A reader below commented about the following posting by Bob Thiel on his page. Apparently Bob had/has issues with the LCG's new stance on the "falling away" belief. Bob thinks that LCG is changing it's stance and voiced his concern about a change in doctrine. Bob wrote several papers on the topic and presented them to LCG HQ to correct them in their new stance. LCG refused to take his black and white beliefs into consideration. Several have told me that while Winnail was sympathetic to his disagreement and permitted the opportunity to disagree while still remaining an LCG member, others in Charlotte were not happy with Bob's questioning attitude. While the Obama book may have been the tipping point to bring about the stinging rebuke from Meredith, there are other coals in the fire not being made public at the moment.
09/07/12 p.m. Some have asked me about my position on the "falling away" matter. At this stage, let me state that on May 13, 2012, when it looked like a change in formal position may be taking place, I contacted the HQ evangelists and urged them to reconsider certain points. Dr. Winnail ended up contacting me late the next month and discussed his idea to come out to see me. Before I played his "Falling Away" sermon, I was told in July 2012 by two LCG ministers that I would probably not have issues with that sermon, so I played it and watched it. After watching it, I contacted LCG and produced several documents stating my concerns which were sent in July and August 2012.
Today, Dr. Winnail informed me (orally and via email) that while one can disagree with the Council's primary current interpretation on the falling away matter, which I do, one can still be part of the Living Church of God while holding a different view.
08/20/12 a.m. Received a few emails related to the "falling away" matter. Be assured that I am trying to work this out with LCG's leadership.
07/14/2012 p.m. Saw the "must-play" DVD by Dr. D. Winnail today titled The Falling Away. It was quite different than I had been led to believe.
12 comments:
"08/20/12 a.m. Received a few emails related to the "falling away" matter. Be assured that I am trying to work this out with LCG's leadership."
Right there..that's what people find smug and pretentious in RT's approach.
"Be assured I am trying to work this out with LCG's leadership" may as well say...
"I will certainly be looking into this for you who have questions and keep trying to get the leaders of LCG to come to their senses on this matter."
While I don't mean this as a compliment to anyone or a positive comparison, it is another case of..
"Galatians 2:6-9
New International Version (NIV)
6 As for those who were held in high esteem—whatever they were MAKES NO DIFFERENCE to me; God does not show favoritism—THEY ADDED NOTHING to my message. 7 On the contrary, they recognized that I HAD BEEN ENTRUSTED with the task of preaching the gospel to the uncircumcised,[a] just as Peter had been to the circumcised.[b] 8 For God, who was at work in Peter as an apostle to the circumcised, was also at work in ME as an apostle to the Gentiles. 9 James, Cephas[c] and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they RECOGNIZED the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised."
This is a battle of ego on both parts. Someone has to WIN and someone has to back off or SUBMIT.
In my view, Robert has rarely seen how smug and self righteous he comes across in his writings and image of himself. His "sadly and of course," "we in the Living Church of God," "a double portion of the Holy Spirit," and "be assurred, I am TRYING to work this out with.." which means "they don't get it yet..and I'm not wrong" exemplifies this and what the members see.
This will end badly for all unless the eye that sees can see itself.
M.T.Pews
I agree, I disagree. Who cares?
Where two or three are gathered together in an organization, one tells us all how it is, one listens and one gets to clean up.
"Where two or three are gathered together in an organization, one tells us all how it is, one listens and one gets to clean up."
Click here to see this hierarchical principle expressed on a church's sign.
Norm
People in Armstrongism should not fall away, they should run away.
Ego does strange things to people if not controlled.
I used to wonder why Christians became cloistered, or self-quarantined. But, Christians are not the only ones who do this. Most of us feel most comfortable being around people who have similar (and comfortable) views to our own. We can often see others as being negative, while we're just on a different wavelength. That is why labels are so universally unfair.
From my own perspective, I tend to see people as negative if they want to continually take a giant crap on the blessings for which I give God credit. When I was an atheist/agnostic, I saw Christianity as being superstition, with God and Jesus being cartoon characters whom people thought had the ability to tell us how to live. I longed for a Star Trek world, based on enlightenment through the best in human logic. And, those polar opposites are not the only perspectives. There is a lot between the lines.
I don't believe Bob Thiel, considering his own self-image, could ever become part of Packistan as some have suggested. He may at some point feel as if he is being called to start his own group, patterned after what he picks and chooses as the best elements from LCG
BB
Goodness, folks, the LAST thing Thiel will do is join Pack. He's hammered the guy incessantly for years.
More likely, he'd do his own thing; maybe even grown a big, bushy, prophet-like beard -- like Dankenbring and Edwards, his predecessors in the pseudo-intellectual COG crowd.
Yep, the Packatollah only wants "yes-people"; NOT someone known for suggesting he knows better than the leadership does.
Norm
In my experience, questioning the leadership is never seen as a good thing by said leadership. That goes extra for those organizations that push "government". Us little people are to sit and listen and learn because the leadership knows far more than we ever will. (ok, I used a little hyperbole there)
Bob's big mistake (IMHO) has been in championing a corporate entity, instead of The Church.
It's possible that there are members of The Church at LCG, and at most of the other organizations. They sit quietly and listen, and then do as God says regardless of what the leadership of their particular organization tells them. It's possible to learn from the ministery, even when they get it wrong. That is why we are there, to learn (from the ministery, and each other). We know that the minsters are human and subject to error, even though some of them seem unaware of it.
Putting too much attention on the "man" will distract you from doing as God instructs. We don't worship our leadership, we worship God. (well, that's how it's supposed to work, anyway)
In the end, it's all about making it into the kingdom. That is the first priority, and we should never forget that.
Getting all worked up over disagreements about future prophesied events is such a waste. Both sides are usually wrong anyway.
I also found it interesting that while Dr. Bob stresses his loyalty to LCG, an organization that pushes "government" as they do, he wrote a book that appears to be critical of the top leader of a nation.
Does anyone else see a problem there?
Just A Member
"Us little people are to sit and listen and learn because the leadership knows far more than we ever will. (ok, I used a little hyperbole there)"
Um, no you didn't.
I am betting that Dr. Bob will be kicked out before the end of the year - he just will not be able to submit to "God's government.". Then he will (sadly and of course) have no choice except to use his double portion of the HS to continue the work that God has personally chosen him to do.
Glenn Parker
Lucky in some ways, unlucky in others. Thiel's days with LCG do seem to be numbered. He's left such a massive paper trail that is literally impossible to get rid of. Even if he "repented" as defined by the ministry of LCG, it's doubtful that he would ever completely enjoy people's trust. Seems like there is much resentment of him, much the same as there would be for a sibling that took on the role of extra parent.
On the other hand, the 911 events over in Libya and Egypt will probably give "Dr." Bob a spike in interest in his book.
BB
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