Saturday, June 24, 2017

Living Church of God: We Don't Care, We Have Insurance (Part 4)


From an LCG source:

After Living Church of God sent the Scarboroughs the pathetic release of claims (see the previous posting) the Scarboroughs sought out an attorney.  After reading the release form, it should be quite obvious that no lawyer would have ever let a client sign such a release as that.  The letter below was sent by the Scarboroughs attorney in response to the release form.
If you notice the last paragraph of the letter, the Scarbroughs made it quite plain that they "would prefer to resolve this matter outside of court and are hopeful that Living Church will be agreeable to beginning discussions in furtherance of such goal."
LCG was written to over 40 times per the letter posted a few days ago and then they were sent a letter from the Scarboroughs attorney asking for "discussion" to work toward peaceful resolution. Instead of acting like the Christians they pretend to be, LCG made the decision to let the 7 day time period pass without a response. They could have PREVENTED THE WHOLE THING with discussion but they are so stiff-necked that they refused. It's inconceivable!
They are so short-sighted. Imagine how much bad PR LCG could have avoided. 
It would be interesting to hear what LCG brethren will feel knowing that the entire lawsuit could have been so easily prevented?
LCG ministry has stated that they had insurance to cover this type of situation and I have heard from several ministers in LCG that that is true. What they don't want the members to realize is that the insurance has a HUGE deductible which they paid with tithe-payer money. 
Can you imagine some poor LCG member who works his ass off to send in 10% of his money, thinking it's going to "preach the gospel" but in fact, it's paying insurance deductibles because the men at their headquarters have their heads so far up their asses that they can't be peacemakers (or grown-ups for that matter) and sit at a table for "discussion".






July 13, 2015

Living Church of God 
P.O. Box 3810 Charlotte, NC 28227  

Re: Patrick & Elizabeth Scarborough Representation 

To Whom It May Concern:
This letter serves as formal notification that Mr. Patrick Scarborough and Mrs. Elizabeth Scarborough (hereinafter referred collectively as “the Scarboroughs”) have retained the Law Office of Nesmith & Rucker, LLP with regards to defamatory statements made against them by several agents of Living Church of God (hereinafter “Living Church”).
On or around September 20, 2014 during a church service at the Living Church in Charlotte, North Carolina there were several defamatory statements made about the Scarboroughs. The statements made specifically about the Scarboroughs were made during the announcements portion of the service by Mr. Bob League. These statements were made to communicate to the congregation that the Scarboroughs were what the Living Church terms as “marked” and were of such vile and loathsome character as not to be associated with by other members of the congregation. Members of the congregation reached out to the Scarboroughs during the church service making inquire about what had caused them to be “marked”. Thus, from the statements made during this service, it was clear that the statements were of and concerning the Scarboroughs.
In the accompanying sermonette on that same day that it was announced the Scarboroughs were “marked”, the sermonette was in its entirety articulating distinctions of congregation members that had discontinued coming to the Living Church, those “disfellowshiped”, those suspended, and those “marked” or “noted”. The speaker spent sufficient time explaining that members marked were done for the protection of the congregation because this designation “denotes the most severe of all” the categories. The speaker explained, using Biblical Scripture to support his position, that those members “marked” must be brought up by name because those persons cause discord and congregation members were to be put on notice so that they would not be at risk of following their “sinful” ways. While the speaker indicated that the details of why the member was badged with such “marking” were not disclosed to ensure slanderous statements were not made, the actual designation of this “marking” and statements made about the Scarboroughs at the time of the marking were, in fact, slanderous.
The accompanying sermon made by Mr. Rod McNair during this same service made many references to what can occur if the congregation associates with those that are “evil”, “liars” or those against the ministry and why it was deemed necessary to “get rid” of those persons or what the Living Church calls as “disfellowship.” This accompanying sermon to the defamatory statements previously made about the Scarboroughs earlier in the service, further painted an overall sentiment that the Scarboroughs were of vile character and should not be associated with by persons of the congregation. Mr. McNair indicated that former members of the congregation who were “put out” of the church were in risk of being “herded into concentration camps and tortured.”
Pursuant to North Carolina law, a Plaintiff has a cause of action for defamation by showing that the defendant: 1) made false, defamatory statements of or concerning the plaintiff; 2.) which were published to a third person; and 3.) causing injury to the plaintiff’s reputation. The statements made by agents of your church were defamatory and would constitute as slander per se in which the Scarboroughs would not have to prove special damages or malice as it is presumed based on the nature of your defamatory statements.
If this case is litigated, the Scarboroughs will be able to provide evidence that includes but is not limited to: testimony from members of your congregation that heard the defamatory statements; corroborating testimony that the Scarboroughs were “marked” based on a letter sent from your international headquarters written by Mr. Bob League and Mr. Rob McNair; Mr. Scarborough’s unique knowledge of the workings of Living Church based on him working in the church a history of defamatory statements made against former congregation members; and previous judgments won against you in a court of law for these same types of defamatory statements. If this case is litigated the Scarboroughs will likely prevail and be awarded a substantial judgment. The Scarboroughs will also seek attorney’s fees and punitive damages.
The Scarboroughs would prefer to resolve this matter outside of court and is hopeful that Living Church will be agreeable to beginning discussions in furtherance of such goal. We expect to receive your response on how you wish to proceed with this matter in seven (7) days from the date of this correspondence. If we do not hear from you by this time we will see your lack of response as an unwillingness to resolve this out of court and will initiate civil action in the Superior Court of Mecklenburg County.  This letter is formal notice that any communication you have regarding this matter should not be directed to the Scarboroughs but should be directed to our office. If you should have any questions or concerns please do not hesitate to contact our office.
Sincerely, 
Erica R. Nesmith


