Saturday, February 17, 2018

Would you lie to protect your particular Church of God?


A comment was made on another thread about Rod McNair's recent take on "lying."

LCG is rich with irony. While Doug Winnail is in Africa, Rod McNair is taking over his weekly comments, and he used this platform this week to share some statistics:

61% of Elders agreed lying is morally wrong
54% of Baby Boomers agreed that lying is morally wrong
50% of Generation Xers agreed that lying is morally wrong
42% of Millennials agreed that lying is morally wrong
But only 34% of Generation Z (born between 1999 and 2015) could agree that lying is morally wrong


Rod presents this as a problem, but those close to him know that he believes in the "Rahab principle" that if you lie for the Church you are not morally culpable. If you are married and Rod convinces your spouse to lie about you, that is lying for the Church and is justified. If you, however, dare to tell the truth about Rod's lies, you are going against the Church and must be eliminated. If you lie to donors about how your tithes are being used, that's morally OK, but if a critic points out the truth that many of LCG's media statistics represent purchased views and do not represent real viewer interest, your truth is considered morally wrong.

Gerald Weston has inherited a big problem. The Emperor is wearing no clothes, and those outside of LCG can see this clearly. It's only the frightened or ambitious LCG members who keep trying to pretend that their home office is something other than a nest of vipers. This is why LCG is not growing. If you are using the Holy Spirit to discern Godly character, you won't want to expose yourself or your loved ones to LCG's moral decrepitude.
We have all seen over the years the lies of Dave Pack and Gerald FLurry go down in flaming glory.  We also witness it today in the lies of Bob Thiel as he attempts to constantly justify the existence of his personality cult. But not only is lying an issue with the leadership of the various COG's, it involves the members too.  On a Facebook page, people have been talking about how their families lied to school administrators, church hall rental people and others.

I remember being told to say all kinds of things to school teachers that were not exactly true when it came the church belief idiosyncrasies.
Most of my experience of this was in childhood, filling out school forms. We had to list our doctor in the event of an emergency, and of course we had none – so sometimes my parents would write in the name of Dr. Clint C. Zimmerman (an evangelist who had earned a living as a chiropractor before entering the ministry), even though they knew they were being asked for a medical doctor, and we had never ever ever consulted Zimmerman professionally (if contacted by school officials, he would have had no idea who we were, though he might have remembered my grandparents).
Even though Clint Zimmerman was no physician, I kind of see my parents' reasoning – he had, indeed, at one time worked in a related field; still, that's one heck of a stretch.
But my first year or two of grade school they actually filled in the name of Dr. Hermann Hoeh as our family doctor – yes, a professor of twisted history who earned his degree from an unaccredited Bible college based on a dissertation unspoiled by facts or logic! No doubt if I'd had an accident on campus he could have mailed a prayer cloth to the school nurse ...
Many times parents in Pasadena would use the campus chiropractor or registered nurses names as "official" doctors for the family.  Not only were these men/women not real doctors, they were questionable chiropractors considering the quacky things they practiced and encouraged their patients to do. All of the engaged in peddling quack homoeopathic medicines, just as Bob Thiel does.

Then, if something did go wrong with a child due to the church stance on doctors and medicine, the church conveniently weaseled its way out of any responsibility whatsoever.  They blamed the parents for not doing what should have thought to be right.  Then when the child died from appendicitis are some other illness, the ministers would uphold the child or family as pillars of faith for not using medical treatment.

Lying to the "gentile" unconverted public was like casting "pearls before swine" in the eyes of the church.  Never share church doctrines or its darker secrets with the "gentiles."  We were warned that if we did that then persecution could come upon the church.

Lying also extended to hall rentals for church services or other evenings.
Sometimes the church would rent a local school field and/or multi-purpose room for a church social, which involved signing a statement acknowledging alcohol was prohibited (often my dad was the responsible party who reserved the facility and signed those papers – ministers didn't like to go on record and sign official documents). Even at my young age, I can recall two of our ministers in the sixties, ...while instructing the deacons and servers to keep the wine they served with the potluck on the down-low .... never occurred to school officials a church group would intentionally violate the law.
I remember going to "night to be Much Observed" dinners in restaurants that did not serve alcohol or in meeting halls.  We were to keep the booze hidden and poured into paper cups so that the "gentiles" would think it was grape soda.

