Tuesday, May 17, 2016

Philadelphia Church of God: John Amos Equal To If Not Greater Than Christ

His Holiness Saint John Amos

The Philadelphia Church of God has reposted a mind-numbing post on why PCG members MUST remember John Amos.  Forget Jesus Christ, John Amos deserves your reverence!

Everything about this article is truly disgusting!

Gareth Fraser is the author.  He is the son of the legalistic tyrant Ron Fraser who died in 2013.

Gareth  starts his article off by quoting Gerald Flurry who made the claim that John Amos had attained the highest success possible that any man on earth has ever had.  That relegates Jesus Christ back to the corner as the weak, impotent, effeminate grace-ite that is ignored.  Besides, Amos is better than Jesus Christ.
“John Amos has just achieved the greatest success attainable on Earth!” wrote editor in chief Gerald Flurry on the cover of the June 1993 Philadelphia News. The article recounted the biblical promises to those who die “in the faith,” such as this man born in 1929.
He then closes the article with the belief that Amos will be sitting on the same throne as Jesus Christ.
And finally, in his booklet Who Is ‘That Prophet’?, Mr. Flurry fittingly remembered his loyal friend and confidant: “Mr. Amos has these words written on his gravestone: ‘To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne’ (Revelation 3:21). I know Mr. Amos is going to be there with Christ on that throne. Will we be there with him?”
You can read the rest of this disgust display of bullshit here:  Why You Must Remember John Amos 

Also check this out:

What Did John Amos Really Die Of?


Anonymous said...

This happened a lot in the old WCG and has also happened a lot in the offshoots. The only funeral I ever conducted was for a little five-year-old girl in New York who needlessly died of a severe respiratory infection in January of 1962. I know, in the whole scheme of things, her death isn't all that important, but who knows what her life could have been (she'd be in her late fifties now) and what the lives of all those other people could have been. How blind we all were at that time. Allen C. Dexter

Byker Bob said...

John Amos? No, one of the people I'm looking forward to meeting and speaking with in the Kingdom is Jerry Garcia. Never went to any Dead concerts. But I came real close. Towards the end of a Los Lobos concert back in the '90s, I suddenly heard David and Cesar easing into the chords for the Dead's "Bertha". Their encore. Knew it was going to be awesome, couldn't help myself and began dancing in the aisle. Next thing I knew, there was a ring of about 7 or 8 Mexican ladies surrounding me, smiling, and and dancing along. It had been a drag in that I'd gone to that concert alone, but this ended up being one of the best concert memories of all times.

Beats the hell out of Irish dancing any day of the week! You teenagers in the PCG don't know what you're missing. But hang in there! They'll be plenty of time to enjoy life when you leave home.


Redfox712 said...

Thanks for the links. It is much appreciated.

Ron Fraser was prone to saying wild hyperbole. In 2008 he wrote a booklet entitled Australia—Where to Now? which was written in response to the election of the left wing Labour Party government in 2007. In one particularly bizarre passage he insinuated that Australia, the nation of his nativity, did not deserve to survive.

"It was Sir Winston Churchill who pointed to the truism that any nation that forgets its past does not deserve to survive." (Ron Fraser, Australia—Where to Now?, 2008, p. 43.)

Fraser hid his attitude behind Winston Churchill. But it was Ron Fraser saying these things about Australia.

In Fraser's context this means that Australia did not deserve to survive to survive, seemingly because a Labour Party government got elected.

I find it hard to conceive of the anger and bitterness that must have existed in his heart for him to imply that Australia does not deserve to survive.

In my opinion he deserves to be labelled an extremist.

Redfox712 said...

Here's another terrible thing Ron Fraser said. Shockingly Ron Fraser muses that Nazi tyranny over Britain would not have been as bad modern day society.

"One has to wonder if such a judicial attitude had prevailed during World War II—in which British soldiery often entered battle grossly underequipped—whether the rule of the tyrant who could have overwhelmed Britain would have produced results any worse than the present tyranny of the feminist, homophile, politically correct thinking that dominates the British judiciary." (Ron Fraser, 'Human Rights' in Warfare?, August 2009.)

The Nazis would have murdered the Jews in Britain. In fact a few Jews who were on the Nazi occupied Channel Islands were deported to the Death Camps and murdered by the Nazis.

How dare Fraser should minimize the horror of what would have happened if the Nazis conquered Britain. Shame on him and shame on the PCG leadership for allowing these terrible words to be published.

