tim K. was talking to my good ole sister's after I left the PCg and informed them that I owed the PCg money. "Oh Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaally!"

You see, as again confirmed...IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY!!


They owe ME and everyone else they've swindled over the years!!

NOW you see why I have an attitude!

Anonymous said...

It is Timothy Kitchen.

Anonymous said...

Easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle...

Byker Bob said...

Oh, yeah, Tim. And HWA was just innocently "comforting" Dorothy, and the whole church misunderstood and set and expected 1975 all by themselves, and HWA actually lived in rags, ate garbage, and was practically homeless, never living any kind of opulent lifestyle at all, or benefitting in any way, shape, and form from the brethren's tithes and offerings.

You need to get a clue. Some of us went through some pretty severe and tearful crises when we found out the truth and realized that the WCG was a total scam, HWA was a false prophet, and that there was nearly nothing salvageable from the years and resources we'd invested. You may be in for a few surprises yourself. You've done a great job of memorizing and repeating all of the superficial PR spin and slop, but that is all it is. I'd recommend a little honest research.


Anonymous said...

Hey Timmy

Craigmotherfuckinghilburn says Hi!

NO2HWA said...

Timothy Kitchen states that HWA's home was for use by the students, apparently at their whim.

I don't know what planet you are on or who is feeding you your information but you are totally wrong!

The "Social Center" was HWA's personal home, filled with his own clothes, books and other personal belongings. It was for his exclusive use only. No one was permitted into that house unless HWA said so. The employees there where his personal cook and housekeeper. Students were only allowed in for Senior Dinners and did not have access to the house at any other time.

It was named the "Social Center" in order to maintain tax free status for the church.

Other than hosting an occasional dinner for Ambassador Foundation performers or dignitaries it was for HWA's exclusive use only. Students were not even allowed into the garden area.

His office on the second floor at the rear of the house was where he wrote many of his letters and articles. In the basement was a room filled with his personal papers.

Your ludicrous comment that "people were poor because of their sins” is appalling, disgusting and demeaning to those members over the decades that gave every hard earned dime they had so HWA, Meredith and others could live lives of luxury. People did without so HWA could buy and use $100,000 candlesticks, $20,000 gold salt cellars, and $400.00 gold rimmed drinking glasses all the while church members could not pay rents, go to doctors, buy new cars, etc.

I know EXACTLY what was taught since I spent 45 years in the church. I know the theological, spiritual, mental and physical abuse that the church fostered off on the church members for decades. I know how top administrators covered that abuse up over the decades, both knowingly and willingly. These very same men sit in positions of power in the various splinter cults today knowing full well what went on and how they covered it up.

I have seen the suicides of members who could no longer take the abuse. I have seen the lives shattered by rapists and sexual predators. I read the headlines of the WCG members gunned down because a young man could no longer handle the filth that Rod Meredith taught.

You are free to wallow in that hog slop all you want but you will never be able to quiet those who saw through the theological quagmire that is Armstrongism.

Anonymous said...

"People were poor, because of their personal sins..."
The Gospel of Health & Wealth is still alive and well in Armstrongism, I see.

One sabbath the minister would say, "Brethren, we don't believe in the Gospel of Health & Wealth..." And then the next sabbath he'd say, "If you're health is poor, you need to go to god and ask his forgiveness for all those SINS that are preventing him from healing you!" If you CALL it the "Gospel of Health & Wealth" they'll totally deny they preach that. But if you simply describe it they'll readily admit to preaching it.

"...hateful, bitter attitude..."
Sweet. Those hackneyed old catchphrases make me feel so warm and fuzzy inside. LOL!

Anonymous said...

Imagine! Students having not only their own dorm key, but also one for the special Elijah "Student Center" up on the corner. Drinking the wine HWA left there for their use from the solid gold goblets, listening to classical music, and watching HWA's TV! Casually reading the GG Rupert archives and other materials from HWA's personal library. Maybe sampling some of Herman Hoeh's goat cheese that he shared with Herb. Taking a snooze between classes in Herb and Ramona's bedroom. (Come to think of it, maybe that's how the flog log disappeared).

Tim said...

old EXPCG hag(Britain S.): You have just proved what I said about you NOT thoroughly studying, or just remembering tidbits, and creating this fantasy of yours. You do not have your facts straight. Or was that the point?
I do not know you. And 2012? what was that about? You clearly do not know your facts.

Gary L.(NO2HWA): Can you go about anywhere ON ANY CAMPUS, without permission first? Can you go about into every room, every facet of the White House? Museums? Just about any college building, corporate building? No. And to think so, just shows how rebellious to ANYONE'S rules you are. People do need to watch out for those who think they are so important that they can have every clearance in the books. Maybe some do in the Government. Maybe the Jesuits. I wouldn't doubt, that is whom we are dealing with. MAYBE you do have the clearance. Shock to me!(GASP)
You guys are something.

Mike (Don't Drink the Flavor Aid) said...

Shame on us for expecting that students should be allowed to freely access "The Ambassador College Student Social Center". What were we thinking? Thanks for setting us straight.

Cindy said...

Can you go anywhere on [a college] campus without permission?

Yes. Yes you can. Unless it's a church-run institution, and on that campus is a grand house filled with opulent items from around the world, which belongs to the church leader. You can't go in there. It's not a public area. Anywhere else on any campus in the world? Absolutely.