Herbert Armstrong was well qualified to lie to the members since advertising is mostly one big lie after another.  Just look at the scores of letters he sent out begging the membership for money all the while he would be on spending sprees at Harrod's and Sotheby's.

And who can forget the "let's flee to Petra" lie we all endure in the late 60's and early 70's.  Could there have been a more monstrous lie forced on the membership?  Oh wait, there were other lies just as bad, or worse: HWA was an apostle.  Church members would become God as God is now. That we need to "qualify" for salvation. Hitler was still alive and ready to slaughter Americans...on and on it went.

The church always defensively claimed it never lied to anyone, but "sins of omission" seemed to be OK.  The less you told the gentiles of the world the better.  Half-truths were the doctrine of the day, and sadly still are in the COG's.







39 comments:

Byker Bob said...

What really eats is that there are churches out there that actually do have their members’ backs. In certain cases, a note or call from your pastor carries the same weight as a note from another professional, such as your doctor. But, Armstrongism was just too lazy to become involved on that level, and this did tend to make others think of the COG as having secrets they didn’t want investigated, or as being a cult.

Support should be a two way street, and both sides should maintain a high standard of ethics. Such things as a “Rahab defense” should never even enter into the equation. Avoiding even the appearance of evil, being totally open, should avoid the need for any covering.

BB

Connie Schmidt said...

The ultimate paradox statement (once used in an old Star Trek episode)...

EVERYTHING I TELL YOU IS A LIE!

Byker Bob said...

One of the “modifier” aspects of my 19 years of involvement with Armstrongism involved the fact that up through third grade, I had been a well-adjusted child, with normal peer interactions, a good home life, and excellent family support. Upon my parents’ entry into the Radio Church of God, suddenly I was transformed into a misfit or pariah. The problem was that there was no trade-off. It was robbery, plain and simple. There were no benefits, no payoff, no return. Quality of life decreased radically in every measurable way. The sun went behind the clouds and remained there until I recaptured me, last two years of high school, by being original me to my friends and peers in the neighborhood and school, and this other person, the one that was forced on me, at home and at church. This was done as a defense mechanism, to survive intolerable circumstances that had been directly caused by Armstrongism. Living a disingenuous, dual lifestyle was damaging to character, but it also meant no longer talking about church, no longer defending church, and verbally disapproving of other forms of fanaticism.

Years later, my son had a teacher who had shared with me something very profound. She showed me her kindergarten class, with all the children, regardless of gender, ethnicity, religious backgrounds, etc. all playing and getting along. She told me that the reason she really loved her job was that she got to work with these students before they learned all of the bad or divisive concepts or games from their parents and relatives, such as the various prejudices. Her statement took me back to a time when I had been one of those innocents, when people were just people, and pretty much every kid could be your friend. This parent-teacher conversation had happened post-1975, and of course, I was then well into my agnostic stage. But, it once again underscored the magnitude of what Armstrongism had taken from myself and my siblings, without replacing those salubrious quantities with anything of any value, not even yielding those things which seemed to be the very lynchpins of the contract. I had become enlightened to those facts years prior to that conversation and had spent the years immediately preceding it in a personal struggle to attain normalcy, or at least equillibrium. Still, my son’s teacher’s wisdom helped greatly in validating the journey on which I had embarked.

The take-away? When something doesn’t seem right, ethical or moral, don’t “go along to get along”. Do not defend it. Correct it so that it won’t warp your conscience or damage your family. If necessary, prepare to vote with your feet. Ministers only have the power to abuse you, if you allow it. The submissives are the ones who in reality have all the power, and allow the dominants to wield it. You stop yielding, they lose their power over you. If enough people stop yielding, they lose their power completely. Don’t be bullied into defending them. Most of them would never bet their own collateral defending you.

BB

Hoss said...

