Out favorite self-appointed false prophet is having another hissy-fit over the Painful Truth website calling him out for his lies and sophistry.
Of course, this is just a sure sign that Satan is on the march and is using all of us to persecuted God's one and only end time man. No other COG minister is doing a bigger work that this guy. No other man has held onto proper church governance and doctrines than this guy. No other COG is being persecuted like Not-arrested, but almost arrested, Elisha, Elijah, Amos, Joshua, Habbakuk, Mayan guru, and closet-Catholic Bob Thiel.
The persecution of Not-arrested, but almost-arrest Thiel is so intense that it was foretold in Scriptures:
But those who hate what we stand for do not care.
Jesus said:10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you (Matthew 5:10-12)
12 Now brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 13 And you will be hated by all men for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved…” (Mark 13:12-13).
3 And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me. 4 But these things I have told you, that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them. And these things I did not say to you at the beginning, because I was with you (John 16:3-4).
Notice also the following prophecy:
Bob Thiel is a liar. He is not being persecuted for righteousness sake, he is being mocked because he is a self-appointed liar. That is a fact that everyone knows, from Rod Meredith to Gaylon Bonjour, to the rest of the Churches of God. The man is a fool.1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! (2 Timothy 3:1-5)
Butt-hurt Bob continues with this:
Butt-hurt Bob was incensed over this posting:The Painful Truth site is falsely convicting me of sin that I am not guilty of. They will not accept the truth, but instead spew out lies.Do not believe them or others who put forth hate and falsehoods.
The Year Ahead. Bob Thiel and the ACOG’s.
One of the PT editors recently made this statement to me: “Bob Thiel is guilty of a shocking display of dishonesty and sophistry.” I confess to a similar sentiment, but as it is, Thiel, who is a peddler of Herbert Armstrong’s fictional and failed prophecies, is generally considered by the ACOG community as a huckster and poses little threat if he is constantly challenged and kept in check. He certainly does not display the honesty or character of Ian Boyne, who allowed people to challenge his thoughts and his writings.
Just for the record, the Painful Truth does not attack those who hold a religious belief. Rather, we wish to expose those who we consider to be false teachers who live at the expense of others. Keep in mind always, that evil prevails when good people do nothing.
With this short article, we want to share with you our view about Bob Thiel’s malignant beliefs and what damage we can expect in the coming year. We would not have to do so if Thiel allowed comments at his website where we could challenge him and refute his writings.I am quite sure Butt-hurt's Bob's followers in Africa are very sincere people who want to do what is right, at least most of them probably do. The problem lies in the FACT that Bob Thiel is a liar. God no more doubly blessed him through the hands of Galyon Bonjour than the nightmares of two different people in different parts of the world legitimized his self-appointed "ministry." Thiel is no more preaching "first century Christianity" than Dave Pack or Gerald Flurry are. They are all liars that are deceiving the brethren.
The question that the Painful Truth posed for Bob still remains:
Can he, will he acknowledge his own insularity and excesses, or will he continue down the path of smug self-congratulation and vanity, never passing up an opportunity to destroy, debauch, devalue, and dehumanize a wide assortment of innocent people?
22 comments:
We studied something in high school Biology class called "taxis" (tack-siss). I would say that above all things, Bob Thiel is overly sensitive to, and hyper-responsive to taxis. For as long as he's been a prophet, this condition has kept him from channelling prophecies
BB
If Bitter Bob, the Effeminate Elijah is truly God's prophet, why haven't more of his mockers been mauled by bears?
Bob has tried to make himself a COG leader. The fact is that we have known Deacons & Church Elders, who have more actual converted members with them (than his group).
He is spending more time defending himself (and his so-called office), rather than teaching the Truth). Give it a rest, Bob!
Bob's reaction to criticism does him no good. He claims we, the critics, "won't accept the truth". What truth? That he's a prophet? That his assumed status was verified by dreams? That only his biblical exegesis is correct? I imagine there are more aCOG members than non-COG critics who "won't accept the truth".
