Sunday, May 3, 2020

PCG: STOP COMPLAINING!!!!!!!!! You murmur against God when you complain about the ministry!



Joel Hilliker from the Philadelphia Church of God cannot stand people who complain, or at least that is what he wants to make you think you are doing. For anyone who dares to question, it is thrown back in their face that they are complainers. Nothing infuriates a Church of God leader more than to be questioned or have someone complain about them.

Lil'Joel writes:

Are you a complainer? If so, you have company.
Our predecessors, the ancient Israelites, were masters at murmuring. Remember, God was personally, directly guiding their lives. He sent Moses to liberate them from soul-crushing slavery. He wrought miraculous plagues, delivered freedom, parted the sea, destroyed the pursuing army, and led the way in a supernatural pillar of cloud by day and fire by night.
But when the water supply ran low after three days, what happened? (Exodus 15:24). And when they were wearied from their travel a few days later? And when they ran low on water again? And when they craved meat? (Exodus 16:2-3; 17:2-3). And when they were staging to enter the Promised Land itself? There, under the cloud of God’s presence, eating miraculous manna from heaven, even overlooking the Promised Land, “the people were as complainers” (Numbers 11:1; Companion Bible).
What was the reaction of the God who was giving them all these blessings? He told Moses, “How long shall I bear with this evil congregation, which murmur against me? I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel, which they murmur against me” (Numbers 14:27).
The spies who had scouted the Promised Land doubted God, slandered the land, and “made all the congregation to murmur against him” (verse 36). Their murmuring depressed the morale of the whole nation, and an entire generation missed the opportunity to enter the land God was presenting them. What a tragedy!
That same God is working in your life. Do you murmur against Him?
In order to keep its members under control, and to never question the ministry or Gerald himself, it is important to make sure they think they are murmuring against God when they dare complain.
In 1 Corinthians 10:10, New Testament Christians are warned, “Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.” Those Israelites died physically, but Christians are in danger of being destroyed by Satan, spiritually!
Christians have the responsibility to hold their leaders responsible when they become abusive and actively destroy members' lives, both spiritually and mentally.
Murmuring is often subtle and half-suppressed, but it is always muttered with discontent and hostility. And it is embarrassingly common.
It is common in the Church of God because of the many debased leaders it currently has destroying lives and stealing members money for their own grandiose schemes.
As in Old Testament Israel, living God’s way in the New Testament Church requires waiting, enduring, suffering and correction. You sometimes run low on resources. You sometimes miss the things you had to give up. You sometimes don’t know what lies ahead. And it is so tempting and so easy to quietly complain or ungratefully grumble.
No Church of God member EVER needs to suffer because of degenerate leadership. This is just a sick excuse that abusive ministers in the church scare their members with.
But God hears. And He considers that criticism not truly against the minister who instructed or corrected you, or that policy that inconvenienced you, but against Him! (Exodus 16:7-8). Realizing this should stop us in our tracks.
This is not true at all.  This thinking is a sick result of the "government" doctrine that some of the COG's use to control members.
God commands us, “Do all things without murmurings [complaining] and disputings [arguing]” (Philippians 2:14).
If a minister was actually doing what Jesus taught and practiced grace and mercy in all aspects of his or her ministry then there is seldom room for complaining.
Murmuring is a leaven: It spreads—within you and to others. It discourages families and congregations as readily as it did ancient Israel. It demoralizes and endangers your spiritual fellow soldiers.
In spiritual war, we need high morale. “If you really have the spirit God wants you to have, the high morale, you are going to win three battles where you would normally win one,” Gerald Flurry writes (How to Be an Overcomer).
The only spiritual war going on in the church right now is due to the abusive ministry and the sick doctrines and teachings they are imprisoning members with.
Replace the leaven of murmuring with the unleavened attitude of “[g]iving thanks always for all things (Ephesians 5:20). “[B]e content with what you have; for he has said, ‘I will never fail you nor forsake you’” (Hebrews 13:5; Revised Standard Version). Be like Paul, who said, “I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content” (Philippians 4:11).
So, let's get this straight.  Members are to rejoice and give thanks for the PCG forcing them to abandon family and friends. They need to give thanks for being bled financially dry to fund a private jet for the exclusive use of the Flurry family and to fund a money-draining concert series and for having to live lives in poverty. Let's all be content doing that.
Yes, sometimes we suffer. But this must drive us not away from God but closer to Him, His ministers and His Family, with an attitude not of complaining or accusation, but gratefulness and humble supplication. As with the Israelites, God will put us through trials, but He also will miraculously deliver us out of them all!
God is not producing the trials that COG embers are suffering under when they follow Flurry, Pack, Weinland, Theil, Malm, and many of the other despots.  These sick men are causing the trials, not God.
Don’t make a trial worse by succumbing to murmuring. When someone else with drooping morale murmurs to you, seek to energize that fellow soldier. “Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ” (Galatians 6:2); “[S]o labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive” (Acts 20:35). Respond with positivity toward God, His government and His Family.
The only thing members need to do is to encourage one another to LEAVE these sick men and their personality cult empires. If they truly love and bear each other burdens, they will walk together and walk out of these churches.
Shine the light of a godly attitude to the Church and to the world by focusing on the joy of living God’s way, by God’s law under God’s government. In John’s Gospel—The Love of God, Mr. Flurry writes, “[T]oday, we should shine with a certain glory. Our faces should shine with happiness! Isaiah 3:9 describes how, because of Israel’s sins, ‘The shew of their countenance doth witness against them ….’ Look around, and you see many unhappy people in this world—people in the bonds of sin. We in God’s Church should radiate something entirely different! I believe that, in a general way, we may be able to determine how much star quality and brightness we will have in the future by how much our face shines today in happiness and joy. God wants to make you happy. He has commanded that you be happy! And He has instructed us in exactly how to achieve that: ‘If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.’ Conducting your life God’s way makes you happy!”
Living God's way is living in grace, surrounded by justice, mercy, and love. Four things that none of these church leaders understands or practices.
Avoid murmuring, and keep morale high in spiritual Israel. Follow this command of God, and your future will be bright.
Church of God members, especially those in the  Philadelphia Church of God and Restored Church of God will only have a bright future once they leave. It will NEVER happen while remaining as a member.