45 comments:

Anonymous said...

All the Scarboroughs wanted to do was to discuss the matter. LCG wouldn't even do that.

Why? Perhaps because to do so would have revealed Rod McNair as a liar. Unless Rod Meredith was lying, we must come to one of two conclusions. Either Rod McNair cruelly made up lies about the Scarboroughs, or he stupidly believed lies other people told him about the Scarboroughs. Whichever be the case, Rod McNair then lied to Rod Meredith about his counseling process with teh Scarboroughs.

Of course, shortsighted LCG apparently didn't figure out that by avoiding a private discussion with the Scarboroughs in which Rod McNair would be exposed, they got instead a series of depositions that can now be spread for all to see.

If God is working through LCG, if this situation is evidence of how God works in His Church today, then I want no part of such a God or such a Church, because it makes a mockery of the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Bible

Anonymous said...

I am so disgusted by what my church did to this family! They will not get another dime from us. I will give my money to the local homeless shelter before I pay for McNair's inability to let a Christian word flow out of his mouth.

Anonymous said...

The ministers too often act as if the law doesn't apply to them. It's to every church members benefit to have this evil attitude challenged.

Anonymous said...

This is great exposure of the corrupt workings that have been going on for years at LCG. Keep pounding them. They give no mercy, they receive no mercy!

In Bed With Garner Ted Armstrong said...

If I were the Scarboroughs, I'd tell Rod The Cod McNair to suck it up buttercup!

Connie Schmidt said...

ANAGRAMS FOR "ROD MCNAIR"...

I'd Ram Corn

Mr. Iron Cad

I Do Mr. Narc

I, Mr. Rad Con

Byker Bob said...

The only way the actions of LCG make any sense at all is if one considers it from the standpoint of authority. Apparently they have come to the point where matters of right and wrong are irrelevant, and superceded by church government and authority. So right and wrong, and therefore authority, are all arbitrary and meaningless if you are a member of LCG. How does a member know what is right or wrong? Why in Armstongism, those are defined by the ministry!

This sabbath, as all good LCG members are dutifully studying to show themselves approved, one excellent study topic would be the legal terms mala in se, and mala prohibita. Just Google them. It will be eye-opening vis a vis how your church normally governs. Hint: The Pharisees were condemned by Jesus Christ for dealing in mala prohibita.

BB

Anonymous said...

BB
So true about authority.
Herbie said over and over that 'government is everything.' He meant it literally. To him it was the ultimate value. Americas founding fathers by contrast in the Declaration of independence, believed that the ultimate value was everyones right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness ('choose life' as the bible expresses it). They believed that governments role was subordinate to this by protecting these rights.
'Government is everything' means that ministers own church members lives, a self serving lie. This is a psychopathic trait.
This is why I keep saying that Herb will NOT be in the kingdom.

Anonymous said...

With all these new revelations on the Internet, and all the concern about whether LCG wants to oppress its members rather than help them flourish as Christians, what would you guess Rod McNair chose as the topic of his sermon in Charlotte today?

