Dave Pack needs your retirement money, your IRA, your investments, the money from selling your home, your business, your vehicles, your personal property, and more. It is all
The book of Revelation…Daniel is unsealed at the time of the end. We actually started unsealing the book over a year before that, 13 months before that. So one of the things I always wondered about…Wait a minute now, Daniel 12:9 and 10 show the book is unsealed, immediately there’s the fire. How many times you heard me say that over and over…there appears to be no gap. Now I understand there is no gap. As a matter of fact, before we finished…because we’re not quite done, even yet…before we finished the unsealing of Daniel, God began to test us.When you announce this monster’s coming, we’re going to look like lunatics. Nobody believes that! Even the people who believe there’s an Antichrist at all. They’re going to mock and scorn, and it’s going to get hot. And as we throw fuel on the fire and the flames get bigger, you’re going to feel the heat before anybody else does. But the big flames come later, after we don’t feel any more heat at all because we escape. That’s the way it works. You can’t possibly announce this monster, at any powerful level, without taking heat! You know the term: You’re going to “take heat” for that. Well, it’s going to be literal heat in a way. Now, I know it’s figurative heat; it won’t feel like the temperature went up outside. So I would leave you to understand that.Turn over to Luke 12. Luke chapter 12…and we’ll pick it up in verse 32. Finally, I understand this, Luke 12:32: “Fear not little flock….” Now, Christ tells…speaks generally to all his servants…don’t be terrified and don’t be troubled, but here it’s phobeō—don’t fear little flock. How many times have you heard me…The ministers must have almost gotten bored, if you will, at how many times that…there’s something there. Is it just wars, rumors and commotions? Maybe. Maybe. But what else? Just actual fear: “…little flock…[it’s] your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom” and then three things are said, in context.Of all the things Christians are to do, it says, first, in two long verses actually: “…Sell that you have, and give alms…[Now, I’m going to be a little stronger about this.]…provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that fails not, where no thief approaches…[There’s a thief coming! How many thieves do we need to read about in the Bible? There aren’t that many!]…neither moth corrupt. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also” (vs. 33-34)……There are four things: Fear not; sell all; keep your loins girded, and your lights burning. And the “early birds” do this first. I’m going to show you that everyone who comes back into the flock, into the sanctuary, has got to do this as well, but in a different context. So you’ve got to do it, the question is: How hot do you want it to get?! How many phases of the fire do you want to go before you have to do it? Because you can’t be saved—what must I do to inherit eternal life? Matthew 19. You’ve got to do that. Some of you have already done it.
I just want to take a moment here, because we’ll just dwell on this. I normally don’t. I give it a “lick and a promise,” a sentence here, a sentence there, but I truly fear…I truly fear for those who don’t sell all that they have. You can’t play games! And now you know it isn’t, you can sort of play games—you’re going to be forced to make a decision—I will…or I will not…obey that command found all the way through the New Testament and sent out in articles. That’s the fuel for the fire.
You can begin to understand, if people begin to delay, God might, for a little while, hesitate because not enough fuel hit the fire, or maybe they’re not, for some other reasons, ready. And it may hesitate, not of what God decides, but on what we do, what we decide. So “if it hesitate” makes perfect sense. It depends on what we’re going to do. I could never get comfortable…What would God do to hesitate? Is the world not ready or something? What?
If we’re announcing it and we’ve been announcing it, and picking up speed, and we’re about to juice it—tomorrow—and I’m telling you today, which is a day before for you and six days later for others…We’re going to start to turn it up, to the ability that we can.
22 comments:
So members are to "sell all that they have.."
Are his members to live under a bridge? How are they going to feed themselves?
I've known several people consumed with avarice. In every case, there were other evil attitudes present, such as cruelty, malice, and murder towards others. That was my experience.
As if he actually speaks for God. Even if the Armstrong prophecy mold were remotely a possibility, God would not use such an egotistical or manipulative man as David Pack to be the overseer or gatekeeper. What's his report card? It's the size of his church as compared to the other splinters. It is his noticeability, not just as it compares to the negligible noticeability of the other splinters, but in absolute terms. The only reason it is going to get hot for his members is that they're going to have a difficult time living and eating after he has scammed them
out of their blessings, and discarded them as having no further use to him.
Time to break the hypnotic trance before it is too late. This has zero chance of proceding as Pack is laying out.
BB
Reminds me of a family in WCG that did that and more for that false apostle/false prophet HWA , they had their kids taken away from them by the state, they eventually got a divorce and sadly the man took his own life. That is the dangers of being in a cult.
And you thought three tithes are onerous.