Byker Bob said...

PS, the Los Lobos version is on You Tube.

Just google Los Lobos, Bertha, live and get ready for some ear candy!


Anonymous said...

I have pondered about the true attitude of church members toward God. They mouth the right things in opening and closing church service prayers, but then persecute the truly converted members. If people love God, shouldn't they also love righteous church members? Do they secretly hate God??

Anonymous said...

As a member of the PCG one of the strangest and most irritating things I have observed attending with the group is the PCG’s bizarre obsession with its own history.

PCG leadership never miss an opportunity to celebrate or commemorate some date or anniversary, or go on some self-indulgent trip down memory lane about one of its personalities. Nostalgia and personality addiction is the only way I can term it. There are so many dates and PCG personalities to remember that the average member would struggle to name them all. The only personality that is routinely overlooked is Jesus Christ, however saying that would make me “protestant”.

One of the most important dates in PCG that is forcibly celebrated each year is the anniversary of the PCG's founding on 7 December 1989. This date is commemorated almost at gun point on the closest Sabbath to that date each December with a cake cutting ceremony at services. Any individual that does not acknowledge this event would be considered nothing less than a heretic. To see an example of this particular pathology in action read the following article (there is a scrolling graphic showing the cakes – enjoy!):


Another strange date always celebrated is the July 1989 WCG campout at Robber’s Cave, OK. It was then that Gerald Flurry gave his son Stephen a draft copy of Malachi’s Message to read. As such this date is largely considered to be the time the work of the PCG officially started. During the Robber’s Cave campout weekend each year members are reminded about the importance of Gerald and Stephen Flurry, oh and of course Robber’s Cave. You can read about it here


To witness what effect this obsession with dates and personalities has had on the PCG, especially it’s younger generation, you should read this tripe:


Side note: The above “article” was a combined effort from Gerald Flurry’s grandchildren Grant and Paris Turgeon. In case you were wondering they are both employed by the PCG (I know it’s hard to believe).

Whether it is the twelfth anniversary of the founding of the college, or the eighth anniversary of the court case, twenty five years since Malachi’s Message or the second anniversary of the purchase of the campus in Britain, the tenth anniversary of the last hour, or thirtieth anniversary of Mr Armstrong’s death, you can be sure PCG will commemorate it in some bizarre fashion. It is almost a collective obsessive compulsive disorder.

The upshot of it all is this: dates and personalities not only matter in the PCG, they are literally worshipped.

Is it because PCG’s work is so small and getting smaller that they seek validation and substance by creating their own pseudo-history? Romanticising about dates or the personalities they relate to seems to be the principle way substance is achieved in the PCG.

Human personality and event worship is a not-so-subtle form of idolatry and the PCG is literally full of it. I read Gareth Fraser ingratiating article and did a simple CTRL-F word search on the following terms. The results were quite revealing:

“Jesus”: 0
“Christ”: 2
“God”: 11
“Mr”: 23

Anonymous said...

At least he followed his own teachings and refused medical treatment. Not like others in the WCG who discouraged medical care for members, but was willing to accept it for themselves.

RSK said...

Oddly, the photo of the headstone shows a slightly different verse.

DennisCDiehl said...

I only knew John when a student and he an older man in classes. I did not know his degree of zealousness but I have to say he was, at that time, a very nice guy , funny and very friendly to me at least. He must have come in as an older student at that time. Like John Ogwyn it sounds like he died unnecessarily. The idea, in fact, that some Deity is going to heal you and leave the vast majority undone is a sad fable to accept. I have a friend who bears the scars on his skull, with entire sections seemingly broken and replaced who I assume hit the dashoard at sometime in the past. When I asked him about the accident he said, no..it was a sinus infection that went out of control into his brain and they had to remove part of his skull to relieve the pressure and save him.

Treat for the worst and hope for the best.

Black Ops Mikey said...

Looks a lot like the Doctor on Star Trek Voyager.

Connie Schmidt said...

The argument about a Hitlerian Britain is plain stupid!

Im certainly no fan of the "feminist, homophile, politically correct thinking that dominates the British judiciary", nor am I of many other aspects of current British society. It is true that a Hitlerian Britain would be entirely different than what it is today.

HOWEVER... there would not be a freedom of choice in a Hitlerian Britain. You would either subscribe to Hitler and its "correctness" or you would be killed in a concentration camp. A Sabbatarian , or any other type of Christian is still free to operate and freely practice their religion in Britain or American today.

