Tuesday, June 9, 2020

Dave Pack: The More You Give The Better Your Reward Of Salvation



Back in late 2017, Davie gave a follow-up sermon expounding on his "All Things Common" teaching which demands that Restored Church of God members are to sell all they have and give it to Dave.
Let’s review several verses, starting with two now very familiar Matthew 13 parables. The picture they paint is irrefutable.
First, “The kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man has found, he hides, and for joy thereof goes and sells all that he has, and buys that field” (vs. 44). And, “The kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it” (vs. 45-46).
In both parables, the value of the Kingdom outweighed the value of everything else. Do we all see this alike?
But what did these parables mean—“sells/sold all that he has”—in actual practical fact? Surely Christ would never leave such a life-altering action subject to opinion.
The also very familiar Acts 2 description of the early Church pictures a time of extraordinary excitement, unity and growth, and serves as a template for us—the Church of the final generation. And it puts a face on Christ’s parables and on the additional verses that follow.
Immediate big growth followed Peter’s first sermon: “Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added…about three thousand souls” (vs. 41). It was a time of great unity: “And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers” (vs. 42). Miracles regularly occurred: “And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles” (vs. 43).
Tied to this, “And all that believed were together, and had all things common; and sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, praising God, and having favor with all the people” (vs. 44-47). From Pentecost forward (the day Christ built His Church), the Common doctrine was in place. God was pleased: “And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved” (vs. 47).
Chapter 4 adds emphasis: “The multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors [not everyone] of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, and laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need” (vs. 32-35).
Here is where Davie deviates from the path.  Once people give him the money it is his and his alone. Since everything belongs to God and Davie is God's superfantabulous leader today, then naturally, everything belongs to Davie. the difference here is that Davie does NOT share the money he has with members who may be suffering.  Davie never distributes anything to anyone in need.
Most commands related to Common come directly from Christ Himself. His instruction alongside the New Testament pattern is unmistakable—material possessions (excluding of course what would be necessary to comfortably/modestly live) were sold. The increase went to needs in the Church. The chapter closes picturing a man who did his part—in contrast to the sad story of Ananias and Sapphira’s deceit right after in chapter 5. It is no wonder Jesus warned of the “deceitfulness of riches” in the parable of the sower and the seed. Christ had much to say regarding Common. From where else would the apostles have derived their authority? Here’s more.
In Matthew 19:16, Jesus answered what is the very greatest question in the Bible: “One came and said unto Him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have ETERNAL LIFE?” Nothing is more important for a follower of Christ. What goal could be greater than receiving eternal life?! Christ’s answer began, “If you will enter into life, keep the commandments,” and ended with “If you will be perfect [the pursuit of every Christian—recall Matt. 5:48], go and sell that you have, and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven: and come and follow Me(19:1721).
Now notice how Davie twists this to his own advantage and says the money is for his use and does not need to be distributed to the poor or those in need. Who cares if they are homeless or suffering, Hearing Davie's messages is far more important than any physical needs, like feeding ones belly or finding shelter.
Jesus was not telling the man to give his money directly to the poor—but rather to fund the great commission at hand. God’s Work alone brings to the poor what Christ said they should hear—the true gospel (read Luke 7:22 and Matt. 11:5). The Restored Church of God is the only organization that does this today.
Jesus went on to acknowledge that parting with riches was very difficult, so much so that “a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven” (vs. 23), but the reward is incomparable. The “exceedingly amazed” disciples, who held the rich in high regard, asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus explained that even the rich could do this: “With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible” (vs. 25-26). Continuing, the apostles themselves were no exception to the Common command—and this proves they obeyed it from a point years before the Church was even built. Grasp this!: “Then answered Peter and said unto Him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed You” (vs. 27). The verses that follow reveal their reward.
In Luke 14, Jesus spoke of a coming “great supper.” But the guests who were invited made “excuse.” One was focused on property—a “piece of ground.” Another on “oxen.” A third put a wife first. The angry host (God) had to find other guests, with none who were originally invited permitted to “taste of my supper.” Jesus immediately addressed three elements of His Zechariah 11 “price” for discipleship. Each of the three was attached to whether one could even be Christ’s disciple.
The rebellious vermin in the church that do not agree with Davie's "All Things Common" teaching cannot ever be a disciple of his "christ." As usual, church members re never good enough for the creature "christ" that church leaders have created.
First was the need to put love of Christ ahead of family (vs. 26). Second was a follower’s requirement to “bear his cross” and “count the cost” (vs. 27-32). Christianity is a life of endurance, something every disciple must understand. The third element relates directly to Common—a literal “price” in the monetary sense: “whosoever he be of you that forsakes not all that he has [there it is again], he cannot be My disciple” (vs. 33). Of course a tiny few have left us, not willing to meet Christ’s price. They dismiss the plainness of Common teaching, but it seems invariably we learn they were also disobeying God in other ways.
The more you give to Davie the better your reward is going to be in his man-made kingdom. 
Earlier in Luke 6, Jesus had taught that willingness to give what God instructs correlates directly to reward: “Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that you mete withal it shall be measured to you again!(vs. 38).
This is a promise—and an EQUATION!
Davie claims that the amazing superfantabulous work that he is doing is all a result of members heeding the "common" call. 
Perhaps many do not realize how God has used a small flock to achieve so much. The answer is simple. Beyond outright miracles, the way we have advanced—in fact leaped ahead—has been through Common checks that came from people who believed God. They read the verses you just saw, and others, and then in faith BELIEVED GOD! Their reaction was very different from the rich young ruler of Matthew 19.
Notice what he says next: if you do not give ALL to him, then you are NOT obeying his "christ." 
Many have obeyed the above verses. But of course we never “police” it (how could we if we even wanted to!). Some may still be wrestling over these passages, stuck in the middle. They have not decided to disobey God, but have not yet brought themselves to where they can obey Him. I hope this article will help turn the corner for some. More powerful verses are ahead.
Davie reinforces AGAIN that RCG members are NOT to leave money to their children or anyone else.  That "anyone else" has ended up being non-member spouses.  RCG members are taking money from their spouses and giving it to Davie.
Before continuing, know that the Work has advanced as it has because many people sent smallmedium and large“common” sums. They understood that the shortness of time precludes leaving funds to children or bequeathing them anywhere else. They know they cannot possibly spend it! Most importantly they know they must believe and heed the plain words of God!
Davie now wants all of his followers to know that he is giving his money to the church and also justifies why he needs to live in a custom-built home on this sueprfantabulous campus.
Mr. Armstrong sometimes shared his personal financial sacrifices so others would feel connected to him, and know that he lived what he taught. My wife and I moved onto the Campus last week into a smaller home with a much bigger payment (set by IRS rules). But it is better for the Work if I (and a few others) live behind a gate. We all understand the world we live in. It is important that you know I have always sought to practice what I preach—to set the example. My wife and I just gave perhaps our last Common check from equity on our previous home. We are thrilled. Also, just over two years ago, my wife’s 97-year-old grandmother died. They were very close. My wife unexpectedly received a small inheritance, and immediately on her own gave most of it to the Work. It was entirely her call. From a family that never had much money, she still didn’t hesitate.
We have done our part. As Mr. Armstrong occasionally reported, you should know this of your leader. 
Aren't you impressed!  Davie has done his part, now you must do your part and continue and continue and continue to do your part!

