- Ambassador College would not make it past the 20th Century
- Ambassador College would be sold off into many small pieces
- Ambassador Auditorium would be sold to a Pentecostal, Charismatic church
- Ambassador Big Sandy would be sold off
- Ambassador Bricket Wood would be sold off
- The Hall of Administration in Pasadena would be demolished
- The Fine Arts Hall and the Science Hall would be demolished
- Condominiums would sit on the same spots Ambassador College once sat on
- The Worldwide Church of God would become Grace Communion International
- The Worldwide Church of God would shrink to insignificance by the early 21st Century
- Herbert Armstrong would die in 1986
- The World Tomorrow would NOT arrive in the 20th Century
- The Millennium would NOT start in the 20th Century
- There would be no World War III in the 20th Century
- The End would not happen in 3 to 5 years, 10 years, 20, 30, 40, or even 50 years.
- Petra is not the Place of Safety.
- Non-ordained ministers would try to start their own churches
- Ordained pastors would try to become apostles and evangelists
- None of Herbert Armstrong's Prophecies would come true
- Rod Meredith would not take over the Church
- Rod Meredith would start his own Church Group. (Well, maybe they'd believe this.)
- There would be competing Churches of God in 50 years
What would have happened to anyone if they traveled back in time and told anyone back in those days the real truth?
What would they have thought of the actual truth? Would they have believed it?
Or would they have kicked that person to the curb, saying he was a liar, a deceiver, possessed, and of the devil?
What does this say for the current state of affairs for those claiming to be God's Servants and the keeper of all truth today?
submitted by SHT
submitted by SHT
19 comments:
Who would have believed that both of the Armstrongs would be exposed for being severe sexual deviants in 1960?
Sorry, but the OP got some details wrong...
The End would not happen in 3 to 5 years, 10 years, 20
They couldn't yet point to 40 or 50 years, but by 1960 anyone with an old Plain Truth could see that HWA's mid-1930s end-time prophecies were both 20 years late and fundamentally incorrect.
Non-ordained ministers would try to start their own churches
This had already happened as early as the 1950s, when a couple of AC employees figured out that HWA was bogus and that they could start their own thing with their own ideas. If my memory is correct, they drifted into the "Sacred Names" camp.
There would be competing Churches of God in 50 years
Actually, the Laodicean Church was already predicted to emerge as an end-time competitor to the Philadelphian Church (WCG).
Who would have ever believed that Rod Meredith would hire pedophiles in BOTH of his churches?
Who would have ever believed that Gerald Waterhouse frequented gay bars?
Who would have ever believed that Kevin Dean, HWA's right-hand man, would be a pedophile?
Who would have ever believed that evangelists children in Pasadena were drug pushers?
Who would have ever believed a self-appointed liar would declare himself a prophet and con African members into false Christianity
Who would have ever believed that Pentecostals would be barking, pogoing and speaking in tongues in the House of God?
Who would have ever believed that an exorcism was performed on the Auditorium Lake and the building itself to cast our the demons of Armstrongism?
Who would ever believe that the Internet could have taken down the church as much as it has?
Who would ever believe that a Church of God leader is a convicted felon and STILL has followers?
Well, as I understand it the original Hall of Administration marker was preserved and made its way to the Glorious Campus in beautiful Wadsworth Ohio...
Seven months before his death, Hwa in a long article about the recent history of the Philadelphia era of God's Church which included a long recanting of the 1970's troubles, had this to say in his conclusion: "A final personal word. In a few days I will be 93 years of age. For some years now, there have been some, like vultures, waiting for me to die. They would like to come back and take over the leadership of the Church in my stead. I have been deeply concerned about this, but in no sense worried. This is the Church of God, not of any man. Jesus Christ is the living Head of this Church. I am not.
And Jesus Christ will never receive any of those who have gone out to draw a following after themselves to come back and lead God's Church into Satan's liberalism. It would be no longer God's church, even as Ambassador College was no longer God's college, and Christ had to start it all over again through me with one freshman class.
When I have, even rarely, mentioned my concern in this category, the response of members has always been the belief that God will keep me alive. I hope that He will, and I do try to take every care of my health and physical condition, but whether God keeps me alive 10 more years, or only 10 more minutes is entirely in God's hands. Brethren, put your faith in Christ and the living God and not in me. If Christ should remove me, He will direct the Advisory Council of Elders to select one of them to continue leading you until the coming of Jesus Christ in power and in glory. Pray that God will keep YOU in His Church until He replaces this evil world and brings the wonderful, peaceful and blessed Kingdom of God".
An interesting fear. After going into great detail about what was happening within the church because of the liberal element while he was away 300 days a year, he had a fear that someone would try to come back after his death to take over the church.