You guessed it. Government. McNair titled his sermon, “Peter and the Key Man Principle.”

McNair’s sermon revealed again just how sheltered and ignorant he really is. For example, her mentioned “key man insurance” as a proof that even people outside the church understand the importance of a strong leader. McNair seemed unaware that in its real world application, “key man insurance” is rarely taken out on replaceable CEOs, but much more often taken out on creatives or salesmen who make money for the CEO. In the real world, servant leaders not only value their subordinates but even put their money on it, a concept LCG leadership seems unable to understand.

You could see the political wheels turning in McNair’s head as he explained how, though Peter was the key apostle, Christ had a small “inner circle” of three or four apostles with whom he worked more closely than the other eight or nine. I can imagine the politicking going on in LCG right now to be one of Gerald Weston’s favorite “inner circle” people even as he pushes some COE members and HQ managers out of favor.

The main point of McNair’s sermon, though he wouldn’t have put it this way, was that twelve apostles with the Holy Spirit could not have functioned in harmony without an org chart that put one as the top man. In making his point, McNair completely screwed up HWA’s old explanation as to how both Peter and Paul could have been “top man” at the same time, a point that would have argued in favor of the Holy Spirit and against the need for an org chart. McNair also asserted that God needs to work through men with “brash” human spirits and that the Holy Spirit isn’t enough. Translation: don’t complain if your minister is an a$$h0le, because God hates the meek and favors the creeps, and can lead through a creep more easily than through a meek Christian.

McNair and his LCG peers want you to judge a leader by his position in the leadership. The last thing LCG wants you to do is use Jesus Christ’s own standard, as given in Matthew 7, verses 15 through 20:

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.”

I guess the apostle John was wrong when he wrote in John 13:35, “By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” The LCG version of this verse is, “By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you obey the man in charge.” It’s the “Nuremberg Defense” made into a religion.

In short, it was just like a typical RCM sermon on government. It appears that LCG isn’t going to change much under a Weston administration.

Anonymous said...

Ok Mr. Weston, your turn at the plate!

Are you going to follow the principles clearly outlined in the Bible to deal with a proven lying, tyrannical, oppressive minister? Or are you going to follow the "church tradition", and instead show favoritism toward a person in a position and excuse obviously bad behavior?

The choice is yours, and it will show what kind of an organization you will mold - a continuation of the existing hegemony, or a system that really does try to stick to Scriptural guidance regardless of the person involved.

My prayers are that you will follow what the Bible clearly has outlined for these types of situations. Please handle this swiftly and Scripturally, and then continue to deliver the many other wronged and oppressed!

J

Hoss said...

Connie,

How about Mr Co-drain or Mr Cod Rain, or corm drain?

Anonymous said...

I have experienced ministerial abuse, myself. I've also experienced extreme reactions from family members when I went from one CoG to another. The system is flawed and corrupt, but it's not God's system. This isn't Christ's example. Nowhere is it recorded (in the NT) that Jesus told people that they should pay Him tithes and offerings. The bottom line for most ministers is the bottom line. The only reason why I currently attend the CoG that I do attend is because we have family there. My kids have oppertunities there that they wouldn't have elsewhere and there is no where else that I know of that would be better. What else can I do? I believe in keeping the Sabbath and the Holy Days. I believe in the God of the Bible and I believe that living according to His laws produce the best life possible. I don't financially support any CoGs, choosing, rather, to send my tithes and offerings to organizations that truly help people. The problem is, we keep looking for ways to "fix" the flawed system. The reality is, just like the local and national government, flawed people will take a system (regardless of how good it is), and make it flawed. Human leadership is a necessary evil, but unfortunately the personality that actively seeks that leadship position is usually a very driven, self willed, and oftentimes abusive personality. There are a good few, but in general, people who just want to live peaceful lives and do some good for others don't gravitate towards the power (and burdens) of leadership. The point is, God wants us to learn to follow Him, and not get so wrapped up in everybody else's flaws. Just to actively, passionately and singularly follow Him. Regardless of what anyone else is doing. To throw out your faith because of the sins and flaws of the ministry and the members around you is the equivilant of moving to Cuba or Iraq because you can't stand the president or your neighbors. It won't fix the problem, it'll leave you more bitter, resentful and obsessed than ever (since those are spiritual ailments), and it will rob you of the blessing of a relationship with a loving God who never abandons His children, even in the most difficult of circumstances. Who's always within reach. It will rob you of the peace, satisfaction and joy that are found in a healthy relationship with Him. And it will cause you to make some very, very foolish decisions with your life. To hurt the ones that you love, and eventually, to become the very same evil that drove you from God in the first place.