I couldn't find a YouTube of the clip, but Bob's retorts remind me of a scene in Seinfeld where a psychiatrist who critiqued George's "Jerry" script tells him that he must learn to accept criticism. George's reaction was to try to discredit the doctor, and then blame Jerry...
Bob- The Challenge is EASY! Simply tell us , down to the third decimal number of the stock market close for the end of 2018, or the final score of the Super Bowl, (along with who are the teams), and we will all become your followers!
Then do it again the next year, (after we are convinced) so that we can all make a boat load of money betting/investing on the predictions. AND YES... we will even send you 10% of the take!
When I got out of that rats nest known as the WCG, I had to deprogram myself of all that heretical teachings and then by pure chance I came across this website. Thank you Banned By HWA for making a bold move in revealing the false doctrines of the Armstrong cults.
Who is Bob Thiel and what makes him different from all the other Armgstronist "leader" types? I have never been able to figure out this blog's pre-occupation with Bob Thiel.
I would appreciate a measured response. Do not commit libel.
NEO,.
Thiel betrayed Meredith. Lost all credibility with most people.
9.44 AM
I have asked the same question previously. I didn't find the answers given satisfying.
NEO asked:
Who is Bob Thiel and what makes him different from all the other Armgstronist "leader" types? I have never been able to figure out this blog's pre-occupation with Bob Thiel.
Bob is another one of these self-appointed pecker heads that has allowed his ego to take over his ability to have a rational thought. I ran across him years ago online somehow, when he was in his other form, as "COGwriter". After a few exchanges and reading some of his mind-numbing drivel I dismissed him as a Catholic quack. It was only after finding Banned did I learn of his gig in the LCG and his starting of his own brand of HWA-ism.
Looks like Bob is experiencing the wrath of Ephesians 5:11...
The problem, for those who asked, is that he is no different. If he were like Ian Boyne or Wes White, I doubt that anyone would have anything negative to say.
BB
NEO -
Good question, as each blog tends to specialize or trend toward particular genres of critique and persons or groups of interest. For example, with Living Armstrongism I tend to think of RedFox's analyses of PCG literature and Mark Armstrong's recurring rant; The Painful Truth tends toward HWA/WCG and calls on its archive of source material.
My own interest in Thiel perhaps lies in his maverick one man band operation. As Byker Bob put it, we the COG critics are troubleshooters, and for a time, I thought that Bob Thiel's approach was "fixable". But in the last six months or so, I think Bob has gone the way of Dave Pack and other autocrats and crossed the line - beyond repair, and nothing much for scavengers to salvage.
Right, Hoss. The initial appeal of Armstrongism has unfortunately often attracted people whose lives are already out of balance in some way, and who already have an almost innate tendency to go off the deep end. And this is especially true amongst those who made their own conscious choice to join up independently of their families, and as adults. Fortunately, many who were raised in the church crave normalcy (whatever that is) and tend to become independent thinkers, most leaving after they realize what is going on.
What we see amongst the various flocks today is that the leaders are taking things even further from balance and reality than what we saw during the classic era of WCG. HWA used to autocratically control the collective group think of his church by restricting members (with his legendary temper when necessary) to his own weirdness, his personal views. Today, we see other leaders overwriting HWA's "schtick" with their own personalities and delusions of grandeur, which is why the ACOG scene has all become so cartoonish. Some of their followers see these leaders as merely being temporary substitutes for HWA, but there are also some who actually believe that God is revealing further or deeper truths to them. That, unfortunately, could take things into a Jonestown direction.
The COGaWA, as a group, seems to have learned to keep their mouths shut and to maintain a non-flamboyant profile. I'm betting that if they were more open, and we knew more about them, the leopard's stripes would still be upon them as well.