In a sort of premonition of what was to come, he said this concerning the findings of a church doctrinal committee: "1. Any marriage where the people are unconverted, or did not fully know what they were getting into, was not a valid marriage.
2. Polygamy was tacitly approved by God in Old Testament times, so multiple marriages or divorces in modern times might just be a form of polygamy by having wives sequentially rather than concurrently.
3. God divorced ancient Israel and then both parties were free to remarry.
4. The ministry should be able to loose marriages that God had joined.
These liberal wanted complete freedom in the Church for divorce and remarriage at will. Other questions raised by the liberals were complete freedom for any type marriage, some more and some less freedom from tithing, doing away with or modifying Church teachings on healing by direct prayer as in James 5:14 complete freedom for women in facial makeup, and even the approval of celebrating birthdays (never approved in the Bible) and even of voting in elections as part of the world".
Little did HWA know, but parts of that list and much more came out in the 90's contributing to changing the thinking of many even now 1/5th into the next century. Hopefully everyone understands it isn't all about one man or a facade of excellence or financial growth that defines a church. Hopefully those trapped in the convoluted mess of what has become the COGs understands it as well.
I mentally left the church in the early 1980s when it became clear to me that church culture was schoolyard bully morality with biblical window dressing. So I'm not surprised in hindsight that the church unraveled and keeps unraveling.
But I couldn't see the inevitable at the time because of the church brainwashing.
In Feb 1999, I had heard a sermon given in January 1999, and a small portion of the transcript of that sermon on God's Government Part 4 stated (and Dennis Diehl may identify with some of this):
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"...It mainly happened with the paid ministry. When I talk about the ministry: I’m talking about that paid ministry. Unfortunately, most of these people just came out there: they were seventeen, eighteen, nineteen years old. They came to Ambassador College. They really never worked a day in their life. They came to College. They got on the gravy train and they went out there. They actually thought. Now, in some of these earlier years, the men did have to work a little harder, but once we got into the seventies, eighties and nineties: it was a joke! These guys were paid. These guys were getting paychecks and they were doing nothing! They were doing nothing......Well, now, more and more of them are finding out how it is, because more and more of their little organizations, which are not God’s organizations! These so-called “churches of God” are not God’s Church. They’re just groups led by men. Now, they may be sincere, but they’re sincerely wrong, as well......As I said before, I think there were many more local elders that were converted, but if they were just apple-polishers out there, then they went right along with what was RULING OVER them, as well. So, there were a lot of those men who tried to RULE God’s people too, but all of the good ones will be here with us in the “end.” They have no choice......I predicted in 1996, and in 1997, in sermons that all of these other groups were going to break up, break up, break up and that’s what they’re doing. They’re not getting larger, brethren. They keep breaking up and then they’re smaller. Then they break up and they’re smaller. Then they have little fits over here and then they’re smaller......Why am I hitting the ministry, and all of this subject so hard? Why am I doing that?
It is to expose Satan’s government! It’s to expose Satan’s government that was sitting right within our Church and people don’t like that. They really don’t. They, all of these hirelings, all of these bad hirelings are still sitting out there doing it their own way. They really are. They’re all still saying: “Come, follow me! Come: follow me!”......You know; they can’t expose one another in the ministry! If they start to expose one another in the ministry, and they would really tell you the sins that are going on out there within the ministry: they can’t do that without exposing themselves and so they have a big problem......All of these little hirelings out there are vying for position so they have a paycheck!
That’s pathetic! It really is and that’s what came out of the so-called God’s Government: here in God’s Church! It was that counterfeit and they are still out there doing it......We’re starting to get into that more and more about how God was doing this and we saw the first fruits of Satan’s spirit within his government within the Church. We saw the envying, the strife, the politicking, and the self all within that government inside the Church and we all judged that. We all looked at it and we were afraid to say anything because, after all: “We don’t want somebody to think we’re in a bad attitude about it and we don’t want to talk bad about God’s Government.” Well, that’s how messed up our minds were and we all have to remember this
We saw in Romans: just to review very quickly! We saw in Romans 1, verses 29 through 30: that it’s about Satan’s fruits.
Romans 1:29 “Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,”
30 “Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,”
Those are his fruits mentioned there, and that’s his spirit and that’s what we saw within that past government..."
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John
The Church has not been harmed.
you are all looking for physical things...
