Dave Pack anticipates 2,000 families will soon be pounding on his door in order to join his superfantabulous church. Then he admits 12 weeks later most will leave. Once they find out how whacky his beliefs are and how much money they will need to fork over, they will flee for the exits.
You know, we’re coming up on 150 million items distributed and we’re about…I mean, we’re starting to take off again. You can imagine with our budget. And staggering numbers…I would anticipate within two, three, four months at the most, over 2,000 households are going to ask to come to church. An awful lot of them are going to be they stay 12 weeks or they don’t come at all, the vast majority. Low, single digits will be the only ones that come and then how many even stay? I understand all that. We’ve talked about that before, but the point is—you’ve got to understand—it’s going to be wild.
18 comments:
I'm surprised people request his literature 'cause you are only allowed a few free items but eventually you have to pay for any books/booklets and reprint articles that you order.
Translate Dave: Even when we fail we succeed.
So he knows that his projections are bullshit. The dumb sheep do not have access to the real stats. They must rely on Dave for them. So what stops Dave from saying x amount of people showed up and then quit because they won't be bleed dry? What church, what people?
Just make shit up and presto, you have a booming church! Only the local pastors will know for sure and they ain't going to tell. They love their paychecks more than honesty.
As Dave skillfully prepares his congregants to imagine that failure and defeat are a positive thing......
Thankfully, a few people still have brains and leave after they find out what RCG is really like. Unfortunately, for those still inside, they have succumb to Dave's brainwashing. It's too late for them, it's much harder to wise up after you have been beat down to a true RCG member's mentality.
I was in RCG once. This is the same thing he has always promised, yet failed to deliver. We had a hard time just keeping our congregation the same size, some came, some left, a continual cycle. Even those in RCG must admit that this is true. I guess this is how Dave stays in business. Get in new recruits, bleed them dry (thru common), then repeat after they leave!
Here it is again, an awful lot who are curious about his awful organization...
I would like to see the statistics on turnover in these organizations. I imagine the turnover rate among the Churches of God is higher than mainstream churches.
Dave and other minsters have learnt from Herb that truth is irrelevant. All that matters is marketing strategies such as spin, lies, false promises, brain washing via repetition, and more lies.
Hurry, hurry, closing down sale. Only a few short years before the tribulation. So buy your salvation by attending this church, submitting to the minister, and practicing common. It's a bargain. Don't miss out.
Fine print: no refunds on common are possible.
Humans often get to choose or change their environment. Once in that environment, they can play to it, or against it. Or, a curious mixture of each. They can be net contributors, or net takers. And that is often not by choice, because health, early decisions, bad marriages, and accidental children are just a few of the factors which determine that status. Also, the ingredients one starts with, like socio-economic class, education and how seriously one pursues it, and just plain dumb luck. The more informed control one is able to exercise, the greater the potential. The problem is, the stricter ACOGs remove and control as many of these decisions as they can, and it is not done in the best interests of the members.
How many times have we heard an ACOG minister counsel someone in this manner? "Look, you live in a neighborhood where your family is not safe, your car is a hazard, your wife's abscess teeth are ruining her kidneys! God does not intend for his people to live this way! You are the poor, so you should be receiving 3rd Tithe, not contributing it. Let's do this! Let's get you back on your feet! We've always claimed to have the keys of Peter, so what we're going to do is loose you tempoarily from the tithe laws. Take classes, make wise decisions, work hard, get into better financial condition, and we'll re-examine your tithing situation in about a year. In the meantime, if you can contribute occasional offerings from the heart, fine. But right now, you owe the IRS taxes, you have no car insurance, and frankly, a disaster could happen at any time! That's a simply horrible example which could offend the little ones, the potential members.
God's people are supposed to be living the abundant life"
Even if this is dicey from their legalistic perpective, as an alternative, do the cookie cutters of Spokemens' Club take up collections for needy brethren? I bet that one would go over just great! Giving what "should" go to HQ as offerings to really needy brethren! Can we even begin to imagine Dave Pack or Gerald Flurry starting a Lifenets type project?
BB
I used to use Dave's sermons to help me get to sleep and when I have insomnia, but I switched to Bob Thiel - no shouting.
Hurry, hurry, closing down sale - closing down will happen eventually. I'm so accustomed to hearing the COG clichés I feel embarrassed for the talking heads who utter them...
