Posting Aron Ra's, or anyone with an appropriate background in the hard work and study of the sciences , rebuttal of Dave Pack's series on proving God with science is done so in the spirit of showing how , Dave , or any other Bible Literalist need be careful in straying into areas they have little studied nor can explain properly and accurately. Since we all know Dave in the entire context of the Church of God and all his other foolish theological notions, it is fitting to see him taken apart specifically by the only one yet to challenge Dave on this topic and in this publically and in the details.
Dave Pack has proven to be mistaken in just about every glorious topic he has taken upon himself to explore. He is grievously mistaken in his theology and his role in the world of religion and he is equally mistaken in his science used to prove it. It is my only hope in posting this that perhaps some COG teen, with their entire life ahead of them to choose their life path might hear just how mistaken many rabid literalists are their views , how stubbornly they can cling to them and how the rigors of a proper education can free one from a life where others do their thinking and study for them. Just ONE young adult , who learns critical thinking, applies it and comes out from following foolish shepherds such as Dave Pack would be well worth it.
If you listen to Dave's bluster and accusations against "science" you will hear excellent examples of what Aron also notes and that is how Dave projects his own characteristics on others. It occurs in those moments when you listen and say to yourself, "but that's what you do!" Since the eye that sees cannot see itself, the entire concept is lost on Dave Pack.
I do not post this or material like it to get you to give up your faith. I don't post to draw you away from God or to do the work of the Devil. Facts are facts and faith is faith which, to me , is what we often exhibit until the facts clarify issues. Some are having faith that the world will end, again, tomorrow and their idea of the rapture will take place. Come Sunday morning, the facts will overcome their faith . It is what happens over time when an open mind , critical thinking, more time and reality overtakes dogma. I post this because Dave Pack, and those like him are dangerous theologians. Their delusions , when considered to be real, hurt, misdirect and misinform people to their harm. I appreciate the time Aron Ra took, and it was substantial, to refute Dave Pack. He has said he'd address Bob Thiel's scientific theology should he ever do a similar series.
If you don't like Aron's hair length, clothes or look, just close your eyes and listen to the content. His grasp of the really big picture of science well done , evolution of all life and the deep time it takes to accomplish it and did actually happen is a tribute to the hard work it takes to understand and grow in the understanding of the world around us and our part in it.
Life is a journey of discovery. Discovery is not a big priority in the ministry of the Churches of God. While they promote growing in grace and knowledge, they seem to know little about Grace and growing in knowledge is actually threatening to the system. Trust and Obey might make a nice hymn, but it's a terrible message .
The church only gave lip service to growing in grace and knowledge. That members were given non stop spiritual milk, proves otherwise.
The complexity of the universe proves a designer. Non of these atheists can explain the existence of the laws of physics and chemistry. Or why the 35 fundamental constants are just right in order to sustain organic life.
Non even the popular big bang theory attempts to explain the source of the big bang. According to them, it just magically happened.
This is what psychologists call magic thinking.
"That members were given non stop spiritual milk, proves otherwise."
The implied assumption in your "proof" is:
-that weak are called......and that is to remain so.
-that a pupil cannot grow beyond the knowledge of the teacher
-that wcg teachers were experts in everything
I didn't know that. I hope a current affiliation is more helpful in that regard, even if that may be a secular one.
nck
“If you don't like Aron's hair length, clothes or look, just close your eyes and listen to the content. His grasp of the really big picture of science well done , evolution of all life and the deep time it takes to accomplish it and did actually happen is a tribute to the hard work it takes to understand and grow in the understanding of the world around us and our part in it.”--sinneDCDiehell
Hmm...interesting suggestion...close your eyes, cover your ears, and hold your nose. The problem is that inappropriate grooming issues are just the very small beginning of the slide into utter depravity. Aron Ra's grasp of THE REALLY BIG PICTURE is not so good.
The THEORY of EVILution has resulted in high school and college students screwing around until new sexually transmitted disease (STD) infections now occur in approximately 3 million teenagers each and every year in the United States. A medical paper reported that more than 20% of the adult population is infected with herpes. Wow! EVILution...the sophisticated “knowledge” that leads to crotch rot.
The THEORY of EVILution has resulted in more than a million abortions being committed every year in the United States. Since the U.S. Supreme Court's Roe v. Wade decision in 1973, American doctors have performed over 40 million abortions. Wow! EVILution...the sophisticated “knowledge” that makes murdering one's own helpless, defenceless, innocent, little children okay, especially when the “mother's” immoral lifestyle is at stake.
The THEORY of EVILution has resulted in people being proud of guys who stick their dinks up each other's butt holes. About 40 million people are living with gay-related immunodeficiency disease (GRID) [now called acquired immune deficiency syndrome (AIDS)] and over 20 million people have died. Wow! EVILution...the sophisticated “knowledge” that makes the most unnatural behavior out to be even better than what God had intended for people to do. EVILution...the sophisticated “knowledge” that makes God's laws out to be “abhorrent” and something to be banned as “hate speech.”