"...in the world of advertising, there's no such thing as a lie. There's only the expedient exaggeration." Roger Thornhill in North By Northwest
"It's not a lie, if you believe it." George Costanza

Jewish scholars pondered over whether it's a lie to tell a woman she's beautiful...

Anonymous said...

Science also lies, which is sad, because if God is dead, science was our last hope.

"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." – Albert Einstein

This is also known as the "perception is reality" philosophy of the Albert Einstein, whose whole life was a lie, being based on blatant plagiarism, which is covered up with even bigger lies. It's an easy-to-prove conspiracy "theory". Perhaps the most comprehensive book on the subject is "Albert Einstein the Incorrigible Plagiarist". But I doubt any one here will admit such a book even exists. Instead, someone is likely to say I'm just making this up to get attention. If so, why would I remain anonymous?

DennisCDiehl said...

Lying by and for the Church and the Gospel is not new.

Bishop Eusebius, the official propagandist for Constantine, entitles the 32nd Chapter of his 12th Book of Evangelical Preparation:

"How it may be Lawful and Fitting to use Falsehood as a Medicine, and for the Benefit of those who Want to be Deceived."

Eusebius is notoriously the author of a great many falsehoods – but then he does warn us in his infamous history:

"We shall introduce into this history in general only those events which may be useful first to ourselves and afterwards to posterity."
– Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History, Vol. 8, chapter 2.

John Chrysostom, 5th century theologian and erstwhile bishop of Constantinople, is another:
"Do you see the advantage of deceit? ...

"For great is the value of deceit, provided it be not introduced with a mischievous intention. In fact action of this kind ought not to be called deceit, but rather a kind of good management, cleverness and skill, capable of finding out ways where resources fail, and making up for the defects of the mind ...

And often it is necessary to deceive, and to do the greatest benefits by means of this device, whereas he who has gone by a straight course has done great mischief to the person whom he has not deceived."
– Chrysostom, Treatise On The Priesthood, Book 1.

In a moment of shocking candour, the Manichean bishop (and opponent of Augustine) Faustus said:

Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556), the tireless zealot for papal authority – he was the founder of the Society of Jesus (the Jesuits) – even wrote:
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."

The Reformation may have swept away some abuses perpetrated by the priesthood but lying was not one of them. Martin Luther, in private correspondence, argued:

"What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake of the good and for the Christian church ... a lie out of necessity, a useful lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he would accept them."

– Martin Luther (Cited by his secretary, in a letter in Max Lenz, ed., Briefwechsel Landgraf Phillips des Grossmüthigen von Hessen mit Bucer, vol. I.)

Anonymous said...

BB
Unfortunately for a variety of reasons, the ministers are on a higher power level and can get away with bullying members. This is also the case in other religions. For instance, I've read that it's not unusual for people to commit suicide when thrown out of the Jehovah's Witnesses.
In Christ's day, people were afraid to acknowledge Christ for fear of being put out of the temple. Peoples social and religious life revolved around the temple.
This problem is not new. It's all too easy to be a armchair critic.

Anonymous said...

Do you tell the Nazis where the Jews are hiding, or do you lie?

Anonymous said...

One of Augustine's Manichean opponents said something about Ignatius Loyola?

Or did you copy and paste without reading what you pasted?

DennisCDiehl said...

Anonymous said...
One of Augustine's Manichean opponents said something about Ignatius Loyola?

Or did you copy and paste without reading what you pasted?

Sorry, edited some "Church deception" quotes in the file when posting or pasting as you say. The Faustus line got in but not the quote. Thanks for the catch.

Anonymous said...

6.57 PM
I read in a newspaper that E=mc*2 appeared in a Italian book before Einsteins theory of relativity. The article said that it's not known whether Einstein read the book. He might have read the equation and worked backwards to come up with his theory. These are the sort of things that God only knows.

Byker Bob said...

