Saturday, June 24, 2017

Living Church of God's Rod McNair: God needs to work through men with “brash” human spirits and that the Holy Spirit isn’t enough



Posted today regarding the sermon by Rod McNair at LCG services earlier today:


With all these new revelations on the Internet, and all the concern about whether LCG wants to oppress its members rather than help them flourish as Christians, what would you guess Rod McNair chose as the topic of his sermon in Charlotte today?   


You guessed it. Government. McNair titled his sermon, “Peter and the Key Man Principle.”

McNair’s sermon revealed again just how sheltered and ignorant he really is. For example, he mentioned “key man insurance” as a proof that even people outside the church understand the importance of a strong leader. McNair seemed unaware that in its real world application, “key man insurance” is rarely taken out on replaceable CEOs, but much more often taken out on creatives or salesmen who make money for the CEO. In the real world, servant leaders not only value their subordinates but even put their money on it, a concept LCG leadership seems unable to understand.

You could see the political wheels turning in McNair’s head as he explained how, though Peter was the key apostle, Christ had a small “inner circle” of three or four apostles with whom he worked more closely than the other eight or nine. I can imagine the politicking going on in LCG right now to be one of Gerald Weston’s favorite “inner circle” people even as he pushes some COE members and HQ managers out of favor.

The main point of McNair’s sermon, though he wouldn’t have put it this way, was that twelve apostles with the Holy Spirit could not have functioned in harmony without an org chart that put one as the top man. In making his point, McNair completely screwed up HWA’s old explanation as to how both Peter and Paul could have been “top man” at the same time, a point that would have argued in favor of the Holy Spirit and against the need for an org chart. McNair also asserted that God needs to work through men with “brash” human spirits and that the Holy Spirit isn’t enough. Translation: don’t complain if your minister is an a$$h0le, because God hates the meek and favors the creeps, and can lead through a creep more easily than through a meek Christian.

McNair and his LCG peers want you to judge a leader by his position in the leadership. The last thing LCG wants you to do is use Jesus Christ’s own standard, as given in Matthew 7, verses 15 through 20:

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.”

I guess the apostle John was wrong when he wrote in John 13:35, “By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” The LCG version of this verse is, “By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you obey the man in charge.” It’s the “Nuremberg Defense” made into a religion.

In short, it was just like a typical RCM sermon on government. It appears that LCG isn’t going to change much under a Weston administration.

55 comments:

Anonymous said...

I too sat there today listening to his sermon. It was disgusting. The man takes no responsibility for anything and expects members to take abuse from him and others because it pleases his god how demands "government." Nowhere in scripture does it mention Jesus placing any emphasis on government. Scripture does tell us to love, show mercy, extend grace, care for the weak and lost.

How can we as church members be expected to take care of others when we are treated like chattel by our very leaders? I have never seen my church do any of these things lately. All I see is angry self-serving men who are bucking for position under Weston, who himself has questionable leadership skills.

I wish I had had the fortitude to get up and walk out today, but I sat there like the other dumb sheep.

Anonymous said...

I hope to God that they do not send this out to all of the church areas and make us sit there and listen to him. I find him to be very creepy.

Connie Schmidt said...

Amazingly, HWAs 1939 Good News article that railed against Hierarchical Church Government was correct. Congregational government is the only way to go, and centralized , one man, or oligarchy rule is inefficient and has been proven OVER AND OVER AGAIN, in the COG to NOT WORK!

Stephen Schley said...

I hope it is sent out so I can hear it for myself since I cannot access the live archive .

Byker Bob said...

The biggest spiritual problem I can discern in all of this is that when people are drilled into accepting the idea that certain ones are "God's ministers", they then perceive them as being a reflection of the God whom they supposedly represent. It is quite natural to extrapolate what God is like from the character of those whom He is supposedly using. God's sense of justice, His mercy, His unconditional love, the nurturing of and mentoring to His children, our value to Him, etc. If your minister reflects the values of Satan, it's going to really mess up your Christian walk. That's why it is probably millstone time for most ACOG ministers, especially the ones we keep hearing about from LCG.