In Nazi Germany, the state was the religion. Jehovah Witnesses , and many other denominational Christians who did not submit to the state were imprisoned. There would be no Sabbatarian movement in Hitlers Germany.

However, such a bizarre statement is not surprising to come from a group like Flurry's. They do not believe in freedom, nor choice . The do not teach from the standard of desirability , choice, free will, and making the compelling argument for their cause through enlightened self interest. No, in the style of HWA, they use force, coercion, and defacto "death threats", i.e., "lake of fire" to produce conscripted, unnatural, obligatory and labored obedience to their edicts.

No, Flurry has a government Just like the Nazis did, and it is damnable.

Anonymous said...

To L. Jeffries:

Well Said, and Very Interesting Observation!!

And I know where PCG's attitude that came from,,,,the constant Narcissistic mouthings of a 3rd-rate copycat imitation minister who's been telling his people how special they are...for 20+ years now! I saw that in his "White Cliffs" of Dover infomercial, er, I mean church service. My wife and I have run away from PCG ever since!

To those who read their Bibles... What happens to those who are
"Lovers of their Own Selves..."??? II Timothy 3

What kind of Counterfeit "christianity" is in Love with Itself instead of caring
for Others..???

Can it be a synagogue of...[??]

Anonymous said...

Worldwide was fascist to the core and it's hard for me to believe that I once subscribed to all that. Of course, we thought god was at the basis of our fascism, and that made it OK. We couldn't see that no god was involved and we were submitting to a lying, malevolent dictator.

Anonymous said...

"I have pondered about the true attitude of church members toward God. They mouth the right things in opening and closing church service prayers, but then persecute the truly converted members. If people love God, shouldn't they also love righteous church members?"

Not until the MAN on top authorizes it!

"Do they secretly hate God??"

Yes, the God that tells you it's a narrow path and that there will be many learnings, unlearnings, and re-learnings all along that way. If God can know your heart, tell me which is easier to fake in the eyes of others?
Sabbath-keeping or the Golden Rule?


Anonymous said...

Robber’s Cave? Malachi’s Message?


Anonymous said...

BB said:"...some ear candy!"

Thank you.
That phrase triggered some neurons of mine so I'll return the favor with a southern CCR flavored track from a great band that nobody seems to have heard of.

Byker Bob said...

Sorry to disappoint, 5:48, but I had never heard of King's X either. Judging by the Wikipedia article on them, at the time they came out, the "pure rock" thing was going on in So. Cal. via KNAC, and all the G-Rock outlets across the country. I've got casettes from other bands that nobody ever heard of from that era, like Havana Black, the Screaming Trees, and the Four Horsemen. Seems there was a lot of talent that got eclipsed. Anyhoo, thanks for sharing!


Anonymous said...

The no medical treatment, since God will heal brings to mind Acts.

Act 14:11 And seeing what Paul did, the crowd lifted up their voice, saying in Lycaonian, The gods have come down to us, becoming like men.

Paul and Barnabas were regarded as Gods after healing a person. Isn't this what the ministers have in mind, when trying to manipulable God into healing on every occasion.
The fame, and all that power. Submit to tyranny, or no healing.
What their childish, "but you promised, daddy, you promised to heal," ignores is that God sits on His throne, He is in charge, not manipulative ministers. Plus healing is a service that Gods owns. It is His personal property, hence He can say no. Trying to make God a serf to peoples medical problems, is embarrassing. It's the entitlement mentality projected into the bible. That saying applies to God as well: "I am not a number, I am a free man(God)".
Another example of not understanding trade.

Cheers TradingGuy

Anonymous said...

Redfox said: "Shockingly Ron Fraser muses that Nazi tyranny over Britain would not have been as bad modern day society."

Heck, Redfox, knowing what I now know about Radio/Worldwide and it's offshoots, I rarely am shocked by these sorts of things. I kind of expect them!

L Jeffries said: "As a member of the PCG one of the strangest and most irritating things I have observed attending with the group is the PCG’s bizarre obsession with its own history. PCG leadership never miss an opportunity to celebrate or commemorate some date or anniversary, or go on some self-indulgent trip down memory lane..."