I agree with you, 7:09. But there are two things to remember. One is that this “common problem” as it existed in Armstrongism is what and where it affected all of us here. That’s why we discuss it. And, the second is that I spent many years of my life resisting authority, and making authority figures figuratively eat $h!+ on the occasions that they made arbitrary pronouncements. There should be balance, ie a time and place for authority. I learned as early as SEP in Tejas that everyone in the Radio Church of God saw having authority as being an empowering solution to many problems. And, it started with the kids. The kid who had been made an assistant monitor knew that that meant the other kids had to watch what they said to him. I decided at an early age that that type of authority was bogus. It was just a brownie button. Authority isn’t something you are given, it’s something that your experience and stature command. Most of my class mates at AC laughed when I told them I did not want to be a minister. The cliche was that students with that attitude were the ones who usually ended up being ordained. But, I was serious. Some of my classmates that did go into the field ended up being horrible abusers, whose names are now on the Hall of Shame page over at Painful Truth.

And, by the way, there is nothing wrong with being an armchair critic, so long as you know what you are talking about.

BB

nck said...

Dennis.

There are theories that Ignatius of Loyola was a descendant of jews who were forced to convert to Catholicism. For previous generations it was convert or move to Italy or North Africa. The converts sometimes in secret kept jewish customs. Although it seems Loyola became quite a devout catholic, some cases are made that manyu among the first Jesuits were actually genetic jews who even managed to get some of their philosophic system within what later became the Jesuit Order.

Now, my point is not to prove a case for either viewpoint. Athough I find the case for judaism into jesuitism through converted jews at least interesting to read.

I am just making the observation that at times the Morisco's (forced converted muslims) of Spain and the Jews of Spain who wanted to stay for a long time remained underground, until time watered their customs and later generations amalgamated among the catholic and protestant majority, whereas others kept their customs in Italy and North Africa.

A closer examination of Loyola is quite interesting in light of the fanatics they are made out to be. They have a tradition of learning and presenting ideas in ways that are satisfying to opposing factions. Great diplomats but an aura of double speak.

nck





Anonymous said...

I have years of experience dealing with Rod McNair's poor character.

He is as big a liar as Rod Meredith ever was.

He lies to cover his ass. He lies to bully. He lies to cover up his bullying. He lies to protect "the church" or other ministers. He's a grade-A liar.

He lies so much that he (like RCM) now believes his own BS.

Of all the corrupt, egotistical men I have ever encountered in the ACOGs, Rod McNair is by far the worst.

I can say a lot of unflattering things about RCM but at his core I think he truly thought he was serving God in some twisted way. Rod McNair serves only himself. Power and control over others gets him high and he will stop at nothing to maintain that authority.

Near_Earth_Object said...

Human organizations "manage news". Sometimes they are not even subtle about it like Big Brother Donald. His base nevertheless loves him.

Orwell satirized "alternative facts" by creating the Ministry of Truth in his novel 1984. Its mission was to re-write history to support current changes in political views. Historical events were revised, photographs of people deleted. This idea was to re-spin reality, much like Fox News. This is the pinnacle of lying wickedly. (Is lying wickedly redundant?)

Yet, there are many forms of lying. The idea of lying to the Nazis to protect hiding Jews, posted by someone, pushes us to the center of the dilemma. Would this be a moral lie? Do you tell the truth and watch the Jews die and feel happy with yourself?

I know that "facts" were extensively managed in the WCG. A defeating rejection of accreditation for AC was turned into "we are pleased to announce that we have been given another opportunity to seek accreditation next year." Very upbeat for the tithing brethren but not quite true.

Its case by case maybe.

Anonymous said...

OMG 6:57 PM!

You seem to be an anti-science extremist.

Are you also anti-gravity, to the extent that you will float to the Kingdom because you hold firmly to HWA's teachings?

Please, my friend.
Wiggle out of this one.

WIGGLE !!!

Anonymous said...

8:59AM, how can you say Rod McNair is "by far the worst" when he works alongside several other men who are equally bad or worse?

Rod McNair isn't responsible for changing LCG's entire emphasis over the last decade. Long-time members will recall that RCM used to say LCG was the "spear point" of the ACOGs because it alone spent more of its resources on the "first commission" than on "feeding the flock." In recent years, however, LCG has spent more on "feeding the flock" despite LCG accountants' desperate efforts to classify ordinary congregational and administrative functions as "preaching the gospel."