You folks are going to need to decide what to do about the doctrines that mold the relationships which they exert upon you, but one thing is plain. Your ministers really suck!

BB

The Painful Truth said...

Connie wrote "Congregational government is the only way to go, and centralized , one man, or oligarchy rule is inefficient and has been proven OVER AND OVER AGAIN, in the COG to NOT WORK! "

____________________

And they will continue on until the last tithe payer leaves. But you know these people won't leave. They like the abuse.

Anonymous said...

yes, they do like the abuse. I noticed that way back there in the seventies and made myself scarce. It's just like women toughing it out with an abusive partner. Smart ones say, "I'm outta here."

Allen C. Dexter

Anonymous said...

I must say I enjoy your contributions, keep it up ��

Anonymous said...

I am of the opinion that "all" of organized religion is abusive. Hierarchical government religion tends to be more abusive then congregational religion. My question is, "why belong to any organized religion?". Can't anyone have a relationship with God without belonging to any religion? Do we really need to sit and listen to a talking head every Saturday or Sunday to help us live a better life or can we just figure that out for ourselves. All religions are just man made organizations that abuse their members it is just a matter of degree.

Anonymous said...

twelve apostles with the Holy Spirit could not have functioned in harmony without an org chart that put one as the top man

McNair's sermon comes perilously close to blaspheming the Holy Spirit. McNair seems to be projecting his LCG experience onto that of Christ's apostles. The spirit of competition at LCG HQ is so strong that it strangles most opportunities for Spirit-led cooperation. McNair, however, assumes that LCG must by definition be filled with Spirit-led men, in which case it follows that Spirit-led men politic and backbite and try to undermine each other to get ahead, and there must be one strongman leader above them, keeping a lid on all the carnal behavior. In making this assumption, McNair is denying the power of the Holy Spirit. That's a dangerous step for him to take.

DennisCDiehl said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
DennisCDiehl said...

Anon said:

"I wish I had had the fortitude to get up and walk out today, but I sat there like the other dumb sheep."

It's a process and it's personal. When the time is right, you'll know when, why and how to move on. Best to you.

Anonymous said...

I've been reading church literature since the 1960s, and not once did I come across a article explaining that Gods holy spirit leads each and every individual Christian, how to recognise that lead, and that it's part of a Christians baptismal vow to follow that lead. In other words, human church government rejects Gods lead. It's 'obey, yield, surrender, submit,' but Christ has been pushed to one side.

This is the same sin that Moses committed, resulting in him being refused entry into the promised land.

I find it surprising that this example doesn't deter the ministers. It also affirms Gods wisdom in rejecting Moses plea to let him enter the promised land.
God will likewise reject the ministers pleading for their eternal lives come judgment day. They don't have my sympathy.

Anonymous said...

It’s the “Nuremberg Defense” made into a religion.

Well, what did the Americans soldiers say when asked why they starved 1.5 million Germans to death? Oh yeah, the winners never put themselves on trial.

Anonymous said...

I would be curious to know LCG's side of this. Of course, Rod McNair won't post here, but is there somebody who can give his side of the issue?

The first one to plead his cause seems right, Until his neighbor comes and examines him.

anonymous63 said...

The Painful Truth said,
"But you know these people won't leave. They like the abuse."

I don't believe it's strictly a matter of "liking the abuse". They are habituated to abuse and control and do not know how to function apart from it." They are also indoctrinated with the, obey /submit /turn the other cheek /forgive or you are disobeying God.

How in the world do so many of us continue to follow what is hurtful (evil)? The instruction to "do what they say and not what they do" has caused me much irritation for a long time. How can one 'obey' what someone says when the person saying it is abusive, selfish, hateful? How can one obey a "froward" master when that "master" is not following GOD!? Was it meaning only follow the bible words they say to you? How would anyone have known what those were until a book was put together to "prove all things"? Of course we know what a mess that book is, so what do you do? If somebody's a perpetual pain in the soul and spirit to you or to others---leave? Or do ya just sit there and take it and call it suffering for the Lord's sake?