Each of the individual "leaders" critiqued and discussed on so-called dissident sites may have a slightly different flavor or approach, but when it gets right down to it, they are all proponents of a false and damaging philosophy, and there is nothing balanced about it. In that way, none are terribly different. It concerns me that anyone looking for deeply fulfilling answers to any of the questions facing humanity would think that any one of them "makes a lot of sense", or "speaks the truth". I guess that's just manifestation of the propensity towards special insider knowledge that supposedly nobody else has. Being able to single-source for that can be a major attraction for some, and it nearly always becomes a powerful modifier. Fortunately, time, deeper knowledge, and more collective experience, have been most unkind to Armstrongism's own brand or package of "gnosticism".
BB
Well said Hoss.
Yes, I am collecting and publishing more and more on the history of the wcg and the founder.
I have been contacted by book publishers, movie producers, etc. that need information. I give it to them with some limitations that allows for credit given to the due party's.
As to Thiel, he has a limited support base much like Cox who as far as I know, is a one man show.
Bob will be limited to the growth of energy expended. That energy is limited as to original content and new ideas will be needed that expound a human need in order to attract fresh blood.
Of course fresh content is a difficult task to accomplish. One misstep and you just trashed you credibility. HWA was very good at stealing and reforming old issues into new ones. The hate groups some years ago used the US/Brit in prophecy to develop their own brand of hate.
Yesterday evening I watched a two hour documentary on Waco on ABC. The Branch Davidians stem from the Millerite Movement and are "first cousins" to Armstrongists. The first 45 minutes delved into the charismatic David Koresh (Vernon Howell) and the incredible and sick hold he had on his followers. It also touched on his apocalyptic "theology".
I recommend that anyone who knows anything about Armstrongism should watch this documentary. It will probably end up on Youtube in the future. When listening to the analysis of Koresh I experienced an eerie feeling of deja vu. Koresh characterized himself as a persecuted prophet yet had a tyrannical grip on his followers - to the point that he was able to appropriate all the women as "wives" whether they were married or not. Yet he spewed end time prophecy all the time. He presented himself as a Messianic figure and preached that he had special knowledge about the meaning of the seven seals in Revelation.
Especially interesting was how delusional and devoted his Mother and various followers are to him, even now. It is a fascinating, but grisly, example of effective and persisting brain-washing. It is also profoundly interesting that this tracks so creepily close to Armstrongism in many respects and it all stems out of the Millerite Movement - as if the Movement and its offshoots are all gripped by the same persistent weaknesses.
From other sources, I know that Koresh believed that the gift of the Branch Davidians to the Christian Movement was the recognition and observation of the OT Holy Days. Where the Davidians differ from Armstrongism was in their willingness to protect their distinctive practices with weapons and violence. The Davidians "took up the sword" but I don't know of any Armstrongist sects that have done that.
There is much to think about in this documentary. There are Davidian behaviors that emerge that you will immediately recognize but in this context these behaviors will be dramatically and stunningly underscored. I wonder how long it will be before another David Koresh rises up and unites all the dispersed Armstrongists. The history of the Millerite Movement seems to predict this.
Well said NEO. I saw the same documentary the other day also.
Really, all it takes for another standoff is one man with a grudge, who is willing to take on someone he sees as a enemy authoritarian figure. Koresh saw the U.S. government as the beast power (which fits better than the EU model as the beast) and applied the bible to himself and the rest is history. Terry Ratzmann wasn't far behind in his thinking, but for him it was the LCG and all the pressure these fake-ass prophecies put onto him. He just snapped. What his true relationships were with the brethren may also have contributed to the mass killing. We can only speculate.
All these Christian denominations steal mind control techniques from each other. These techniques have been developed and passed down over hundreds of years. Herbs church was and still is awash in them. In the past hundred years, they have also hidden behind the skirts of political ideologies which claim ownership of people lives and property. This summarizes Armstrongism church culture.
A church members life and property belong to the ministers. In these groups you are a bitch of the minister. It's ugly but true.
Dr Tabor along with other former wcg religious expert offered help to the feds in the chess like negptiations with koresh and predicting his next move based on the scriptures koresh was quoting to the feds.
They got turned down effectively the feds made mistake after mistake ending in the predicted fire.