The THEORY of EVILution has resulted in people in workplaces lying, slandering, backstabbing, and rug-pulling while thinking that they are practising “survival of the fittest.” Wow! EVILution...the sophisticated “knowledge” that makes the most unfit perverts think that they are really, really clever.
The THEORY of EVILution has resulted in college professors who act like dirty old men. Wow! EVILution...the sophisticated “knowledge” that makes classrooms unsafe.
The THEORY of EVILution has had to keep changing as old ideas about how it happened have proven to be wrong. Wow! EVILution...the sophisticated “knowledge” that has to keep on changing to try to keep one step ahead of the facts, because some people really want to believe that EVILution must have happened somehow.
P.S.: The Bible's teachings about Satan, the demons, and false prophets would also perfectly explain David Pack's disgusting behavior.
Deism explains it all clearly. The Bible, Quran, Book of Mormon and all religions books are written by men.
Wow 10:12.
I didnt know that. That theory of evilution seems to have had a terrible effect on man.
I sure wish I lived on the heaven before Darwin was born and everything eas bliss.
Nck
Nck
Perhaps I didn't express myself clearly. My point is that the ministers deliberately feed spiritual milk rather than meat to the members. They do this to keep the members ignorant and hence easily controllable. Not wanting their members to mature is a abusive cult trait. One example of this is the Jehovah's Witnesses policy of praising young people from the pulpit for rejecting a college education.
10.12 AM
I can still remember when the infection rate for Herpes was one in eight in the 1980s.
And now it's one in five.
Aron Ra is a fast talking insult artist. If listen closely you won't hear any scientific facts, provable in the laboratory. It's just one assumption after another and stated as a fact.
Another insult artist, Ron Rickles had a name for Ra, "Hockey Puck".
Nck
It's intellectually dishonest to drag angels into this discussion. The reason being that we don't know enough about them. For instance, why can humans with their short lifespan qualify to rule over angels who are billions of years old. I suspect it has to do with humans having to struggle to reach adulthood. It's hard to say with our limited information.
You appear to be harrassing rather than making a contribution.
Anon 1012 and Evilution...
Some years ago, a high-profile YEC/Conspiracy theorist/tax evader showed what he considered correlation of teaching evolution in school and the rise of promiscuity. It wasn't actually a correlation, and even if so, correlation doesn't prove causation.
Aron Ra is spot on.
Anon 10:12 wrote "The THEORY of EVILution has resulted in high school and college students screwing around until new sexually transmitted disease (STD) infections now occur in approximately 3 million teenagers each and every year in the United States..."
Prove it using scientific methods. You can't of course. Your full of shit as a Christmas turkey!
.. the ministers deliberately ... keep the members ... easily controllable. Not wanting their members to mature is a abusive cult trait.
That's one reason why Western governments want mass immigration from low IQ nations.
On the other hand, some good leaders in the past had policies in place to raise the quality of the DNA of their people. Not surprisingly, they were extremely vilified and hated for that policy.
... why can humans with their short lifespan qualify to rule over angels who are billions of years old.
Well, Herbie had a logical answer to that. But who cares? None of the stuff in the bible is reliable anyway. I just don't get why so many of his followers and former followers never seem to have understood anything he ever taught.
By far the best education in evolution I ever got (whether it is true or not I cannot say, because I'm not a naturalist) was reading Darwin's books. If you want to understand evolution, or prove it or disprove it, read Darwin's books on it. DO NOT READ THE TRASH that editors have taken liberty to add to his books. That junk is lies and politics and politically correct intellectual fads. Just read the words of Darwin himself. Nothing more. You will learn a lot. You will learn how both his proponents and foes have misrepresented him and continue to do so today. I suspect that nothing written since then even comes close, whether by Ra or anyone else. You can get it free in the library, and probably also online.
Aw, Mr. Evilution. It's called the Halocene Extinction, an anthropogenic event which commenced when man first began to speak and record his thoughts, sometime long about 10,000 years BC. And, it's probably part of God's evolutionary process. Evolution is only evilution when you kick God out of it.
BB
3.20 PM
Sometimes it's very difficult to prove something using the scientific method. The problem that arise is finding a accurate control group. For instance, one cannot scientifically prove that passive cigarette smoke is harmful. It's stated as the gospel truth, but according to the book 'Against the Gods' the body of evidence from 5 studies over 20 years is inconclusive. But it's accepted as truth cause the general surgeon said so to a government committee. Argument from authority.
Sometimes anecdotal evidence and common sense is all that's available.
4.42PM
Herb taught the humans can change, but angels can't because they are spirit.
Which makes no sense since if angels can change to become demons, they can also change for the better. He didn't really know.
Anon wrote:
"The THEORY of EVILution has resulted in high school and college students screwing around..."
Or it may be just hormones.
Anon wrote:
"Non even the popular big bang theory attempts to explain the source of the big bang. According to them, it just magically happened."
Theists will have to say that God, the most complex and all-encompassing being you could imagine, just [magically] exists.
Why there should be this all-pervading Being in our reality, instead of just Nothing, would seem to be quite the lucky accident, yet theists are satisfied in just claiming "he just existed for all eternity" (magically, if you will).
12:00
Yes, it is a clarification of your statement.