Byker Bob said...

There are certain occupations which were simply not represented in the ACOGs, but are very prevalent in mainstream Christian churches. I'm convinced that their sheer absence has made a profound difference in the behavior of the ministry. Mainstream churches often have police officers, firemen, attorneys, politicians, professional counsellors of various types, athletic coaches, scientists, professional writers, and historians attending as active members of their churches. These are all professions which are forbidden, frowned upon, and or muzzled by Armstrongism. Yet, the difference such peoples' influence can make on a congregation is just phenomenal. The problem is that nobody in the ACOGs is allowed to have any influence except the ministry. Would we witness all of the bad behavior and crappy ethics which we see if some of these forbidden professions were allowed and embraced? A good, representative cross section would act as a system of checks and balances, the problem being that that is exactly what the leaders do not want.

BB

Anonymous said...

@Hoss, 6:19PM

RODERICK CARL MCNAIR:

MR CARDIAC IRON CLERK
MR CRANIAL COCK RIDER
MR RACIAL CINDER ROCK
MR ACIDIC CLANK ERROR

Anonymous said...

BB
Members that have good ethics and rebuke church bullies (who respond by complaining to the minister) are character assassinated by the ministers. I have seen it.
So not only is Christ and His example swept under the carpet, but anyone whose light shines is ruthlessly dealt with. They figuratively wake up with a horses head in their bed.

Anonymous said...

Read the parable of the Lost Sheep in Luke 15:3-7.

Does this parable call to mind the way Rod McNair and Bob League behaved in responding to the Scarboroughs' expressed desire to return to the LCG flock? Not so much.

Rod McNair is a "shepherd" who goes out of his way to keep wolves among the flock, while driving away sheep who hunger for the fellowship of other sheep.

Byker Bob said...

That's sad, 12:02. Unfortunately, conditions such as that normally lead to splinter-surfing, because deep down, members want to believe that there can be a church based on Armstrongism that actually bears good fruits and holds good values. Some of the splinters are flagrant with the abuses and teach that maintaining a "good" attitude in the face of abuse and doubt is part of the Christian life leading to the kingdom. Other splinters keep everything very quiet and below the radar (their version of a gag order), but embrace the same kind of governance and doctrinal approach that supports abuse.

Leaving the oppression involves being educated away from an erroneous mind set. That is a very difficult process for the deeply indoctrinated.

BB

Anonymous said...

7.13 PM
So you go to church, your kids benefit, but you don't contribute one cent to your church. The minister in your church needs to be paid. The hall needs to be rented.
But you pay for non of this. Others do.
In other words, you are a thief, a crook. How Christian is that?

Martha said...

Anonymous at 7:13 p.m.,

I feel for you. We too had children and extended family throughout the COGs, and stayed for a while because of those ties. Everyone has to make their own decisions, as we will all answer to God for them. We arrived at the conclusion that it was the well-meaning, yet misguided COG doctrines (including the Sabbath and Holy Days, but not them alone) that caused much of the dysfunction we saw. In the end, it was largely because of our children that we decided to leave. It was difficult, and did cause some problems with our extended families, although it was not as bad as it could have been. We couldn't live with forcing our children to make these decisions further down the road, when our families were even more invested in the COGs, and congregations were even more disparate, scattered and spiritually sickly. Especially when we knew leaving was the right thing to do, while they were young. Four years later, it was the best decision we ever made. I have not had the time to be as active as I would like on As Bereans Did, largely because of those growing children, but you can email me any time at marthacog@gmail.com.

Anonymous at 11:42, you sound like a classy individual. This person reveals his or her struggle with these these complicated issues, and that's your response? You sound like one of those shepherds who beats the sheep, or at least would inform the worthless shepherds which sheep should be used for mutton when the time comes. The God we both serve had warnings for people like that...

nck said...

11;42

You cannot seriously be a christian.

Period!

Probably one of the stupidest remarks I ever saw here.

Nck

Anonymous said...

