Wednesday, May 16, 2018

Dave Pack Battles The Demonic Cult Within The Church

More tales from the dark side with Dave Pack to prove to RCG members he can work with demons.  Of course, he claims these people lied when told HQ that he "too judgmental and harsh" when they denied such a thing happening.  As usual, Dave took no responsibility and blamed it all on the "liberals."

Secret Cult—Inside the Church

The Packs stayed with a local family for 10 days until they found a home. Almost immediately, since no other ministers had yet arrived in the area, Mr. Pack received a call from a local member, who told him that her husband was involved with a thing called “personality demons.” The young elder was at first hesitant, but it was soon obvious that what she described was not a hoax, and the problem had been widespread.
After some investigating, it became clear that one of the three previous ministers transferred from the area had taught and deceived a great many into accepting a ridiculous and bizarre belief: that every human being is born possessed by a demon!—and that conversion is in fact a lifelong process of self-exorcism!
This was happening in God’s Church!
A large, but secret, group of people in the two congregations were literally on a first name basis with demons. All members of this inside-the-Church-cult believed that they each had their own “personality demon,” referred to in code as their “PD.” Individuals were taught to daily “call forth” a “good spirit” that God was said to have assigned to them from birth. This “good angel” then supposedly “helped” the person get rid of his or her “bad angel,” or “evil spirit.” These terribly misled people were actually talking to twodemon spirits, with one masquerading as an angel.
The apostle Paul warned the ancient Corinthians—and all Bible students today—that “Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light” (II Cor. 11:14). This was certainly true of the “good angel,” said to be working with each member.
Every day, the members involved would “call forth” their “bad angels” to talk and reason with them. These masquerading spirits would claim, for example, “I’m your good angel. I’m here to help”—or “I’m your bad angel. You need to get rid of me.”
The misguided people then wrote down the chilling messages and instructions from these spirits in endless notebooks as a futile attempt to “exorcise” themselves. Those thought to be members of God’s Church were actually inviting demons into their lives, thinking they were “pushing them out”!
Because the previous associate pastor had been so influential and well-liked in the congregation, he was able to persuade many to accept these demonic beliefs—and possibly lead them to what could in fact become the very possession they thought they were escaping. This minister was actually trying to cast a spirit out of his own infant son!
“Somewhere in my basement I still have a pile of full notebooks of many who were involved in this terrible activity. That such a perverse practice could enter God’s Church, and in a relatively large way, was hard to believe. For me, it was a sobering example of how determined the devil is in his desire to infiltrate the Church and cause confusion and destruction among God’s people. And the pastor knew nothing of it.
“I later found myself counseling a young man in the group, while at my house, with my wife present, who began to speak to me in seven different voices, each spirit only too happy to give me its name. I cast all of the demons out, right there in my den, and found myself very thankful for training I had received just months earlier.
“This was more training of an extraordinary nature, something one could not imagine, never mind expect to be part of his field experience. It would take its place among the many unique elements of my training that I could only later understand for their collective value.”

Experimentation with Spirit World Downplayed

Once Mr. Pack had gathered sufficient information on the “PD” cult, he contacted his area coordinator, still living at Headquarters. The man planned to immediately come to investigate.
When he arrived, Mr. Pack had been on a scheduled vacation to Milwaukee. The offending minister came with him and downplayed Mr. Pack’s report. He carefully covered up the situation and his followers did the same. The investigating area coordinator believed that the matter had been terribly exaggerated. Mr. Pack was not there to challenge the investigation with the facts.
The men left almost as quickly as they had arrived. The area coordinator later phoned Mr. Pack and suggested that the matter had been overblown.
Mr. Pack could not believe his ears—a representative from Headquarters, his future boss, believed the discovery of a large secret cult operating within God’s Church was “overblown”?!
The young minister was unsure of how to handle a matter this serious. It was another trial on top of the original trial of discovering the cult.
First, Mr. Pack was determined to get more information in preparation for his supervisor’s arrival, so he asked more questions of the brethren involved who were willing to talk. Finally, one man’s wife turned over her husband’s “personality demon” notebook.
Relying on chain of command for the solution, he called his superior back.
“I told him, ‘You are about to inherit a serious problem when you settle in the area. This whole thing was swept under the rug. I have looked into this much more, and gathered many additional facts. A truly unbelievable situation is developing in this pastorate!’”
When the area supervisor arrived, he examined the writings—irrefutable evidence that a demon-influenced cult of about 110 people had been secretly thriving among Christ’s flock! The associate pastor was immediately removed from the ministry.
Incredibly, certain brethren involved pointed to Mr. Pack as the root of the problem, saying that he was “too judgmental and harsh”! Some actually believed the young minister should have been “more understanding” of the local brethren’s “difficulties”—in other words, they thought he should toleratedemons and a form of angel worship among God’s people!
Mr. Pack recalls that the situation revealed how many who attended the Church could not possibly have been part of the Body of Christ.
“I was aware that certain opposing views and rebellious attitudes had entered the Church during the 1974 rebellion. But now, over two years later, I saw that even though thousands of brethren and scores of ministers had left, there were still men in the ministry who privately held to a host of different kinds of ideas, many of them truly bizarre.
“Starting in the 1970s, the term ‘liberal’ was used in the Worldwide Church of God. The phrase really doesn’t refer to a specific behavior or attitude, but rather encompasses a variety of different attitudes and unacceptable conduct that had entered the Church, which all had the same beginning.
“Before the liberal years, nobody ever questioned Mr. Armstrong’s authority and expected to remain in the Church. Everyone recognized that he alone was the leader of the Church. Publicly disagreeing meant openly acknowledging a decision to leave the Church. This changed in the 1970s as people began to feel more comfortable expressing their disagreement in a variety of areas.
“In the Church, the word ‘liberal’ has always been synonymous with permissive, overly tolerant, lax views toward accepted Church doctrine and members’ behavior. Unlike churches of the world that view conduct and beliefs in shades of gray, the Church of God understood that God’s Law is black and white.
“It was simply unbelievable that these kinds of things could happen in the Church of God. It was only years after that I could really understand I was seeing things that were preparing me for a role that would come much later. It was as though each new assignment was adding important training that would not normally be experienced in the ‘average pastorate’ or ‘average ministry.’”