This of course set of the bi people in oklahoma to avenge this by blowing up the federal building in okc.
Tabor argues that there it might have been different if the government had accepted their millerite translation skills.
Nck
When the Branch Davidian standoff occurred, I and most of the people I knew were not yet on the internet. So, we were watching all of the events in Waco unfold on television or reading about them in the newspaper. Those events are now on the other side of a definitive line of demarcation, because the advent of the internet was in so many ways the time when the lights came on.
All I knew while the siege was ongoing, was that the Branch Davidians were very similar to the Worldwide Church of God, and as such, I had hoped that the Feds would suppress them rather quickly, accepting no nonsense, and using a dramatic show of force. My hopes were that this would send a definitive message to the WCG. It was surprising, and I actually felt robbed, when under orders from Koresh, those in the compound apparently set their own fires, it turned into a mass suicide event, and some of the general public then actually felt sorry for them.
That was then, and this is now. Much personal education has taken place in the intervening time, and because of the many internet discussions, I now see things quite differently. Even though I had been raised in a cult, I was still somewhat naive, and didn't fully understand their nature, and the insidious ways in which cultic leaders exert undue influence on their followers. To me, it had appeared that all of the members had voluntarily joined our cult, the WCG, and like the Zombies from Night of the Body Snatchers, lost themselves, helplessly and monolithically supporting the cult in every way. It appeared that these people were largely beyond help or redemption. I knew nothing of such phenomena as Stockholm Syndrome, or that in many cases, it is a temporary and reversible condition. Also, those of us who had earlier succeeded in breaking away or leaving had no clue at that time that the mothership would very soon be morphing, splintering and generally becoming emasculated.
The education I've received in the intervening time has provided great hope. Time and circumstance have actually accomplished what I had thought lessons from Waco would do to the WCG. Many members have realized the true nature of the Armstrong deception, have left the movement, and now lead free and productive lives. The message that was HWA's hook is no longer effective in bringing in new members, and the graying splinter groups have not been able to discover a contemporary replacement. There are also very good reasons to feel compassion for militant followers of charismatic but cruel cult leaders, because given a good dose of reality, many will come to their senses. The Zombie-like state does respond to further education, and is frequently reversible, although there can be lingering bizarre after effects. So long as people are alive, there is always hope.
BB
All very nice framing as if Koresh was member of wcg, while off shoot of adventism or as if he were randomly quoting scripture to the feds without a specicic plan and predictable frame. I suggest you read up on Tabors view of events for "an insiders view".
Nck
Dr. Tabor's view is actually old news. He had written an article for the Journal on this topic some time ago. It's noble that he would attempt to insert himself into this situation in an effort to spare lives, but I believe David Koresh had a martyr's complex and was hell-bent on taking as many of his followers along with him as possible. If the incident had ended with his surrender and arrest, we most likely wouldn't even remember his name. As it is, his name and the incident are part of history, although infamous type history.
Believe me, I know all manner of people, and different ones have shared a considerable number of conspiracy theories about Waco, about Ruby Ridge, and about the Murrah Building in Oklahoma. Most of the time, if you even mention one of their buzzword, you won't be able to shut them up for the next two hours. I have little tolerance for conspiratorialists. Part of what was used to ruin so many lives in Armstrongism was the various conspiracy theories presented as new truths by "the apostle".
BB
Consistent with your flawed reasoning that HWA did not believe what he taught.
Koresh believed his interpretation of the bible and quoted his intentions literally. A shame "the interpreters" were turned down by the (well meaning) "gung ho" people.
Actually that flawed reasoning fits the definition of a conspiracy theory. As if leaders always make things up instead of being the embodiment of their belief system.
I experienced hwa preaching for hours at age 90 in extreme heat, to people who had nothing to offer on a material level
OKC.
You never had a look at Tims trail and places to sleep and what these people who offered shelter believed in? A shame, continue to believe the lone wolf disgruntled service man scenario then. Thats at least 50% correct.
Nck
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