Martha and Nck

Perhaps you missed it, but one of the ten commandments is don't steal. Other church members are paying for the minister that benefits his family. Other members are paying the rented hall that benefits his family. He is leeching off others.
Both of you offer no line of rezoning other than attacking me with accusations.
No facts, or logic, just abuse. You and 7.13 PM are soul mates.
The three amigos.

PS you smear the good name of Banned. You give Malm the ammunition to call this a godless site.

Anonymous said...

@ Jim Meredith 2:37 PM

Abused people often resort to unhealthy coping mechanisms, which may include what appear to be moral lapses. Apparently, 7:13PM places a higher value on family unity than on paying for "ministerial services" that she would rather do without. She does tithe, she just doesn't tithe to YOU. She tithes where she knows the tithe will do good. Earlier you wrote:

The minister in your church needs to be paid. The hall needs to be rented. Many churches (even the Church of God, at times) get by without a paid ministry, and without paid meeting halls. Maybe to you, a hireling, what matters most is the payments that spare ministers the burden of doing other work. To God, however, what matters is the ekklesia, the whole body of believers, which often throughout history has included ministers who were literally "fellow workers" with the brethren. You, 2:37PM, are a spoiled brat with inappropriate feelings of entitlement.

Anonymous said...

Wow...time to quit beating this dead horse! Move on with your life and give it a rest!

And to this guy/gal....
Anonymous said...
I am so disgusted by what my church did to this family! They will not get another dime from us. I will give my money to the local homeless shelter before I pay for McNair's inability to let a Christian word flow out of his mouth.

June 24, 2017 at 8:03 AM

You will get tossed next for not paying up!!

Anonymous said...

4.56 PM
Hmm, I say that people should pay for services rendered to them. You respond by accusing me of inappropriate feelings of entitlement. Since when does a entitlement mentality advocate paying ones one. So instead of the three moral stooges, it's now four moral stooges.
No wonder people here are amazed when I claim that God answers my prayers. The typical answer is 'you are imagining it' or 'correlation isn't causation,' or Dennis Diehls 'it's magic thinking.' The real reason is that I am not a crook like some posters here. Put sin out of your life, don't steal, keep it in your pants, pray for the welfare of mankind, and God will respond by answering your prayers.
And when it happens, brace yourself for Dennis accusing you of magic thinking.

nck said...

2;37

My lime of reasoning follows your "godless" reasoning and judgment of the person you aimed at. Except for your incantation of "mammon".

Even HWA would have moved with more faith. (although on banned it is often quoted as financial recklesness)

In NT it says something about giving and not expecting in return. Since you protest that, by reasoning you cannot be a christian,but rather a pharisee in your approach to the person that is currently not contributing in gold. But rather contributes by the presence of her most precious in the activities and sharing of others.

And your limited willingness to accept this contribution makes your pharaseic judgment of calling such thievery.

There you have my assesment and reasoning, you financial judas.

Nck

Anonymous said...

4.56 PM
Sure, lets not pay the ministers. They can live under bridges and scavenge through rubbish bins to find something to eat. Why don't you lead the way through your personal example.

Anonymous said...

No modern day minister needs to be taking a salary from forced titihing. They should have their own jobs in order to learn humility and not to live lives of excess. Members do not need to be paying for large houses, expensive cars, auditoriums, jet airplanes or colleges. Members money needs to go to caring for those less fortunate as they are, the homeless, the widows and orphans.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 2:37 PM said: "Perhaps you missed it, but one of the ten commandments is don't steal. Other church members are paying for the minister that benefits his family. Other members are paying the rented hall that benefits his family. He is leeching off others."

Indeed, the Eighth Commandment forbids stealing. But, who is really guilty of the sin of stealing?
A) The Christian who believes s/he is obeying God when s/he gives ten percent of his/her income to a religious institution (i.e. man-made church)?
B) The Christian "minister" who tells his current and prospective congregants that the Bible teaches they have to give their money tithes to him otherwise they're stealing from God?

IMHO money tithes are a violation of the Eighth Commandment as the Israelites were never instructed to tithe on gold or silver let alone paper "money" i.e. Mammon. They were instructed to give a tenth of agricultural produce and livestock, which were to be given to the landless Levites who then in turn gave a "tithe of the tithe" to the Aaronic priesthood. In the NT the Christian model was freewill offerings going to support congregations and alms going to support the poor and needy. The apostle Paul himself worked as a tentmaker so he would be able to give alms to the poor. He never demanded tithes from his followers. Nor does the Scriptures teach Christians to give money tithes or freewill offerings on the seven annual holy days. I suggest you read Russell Earl Kelly's Should the Church Teach Tithing? for true, sound and solid Biblical and Christian teaching on the subject of tithing. I believe these "ministers" and "churches" that continue to demand support via mandatory money tithes like HWA and his WCG and its offshoots are "cursed with a curse" and under divine judgment for truly stealing from God's poor, needy, widows, orphans, strangers, defenseless and innocent.

nck said...