Is "sacrificial" abuse of self at the hands of other/s a good thing in the sight of God? If so, why? Is it good if we abuse someone else? Why is it ok to abuse ourselves in such a manner? Obey, obey, obey. Don't try to save your life you'll lose it, if you lose your life for HIS sake you'll find it...uh, ok.

Oh, set the captives free!

Byker Bob said...

Thanks, 2:58! It's a pleasure to be of service.

BB

Byker Bob said...

10:07 ~ Part of it is a Moses type thing. These are people who filter the New Covenant through the Old Covenant, instead of vice-versa. The children of God told Moses that they did not want God speaking directly to them. They wanted God to speak to Moses, and then for Moses to relay the message. When Jesus died, the veil of the temple was rent from top to bottom, signifying that man now has direct communication with God because Jesus Christ is our high priest, not the Levites. The Levites enforced the Law of Moses, those from the tribe of Judah did not. Jesus is a priest from the order of Melchizedek, not a Levite who would enforce the Law of Moses. The ACOGs don't teach or even know about Noahide law which preceded the Old Covenant.

Most likely, if you asked devout Armstrongites about ministerial abuse, they would probably insist that it is part of the testing process they go through to qualify them for the Kingdom. The implication is that if logic or discernment moves members to differ from abusive ministers, those members have given up the good fight and are no longer qualifying. And, that's precisely the box that the ministers want them to feel that they are in, even if it departs from the precepts of the New Testament and Covenant.

BB

Anonymous said...

10.07 AM
I suggest you read up on abusive relationships. There are thousands of internet sites on the topic. The reality is that many are trapped in abusive relationships for a variety of reasons. It's not as simple as just walking away as you claim.
You shouldn't be blaming the victims without doing your research homework first.

Anonymous said...

8.53 AM
Please refer us to sites that confirm your claim.
I also fail to see how your post is relevant to the topic at hand.

Anonymous said...

I would be curious to know LCG's side of this. Of course, Rod McNair won't post here, but is there somebody who can give his side of the issue?

I'm sure he would say that he gave a very ordinary, uncontroversial, "trunk of the tree" sermon explaining what the church has long taught about government. He would explain that converted Christians consider it a blessing when they are ruled over by God's top-down one-man government. He would explain that people who won't submit to church government today are little satans who will never become part of the God Family because they never learned the lesson of submission.

It was a very ordinary sermon, just delivered with an unusual degree of immaturity and irony by a man whose fruits as a ruler are those of a petty tyrant, not a loving shepherd.

anonymous63 said...

Anonymous 7:29

You have completely misunderstood what my questions. I have been in abusive relationships since childhood. I know it well. I don't see where I said "it's simply a matter of walking away." Could you help me to understand how you came to that conclusion? The questions I have asked are ones I have pondered for a long time in trying to obey God and trying to figure it all out. But, having difficulty and not often agreeing with the "obey no matter what" indoctrination. It's a big struggle. I do not make light of abuse. It's a form of terrorism. It's not good. and no, it's never as simple as getting up and walking away.

Byker Bob said...

His crap appears to be based on the "research" of Canadian novelist James Bacque, which was all refuted and debunked as early as 1991. Actually, Bacque's original number was somewhere between 800-900,000, and no bodies were ever found to support his contentions. This is why this "information" does not appear in any legitimate history book, and was never even exploited by the hippies back in the '60s.

BB

Anonymous said...

BB
I don't know where you got the idea of Levites 'enforcing' the law of Moses. Were they cops? Did they fine or whip people to enforce the law?

Connie Schmidt said...

PIRATED VIDEO OF ROD MCNAIR SERMON -- scene shows reconciliation with Scarborough's ! MUST SEE!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBBWUZfgRiw

RSK said...

Guessing BB refers to their help in the matter of the golden calf story.

Byker Bob said...