2:27
No it is not harassment. It was a polite biting of the tongue through sarcasm since statistically your statement is 90% off.
For instance you are not comparing the abortion rates with other modern industrialized nations like the Plain Truth from I believe august 1990 did.
The USA is way off statistically, therefore implying other reasons than immmorality also.
The rest is wrong too....
For instance the statement on "angels". As if there was the Fall and Darwin. Even abberant churches teach there was at least 6000 years of history and human experience before Darwin. Perhaps even hundred thousands of years.
HWA somehow taught that IF an angel sinned his character would be "fixed" perpetually in a perverted way.
Perhaps telling of how he struggled with personal sins acquired in youth and plagueing him perpetually. Otherwise I cannot explain the "fixed" character thing in Demons as taught by HWA.
The Galatian Pantheon of the Celts or Romans is much more flexible on the character of those inhabitants of yonder side.
Nck
Actually, the US has practiced a multi-level policy, 4:37. We have even created a brain-drain in many other countries by attracting their brightest and best to advance our own science and technology. We also attracted the people needed to do a lot of the unskilled grunt work. They were needed just as much as were the elite. And the beauty of our system is that for the most part, we don't have a life-long caste system. People living in the USA have an opportunity for a better lifestyle, and upward mobility. And, yes, there are people who hate that element of our culture. We call those haters "ignorant".
BB
4:42, do you equate the word "understand" with the phrase "agree with"? One does not necessarily always equate with the other. As an example, I understand the basic principles of communism and a managed economy. I just do not agree that that is the best system for the survival and thriving of the human spirit. I believe we can also accurately make that same statement about Armstrongism.
BB
America is a lost cause. Low-IQ Mexicans are coming in droves and stealing jobs and land from the founding peoples.
In the USA only the rich have upward mobility. The rest have downward mobility. America has way more poverty than any industrialized nation.
The big bang raises just as many questions as it purports to answer. But all those questions are swept under the rug in a maze of intellectual complexity, academic intimidation, and ridicule.
If there was nothing before the big bang, then the theory is that nothing exploded. And I'm supposed to believe that?
Oh yeah! I see where YOU are coming from. Mexicans were the founders of the Southwest. Through the doctrine of Manifest Destiny, the land was purchased, warred over, and stolen through nebulous taxation schemes of which they had no prior knowledge.
Your ideas of the low IQ theory went out in the late '60s when guidance counsellors in the public schools were forced to stop pushing Chicano students towards careers involving manual labor, and to consider the fact that some of these students belonged in college and university.
Sorry, Bubba. I think you are just a racist, prejudiced asshole! The people who constantly complain about diversity are usually the ones who earnestly hope that it will fail. That is not a terribly objective view. Whatever the reward ends up being, heaven, the Kingdom, etc., rest assured that the diversity that God designed into humanity will be there!
BB
Care to give us a brief, university-quality dissertation? All that you have repeated is cliches. Could you move us past that?
Scientists are not known for sweeping things under the rug. Peer review is much too open a process to allow for that.
BB
Look at the guy. who in his normal mind would want to look like this? Dressed in a formal attire with this crazy haircut, hair falling down...? Let's face it, the guy looks like a character from a dark humor comedy. Look at his eyes, who looks more deranged, Charles Manson on the screen, or this guy in front of him. It tells you everything you need to know.
Leopold
I think Ra looks like Leopold I, emperor of the holy roman empire.
Or perhaps one of the french dudes making a profit in Louisiana before the "high iq" acquired the piece.
Nck
I still think Leopold is really Bugs Bunny. Leopold
James on September 22, 2017 at 3:20 PM said..
“Anon 10:12 wrote 'The THEORY of EVILution has resulted in high school and college students screwing around until new sexually transmitted disease (STD) infections now occur in approximately 3 million teenagers each and every year in the United States...'”
“Prove it using scientific methods. You can't of course. Your full of shit as a Christmas turkey!”
It sounds like you put some really strange stuff in your Christmas turkey, little Jimmy. You need to read HWA's booklet called The Plain Truth about Christmas.
Those who are “full of it” can cure the problem any time they want to just by going to the bathroom.
In contrast, high school and college kids barely out of diapers who fall for the supposedly sophisticated evilutionary lies, screw around, and get STDs, are not so easily cured. They might have to live with it for the rest of their lives. And their lives might even be shortened by the STDs. And their children's lives are often cut even shorter by the abortions that are done to cover up the screwing around.
While it used to be a youth trend, most of the people whom I know that currently have longer hair and beards grow these things because they are not happy with their appearance without them. Same way with people who always wear hats and/or sunglasses. Or, these days, with people who shave their heads. These are corrective measures which people adopt because they believe they improve their appearance. In many cases, it helps them in instilling more confidence and forging a personna.
If they are articulate, capable, and intelligent, when they begin speaking, they quickly get past the negatives people harbor in their minds based on appearance.
Try to picture Aron Ra with Dave Pack approved grooming. Anyone can easily see that he looks much better with his longer hair and beard.
Now, if you want to fault him for the negative showmanship that goes into "A Blasphemous Evening with Aron Ra", have at it!
BB