Yes, by RCM's own published definition, LCG has become a Laodicean church, but if you dare to say this to your minister you will be kicked out (further proof that LCG is proud of itself, another Laodicean trait).

When LCG brags about expanded outreach, does anyone dare to ask why the results of that outreach are becoming less and less? You can buy all the YouTube views and Facebook likes you want, and this may impress the old men in charge, but outsiders will recognize the tell-tale signs of empire-building and nest-feathering by ministers other than Rod McNair who want to gain favor with the leader and to ensure their comfortable status in the group.

Anonymous said...

@ 11:11

You are right. LCG headquarters if so full of men with horrible character that Rod McNair indeed has plenty of competition regarding who's the worst.

They all back bite, lie, bully, manipulate and, in general, act like they are infallible and to be obeyed mindlessly BUT... Rod McNair has a wickedness inside him that surpassed any man I have ever encountered. He's mean, hateful and angry.

I was once in a room with him being "counseled" and I had to bite my tongue to keep from saying "by the name of Jesus Christ I rebuke you". Every fiber of my being felt his evil. Not a nice person to say the least and yet, I predict that he will soon be the head of church administration.

It just goes to show you what attributes LCG values and rises to power.

Anonymous said...

Dave Pack and his RCG lie a lot also. Lie about statistics, slander brethren behind their backs, lie about income and expenses, lie about doctrine, lie about why they terminate employees, etc. But as long as it's for the good of the work, it is all acceptable.

Anonymous said...

@ 1:00 PM

Imagine how LCG (or any ACOG) would thrive and prosper if it became known for helping its members become more loving and Christlike. Christ's sheep hear His voice, and would flock to the care of a shepherd who helped his sheep grow and mature and flourish as Christians.

Instead, LCG HQ has a reputation for ruining people. Just look at some of the ministers who used to be in the field and came to HQ. Many who knew them will confirm that they became more political, more scheming, more dishonest, more cruel and generally less Christian after they had spent time at LCG HQ. One might even come to the conclusion that there is some demonic force operating not in Charlotte nursing homes, but in LCG HQ, which corrupts these men.

Your comment about rebuking Rod McNair reminds me of one more way in which LCG has departed from what WCG used to teach. HWA liked to point out that most demonic activity wasn't of the wild-eyed and crazy kind. No, the most insidious demons are the ones who appear like an angel of light.

Rod McNair wants us to look for demons in the dark, sad halls of nursing homes. He doesn't want us to consider that the demon-infested may appear wearing nice suits, with Brylcreem hair and pearly white teeth, offering pleasant words until you dare to question them.

RSK said...

Oh boy. Here come more LCG HQ "insiders", or at least the people they might have shaken hands with once when they were in the same line together in the Big Lots...

Anonymous said...

OMG 6:57 PM!

You seem to be an anti-science extremist.

Are you also anti-gravity, to the extent that you will float to the Kingdom because you hold firmly to HWA's teachings?


I have no idea why you think I hold to HWA's teachings. I do not. How in the world did you come up with that?

Exposing Einstein's lies is pro-science not anti-science. You seem to confuse the science establishment with science.

Gordon Feil said...

Lying is a like a freakin superpower that can be gotten just by choosing it. No wonder it's often chosen.

Hoss said...

While I don't remember being told to lie, were several times when a minister told us not to say something, like, Don't say we're a church [= say we're something else...]
At least one of HWA's urgent request for money letters did say to lie: he wanted those without enough cash to borrow money from a bank under false pretenses.

Byker Bob said...

Often, scientists who are contemporaries are performing similar work, and there is controversy over who actually gets the credit for discoveries. Back in high school during the ‘60s, our science teacher pointed this factor out to us, when he frequently stated that Joseph Priestly had discovered oxygen, and that Antoine Lavoiser had received the credit for it. Now, in reading the Wikipedia article on each of these scientists, it seems that both men, as well as Carl Wilhelm Scheele are give credit for this discovery.