The more you give the more "sons of God" will be reached and join the RCG. The only problem for Davie and his crew in Wadsworth is that for each person who may be joining up with him (almost always a person from another COG) there are multiple people who leave his group.  Davie is not growing his church.
Rather than many tens or even hundreds of thousands of people giving moderately, as Co-Workers did in the Worldwide Church of God, it now takes Common checks from faithful brethren for the Work to be able to freely give what all of us once freely received—to carry out the Great Commission of teaching all nations all things whatsoever Christ commanded (Matt. 28:19-20). Besides regular tithes and offerings, it is Common that is yielding many more sons of God. Many reading this article are part of that “crop.” But ultimately the generosity of others facilitated the calling of all of us! YOU may actually be here because someone else obeyed verses you just read. Could your actions produce the next crop who would be eternally thankful for what you did without ever having known your name?
The more you give to Davie, the better your reward will be in the Kingdom of God! Heck, you may even get your own planet to rule over! Wowsers! 
If you have been blessed with extra substance and are able to help, think of your ability in terms of making an investment. Most investments carry risk. Those of lowest risk offer guaranteed rates of return—almost always small. God’sinvestment plan is different. If you fulfill (all elements of) your end of the deal, He guarantees the very greatest return—a role in the KINGDOM OF GOD where we can directly affect millions!
Davie ends his message with this:
The “nuts and bolts” of Common have been covered elsewhere. What you read here is not meant to—and cannot—replace the other material. The original article has a thorough section answering questions. But certain practicalities should be reasserted.
First, you cannot give what you do not have. Don’t try! God does not want you destitute. Though you may want to give more, if you have honestly assessed your situation and cannot, seek to serve more in other ways (prayer, sending cards, transporting others, congregational duties, visiting the sick and widows, hosting meals, local fundraising, etc.).
If you encounter opposition from family (most likely a mate), recognize that he or she cannot give you salvation. And also recognize that if God is not calling or working with your mate, He is not holding them accountable for resisting you. He is not seeking their agreement. The matter is between you and God.
You know exactly where this goes when he says this.  RCG members cut off their unconverted spouses financially and many times with divorces. 
Finally, if it takes time to sort out how much Common you can send, send part as soon as possible! Those funds can be put to use now. Maybe the fifth law of success—resourcefulness!—has a place here.
Davie claims that giving does not give eternal life but then says that not giving "precludes it." 