I find your own recall and justifications sad; apparently you are still under the spell of Armstrongism. I hope that some day you will open your eyes and see the damage done by these human charlatans, these weak excuses for mighty men, who literally begged for money from widows, orphans, and the church poor... but not to help the same, no, that money went into expensive trips and gifts and photo opportunities.

For your own sake, use some common sense, and do some actual research. And before you tell me that I'm remembering incorrectly, realize I was a member from birth, third generation. From Pasadena. I was there. I saw it, lived it, and breathed it.

I'd appreciate actual discussion and answers, without snide remarks, if you can manage it.

Byker Bob said...

The interesting aspect to this is that as a student gardener, I don't recall ever talking with any colleagues who were assigned to grooming the grounds surrounding HWA's home. Amongst the gardeners, that would have been the holy grail, things would have been discussed during the meetings, etc. Whoever was doing this work must have been sworn to secrecy.

No students would ever have gone to this home and knocked at the front door! That would have been interpreted by most as being both disrespectful, and presumptuous. This was the equivalent of the holy ground that Moses was commanded to remove his sandals prior to entering.

Also, the gardeners were some of the most visible and approachable people that outsiders would encounter on campus. We were told not to lie, but to never tell anyone where HWA lived. The winning phrase was, "Sorry Sir (or Ma'am), I couldn't tell you!"

One very interesting thing I learned years later from one of my co-workers at AC Press: During the 1970s, there was a lady who worked in HWA's home, who had a gay son. I know for a fact that he would visit his mother at HWA's home from time to time. This is something most members never knew, and you can just imagine what most would have thought had they known!

If indeed, this was deemed as a student social center for the benefit of revenue agencies, that was an extremely disingenuous designation. But, then again we're talking about a man who once said that he would lie, cheat, steal, or do anything else required to get out the gospel of Jesus Christ.


Tim Kitchen SR said...

Anonymous: I am not sure where you get your information or whether or not you are paying for it (if you are, you are getting false information and are getting taken). It is obvious that you don't know me as I have never bragged about my accomplishments as you claim ("I spoke to him he was boasting about everything he had accomplished in his life, and how SUPERFANTABULOUS he is"). That is laughable! Please! They were grooming me to be a minister, but, I was seeing that the local minister was not at all teaching (or believing) what Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong taught. And, with the PCG claiming to follow all the teachings of Mr. Armstrong, that was totally contradictory!

My wife and I sat at the rear of the congregation, that is true, but,not because I was the door attendant, nor was I the "Bouncer" That is funny (You must have spent too many years (and drinks) in a bar as it was church services not a bar, and no one needed "bouncing", "LOL"!!!
As far as my wife being Pharisaical, she is not at all, and you can keep your mouth off her, I am the one your are attacking without provocation here. We never claimed to be "Without sin" as you stated, (don't know where that came from either). As for talking to your sisters and telling them that you owe the PCG money. That never happened as I never discussed with anyone in the PCG about anyone owning money to the PCG. That is utter nonsense. I don't know who you are (as you don't seem to have the integrity or the guts to list your name, but, hide under anonymous cloak so you don't have to face the ones you accuse). I did not care about people's money then, and do not today. If you owe them 10 million dollars that is your business. I do not care.
I have never attended the Ft. Worth congregation in the PCG either. So, you see, you have gotten most of your stories and rumors wrong,as they are not true. Your obvious root of bitterness towards me in unfounded as well, and, that is most likely the root of your attitude problem. Next time, please get the hate filled statements correctly and be brave enough to post your name as no one will eat you as it is against the law (HAA!).
Tim Kitchen SR

UT, The Reigning Being of Being Banned by Banned by HWA said...

Byker Bob - you wrote: "During the 1970s, there was a lady who worked in HWA's home, who had a gay son. I know for a fact that he would visit his mother at HWA's home from time to time. This is something most members never knew, and you can just imagine what most would have thought had they known!"

I find it fascinating that there were several gay men serving around HWA. It's unfortunate they had to suffer the double whammy of being deceived by the cult and striving to survive in the most un-accepting and restrictive inner environments of that time, while also being so close to all the So Cal scintillation.

Yes, the members would have been outraged by Herbie's Homos but, then they would never believe it was true - the phenomenon would have been couched as just another lieing attack from Satan. RCM knew and kept his focus on condemning homosexuality outside of the church.

I know of two men who worked for WCG and died of AIDS. One was very kind to me as a child; I still fondly recall his humor and genuine humility; the other also made me laugh a lot and would have been a good friend under freer circumstances. I've wondered how HWA's teachings may have impacted their decisions and exposed them to greater risks.

I believe these lives, and probably many others, should also be counted among the extravagant prices HWA lustfully extracted from his cult slaves.

old EXPCG hag said...

Tim said...

old EXPCG hag(Britain S.): You have just proved what I said about you NOT thoroughly studying, or just remembering tidbits, and creating this fantasy of yours. You do not have your facts straight. Or was that the point?
I do not know you. And 2012? what was that about? You clearly do not know your facts.

Oh, sorry I didn't realize this is "Timmy in south park" (look yourself up)

...and clearly yes that was the point to clearly not have my facts straight just for you!

old EXPCG hag said...

Timmy...Timmy, Timmy, Timmy, Timmy, hehehe!

old EXPCG hag said...

Tim Kitchen SR said...

Blah, blah, blah!

Obviously you didn't get YOUR facts straight as if you would have read my later post you would have GOTTEN YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT as I just USED YOU as an excuse to talk about the other Tim I know TOO WELL.