Anonymous said...

If Packatollah would listen to Bart Ehrman and David Duke he would readily see how he has been played like a fiddle!

Dumbhead said...

Just a side note, If a demon knew that some minister could cast them out why wouldn't they just shut their mouths in his presence and not give themselves away?

Anonymous said...

Dumbhead, don't you know anything about ACOG ideas of spiritual power? The hierarchy goes something like this:


DennisCDiehl said...

Dave has always fixated on demons and his incredible ability to spot them and cast them out. Back in the day when Dave was my parents and sister's pastor in NY, he had a talk with my brother in law about their baby children, on the classic floor pallat during church, were demon possessed because they cried a bit during Dave's sermon. Of course, aside from being young children, probably bored to death, this demonic crying was Satan's way of disrupting Dave's incredibly important sermon. My family, including my Dad who was an elder under Dave always thought Dave was an oddball and not to be taken too seriously. It's what saved them from Dave's mistaken notions rubbing off on them.

Dave is, of course, a classic narcissist but with the added touch "with religious content." That's a doozy of a combo.

Byker Bob said...

Origen (early church father whom Armstrongism blanketly labels as “Catholic”) believed that we humans are the demons, incarnated, and being given an opportunity for redemption by a loving Father.

There are also those who believe that the demons have been chained or restrained by Jesus Christ so that Christians are placed off limits to them, and cannot be possessed or harmed by them.

In spite of what Armstrongism taught about demons, and the unnatural fear (and nightmares) this brought into church members’ lives, I can’t recall any personal exposure to them. It seems that lay people used the concept to explain what trained professionals know to be totally identifiable mental illnesses, PTSD, or mildly abstract thinking. Others use it to induce fear, like those who claim to practice Santeria. Demons were an all-purpose scapegoat to quickly explain social trends, art and fashions, leaders of the Democratic party, and anything negative that appeared to be happening to “God’s True Church”.

I don’t know what to make of this latest narrative extracted from Dave’s writings. I do know that there were many simple-minded church members whom it would be easy to believe were capable of buying into such ridiculous things as personal demons, and also why Dave would interpret this as their having opened the door to what he imagined to be the “real” thing. What self-aggrandizing narcissist wouldn’t exploit such a situation to make it appear that he wielded supernatural power himself?

It would be interesting if we had a second opinion from valid mental health professionals who had access to the facts and personalities involved in this situation. It appears that some people may have allowed their imaginations to run wild and amuck, including Dave himself. Clearly, there was something in this for him, something that he has been able to use and exploit to his own advantage, adding undue weight to his stature.


RSK said...

" of the three previous ministers transferred from the area had taught and deceived a great many into accepting a ridiculous and bizarre belief: that every human being is born possessed by a demon!—and that conversion is in fact a lifelong process of self-exorcism!"

I really don't have a problem seeing how people operating under the WCG belief system could conclude that. You born carnal, predestinally deceived, susceptible to "SAY-TAN AN HIS DEEEEEEEMONS" and so forth, how much of a leap is it to jump to "we're all born with an assigned demon"? And given the semi-mystical way the baptism rite was sometimes described (bringing the holy spirit into your mind and all that), how far is that from "conversion is overcoming your assigned demon"? Doesn't seem like it would take much misunderstanding of WCG grouptalk for some people to get into that idea.

Hell, at my workplace I usually get tasked with training our crew on new equipment, and I'm always amazed at how easily people manage to misinterpret simple statements and turn their misinterpretations into an entire unfounded methodology that has to be addressed later.

Anonymous said...

A cult within a cult? It's like a Russian Nesting Doll, or a reflection of a reflection of a reflection

nck said...


I think that is an excellent analysis.
I don't think BB's assertion is right that "suddenly a large body of people in the same congregation get mentally ill".

RSK's analysis is also in line with other statements on this board that seem to indicate that many pastors at times introduced certain "pet theories in local areas" of which the larger body was not aware. Another argument that "rotation of pastors" could be a good thing.