32 comments:

Anonymous said...


I tend to agree that people should not merely murmer against the PCG. They should complain openly and loudly about all the evil in Gerald Flurry's satanic filth cult.

Anonymous said...


The PCG is full of nothing but injustice. That is the true nature of Satan's false churches led by Satan's false prophets. Filthy old sex maniacs, sex perverts, and predators are allowed to say and do whatever they want in the PCG. They even get to complain bitterly to the PCG ministry when their intended victims do not go along with their selfish and immoral agendas. The godless and wicked PCG ministers then kick out whoever the old sex maniacs, sex perverts, and predators want them to. Anyone who does not like all the outrageous evil and injustice that goes on continually in the PCG is considered to be murmuring and complaining.

Byker Bob said...

Boy! You'd think I had read this before composing my comments re communism of the ACOGs in another thread below, but I first saw it right after clicking on the "Publish Your Comment" button. Hilliker's diatribe perfectly illustrates my thesis.

BB

Anonymous said...

Great headline! The mental image you create of "mummering" against God is too good to pass up. I always suspected God hates mimes!

Anonymous said...

GRF: Complains about a spot of chrome insufficiently well polished on his Gulfstream. NOT MURMURING.

PCG parent: Complains about a PCG elder touching her son's genitals inappropriately. MURMURING.

Got it?

DennisCDiehl said...

Hilliker said:
"Are you a complainer? If so, you have company. Our predecessors, the ancient Israelites, were masters at murmuring. Remember, God was personally, directly guiding their lives....But when the water supply ran low after three days, what happened? Exodus 15:24 And when they were wearied from their travel a few days later? And when they ran low on water again? "

References:

Exodus 15:23-24 23
When they came to Marah, they could not drink its water because it was bitter. (That is why the place is called Marah.) 24So the people grumbled against Moses, saying, "What are we to drink?"

Exodus 17:2-3 2So they quarreled with Moses and said, "Give us water to drink." Moses replied, "Why do you quarrel with me? Why do you put the LORD to the test?" 3But the people were thirsty for water there, and they grumbled against Moses. They said, "Why did you bring us up out of Egypt to make us and our children and livestock die of thirst?"

Individuals vary widely in how much water they need. Without getting dehydrated, the people in the study took in as little as 1.2 liters of water a day and as much as 7.7 liters a day. That's about 3 coffee cups a day to 16 coffee cups a day under NORMAL conditions. In the waste howling desert of the Negev, lots more when on the move. This does not include all the cattle the Israelites were supposed to have in the desert with them, which would require tons of water and feed per day to say the least.