Its never about following Jesus, but always about doing something to impress the dude so that he might pass out some salvation tokens, here and there.
Two starkly different choices present themselves to those in a position to give. Cling to riches now and lose everything later—or—give so that others may have what you have been given, and in so doing help secure your place in the Family of God for eternity. While giving Common does not ensure entrance, or “buy a ticket” to eternal life, withholding precludes it. Incredibly, standing face to face with Him, the rich young ruler was not even willing to obey the very Jesus Christ who was the One who could give him eternal life.
Are you? 

30 comments:

nck said...

Bless you for exposing the evils of David Pack and those that espouse similar evils.
nck (not a victim personally but nevertheless)

Anonymous said...

"and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles"



Doesn't all the signs and wonders that Dave performs prove that he's god's sole servant on earth?

Oh, wait. If there are no signs and wonders, why should he receive the common?

DennisCDiehl said...

Nice posting on Dave's demented views.

Dave says "In both parables, the value of the Kingdom outweighed the value of everything else. Do we all see this alike?"

This simply means "Do we all agree with me?" What a malignant theological con man Dave Pack has become. His view and use of "all things common" is a gross and out of historical context use of the NT tale. Of course originally it was tied to the very very imminent "I"ll be right back" impression Gospel Jesus and the first chapters of Acts give and erroneously so as history has shown. Frankly, dead people, gods or no, don't come back from the dead and don't rise up through the clouds to "heaven". That's theater at it's theological best.

No Jesus returned then and isn't about to return now. Dave, however, can use that eternal carrot of the past 2000 years to convince the gullible that his all things common views are precisely because Jesus is coming just as soon as the original church thought but this time it is for really really true. It is not.

For a refresher on Dave's original "Clarion Call" sermon where he beat his groupies into submission and made his first call to "send it in" see the Exit and Support Expose here:

https://exitsupportnetwork.com/expose-of-clarion-call-the-time-is-now/

The Kingdom of Pack is not going to end well and the few gyrating members he badgers into holding him up for now will regret ever having heard of him or his malignant theology.

Stevoreno said...

A couple days ago I was on YouTube watching a recent RCG video. Actually I wasn't watching that crap, I go there once in awhile to read the comments.
I saw 2 guys talking about how impressed they were how Dave doesn't talk about money and Dave is different from other religious leaders who only care about money. I replied to them telling them about Dave's common doctrine and that they should google Dave's clarion call. They would be able to see how money is Dave's only agenda. I haven't gotten a reply from either of them yet.
By the way, what ever happened to that famous jew Dave said was very interested in RCG? Was it a lie or just Dave being delusional? Any other option isn't possible

Anonymous said...

After all the mullah he's raked in with this, there's still no TV outreach!? How is 'he alone' fulfilling the 'Great Commission' when his fancy television studio is now way underutilized!? His 'Work' is not rising above the threshold of public perceptibility!

Anonymous said...

Dave uses the most common deceptive ploy used by Herb and his ministers. It takes the form of implying a idea, rather than explicitly stating it, and then using the "magic" of repetition to drive the point home. For instance, Herb had members believe in Christ returning 1975, while having plausible deniability.

Another example is the ACOGs totalitarianism. They practice it, but never state or affirm it. Instead they imply it by using code words such as "those God has placed over you," "administering God's government," "ruling over others," together with incessant "obey," "yield, "surrender," "submit."