In college, I learned that Edison was credited for many of Tesla’s discoveries and inventions.

The seeking of credit is part of human nature that permeates all human activity, whether it would involve science, theology, or any other field. Even the great Ferdinand Porsche was sued for “plagiarizing” many of the design elements of the 1936 Tatra as he created the people’s car (Volkswagen) for Hitler.

BB

Anonymous said...

Hey RSK 6:56 pm. Let's use the same criteria you ask of LCG "insiders" who post here. So, which big names in LCG do you personally know and have spent any time with - and not in a Big Lots's line - and therefore can "vouch" for the comments made about them here from yourself and others? Who ever they may be, I guarantee you I can top it. And because I can top it, I also guarantee that the crap that is written here about Meredith, McNair, Weston, Winnail(s), Ciesielka and others is completely made up by fake "insiders" or so-called LCG members at LCG HQ. All of the "news" and "inside information" being put out here is without any merit and complete garbage. Believe you me, Weston, Winnail, Ames and every other LCG minister routinely snicker and laugh at the ridiculous and outlandish "news" and "information" that is put out here and in other hate blogs. Thanks for the entertainment.

Anonymous said...

@ 1:29PM

You wrote: Believe you me, Weston, Winnail, Ames and every other LCG minister routinely snicker and laugh at the ridiculous and outlandish "news" and "information" that is put out here and in other hate blogs.

If this blog is turning people away from the Truth and from LCG, what kind of evil minister would "snicker" at it? Why would a shepherd of God's people laugh at a Satan-inspired pack of lies that is tempting people to choose the Lake of Fire? By your own testimony, every LCG minister must be an uncaring monster who laughs at lies as long as those lies don't harm his personal reputation, no matter what those lies may do to harm innocent babes in LCG.

Furthermore, do you realize that with your broad claim that "every" LCG minister feels as you do, and that "all" the news posted here is without merit, you are setting yourself up to be proved a liar? Do you remember how RCM bragged about unity in Global just months before the LCG split? Do you remember how HQ bragged about unity before Raymond McNair left, and before Don Haney left, and before Charles Bryce left? Do you remember that the "hate blogs" announced Dr. Germano's hiring back when at least one LCG minister "insider" posted his firm assurance that Germano had not been hired? Do you remember this blog breaking the news of John Robinson's defrocking and exile, while some "insiders" were still denying the news? Do you remember this blog's coverage of the Scarborough lawsuit, presenting facts that LCG denied until they came out in LCG's own depositions?

I feel sorry for you, 1:29 PM. If you had claimed instead that "nearly every" LCG minister snickers at this blog, and that "much" of the news is exaggerated or false, you might at least convince a few readers that you know what you are talking about. Instead, as a fearful cult member, you cannot admit to the public that some of your ministers RIGHT NOW are in disagreement with their leaders, and that some HQ ministers are involved in unpleasant shenanigans. All you can do, fearful of losing your cushy income, is tell lies.

Anonymous said...

Hey, 1:29, there is at least one poster here who personally picked up at Rod Meredith's home a cigarette butt left by David Meredith. That's how close to the top some of the leaks are.

Some of the deliberate falsehoods posted here seem to be spread by bitter ex-members who were fired by LCG for cause. Even those bitter ex-members, however, still have their contacts and sometimes post true stories. If LCG is so upset by their lies, why not file lawsuits for breach of contract? At least one of them signed a non-disclosure agreement in exchange for generous severance pay. These bitter liars would be ruined if they had to pay back their severance. Why doesn't LCG do this? Could it be that they are afraid of what these bitter ex-members would disclose, because they know there is truth mixed in with their lies?

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the entertainment.

"Entertainment"? Deceiving innocent people into believing lies is "entertainment"? If that is your idea of "entertainment" then you are as cruel, heartless and evil as Rod McNair. Maybe you are Rod McNair, enslaved to anger and fear at the prospect of being held accountable for your conduct?

Anonymous said...

Actually, it's not a sin to feel bitter. It's one of those protestant lies that are used as a club against dissidents.

RSK said...