It would be interesting to do a case study of their membership to determine attitudes towards the man and his edicts, and strategies people adopt to disobey and yet stay.
Lead by example, David Pack Rat. sell your house, and sleep under the stars as commanded by Christ, or sleep in a bed provided by friends or strangers. Most likely David Pack Rat is running out of $$$ and risks bank repo.
He sold his home on Pheasant Lane and then had the church build him a custom home on campus. This way he does not have to talk to ungodly neighbors and the rest of the unwashed masses. He admits he rarely leaves his campus now. All of the peons do his shopping and other activities in town.
David Pack is delusional and possibly manic depressive. He got on board the Fluery
nut train and now has become the lead engineer. I don't know how is anyone that is still in that crazy house can have a sound mind. To quote HWA if they are pleasing God their membership will increase. Well I guess Dave is losing people faster than he can swindle new members out of their money. New members that from what I hear don't stay long enough to join the ( help Dave Pack retirement fund ). Also I hear that the banks that lent him all that money for the Dave Pack memorial park are starting to get uneasy.
@BB
Even if the Armstrong prophecy mold were remotely a possibility, God would not use such an egotistical or manipulative man as David Pack to be the overseer or gatekeeper.
Why do you say this? Why do you presume to know the mind and character of God? Isn't it just as likely that the Gnostics were right? Why should we not assume that the God of this universe, the only God with whom we can now interact, is a petty, venal, spiteful, jealous narcissist who works through petty, venal, spiteful, jealous narcissistic human beings?
Our universe is not a pacifistic utopia. If death were abolished, our Earth's ecosystem would not survive for very long. Living things are nourished by the deaths of other living things. That's the way God arranged it, though he could have arranged it many other ways. Sounds to me like the evil Dave Pack may reflect the mind of God far more than some people here realize.
The Dave Pack Memorial Park....best description yet!!!
So when is Pack going to have members selling blood, or other body parts like kidneys to pay for his menagerie?
Ah! The "demiurge", 6:47. Already been all through that one about 10 years ago with Aggie/Velvet. There is nothing new under the sun.
BB
Any Armstrongist leader has a real problem. Armstrongism itself contains the seeds of his (they are all men) downfall. Armstrongism is predicated on law keeping. It is predicated on a Judaic viewpoint, that Israel suffered because it did not observe the Torah with suitable diligence. From this viewpoint, the solution is that the Messiah should come and introduce a new zeal for law keeping. But the Messiah came and he unexpectedly brought faith in himself and the resurrection to life. Armstrongists retain the superseded Judaic view.
Law keeping has definitive sociological effects. One is the introduction of a competitive spirit. People will want to believe that they can acquire more of God's
favor because they keep the law more effectively than someone else. I have seen this in operation within Armstrongists congregations. And it leads to a couple of serious problems for Armstrongist leaders.
First, the lay membership is perched on the edge of their chairs at Sabbath services hoping that their leader will be shot from the saddle. This makes them feel better about their own performance in the competition for glory. Second, the odds are good (but the goods are odd) that someone will rise up out of the congregation, challenge the incumbent leader and initiate an "apostasy" - the greatly feared loss of tithe base, for which all Armstrongist leaders pugnaciously compete. Some challenger who believes that he is more diligent or understanding in law keeping.
Because of this social dynamic, any Armstrongist leader must always recognize that it is only a matter of time. The gossip that flourishes inordinately in the Armstrongist communities is really news of the state of this competition. People are thrilled when someone in the race stumbles. RCOG members can be expected to look at such blogs as this one consistently as they sniff for blood in the water. Maybe, they can only hope, there will be an apostasy, a new smaller church with greater opportunities will form and they will be ordained into the ministry or get the deacon's role they always relished. Or they feel like they just moved ahead in the race because a fellow competitor was eliminated.
But then in their new found position, they must deal with this same social dynamic. And the cycle goes on and the splinter groups proliferate.
Besides being silly, the Pack approach is fundementally flawed. If a church member sold everything and gave it to the church then he/she would become a pauper, which --- due to lack of transport and stable living environment --- would probably mean no gainful employment for those still in their working years, which would result in greatly reduced tithes and offerings given to the church. Pack is essentially encouraging members to destroy their base, the foundation upon which is built their ability to contribute financially to the church. It is a totally short-sighted approach, not to mention shady and possibly even criminal, much like the Nigerian scam artists or the scumbags pretending to be IRS reps who call to try to instill some fear so that a victim's money can be accessed. All such efforts are despicable and deplorable. Despicable, deplorable Dave.
Wow. So sad for those that listen to him.
Why doesn't someone go postal on him? Why doesn't he sell his campus and his upside down office building? Why must it always be the members to go without?