I work at RCG hq here in Wadsworth, and I can tell you that the Restored church has very few people joining. Extremely seldom do people join that have never heard of the teachings of HWA and if we gain new members it is someone from one of the other ACOG groups.
To Anonymous at 8:36 PM.
Why are you still there? Do you like working for someone who keeps telling untruths? Use your God given intellect and leave!!!!
The RCG is a revolving door. Just like McDonalds.
To Anonymous that works at RCG HQ:
I also used to work at HQ, but no longer attend RCG. Just curious since you are on this website, are you just looking for info, or are you also getting fed up with the nonsense at HQ? I am not sure if you will answer, however, just being on this site suggests that you must be at least thinking about it. Because we both know how the RCG feels about members actually looking at dissident websites. (You might loose your salvation!)
I also know about the dysfunction of HQ firsthand. Way too many things to list all of them, but also way too many to just discredit as human weakness. If the God of the universe was with this Church, things would certainly be better there.
Thank you to those former and/or current RCG HQ employees for your comments. A big part of why Dave Pack is still abusing people is the fact that it has been kept secret. Those still in RCG are afraid to say anything and those who leave just want to get away and be normal again. Please think about those that are left behind. You may be their only hope - the inspiration to make their break from this false apostle. To Anonymous, who said "Way too many things to list all of them" - please take the time to do so. People need to see the reality of what is going on there and ask themselves whether the love of God is working there, or is it another spirit? What fruits of the spirit do they see in the man they look to as their physical human leader?
God's true church would not have a dysfunctional leader who lies and uses people and their assets for his own personal plans and purposes. Sadly, those who remain are deceived and need all the help they can get if they will ever escape that madman!! Please brethren, speak out and help your brothers and sisters!!
If Dave Pack were to be frozen in time and history by dying tonight, he would have a miniscule legacy, and he knows it. No successor, nothing to really differentiate himself from countless others, and not a huge number of followers. He is not even particularly well-loved! This is why he keeps floating his pipe dream of everyone coming to him. It's the only way he gets validated, and it ain't going to happen.
It's not as if any of the other "leaders" will do any better. Little Stephen will inherit a diminishing PCG. UCG will gradually frag and they will also continue to loosen up the Armstrong influences in their approach. Probably more splintering will occur. COGaWA seems to be content to remain secretive and largely invisible. If ministerial abuse perpetuates in LCG, it's going to continue to die a gradual and quiet death. Who has even heard of David Hulme lately. The potpourri of ad takers in the Journal will continue in their sicknesses, a batch of rotting brie cheese, marginalized and always on the fringes. Bwahna Thiel's legacy will be preserved in Africa, a topic of great debate amongst 22nd century anthropologists. Most "leaders", far from being written up in a future version of "Acts", will be counted amongst small community or rural pastors, never even really noteworthy or noticed. They will be seen as minor heretics.
The people who are relying on Armstrongism to somehow make them "special" are in for a rude awakening, that is, unless they realize this now, and begin doing something truly profitable with their lives!
BB
Has everybody seen David Pack's five part series on "Does God Exist?" completely destroyed and debunked by AronRa (videos on YouTube)? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isV9hWXpNjc&list=PLXJ4dsU0oGMLFpoqxC5gLK4grEGqFt8oJ
BB
Are you a fan of Johnny Weismuller?
From an "Armstrongist" micro perspective your analysis is spot on.
From a macro perspective it cannot be more wrong.
For instance:
-in Africa millions of people are sabbatarians
-there will always be a market for disgruntled adventists toward smaller bodies
-if your prophecy of global warming is to occur, there will also be a market for "the end is nigh" preachers.
My point.
Armstrongism as a set of beliefs has been around since the inception of christianity, to the anabaptists, to the siege of munster, from the disenfranchised farmers in the alps battling larger corrupt catholic and protestant main bodies.
As long as christianity is around there will be a market for sabbatarian dissenters, there will be a market for dissenters from that particular subset and their will be business like types like Peter Waldo, Miller, HWA to invigorate a practical "back to the roots" approach to "intellectuallizid christianity."
The root of Armstrongism is the belief in the "linearity" of christian thought. The fact that there was a beginning and there will be an end. And the end at times seems nigh at times, then the messianic leader arises and flourishes.
nck
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