Anonymous 5:51 PM said, "There would be competing Churches of God in 50 years
Actually, the Laodicean Church was already predicted to emerge as an end-time competitor to the Philadelphian Church (WCG). June 8, 2019 at 5:51 PM"
MY COMMENT - Actually, my recollection from the 1960s was that the Church taught the Laodicean Church would emerge when the Philadelphian Church was taken to a place of safety during the first week of January, 1972 - the end of the second 19 year time cycle and the German attack on America. Before then, Philadelphians and Laodiceans comingled together in one Worldwide Church of God until "one was taken and one was left" (50% of the Church).
Richard
Excellent list Gary, and it is the Plain Truth!
In follow-up to my last comment, you can add to your list "19 year time cycles starting in January, 1934 with the start of Herbert Armstrong's Radio Church of God broadcast on radio station KORE would become irrelevant".
Which brings me to a related question that perhaps one of the HWA wannabe clowns would care to answer. What was the prophetic significance of the first week of January, 2010 when another 19 year time cycle starting from 1934 was completed?
I won't hold my breathe for an answer, but did clown Dave Packatolla, clueless almost arrested fake Doctor from a mail order degree mill Bob Thiel or Ron "Tax Cheat" Weinland make note of this once very important event and teaching of Herbert W. Armstrong?
Richard
Rinse, wash, repeat for this century, especially groups like RCG.
indeed, anon 5:41am: f they had understood and believed, they should not have scoffed: "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Matthew 16:18
c f ben yochanan
What about the truth, how do we know for sure Herbert Armstrong wrote that? It does not sound as his usual writing style. It reads too charming. Too calm. Too matter of fact.
If you count from when Radio Church of God, renamed Worldwide Church of God, finally changed it's name once more to Grace Communion International in 2009, it only lasted 75 years. Less if you count when it officially reincarnated itself 14 years earlier into a model of what it had always previously railed against. That would be just 61 years.
The way things are going, will it last another 75 years from then before the entire movement of Armstrongism is nothing more than a footnote in history? Just a few house churches populated by the offspring of stalwart peons? If someone googled it in 2084, they'd find some Wikipedia entries and perhaps a few quirky websites, but anything more? It's sad when you think about anyone still doing the Armstrongist thing after that long. People who have been so thoroughly conned that they're still conned long after the con-artists who perpetrated it have either died or moved on.
The ship has been sinking financially ever since Herbert Armstrong's death, and the rats have been scattering as a result. Eventually the money will fall below a certain threshold, so that even the rats at the pinnacles of the scatterings can no longer live in the manner to which they've become accustomed anymore, and the Merediths and the Malms will all be forced to operate at the same level, if they choose to operate at all.
While the Malms are content to subsist on scraps, the old royalty will not be happy with that. When the monetary value of belief has been effectively exhausted, they'll throw in the towel. At that point, watch them admit by-and-by that it was all nothing more than a big pious act done for a payday, similar to how Loma already confessed to that.
Now that I consider it, I think 2084 is more than enough time for the whole thing to be under water. By then, GCI will have packed it in, along with all of her splinters. Anyone who can remember the glory days will be long gone.
Maybe it's more on target to figure the belief lasted for officially for 61 years until 1995, and figure another 61 years for it to wind all the way down. That would put the gates of hell at 2056. Just 37 years away.
Any way you slice it, Armstrongism's god sure has a short lifetime.
My advice to the ACOG leaders would be to invest heavily in the new marijuana stocks to fund their ministries and lifestyles. It’s not as if that would be more hypocritical than anything else from the history of the movement.
Even many people in mainstream Christianity are starting to see the dangers of viewing a church org. as divinely ordained instead of viewing their spirituality as being an intensely personal relationship with God apart from any institution created by men. Whenever an individual starts to believe that his church is being directed by God instead of men he loses his individual self and becomes part of a group think org. thus he becomes a religious slave.
My advice to the ACOG leaders would be to invest heavily in the new marijuana stocks to fund their ministries and lifestyles.
We need a new RCG: the Rasta Church of God. Participants follow God's admonition to make use of EVERY herb-bearing seed.
There would be such a thing as Internet and a few people who obviously have no money, sex, or life of any kind, would be running an irrelevant blog mocking HWA and his followers...
LOL 4:16! No jobs, No sex, and no life. That comment is great! I can assure you I have a job. I own my own business and do things that have been seen around the world on television. I am very active in a church and am in charge of a program for the entire Los Angeles basin for a program that covers the Bible, church history and putting faith into action in our world today. There are no complaints in the sex department either. And as for not having a life...I can assure you this blog is a minuscule part of it. It only takes a few minutes every day to find some new idiotic thing that some splinter group leader has said or done. It would be great if there was no need for this blog, but with well over 6.6 million hits and counting and with the endless supply of morons leading the various Church of God, there still is a need. So buckle up Buckwheat, it's going to be a bumpy ride!
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