The most likely reason this sorry SOB sold his home and moved on campus is that he damn well knows what he is doing is absolutely wrong. He fears for his life. Hasn't he lived long enough on the tithes of others all his adult life?
Yes Dave, it is going to get very hot. That heat you feel are the flames coming to get you.
Exactly true, K. As humans, we are able to help others through our strength, abundance, and surplus. The minute we give it all away is the minute at which we make ourselves part of the lowest common denominator, someone who requires help as opposed to having the capacity to help.
Here's the thing. As that applies to Armstrongism, if their version of prophecy were actually unfolding and kicking in, it would be logical to give all at the peak of the event horizon, just in time to get the job done, because after that point, one's ability to help would no longer matter. One problem with guessing or faking prophecy is that it causes people to waste and exhaust their strengths and abilities out of phase or sequence. Our superb analyst has been so totally wrong in his prophecies (they all seem to be) that if stuff really ever kicks in and happens (it won't), then the supporters of their "work" will have experienced premature climax, taking themselves out, and rendering themselves unable to participate at the critical moment.
Dave's problem is that he seems to think that his work is going to foment the events. But, he's got a really crappy track record in terms of correctly forecasting. Numerous failures, which he excuses as postponements. Something vital has clearly not been brought to the party! And, he's just a microcosm of the rest of Armsrongism in this, because they are all perpetuating what the old man started back in the '30s.
BB
Pack has on occasion voluntold his minister to receive pay cuts, then tell the Church they are of one heart and mind and are willing to take pay cuts, to disagree means your out of a job.
Meanwhile, those same ministers afraid to protest the pay cuts, are already struggling to take care of their families. They are endeared to this man. They fear to lose their Jobs as they have already given much up and if they disagree they fear their good character/Personality traits which are all they have left will be completely bashed to the entire church by Pack.
Pack has laid off huge numbers who sold houses and assets to move and work for the HQ. These people have nothing to go back to, not even family who they completely shrugged off thinking they'd work at HQ until the return of Christ and fix family issues later when their minds would be opened to the truth.
He personally bullies his ministers and criticizes them for having fine things, especially if he does not have them. He bashes them for having excess. When in reality anything that they get for themselves is not excess but a much-deserved treat considering the huge pay cuts.
These ministers are not motivated by love to take care of the flock, they are moved by fear of man to correct and keep in line the people.
If you so much as act like a Berean and at some point question his preachings even as a minister you will see the worst side of him. He occassionaly boasts to the entire church that all of the minister agree with dates he sets or phrophecies he unlocks. He never apologizes for error because to apologize means that he gives people the power to discredit him.
It's common sense that some whom he has robbed blind, have threatened him. He must be living in fear in his gated compound.
When Dave made public his ‘Common’ doctrine, I posted (somewhere) that the Wadsworth compound would be a commune. Of course I didn’t expect that to happen.
What if some of those who sold everything, gave everything, and are just getting by on a day by day existence, show up at HQ and tell Dave they have nothing and nowhere to go? Will he offer them anything? A room in his home, a guest house, a room in one of the buildings, or even a corner in the pole barn? Or tell them to hit the road, or they’ll be removed by security guards?
He's a predator, Hoss. Probably proud of how he made lesser people sacrifice.
BB
Don't you guys ever post any GOOD news on here? For THIS certainly isn't.
I think I only know of one couple who are, or maybe were, part of the Pack pack, and they are not critical thinkers. I doubt that their intellect would question the man. Hopefully their feelings would.
This is the early Jerusalem church situation (famine after they "had all things in common") in the making. Who will have the job of gathering offerings from other churches for them?
Gordon: You are right, this is NOT good news. There is NOTHING positive about Dave Pack and the Restored Church of God. He is an evil man who is going to destroy an untold number of lives in the next few years. The same will happen with Bob Thiel, James Malm, Viv Kubik, Gerald Weston and many other COG leaders. These narcissistic lying apostates have turned their backs on the guy they CLAIM to follow and chose to remain in the Church of Moses. As long as they do this there will never be any thing good to report about them.
Good news would be the top COG's feeding the hungry in their neighborhoods, sheltering the battered and destitute, feeding and caring for the sick, elderly, infirm and orphans. They cannot even treat their own members right, so how can we expect them to care for those around them. It would require them to close down their impotent colleges and universities, sell their auditoriums and fancy buildings and more. They won't.
If you look at the masthead for this blog it states the following:
"Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. Every crazy, weird and wacky quote is straight from the pens of Armstrongite leaders or members who think they possess some insight into God and the Bible. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!"
Until they start being Christians and doing what is right, we will continue to expose them for their perverse actions.
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