Estimates of how much basic water this mythical crowd would require each day is set at about 11 MILLION gallons a day. That is a swimming pool 2937 feet long. 550 feet wide and 110 feet deep, EVERY DAY.

Estimates of the 600,000 men, plus women and children and many cattle vary between 2.4 and 3 million people. All of these were supposed to have left Egypt "the selfsame night" and crossed the Red Sea in one night also which is ridiculous .

But to "complain", dare I say "make a simple emergency observation as to their survival" would be quite normal. It is the reaction of the character Moses that is insane. Bible stories are like that. I imagine Moses, in this unlikely tale, had plenty of personal water along with Aron. He seemed hydrated enough to rant and rage against them for putting "God to the test."

QUORA notes: How long with out water in the desert?

"A couple of days. In extreme heat the body will dehydrate in little time, especially under any physical exertion. I lived in the Sahara Desert for four years, and death comes very quickly to those unwise souls who don't have a couple of gallons of water a day to drink if they're stranded. Salt is a very important electrolyte to have in the desert. Even if you have adequate water, drinking a lot of it will cause a serious electrolyte dilution/imbalance, which in itself can be very dangerous and life threatening, and at the very least exacerbate your situation."

So I vote for the 3 million Israelites being right to notice they, their wives, children, parents and grandparents and "many cattle" were going to die quickly without water in the waste howling wilderness.

The Northern route along the Med would have only taken 9 days. Check a map next time Moses.

Hoss said...

PCG, Murmuring, and $1.1M

All I can say is, When you rob Peter to pay Paul, you don't hear Paul complaining!

Tonto said...

Smart organizations actually want to hear the negative feedback from dissatisfied customers, so as to potentially improve their products.

Unfortunately , anyone in a COG who dares to say anything less than "everything is wonderful" or "best feast ever" etc. , is branded as having a "bad attitude" or "dissident" or "unconverted" or worse.

It reminds me of the old Twilight Zone episode that starred a young Billy Mumy , called "Its a Good Life", where a 6 year old has the powers of a God, and he mentally can turn you into a corn field, a jack in the box, or set you on fire if you dare "think bad thoughts" against him. Everyone constantly praises the kid and caters to his every desire.

7 minute Highlights of the Episode
https://youtu.be/KBqTbiFGkmo

the Ocelot said...

He should have turned Dr Smith into a. PCG member OH!!!The pain the pain

Anonymous said...

Christ complained about the Pharisees, and cities not repenting, so bellyaching would be a better word to use than complaining.

A bully trait is to wrong a person, then try to suppress the negative consequences, including the victim seeking justice. Like king David murdering Uriah the Hittite in order to cover up getting his wife pregnant. The ministers complaint of members 'murmuring' falls into this category.

Anonymous said...


Murmuring in the PCG is not the problem. The problem is all the gossiping, lying and slandering. The local leaders do much of it.

Anonymous said...

pcg leaders think they are god

regardless of what they say, in practice, you can't defend yourself from their false accusations, that is considered talking back to god, and you will be excommunicated for it

they are moronic tyrants

self-righteousness makes them stupid

Anonymous said...

"When the righteous flourish, the people rejoice, but when the wicked rule, the people groan." Proverbs 29:2 It's interesting that cog leaders never apply this verse when groaning or complaining comes to their attention. Instead they jump to things like the rebellion of Kora, or murmuring Israelites, equating themselves of course with Moses. But, who among these men can claim direct communication with God through a burning bush, or who has led millions of people through a sea to dry land under God's direct instructions? They covet the power and position they think Moses had over others, without exhibiting any of the meekness or faith that Moses displayed.

We are told in scripture that we will know true servants of God by their fruits. Galatians 5 lists some of these fruits... Love, joy, peace, long suffering, goodness, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness, self control. If those who claim to be spiritual leaders are not modeling these things, they aren't God's servants. They are simply men with large egos on some sort of authoritarian power trip.