From the Bible. The Levitical priesthood were the administrators of the Old Covenant. One small piece of evidence involves rebellious children. Parents of that era's proto-juvenile delinquents were to be bring their rebellious offspring to the priests, to be worked with and rehabillitated or stoned. The priests presided over the sacrifices, the holy day ceremonies, the sabbath, they mapped out the calendar, settled disputes, etc. Also confirmed by Paul in his epistles.

But I think you already know that, because cops and fines are modern secular terms, and whippings or scourgings came into play amongst the Jews during Roman captivity.
Your comment made me smile, but it didn't rise to the level of a beverage sprayer or snorter. Humor is always cool. Better luck next time!

BB

True Bread said...

darn Connie...

link doesn't work....you got me all excited...

True Bread said...

disregard....perfect...!!!

from one of my favorite movies...

Ronco said...

If Rod McNair is so hip on St Peter handing down the Keys the to the Kingdom to future successors, then he'd better get used to kissing the Pope's ring, because the Roman Catholic Church has held the Marka Registrada on that for centuries and centuries before Armstrong was hatched...

Been there.

Done that.

Eons ago.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-URAvHjGW238/T-x8av0VzxI/AAAAAAAAA6k/9JC9XYEGnKU/s1600/Rome+-+St+Peter+Basilica+67.jpg

anonymous63 said...

Yep Ronco, they condemn themselves in being harlot daughters by engaging in and following that primacy of Peter 'rule'. Where in the heck do they get that Peter was number one? None of them were number one. None of them. Christ was and IS and that's it!

BB, Thank you so much.

Anonymous said...

McNair is so corrupt, so completely carnal, that he can not even fathom the lack of competition and need for ranking/power/control among Christ and His apostles.

In McNair's world the love that Christ preached AND LIVED, do not exist.

nck said...

Well, it is that "key thing" to close and open etc.
That symbol is all over Rome.


In my opinion it was all about "span of control".

Nowadays I have real time aggregate numbers of people buying and selling bubble gum in Paris, Singapore, Hong Kong and New York. In yonder times I guess it was best to have someone make some daily decisions in Jerusalem while others were doing the travelling. If we can have misunderstandings through our electronic communications. Of course there could be some communication trouble in the time of papyrus messaging on complex doctrinal issues travelling a week by boat.

It was no strange thing that a fan of henry ford implemented another managerial style in the 1940's. Today they'll have to deal with millenials, agility and scrum. I doubt there ancient (1940's) managerial style will outlast the structure.

nck

Anonymous said...

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’This is the first and greatest commandment.And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”.

This is something that LCG either doesn't believe, doesn't believe applies to them or is completely incapable of comprehending.

And I'm not just talking about RMC, McNair and Weston. I'm talking about the ministry and membership of LCG as a whole.

Their harsh, un-loving, un-forgiving attitudes are not representative of letting Christ live within them. Rather like something else living within them. Scary.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous June 24, 2017 at 8:15 PM - Here's a suggestion for you. Since you can't stand "my church" as you put it about yourself with LCG, well, there is a door in that building they (and you apparently) meet in that you can leave (better yet, never come back) through. That'll give you the wonderful opportunity to attend any number of COG groups that fits your idea of how things ought to operate. But I suspect you'll never do that. You enjoy staying and "reporting" back here what you think is "really" happening there.

Anonymous said...

Hey Anonymous of June 24, 2017 at 8:19 PM - Feel free to go elsewhere to a COG group and attend there. No one is forcing you to attend LCG and listen to "creepy" Rod McNair or any other minister that speaks for them. There's plenty of other groups for you to play church in every Sabbath. They'll gladly welcome you in their ranks too.

Anonymous said...

Read Mark 10:35-45. Before the Apostles received the Holy Spirit, some competed to sit next to Jesus and be his closest followers.

Jesus rebuked that attitude, yet that is precisely the attitude Rod McNair takes to be normal in his church.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous June 26, 2017 at 9:35 AM - Here's a suggestion for you. Since you can't stand the ekklesia, and God's sheep hear a voice very different from yours, well, there is a door in that building they (and you apparently) meet in that you can leave (better yet, never come back) through. That'll give you the wonderful opportunity to abuse the sheep in any number of COG groups that fit your idea of how things ought to operate. But I suspect you'll never do that. You enjoy staying and abusing the sheep where you can get a nice paycheck for doing so.

