CGI on Racial Tensions
Always timely, the Church of God International has moved on from the Coronavirus to a discussion of racial tensions in the United States. This time the topic is handled via a “web chat” featuring pastors Bill Watson and Adrian Davis. Unfortunately, like the previous offerings on the pandemic, this one rapidly assumes the characteristics of an apologetic for right-wing conspiracy theories.
In fact, before the dialogue even started, I was struck by the absence of CGI’s most prominent African American minister, Bronson James. One has to wonder why a black Canadian pastor was chosen for this topic instead of the most prominent black voice within their U.S. churches. Could it have anything to do with the fact that Pastor Davis agrees with Pastor Watson’s conspiracy theories about a Marxist-Globalist agenda?
As the conversation proceeds, we see that this is exactly what is at work in this presentation. Pastor Davis begins by proclaiming that President Barack Obama was/is a neo-Marxist. Davis moves on to suggest that there is a dark conspiracy at work to bring down America. There is no recognition that anyone might be motivated by a desire to make America better – to extend the promise of America to all of her citizens. Pastor Davis insists that protesters are being played by powerful interests who do not really care about them or their demands for justice.
Pastor Watson quickly agrees and introduces his favorite whipping boy, George Soros, into the mix. He then proceeds to declare that these are facts, not conspiracy theories! He suggests that Soros is funding all of this unrest and implies that he is doing so to bring down America. Pastor Watson even implies that Soros is paying and training people to protest and sew discord.
The pastors then unite to tag-team the Black Lives Matter movement. Pastor Watson plays the good cop by lifting some noble quotations from their mission statement, but Pastor Davis immediately sets him straight. Davis informs us that it is a false narrative that blacks are being oppressed. He goes on to point out that the movement is queer affirming and opposed to heteronormative thinking. He tells us that no self-respecting Christian should even consider supporting such a movement.
Pastor Watson then inaugurates a brief discussion about the destruction of Confederate memorials. He suggests that folks are trying to rewrite history and undermine our forefathers. There is no acknowledgment that the objects of these memorials were traitors to the United States and were fighting (at least in part) to defend the institution of slavery. The pastors then conclude this segment with the suggestion that the ultimate objective of these iconoclasts is the subversion of the U.S. Constitution!
So, according to the Church of God International, there is no real problem here. This is just a bunch of neo-Marxists and homosexuals intent on the destruction of America. All of these racial tensions are indicative of “spiritual drunkenness” that people with nefarious motives are using for their own dark ends. The implication is that systemic racism and racial injustice are just illusions – a false narrative that has been promulgated to bring down America.
In providing a platform for this kind of discussion, it is clear to me that the Church of God International has decided that their best hope for appealing to a larger audience will be found among folks who support Donald Trump. They have clearly identified themselves with one side in the “Culture War.” In keeping with the times, they have staked out a clear political identity for themselves – one that eschews the center and the left. The obvious question that this brings to mind: Is that what a Christian Church should be doing?
Miller Jones
72 comments:
You can always count on CGI for a recitation of meme cliches.
The video was from 2017 I believe. It was very good.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR0Geb3-IVhYrs5oYtW2OdX1NyGAgGVv-xNCdDplU3lxvmWOt5ypiCUR6og&feature=share&v=VCf7yom_wls
More of the "White Guilt" garbage The rioters and looters are criminals pure and simple And George Soros is an evil race baiter And one more thing: I despise rap music Guess that
makes me a racist
Yeah, all this white guilt stuff is total crap. Total. Blacks commit far more crimes against whites than the other way around. FAR more. About ten times more. The media want a Communist revolution. Period. It's all lies.
"systematic racism and racial injustice???"
African Americans make up 13% of the population, yet commit 50% of the murders (most victims are black) and 60% of all robberies. Who is victimizing whom.
I just read that 18% of the armed forces is black, while only 9% are officers. The blacks claim this is an injustice. So let's have U.S. soldiers led into battle not by the most competent, but by men chosen by racial quotas. Brilliant! Where do I join up.
Maybe Miller needs to join the self righteous political elite like those idiots out in Hollywood apologizing for having light colored skin. If he wants to get a taste of it, go to downtown Atlanta where the anarchists have burnt & torched numerous businesses, many of them black owned. I guess he would place the blame of "White Privilege" or Trump.