We in the cogs have reduced our notions of godly leadership to the promotion of a certain set of doctrines, the rigid adherence to certain extra biblical traditions, or the preaching of whatever prophetic speculation that might appeal to our itching ears. After all, Jesus has been going to return in the next three to five years for the last fifty years or more. We seem to forget though that those who make the best leaders are those who lead by example, not just words. In the end it may not be the guy who can master giving a sermonette with exactly three scriptures that lasts no longer than twelve minutes. It might not be the one who is always perfectly dressed in suit and matching tie. It won't even be the one who gives the most interesting prophetic theory that has come out since last week. Instead, we should look for those who are quietly going about the business of caring for and serving others in their sphere of influence. Are they kind? How about patient? Are they truly interested in sharing the gospel in whatever way they can, or are they just interested in promoting and defending their own corporate church group, and maintaining their own control and power? By their fruits you will know them... What are the fruits of your leaders?

Concerned Sister

Stevoreno said...

I haven't read Flurry's writing "How To Be An Overcomer" but I'm wondering what page or chapter does he talk about all the obstacles he overcame by using millions of dollars in tithes. He did overcome having to share planes with other commuters by getting his own personal jet.

Retired Prof said...

Concerned Sister, your comment here, like your others we read, reveals what may be the reason COG ministers do not want a woman such as you speaking in church. You teach better lessons than they do and do it better.

Anonymous said...

Concerned Sister, while I agree with your post there are a couple things that I'd like to point out. First the fruits of the spirit can be faked for a time. If one doesn't know the person well, it might take quite a while to learn that they've been faking.

Second, sometimes one doesn't have to be all that quiet. Fake people often have to be dealt with vocally and loudly.

Jesus often cried aloud, and often told it how it was, whether others liked it or not.

To the blog softies, no I'm not Jesus. But I'm following in his footsteps, yes even with a foul mouth. I bet you'd be amazed at how he spoke. Not with politically correct language I'm sure.



km

DennisCDiehl said...

Nicely spoken Concern Sister. WCG and the splinters always were and are stocked up a bit short on "Helpers of their joy"

Anonymous said...

it's the old "if you resist me you resist God" argument...


well sport, last time I checked, you weren't God.

Anonymous said...

Concerned Sister
Moses spent all day sitting in judgment in legal disputes (before his father in law adviced him to delegate), giving just verdicts. It wasn't the ACOGs 'an accusation is a judgment' thingy. Due process was present. Moses did not, like today's ministers, follow people around like a dog, being their resident critic or judge.
Mose's example condemns today's ministers.

Anonymous said...

Hilliker is a closed-minded shallow ignorant airhead loud-mouth.

Anonymous said...

Women are easily manipulated by emotion which is why the media play them like a fiddle and get them voting for brainless rubbish. That's why the bible forbids feminism and women speaking in church. Even primitive people were smarter than us today.

Anonymous said...

"After all, Jesus has been going to return in the next three to five years for the last fifty years or more."

Some people think the bible is the wisest book ever written. But they have not read any other other ancient books to compare it with.

The bible is dumb. They had to change the time of the return of Jesus even way back then. Jesus said some of those standing there would not taste death until they see the son of man return. That didn't happen so it had to be re-interpreted. It became figurative. Might as well make the second coming figurative too. Some have. You can make anything figurative. You can re-interpret anything.

Anonymous said...

km, I'm no softie as I served in the military in the late 1990s, so rough language does not bother me. The difference with you is that you have to be nasty to people and call them names if they don't agree with you, even if it is innocuous as "mutt". It's still a slam against the person. It doesn't matter if you are an old man, or are the most intelligent man we have ever seen or have a daughter working on the coronavirus. Why does it bother you that people disagree with you and then you end up calling them names? I have had lots of disagreements with people but can talk in a normal manner and be respectful. Why can't you?

Anonymous said...

Could there be mental problems? Unconverted? Pattern seems chaotic. Good post, 8:43.

Anonymous said...

LOL!
But ... The opposite is true as well: men are easily manipulated by testosterone (read: thinking with their smaller brain) which is why the media play them like a fiddle and get them voting for brainless rubbish .. Think: sex in advertising, BIG cars (stand for BIG ....), POWER tools, etc.

So ... Why again should men be speaking in church?

Anonymous said...

I have heard this argument against murmuring in the old WCG. And it does underline a significant problem in church governance. How does one distinguish between church leaders who want to escape accountability by condemning justified murmuring and those who are genuinely trying to preserve the stability of the church by condemning gratuitous murmuring?