Anonymous said...

Dave and Simon Magus agree that you CAN buy salvation!

Anonymous said...

You have to pay to play. I think my odds are better at the casino.

Anonymous said...


Klepto-Dave Pack-of-lies lies and steals again!

Anonymous said...


David Pack is all about lying to everyone, promoting himself endlessly, stealing everything he can, and leaving his victims destroyed and destitute.

Anonymous said...


David C. Pack scammed former Worldwide Church of God members by initially claiming that he was going to restore all of Herbert W. Armstrong's teachings from 1986. Then, over time, David Pack went totally nuts and made unbelievable doctrinal changes. Any people who were truly sincere about trying to hold on to what HWA had taught them had to cut their huge losses and get away from David Pack and his Restored Church.

Anonymous said...



Deranged religious leaders like David C. Pack and Gerald R. Flurry are what people can end up following when they have “zeal without knowledge.”

Anonymous said...


Con-artists like David C. Pack and Gerald R. Flurry initially pretended to be following Herbert W. Armstrong's teachings more faithfully than anyone else. They really nitpicked about any slight deviation from HWA's teachings that anyone else made. Then they themselves both went on to make absolutely monstrous changes that the people they had criticized would never have even dreamed of making.

Anonymous said...

"Any people who were truly sincere about trying to hold on to what HWA had taught them had to cut their huge losses and get away from David Pack and his Restored Church."



and therein lies the problem....people following a man.....even if the man said "don't believe me, believe your bible" so many still clung to him, instead of seeking out Jesus & His teachings.
maybe God is using people like Pack to test His Church, to see who's really in.

the Ocelot said...

Three tithes Holy day offerings , building and jet fuel funds aren't enough Some groups also teach a "First Fruits offering" as another way to shake down the sheep,but this in common BS really takes the prize

Anonymous said...

And if Daves God tells you to molest children will the membership still follow?

Anonymous said...

Dave's common doctrine violates principles such as 'you reap what you sow,' and 'a workman is worthy of his wages.' It ignores basic justice.
Dave in cashing in on the church always feeding its members spiritual milk. Herbs two trees sermon means squat in the real world.

TLA said...

Steve Jobs was accused of having a reality distortion field, but this reality distortion is common among the most effective religious preachers, politicians, and con artists.
I was firmly immersed in Armstrongism most of my life until the cracks started opening up and allowing me to view all the facts. Took about a year to be completely free.
The people who follow Dave Pack and others like him have had their reality field distorted so badly that his teachings are completely logical to them.
having been so wrong in the past, I hope I am more open to change as I learn new and different things.

Anonymous said...

1844 Great Disappointment Redux. From Wikipedia:

The Millerites had to deal with their own shattered expectations, as well as considerable criticism and even violence from the public. Many followers had given up their possessions in expectation of Christ's return . . . Both Millerite leaders and followers were left generally bewildered and disillusioned. Responses varied: some continued to look daily for Christ's return, while others predicted different dates—among them April, July, and October 1845 . . . Others acted as children, basing their belief on Jesus' words in Mark 10:15: "Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it."

The part about pretending to be children is creepy. Further, a regrettable and unfortunate phenomenon:

Escalation of commitment is a human behavior pattern in which an individual or group facing increasingly negative outcomes from a decision, action, or investment nevertheless continues the behavior instead of altering course. The actor maintains behaviors that are irrational, but align with previous decisions and actions.

Anonymous said...

Ephesians 4:28 “Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need.”

Paul confirms the fact that we should not steal, but rather labor honestly. With that income we have obligations to support the God’s work and then clearly help those in need. If everything is to go to the work, who helps those in need?

Anonymous said...


Anonymous at 7:07 PM said...“If everything is to go to the work, who helps those in need?”


Dave Pack never helps those in need. Dave Pack only makes people disillusioned, discouraged, destitute, and in need.

Earl said...

TLA,

Our reality field of the Creator was also distorted. Even observing the balance and beauty of the creation should reveal something about the Creator, but the COGs distorted that by creating an image of God that is continually harsh and not so much of a loving Father. That has to be removed before or as we take on Christ. How can we take on Christ if we see a Father that is not the love that He claimed? The distortion needs correcting and then acceptance of that correction.
There are questions that might never be answered until I see the Lord face to face, but from the creation of the world a Saviour was planned and a paradise given with the choice of Life.
I'll spare you some speculation as I generally find other's images of eternity (or simply being) a little off-putting. What is enticing to some is not so enticing to others and vice versa with our minds that see through a glass dimly.
I stop myself. I'll say no more.