Such "drama queens".

-ministers scavenging through rubbish bins
-giving malm ammunition

You guys are hilarious in your self righteousness.


"Hmm, I say that people should pay for services rendered to them."

Very good you admit that YOU are saying that. It is not in the bible that people SHOULD.
Although it would be a good thing if they would.


Most of the American tycoons tithed. Rockefeller, Carnegie, the IBM founders and many more.
I don't think any of them would have felt this "obligation" as a "payment for services rendered."

I'm not saying the apostle Paul SHOULD spent his time on fish nets instead of preaching. But it is a good thing he did. BTW the Pope drives a little ford car. I'm not sure how Henry would have felt about that.

nck



Anonymous said...

"The Scarboroughs would prefer to resolve this matter outside of court and is hopeful that Living Church will be agreeable to beginning discussions in furtherance of such goal. We expect to receive your response on how you wish to proceed with this matter in seven (7) days from the date of this correspondence. If we do not hear from you by this time we will see your lack of response as an unwillingness to resolve this out of court and will initiate civil action in the Superior Court of Mecklenburg County."

Why would LCG let the 7 days pass without correspondence?

I'm having a hard time understanding.

Anonymous said...

Anon 7:20 PM illustrates well the danger of drinking before you post.

Nowhere in the Bible are tithes equated with payment for "services rendered." God commands that He be given His tithes. A minister who demands tithes as belonging to him for "services rendered" will soon enough face a mighty condemnation from his God, as a thief claiming proprietorship over what is His alone.

Members are expected to serve God, whether or not they are paid to do that service. Same with ministers. A minister who feels that his service is impeded by insufficient (or lack of) payment is precisely one thing: a hireling.

anonymous63 said...

Maybe this, "give the gold or you're a thief" person could promote their congregation or entire church organization to live communally and everybody give everything they have into a common pot and it will be divided equally as they did in the early new testament church. Sound reasonable anonymous? Or would that be too hard for those that like having their way paid for by everybody else?

How is it that you would rather sit in judgement rather than supporting any and all who care to hear the word of God? Freely you have received, freely give.

Trouble with the COG's and self appointed guru's is that much of what they practice /teach doesn't mesh properly with the word of God. It's good to follow the rules /law BUT without love which is defined in 1 Corinthians 13 and no mention of rules/law, our 'walk' is MEANINGLESS and FUTILE. If I know and understand everything and tell of everything that will come but don't have love... i nothing.

Love is the missing ingredient. Let s/he who has an ear...

Anonymous said...

Not one of us here on this forum witnessed any of the the conversations (or lack thereof) that Scarboroughs claimed to have taken place. No one here knows for certain Catherine sent 40 letters to LCG. No one here witnessed anything either side claims the other side did or did not do. There are thousands of frivolous lawsuits thrown out in court every year in the good ol' USA. And this was one of them. Anyone can claim whatever they want to and bring a lawsuit against anyone for nearly anything. This is a litigious culture that we live in. Just because someone is sued doesn't mean the lawsuit is valid. So all of you "expert eyewitnesses" are just wasting your time commenting on the "merits" of the Scaraboroughs case. Because in the end - not one you was there to witness any of it. This is a case of "he said she said". End of story in my opinion.

Anonymous said...

@ anon 9:53

It isn't "he said, she said " when there are depositions in existence that rod mcnair and rod meredith gave under oath/affirmation. That pretty much seals it as fact. But go ahead and believe whatever you want if it makes your LCG existence easier to bear.

Byker Bob said...

Yes. If oath doesn't seal the deposition as fact, that would mean that the person being deposed is willing to lie under oath, and is therefore also not able to be trusted to be truthful while preaching, or administrating. Whoops! Big dose of cognitive dissonance there either way.

BB

RSK said...

So, you suggest the deposition quotes are falsified?

Anonymous said...