The NT seems to be silent about formal solutions to internal issues like this. It clearly states that there are False Prophets, for instance, but it does not tell how church governance should be invoked to deal with such condemnable and dangerous leaders. HWA used to stand solidly by "top-down" governance. And if there is corruption at the top, there would then be no accountability for the top. But the Bible does not seem to anywhere endorse a grassroots approach. Paul does say that if Christians are to judge angels then Christians should be able to take care of business. But is there ever a place for that in a strictly top-down organization? I think not. Woody Allen said that any government works if it is based on love. But absolutism, no matter how benign in the beginning, seems to always morph into tyranny.

This is not only a problem for the WCG but other church organizations as well. It is just that the WCG has always seemed much more avid about recruiting and weaponizing passages of the Bible to defend all the ways of leaders - as if leaders were somehow perfect. HWA used to say that he was in the "hot seat" because he was directly corrected by Christ. Does Christ really correct cult leaders? Might Christ rather ignore them?

All I can really say is the obvious. If you are in a cult with a tyrannical leader who oppresses free discourse, it sucks to be you.

Anonymous said...

Anon 5-4 @8:04
It’s brainless idiots like you that keep supporting the notion that men are superior to women. My wife was a successful business women till she retired. My daughter is a successful business owner today. I have a granddaughter that will be graduating from college next December. She has maintained an almost straight A average in grade school, high school and now college. I think she got her first B last year in statistical analysis. She is majoring in business. Your put down of women shows how stupid you are.
Jim-AZ

Byker Bob said...

The problem is not gender, it's stupid people. Back when women were deprived of educations, and even the brilliant ones were required to be stay at homes, men generally did keep up more on current events, could reason between two sides or alternatives, and do a better job of leading. This was remedied back in the late '60s or early '70s.

Even in the neanderthal eras immediately preceding that, if a woman had a brilliant husband and possessed a high IQ herself, the knowledge permeated the family through osmosis to the wife and kids.

Misogynists and chauvinists will always fund a way to put intelligent women with superior leadership abilities down. There will always be willful ignorance as long as the human race exists. There are currently thousands of women who have served in the military and on police forces across the country. And others who have graduated with honors from top colleges and universities. It is ludicrous to believe that the couch potato guy with the 105 IQ should have greater status than these women just because of his plumbing. But, chauvinists and other ignorant people can't figureout how to deal with them, so continue to perpetuate stereotypes which have been passe for decades.

BB

Anonymous said...

Well written 8:43.

Anonymous said...

I disagree with the idea that the Bible doesn't endorse what would be considered a grassroots approach. When Jesus was choosing followers, He didn't exactly go to the temple and choose from among the established religious hierarchy of His day. Instead, He traveled the countryside choosing fishermen, tax collectors, and even women who had been possessed by evil spirits, those considered unclean, etc. Some of these women became His travel companions, along with the twelve. Luke 8:1-3 In one instance He used the testimony of a woman with a less than desirable reputation to witness to her entire town. John 4:4-42 We have multiple accounts of Jesus using unexpected people to promote His message to others. We are told that God purposely chooses the weak and despised, so that no one may boast in His presence. 1Corinthians 1:27-29

Our idea of what religious government ought to look like has been completely distorted to support a system that God did not create. Scriptures have been cherry picked by those in leadership positions to justify that system while other passages that would provide more of a checks and balance approach have been completely ignored, diminished or explained away, and in some cases even mistranslated. We have been taught to look to a "top down" system, but we have forgotten who is truly supposed to be at the top, and it isn't any human being on this earth. While God did provide gifts of teaching and leadership among His people, He did not endorse tyranny, mistreatment, or absolute rule of anyone within His body, and in multiple places warned His disciples against that approach. We are all brethren and are to treat each other as such.

Concerned Sister

Anonymous said...

Flurry & the PCG are hypersensitive to any questioning of their authority or criticism & will absolutely tolerate no dissent of independent thought from the lay brethren. When the tv station Fox 25 did a story examining Flurry and the PCG he went bonkers. I guess they don't believe in the way of the Bereans to prove all things & to see if those who proclaim themselves as prophets or apostles are actually legitimate or false.

Anonymous said...

Typed words are cheap talk Concerned Sister. What are you actually going to do about it? What have you done? Watched from the side lines? Contributed to the corruption of religious government in the first place? Beware not everyone on here is who they claim to be. Opposite hiding in plain sight.