Earl said...

NEO and TLA,
Your comments make me further believe that the Lord put us on this earth to Live. This is not contrary to the balance of this earth. Live love laugh as some have said. Even the sabbath was made for man. These are gifts we are given and through Christ we as humans can better live them. Even an agnostic like Dennis can accept much of that philosophy. Such things as gnosticism either were counter to this or debased it as did other forms of paganism.
Good gifts through the love of Christ. His words aren't onerous are they? even if we don't always fulfill them.
Merely some considerations.

Anonymous said...

NT teaches: He who doesn't take care of his own is worse than an unbeliever.
We should do good to all men, especially those who are of the faith.
So, priorities should be: family, church family, all other people (non-believers). Do these churches assist non believers in any way? Where in the annual financial report does it show ministry to non believers?
Barnabas sold a piece of land he didn't need and voluntarily gave it to help those in need. Everything "in common" was a description of what people did, not a prescription of what we all MUST do.
Pack shouldn't take descriptions and turn them into a prescription whenever he wants to, to benefit the church (himself).
Some churches pay their pastors the average salary of the members. I don't think the standard of living of those living on Waverly Drive was the average standard of living for the members.

Tonto said...

Just watched a "Jim Jones - Guyana" documentary again. Pack and Jim Jones are led by the same narcissistic sociopathic demons, and I hope that Pack and his group do not find the same ending as Jones.

Anonymous said...

Wasn't the (in common) supposed to help the brethren, and not to embellish themselves? All of the cogs seem to forget that point.The worse one is Cogwa They spend huge amounts on salaries and brag when they hire someone new.They seem to forget what tithes and offerings is to be used for.That bloated bureaucracy in ALlen Texas is shameful. They spend like drunken sailors on themselves and overseas trips but try and get help for widows or poor you might as well spit in the wind. Roanoke is a prime example they have a bunch know nothings playing minister elder and worst of all they promote people to decon who don't have a clue asto what their talking about.

Anonymous said...

The "common" by the Christians in Acts is the result of their exuberance of just being given the holy spirit. They "common" behavior was a belief they acquired from their enviroment rather than from the scriptures or the apostles. Socialism/egalitarianism was common in the ancient world, Sparta being the best example. At that time, one in three citizens of Rome was receiving government handouts.
Peter affirmed property rights when he confronted Ananias with "didn't the land belong to you before you sold it, and wasn't the money at your disposal?" So there's no Communism or group ownership of property being advocated.

WHAT ABOUT THE TRUTH said...



nck (not a victim personally but nevertheless)

Nck, you are a victim in waiting. Dave Pack's form of rendition will make what the Chinese are openly doing for the "motherland" look like a just and noble cause.

Remember, "Common" was only started within the RCG for a stepping stone to then encapsulate all the splinter organizations and their "Common". From that point the march to Jerusalem would come next with prophesied Pack and his six sword carrying men exacting money and blood from the not too cooperative population. From there it is onto the rest of the world who will be given the ultimatum of paying Christ's price.

So Nck, how's your garden doing and what quality is your armor and just how secure is your swiss bank account?

Ronco said...

Daffy Duck brings back some great Saturday morning memories...

https://youtu.be/RKMNPQ35OUc
https://youtu.be/anuoB2C6AYk?t=62
https://youtu.be/DE0miV8YBBw?t=94

Anonymous said...

Dave Pack's bottom line seems to be where he said: "...Two starkly different choices present themselves to those in a position to give. Cling to riches now and lose everything later—or—give so that others may have what you have been given, and in so doing help secure your place in the Family of God for eternity. While giving Common does not ensure entrance, or “buy a ticket” to eternal life, withholding precludes it..."

Oh, Christ, our Passover, sacrificed (I Cor 5:7) for us wasn't sufficient enough for one to ensure entrance to K/G and eternal life?

And what about this?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Is Dave Pack so serious that he can believe God through Jesus Christ hasn't done enough for us? To serve Dave, "his/Dave's way" sounds a lot like some form of idolatry, especially where Dave believes so much more is required for eternal life.

Time will tell...

John