Nck
So according to you, "It is not in the bible that people SHOULD (pay for services rendered). Really? How about 'a workman is worthy of his wages.' Or Mal. 3.5 '..and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages,' Many times God states that the heavens, the Earth and everything on it is His because He CREATED it. That is, goods and services rightly belong to those who produce the goods and services. This is hard wired into reality. Which is why our leeching, parasitical friend should pay for from his families church benefits.

Anonymous said...

I don't mean to be insensitive, but I find this court case heart warming. For every person that stands up to these Gestapo churches, there are many people who for a variety of reason, can't stand up for themselves.
The Scarboroughs are sending a message to these groups that their leaders are not above the law. They can't do what ever they please without possible negative consequence for themselves. For bully ministers, that's all that they consider.

nck said...

6;44

Why are you quoting OT to me while we were discussing christianity?

In the NT I encounter that lady with the penny. And as others mentioned the contemporary lady did pay god what is due to him, she just didnt pay a certain corporation.

Nck

Anonymous said...

Nck,
Christ on a number of occasions quoted from the old testament. So Christ believed the OT was part of Christianity. When asked about inheriting eternal life, Christ said 'keep the commandments,' and repeated some of the OT ten commandments.

Mickey said...

Something that seems to be lost in all discussion about tithing is that stewardship is part of the tithing system. Throwing good money after bad is poor resource management. Individuals in the LCG (and similar) have no voice but the thing they can control is money. And even that is limited because of the centralized government of the COGs. They cannot directly impact their local minister because of central disbursement. The best they can hope for is that someone at "headquarters" will note the drop in donations and wonder if the local minister is to blame. Although the most likely result is to be screamed at for "robbing God".

nck said...

3:29

I think I have shown I am not against the principle of tithing and I've quoted prime examples of the millions who did/do!

My objection was the "payment for services rendered", the implicit reciprocity and the name calling of a tither.

God does not specify how he reciprocates. The "blessing" to that lady might even include your nuggets of wisdom after services. Or as my kin firmly believes, the special unexpected discount at Walmarts.

Anyway. The fact that meeting halls do not come free I appreciate. Perhaps that person is helping cleaning or painting in time. I don't know. In any case I don't believe volunteers in any church expect god to have them immediately paid "for services rendered" and should not blaspheme, call names, if they are not after having offered voluntary service.

A contractual obligation would be different (like catering, or professional landscaping).
I also was not in favor of the experimental automatic deduction of tithes from church employee's salaries for administrative reasons. That is turning the world upside down, that is a deduction not a gift.

nck

Anonymous said...

Nck,
You are compartmentalising contractual obligations. In fact contractual obligation exist in all human relationships, be it one on one as in a friendship, or in a group such as a church. The terms and conditions are often implicit, but they are nether the less always there. Violating these conditions for the purpose of getting something for nothing, makes one a thief. This is not name calling, but calling a spade a spade. Yours is the proclivity of some who want to do evil but want to be thought of as virtuous, or who want to steal and be thought of as honest. This is plain childishness.
There's the age old adage of "there ain't no free lunch." You obviously do not agree, so I don't think we can ever see eye to eye.
By the way, that this person tithes to others but gives not one cent to the church that he attends is ridiculous. That's not the way the way the world works.
If you believe him, I have a bridge for sale. I can also sell you a house and land package on Mars.
He is a thief

nck said...

"I can also sell you a house and land package on Mars. "

Thank you I am already supporting Elon in his endeavors, so I am taking care of regarding our planetary heritage.


You would have made an excellent and righteous career as a Victorian British judge populating Australia with "thieves." Alas, born in the wrong age. Aren't we all. Non of the tycoons I mentioned, like Rockefeller I, would agree with you judging from their interpretation of tithing.

And they would have been the prime examples of the recipiants of "Jacobs" blessing.
Or would you pose that their billions were earned and solely theirs?
Again they would not agree on that point either. Since Carnegie made it point to be a "custodian" and give it all away.

nck


Anonymous said...

We do not think we are theifs. We are multi generation of the church. We have giveing tithes and our families have, on both sides go back over 50 years. We are not rich below the poverty line but over those I'm sure counting all those year our families could had paid for and own several church building. As we said we still tithe but not to a church, we have nothing to do with the minister and we help the people out at church when we can and we still pay for camp. And don't worry about the ministers most live better than their members. Martha we thoght about contacting you , but we don't want to risk it.