As Herbie used to scream about things he didn't like, "WHY? WHY IS THAT?!"
I believe it's because totalitarian cults and regimes use the tactic to cement the bonds between members, between members and leaders, to inspire a sense of awe, and cause members to feel they are an integral part of a God-inspired cosmic mighty cause and work.
I'm reminded of the same sermon that Herbie preached over and over, feast after feast, about the glorious history of the WCG.
Given that he flew to a slew of feast sites every year giving the same sermon over and over again, year after year, I think he had that one well-honed and tweaked for maximum titillation. I remember how, afterward, everyone would be buzzing with awe, inspiration and feeling a part of something huge, holy and awesome.
It was Herbie's "BEST SERMON EVER!"

PS: I think our "lil nck" may still be suffering from it's effects! LOL ;)

Anonymous said...

6.13 AM. He is the Doctor on Star Trek Voyager. He couldn't make ends meet on the 30K they paid him, so he worked part time in the series.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Amos died shortly before I joined the PCG, so of course I never met him. I do know Helen, Ethan and Andrea though. Helen is a really sweet down to earth gal, very common. Her son Ethan is a smug prick! Very arrogant and proud, her daughter Andrea is married to Gareth Fraser, she is sweet, but very best down by Gareth! He is very abusive verbally to her. Every PYC she comes out here to Edmond and stays with her mom. Helen is very vocal about her dislike of Gareth, it is no secret.
I was told over twenty years ago when I first joined the church that Mr Amos had to die because God would only allow one leader. At the time it made perfect sense, lol!
Mr Ron Fraser was quite the legend at HQs. When he died there were two funerals, one for the members (we're the unwashed masses) and one for the family. Immediately after Rons death there was a new ruling that Wayne Turgeon announced, and that is that no one is automatically "sealed" upon death anymore. Ron Fraser was the last one sealed. It was strange for us to all hear that and it seemed rather Catholic, as though the pope had to now declare whether we were saints or not.
Go figure.

Anonymous said...

"Ron Fraser was the last one sealed. It was strange for us to all hear that and it seemed rather Catholic, as though the pope had to now declare whether we were saints or not."

There's a big problem with religiously indoctrinated people arguing and presenting such minutiae as fact.

First, why would anyone who knows about the Bible's evolution and many fallacious chunks even argue about what is nothing but interpretive minutiae?
The only answers I can come up are- 1)They REALLY WANT TO BELIEVE what they want to believe, and, 2)They think they have the "Holy Spirit" to guide them to the TRUE interpretations (which, laughingly, when you check out what those people say, has guided them in all sorts of conflicting views; many even have the chutzpah to accuse others of "blasphemy")!
It's little different than first graders on a playground with little idea of what they're talking about, doing their best to bully and dominate others by calling them, "stinkyheads!"

My hope is that those who are convinced of their TRUE interpretations(even if they believe they're 'Holy Spirit inspired') will someday deflate their egos enough to come down to the level of "normal people" again- in order that they may be assholes no longer.

Anonymous said...

Byker Bob, the music business is not about music but marketing simple music for maximum gain. I'm sure you already know this, Justin Bieber, Lady Gaga, 5 minute songs that are radio-friendly, it sucks! It is junkfood for your music consumption. The real healthy food is almost always locked out of that room, because it is to difficult to market it. Which is why I think Youtube has kicked down that door. From rediscovering music from my youth to new music which I have not heard before and old high school friends still plugging away at it.
Maybe I'm obsessed.
I love music.

Anonymous said...

May 18, 2016 at 11:36 PM

Maybe those ministers should prove themselves that they are doing god's work by starving themselves for 40 days while relying on god to sustain them. If they succeed, maybe the words that come out of their mouths might have some value.

Lyle said...

Amos was another in a long line of weirdos from the church.

Redfox712 said...

The following is the latest letter to Exit and Support Network's. What follows is a quotation.


Mark Nash Suspended:

May 19, 2016

I wanted to let you know that I heard about a month ago that Mark Nash, a minister at HQ, has been suspended. It was announced at services by Wayne Turgeon. It did not say his wife, just him. Wondered if you knew this or had heard anything? --Anonymous

Anonymous said...

Endless harping on minutiae is a deceitful ploy used by most Christian churches. Keeping people engrossed in meaningless trivia, blinds people to the knowledge explosion in the world. It gives people a warped map of reality, whereby trivia is the 'real world.' Most church members don't even realise that they are being fed baby food. I had two different ministers try to throw me out of the church after giving speeches based on self help books in spokesman club. They didn't want members to comprehend that there is such a thing as spiritual meat.
When both ministers tried to disfellowship me, they couldn't finish their sentences. It's as if their minds were being choked.