Arno said...


@ Anonymous June 25, 2017 at 3:21 AM
I won't over-generalize by saying that "all" organized religion is abusive, but that at least 99% generally are ๐Ÿ˜ That is why I broke away from organized religion by taking the first steps in setting myself free from the heavy yoke and bondage of the old WWCOG. It was really a bad choice to have changed from Seventh Day Adventism to become a Worldwider at the tender and confusing age of 18 during that tumultuous year of 1975, thick with overlays of end time predictions from almost all religious quarters. Those were the years of Armstrongite & Jehovah's Wittness Great Tribulation cum Armageddon boogyman talk, Hal Lindsay's Late Great Planet Earth predictions and all of them as well as others who jumped on the prediction-bandwagon...and they all made money out of us!

Yes, you CAN have a relationship with GOD, the first Source and Centre of Everything, but apparently, actually *obviously* NOT with the Bible-god. I, together with multiple thousands are reading/studying a collection of 196 Papers, without being governed HUMANLY "from the top down." We are loosely knitted groups without a human leader, and it works for us ๐Ÿ˜‚

All the best on your personal quest ๐Ÿ‘Š

Anonymous said...

Anonymous June 27, 2017 at 9:29 AM - Here's another suggestion for you. Being that the vast majority of the people attending LCG WANT to be there because they APPRECIATE and LISTEN to the ministry that God has provided them with and see ZERO issues with anything the ministry is doing because they can see that it is Biblical, why don't YOU take your hypocritical, playing-church self right out the door of LCG and spread your vile venom elsewhere? Wolves like you that masquerade as a faithful Christian but secretly plant deceit and hate towards God's people are what keep God's ministry up at night. And by the way, I'm not a paid employee of the LCG but a faithful and loyal member of the body of Christ who is totally onboard with the God-given mission and purpose of the Church.

Anonymous said...

Faithful Christians are those that dare to question the ministry and their abusive tactics. Faithful Christians do not sit in church each week listing to abusive pricks like Rod McNair telling lies and abusing people from the pulpit. Please, explain just how LCG members are God's chosen people above other Christians?

Anonymous said...

@ 9:55 AM, you wrote that the "vast majority" attending LCG

see ZERO issues with anything the ministry is doing

That's a claim far beyond what even Mr. Meredith ever claimed. Mr. Meredith said there would be issues, and that there would be an imperfect ministry, but that God would work things out in His way and His time. Yet, here you are, saying that the vast majority in LCG "see ZERO issues" with "anything" the ministry is doing. That's idolatry, and if you are not careful you can follow men right into the Lake of Fire.

Also, I am sure you know that many couples in LCG are unequally yoked, with one spouse attending primarily to keep the family from being torn apart.

Christ's words in John 10:27 are clear. "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me." When Gerald Weston complains that people remain as co-workers and don't become members, he is actually telling us a lot about his own level of faith. When a true minister sees one sheep going astray, he leaves behind the 99 and goes after that 1. In LCG, ministers spend most of their time trying to bully the 99 into staying, which would not be necessary if these were God's sheep recognizing God's shepherd. You are one of those suck-ups who agrees with Weston and blames the members, but the ekklesia knows better and can discern the spiritual organism even while wolves in shepherd's clothing do their best to shear and even consume the sheep.

LCG Expositor said...

I'm not a paid employee of the LCG but a faithful and loyal member of the body of Christ who is totally onboard with the God-given mission and purpose of the Church.