I'm glad one of our pastors "pet theory" was about interpersonal and interhuman relations and care, instead of demon posession. After rotation we got a more rational, structural, organizational type, focussing on "the work", prophecy and headlines and the future work in the kingdom, mostly rational and not so much fear and demons. Perhaps the occasional mention of speculation about UFO and demon visits but not so spectacular as ministers I heard about visiting the EMEA region and rolling eye visits.


Anonymous said...

Comment made said: "...As usual, Dave took no responsibility and blamed it all on the "liberals."..."

Dave Pack's blaming/judging others (e.g. liberals) proves that he does not believe the following verse:

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Ephesians 6:12

Expect Dave Pack's wrestling with flesh and blood to continue.

Time will tell...


Byker Bob said...

Nck, when you quote something that another poster is supposed to have said, it’s usually good form to utilize their exact words. Kind of preserves the entire meaning thingie, if you catch my drift. Otherwise, you come off like a swooping hanging judge type ACOG minister just salivating over an opportunity to put a sheep’s tail between his legs.


Connie Schmidt said...

Now let me get this straight... How to Follow Dave Pack

You are to leave the Demon WCG cult to remain in the General WcG cult, which you must leave to join the Meredith Cult, which in turn you must leave to join the ultimate Dave Pack Cult.

I tell this to the Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons that occasionally come to the door as my excuse for not spending time talking to them ... "Sorry, but we have a family rule... only one cult per lifetime" LOL!

Byker Bob said...

Exactly, Connie! What Dave Pack probably expected was what one generally found historically in Armstrongism and amongst other such groups. You can’t bond with members or set up a rapport with them based on really knowing them as individuals with actual personality and their own opinions. If you wished to have a conversation with anyone in the church, basically all you were going to get was more easily accessable by just reading the Plain Truth, and Good News or listening to the latest sermon. This is why the phrase “cult zombies” exists.

Want to visit with Mom and Dad? Save gas. You can know in advance everything they’re going to say based on what’s between the covers of the PT, or the constant offering of “Mr. Armstrong says” (or “said” as if now).

This experience must have been shocking to Dave, more because it was based on semi-independent (it still came from their minister) thought than because it was based on another very stupid one size fits all theory.


Still Learning said...

"Sorry, but we have a family rule... only one cult per lifetime."

Connie, that is the most awesome thing I've read this week!!!

DennisCDiehl said...

Had a couple of JWs show up and so feeling cheeky invited them in. They just sat there until I asked them what they would like to talk about. They said they had no idea as they never had gotten this far before... :)

Anonymous said...

David Pack talks a lot and writes a lot. In the end he steals a lot and comes up with a lot of new crazy prophecy.

Allen Dexter said...

So many churches, especially Pentecostals and the ACOGs, see a demon behind everything they can't explain simplistically. They have no tolerance for psychiatry because it debunks their superstition. It permeated WCG. Nobody was just crazy. If they had a psychological crisis, it had to be demons.

Anonymous said...

I believe Pack. I don't like his lifestyle and how he runs his Church but on this i believe his account.
I would not be shocked if darkness similar to what Pack mentions was still going on in various ways within WCG splinters.

What About The Truth said...

“I was aware that certain opposing views and rebellious attitudes had entered the Church during the 1974 rebellion. But now, over two years later, I saw that even though thousands of brethren and scores of ministers had left, there were still men in the ministry who privately held to a host of different kinds of ideas, many of them truly bizarre.

Mr. Pack has admitted repeatedly that he harbored many different ideas through the years and many of those ideas formed the basis for the expansive "Greatest Story Never Told" sermon series. I guess Mr. Pack doesn't consider it bizarre to teach that Jesus Christ will first come to Wadsworth, Ohio to usher in the Kingdom of God. What about his previous teaching (Since changed) that he would be the builder of the third temple in Jerusalem. What about his claim of being Elijah That Prophet or Joshua the High Priest and the list goes on and on. There is not enough space to compile all of the bizarre teachings and ideas for that matter, promulgated by Mr. Pack. Make no mistake, these teachings of his set back in time to 1986 would constitute extreme liberalism compared to HWA's teachings.

Since Mr. Pack wants to portray to the reader of this biography that liberalism and bizarre ideas are tied to the demon world, how far should the reader look for evidence of such within his own organization? If Mr. Pack criticizes and excoriates other splinter organizations for donations to the poor and needy, is not that completely opposite to what Jesus Christ taught? And if he is teaching the opposite of what Jesus Christ taught - that would be considered the spirit of Antichrist.

The ill wind that blows from the RCG constitutes a self-aggrandizing leader who breaks up marriages for a dollar, has no concern for the poor and needy, teaches against Christ all with the backdrop of superiority of religion.

How close to the demon world does the leader of the RCG stand? A lot closer than many would have ever guessed.

Byker Bob said...

In high school, we called such people as Dave Pack “bullshit artists”. They were sometimes fun to be around if you didn’t take everything they said seriously. The problem with Dave, though, is that he has created an environment in which one is forced to take him seriously. As in the case of Hitler, you can’t just write him off as comic value. He’s a combination shock jock and enforcer.