Ooooooooh, a comprehension-deprived anonymous bootlicker to the haplessly small fish of LCG is soooo offended. Well, every time I tell the blog to expect you guys to show up, you never disappoint me. My prophecy record's probably better than any COG figure at this point...

But anyway, I'm sure you're just bursting to tell us about the LCG officeholder you made small talk with at the Walmart while they were trying to pick up a fresh supply of Extenze, right? Or how about the lucky LCG penpusher gal that you heard about that had to recommend Depends to one of the elderly ministurds over there? Totally riveting story that NO2HWA is just waiting to get from ya, I'm sure, if the National Enquirer doesn't beat down your door first to get such privileged information. Sooo superior to the rank and file LCG members at the Big Lots. Hey, if you were really a creepy type, maybe you retrieved those used Depends from a Charlotte trash can to show us, eh? Despite your hopes of getting promoted beyond hall setup crew, you're going to be pretty disappointed to hear that we're not THAT interested, sorry. But...

One of these days, one of you suckup types is going to accidentally post something that isn't the same old cookie-cutter routine we've gotten used to from the "Yet Another Posturing LCG Blowhard" brigade, but I doubt it. Sometimes we see comments from LCG folks saying how much they don't like the self-appointed asskissers of LCG, but don't know where they can go to practice their brand of Sabbatarianism otherwise. I rather suspect your behavior has sent quite a few to ask around. That probably makes NO2HWA more indebted to you than you'll ever know, promoting his blog as well as ya do.

Thanks for the entertainment, sucka!

Byker Bob said...

Bitter is kind of a processing mode. It’s temporary as the full impact of what someone has lost, or how they have been hurt dawns upon them. Then, the rebuilding procees begins, and the bitterness recedes.

BB

Stevereno said...

LCG ministers probably do routinely snicker and laugh every time they get tithe and offering money thinking, "These tithe slaves still fall for the things we tell them"

Anonymous said...

@ 1:29

Did you read the LCG/Scarborough depositions? They outline numerous lies told by Rod McNair, Rod Meredith and Charles Ogwyn. Right there in black and white. Makes it kind of hard to deny when it's in your face like that but you obviously prefer your vale of denial so please, continue whatever is working for you.

Anonymous said...

@ 3:11

Great comment! So right!

Why would a true minister of God laugh at people being turned away? Why would a true minister of God kick wayward members off the cliff instead of leaving the 99 to go after the 1? Why would true ministers of God use a sledge hammer instead of love for correction? Why would true ministers of God stand by and watch their peers lie? Why would a minister of God punish members for reading the Book of Enoch, having Bible studies or not going along with un-provable doctrinal "upgrades"? Why would a true minister of God not accept apologies and demonstrate loving forgiveness? Why would a true minister of God kick kids out of camp for passing a note? Why would a true minister of God not permit black teens to dance with white teens? Why would a true minister of God try to "counsel" a wife without her husband present?

The answer: a true minister of God would not.

LCG is so far off track that it's shameful.

Anonymous said...

@ 5:33 AM

Where can we read the LCG/Scarborough depositions? Do you have a link you can share?

Anonymous said...

To my knowledge the depositions were never posted on the internet. I read them as attachments to an email that Patrick and Elizabeth sent the LCG counsel of elders (with the exception of Doug Winnail's which was not included in the attachments).

The depositions and several other documents and letters were privately forwarded to me and several other people I know because people were so outraged at the gross misbehavior of LCG leadership and the outright lies of the ministry. It was also shocking to read how much effort these members put in to attempting to reconcile with LCG and how cruelly they were treated even after the accusation for which they were accused had been completely proven in error.

I have no idea why Doug Winnail was seemingly sheltered from this exposure other than to guess that he and Patrick were friends (although you'd never know it from Doug's permitting his 'friend' to be treated as he was). Perhaps there's another reason that I know nothing about.

Anonymous said...

11:00 AM, if you are telling the truth, you should be able to forward the depositions to NOHWA so they can be shared on this blog.

Byker Bob said...

I’d lie to protect Sarah Shahi!!!

BB