The first mission statement of LCG is: "To preach the true Gospel of the Kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ to all nations as a witness." OK, please show me where this is a God-given mission. Preach the gospel, yes. As a witness? Nowhere is any person told to preach the gospel as a witness. We are to preach the gospel with a specific purpose, namely, make disciples, teach them repentance, and baptize them. But LCG has no such mission to do any of these things. Why? First, because of a false belief that John 6:44 says that God will do it all Himself. And second, because preaching as a witness requires no accountability. And if no disciples are made as commissioned in Matt 28? "Well, we did everything we could. If God doesn't want to call them, that's His choice." In other words, "We're not growing and it's God's fault." That mission statement is a coward's mission statement. Rather than risk failing at the mission Jesus really gave us, the coward makes up a mission statement wherein he can't fail.

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:55 says, "that the vast majority of the people attending LCG WANT to be there because they APPRECIATE and LISTEN to the ministry that God has provided them with and see ZERO issues with anything the ministry is doing"

MY COMMNENT:

Perception is reality.

9:55 is clearly fully on the LCG Kool-aide and probably a minister suck-up. A person such as this is typically surrounded by other mindless LCG-can-do-no-wrong zombies so it is their personal experience/belief that the "vast majority" of their peers feel the same way.

I was in LCG for almost 15 years and I can tell you that this is not the case. However, because of the gestapo mentality of the LCG ministry (which has gotten progressively worse through the years) people who question doctrine or the bully-like character in LCG leadership don't talk to people like anon 9:55 because they know the zombies will narc them out to Rod McNair or others like him.

Anonymous said...

@ 5:34 AM

It's funny that 9:55 AM has "ZERO issues with anything the ministry is doing." Anyone well-connected in LCG knows that different cliques of ministers have BIG issues with different things other ministers are doing. For example, Mario Hernandez is a very polarizing figure in the LCG ministry. Many wondered why Rod Meredith let him go on quietly teaching so many things different from what the English-speaking LCG teaches. Another very polarizing figure is Mike Germano. There are so many different factions within the LCG ministry that it's hard to account for them all. There's another faction dividing the older ministers Carl McNair ordained and the relative youngsters favored by Doug Winnail for ordination. There are ministers eagerly waiting for the church to modernize, and there are others awaiting Gerald Weston's turning the clock back and undoing some of the Meredith-era liberalization and doctrinal drift.

To look at LCG ministry and say that you have "ZERO issues" with "anything the ministry is doing" is either to be a deliberate liar, a very stupid person, or a cult zombie.

nck said...

9:46

Excellent expose. However I'm not sure if I support it.

In some countries there are coalition governments with "first among equals" as prime minister. The govermnent speaks with "one tongue" although they might differ politically.

I for instance agree with "the police" ALWAYS.
Although I might not agree with many of their actions or individual violence on occassion.

Nck

Anonymous said...

Rod McNair has a huge ego. At this point he is so high on power and self-righteousness that he feels invincible.

In his heart-of-hearts he truly believes that every word from his mouth should be blindly obeyed and that to question him is an offense.

His abuse of the Scarboroughs has gotten a lot of exposure but what is being over-looked is that he abused and bullied church members WELL BEFORE them and he is STILL DOING IT TO THIS DAY.

There are members in the Charlotte LCG congregation that are still being bullied by this tyrannical, hard-hearted, egotistical liar RIGHT NOW.

I have faith that in the end, nobody gets away with anything. God will judge. But iT sure would be nice to see McNair get put in check! At least half the LCG counsel of elders doesn't care for him and knows he lies.

Will no one do something about it?!?

Anonymous said...

Rod Meredith was grooming McNair to be ordained an Evangelist and take over as CAD Director from the squishy liberal Doug Winnail. Will Weston go through with Meredith's plan?

Anonymous said...

Gerald Weston has the balls to kick a little kid out of camp for passing a note to a girl that says, "let's meet in the woods after dinner" but he doesn't have the balls to discipline Rod McNair who blatantly lies and bullies/abuses LCG members constantly.

Things that make you go hmmmmmm....

I really thought that the death of Mr. Meredith meant the end of McNair's reign of tyranny and terro. There must still be enough of a family connection to allow the Head of the SS to keep his Get Out Of Jail Free card.

Sad.

Anonymous said...

I like how Doug Winnail is characterize as a squishy liberal lol. True Armstrongite judgment!

Winnail is far from perfect but at least he GETS the greatest commandment. I have seen more of the fruits of the Spirit in him than in all the other LCG HQs staff combined.

Putting on my ACOG goggles, I can see how LCGers wouldn't like him. He writes about Jesus (gasp) and love (sigh) and forgiveness (the horror). He focuses on developing Christian character instead of LCGs favorite subjects like the tribulation, obedience to church government and the ever-popular 'obey and submit' (to LCG, not so much to God).

Maybe it's his protestant wife's influence. Maybe he actually gets that the way we treat one another is more important than tithing on mint and cumin (metaphorically speaking).

My stint in LCG showed me that ACOGers are WAY too concerned with the easy points of the law and nearly inept at the weightier issues like love, grace and mercy.

They are blind but do not know.

Anonymous said...

@12:26PM

You think Doug is all about love? Tell him that his new "falling away" doctrine is standard Protestantism and makes no sense as part of HWA-related prophecy, and see how "loving" he is with you. Or tell him that science disproves British Israelism. You won't experience much love and forgiveness then. Winnail is no different than any other authoritarian minister. He just majors in a different set of minors than most.

Anonymous said...

In reply to 524;

I have told him that I don't agree with his falling away theory (or Richard Ames's rapture theory) and added that there was no way he could prove it was anything more than speculation. He was very open to discussion and ultimately fine to agree to disagree.

I have never asked DSW point blank but I have suspected for years that he doesn't believe in BI. He and Dr. Germano have that in common. Actually you'd be surprised how many ACOG ministers and members don't believe in BI. They just keep it to themselves so they won't upset the apple cart or draw fire from BI believers.

Anonymous said...

@ 1:51 PM

I would love to know whether you are an LCG member, as I expect Doug would be much more circumspect and polite with a non-LCG minister than with an LCG member. Also, if you suspect that Doug doesn't believe in BI, then he is a super-hypocrite, as he preaches BI more than almost any other LCG minister. Yes, even more than RCM, who usually oversimplified it into a kind of "white supremacy" without the details on which Doug focuses. If Doug didn't believe in BI, why would he have given these sermons?

The Forgotten Key to Bible Prophecy

National Identities and the Plan of God

If neither Germano nor Winnail believe in BI, why has Germano arranged for Winnail to teach Living University course on BI? Here is Winnail's recorded introduction to his course: THL 215. The Lost Tribes of Israel in History and Prophecy

Here's his course syllabus. Hardly a disbeliever, wouldn't you say?

Anonymous said...

@ 343

Winnail and Germano are major hypocrites on many fronts and not just regarding BI.

I believe Winnail has ulterior motives to towing the line. Maybe he does believe BI. I don't know. If he didn't, he's smart enough to never admit it. I personally give him credit for being an intellect and most educated people don't believe in BI. I've assumed he was in that category.

Germano has publically written a paper ousting BI. I guess he decided to recant for a pay check and a position. Not too shocking. Integrity and character are not strong points in the ACOG ministry. Power, control and greed are pretty popular though.

I think Doug Winnail has a good heart. I think he truly wants to serve God and I've never seen him abuse LCG members like the other men at headquarters. He is a pacifist who is typically willing to give people the benefit of the doubt (unlike most other LCG ministers).

His biggest flaw, from my perspective, is his cowardice. He knows what's right and what's wrong but he lacks the courage to make a stand against the wickedness that surrounds him on every front.... for a paycheck and a title. That and he wants to stay in Charlotte because that is where both of his sons live (one of whom works at LCG HQs). He appears to be willing to go along with just about anything for that 100K salary and the ability to live near grandkids.

Anonymous said...

Not only is LCG not embarrassed by McNair's sermon, they're releasing it as the selected online sermon for the Sabbath of September 9, 2017. This means LCG members all around the world will be seeing it, not just those in Charlotte. Maybe Charlotte LCG members can let us know if any edits were made?

The sermon is online here.