And the Church of God Ministry are never more political motivated than serious scripture scholars.
No way ever... Who said that..
It`s like the saying the Church of God Ministry are more into gossip than the gospel. No way could that be ...
So I take it that Miller Jones does not believe people have a right to a opinion?
Would it be more acceptable to him if these speakers gave a knee instead?
well Lonnie, they are correct in that this is not about black people, it's about bringing down the USA.
the left have their own definitions for words...."better" means "the way we want it" in their language...forget the constitution, let's have things our way (which, by the way, is not the way the vast majority of Americans want it)
I think what triggered you is that they lumped homosexuality in with marxism...and, they do have a point there.
Unfortunately, many of the comments here confirm the truth of an observation that was made to me in private - that current and former members of the Armstrong Churches of God seem to be predisposed to accepting right-wing conspiracy theories and racist views. Likewise, many of these comments reveal an ignorance of history that is consistent with the very limited understanding of this subject by the founder of the movement, Herbert W Armstrong. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs, but you are probably going to have problems and face challenges if you stray too far from the facts.
There is no denying the FACT that Africans were forcibly removed from their homeland and brought to this country to work as slave labor. We know that they were packed onto ships like sardines in a can, and that they died in large numbers on the voyage to America. We know that families were divided, and that they were denied the opportunity of being educated. And, when the slaves were finally freed, most of them started out with zero wealth or property, and very limited prospects for acquiring either.
We know that African Americans faced extreme prejudice, abject poverty, segregation, inferior schooling, gross injustice (e.g. lynching) and the denial of their right to vote or hold office for one hundred years after the conclusion of the Civil War. And are any of the commentators here foolish enough to propose that all of these impediments to progress and improvement magically disappeared as a consequence of the Civil Rights Movement? Why do you suppose we have the crime statistics that you cited?
As for the protesters, what do we do with the vast majority of folks who are demonstrating peacefully - a right that is guaranteed to them under the U.S. Constitution? And I haven't heard many voices calling for the downfall of America. Most of these folks want positive change. They want to extend the blessings of U.S. citizenship to all Americans. They are advocating for the equal and fair treatment of all people before the law. It is unfortunate that we all must occasionally pay for the mistakes and sins of a few - a lesson that every school age child learns early on.
I wish that the COGS would embrace a more "personal development" and personal empowermentlgrowth philosophy , rather than being a "Headline Theology" institution that "bandwagons" onto the latest hot issue topics and then proffers their so called "expert opinions" and solutions on the issues.
In that regard, the COGS are not any different than CNN or FOX , jumping around from crisis to crisis to engender prurient interest and emotional hot buttons to try and attract attention.
Discipleship has as a base word, "discipline". Privately embracing and practicing disciplines and becoming actualized to them requires time and patience. They are not mental and emotional "sugar highs" which COG and also media advertising cater to.
Personal self development, using the tools of the spirit, and expert guidance from professionals potentially even outside of the religious realm, in regards to achievement, financial matters, career guidance, health and exercise, goal setting, and many more topics would benefit the brethren greatly and help them to be better citizens in the community and life, and would be developing self leadership.
However , if your mindset is that "things are going to end in 5 years or less", the motivation to embrace the struggle of personal development diminishes. Instead, you end up "rooting for" your own "personal jackpot" of the "end of the world", which then would deliver your "reward" of glory and honor at that time.
A lot of COG marketing and social philosophy is extremely short term and myopic in thinking. The SDAs were smart enough to invest long term into schools, church buildings, hospitals and colleges and have now grown to 17 million people worldwide from a base of just around 10 thousand or less, back in 1900.
Proof is always in the fruits, and the short term thinking COG systemic hierarchy system has failed!
PS-- Im getting a T SHIRT that says "COG MEMBER LIVES MATTER!"
Dennis, you talk too much. I hardly ever read your posts because they are so damn long and boring.
Miller, WE didn't put the black man in those circumstances. Why can't they just get over it and move on? The rest of us have. My ancestors were Irish. They were treated as badly as the blacks, not only in their own country, but here in the good ole USA as well, My ancestors had to get rid of the "MC" in order to survive the persecution, but, you know what? We moved on and stop blaming our problems on other races. We are not demanding reparations. We are not committing the vast majority of atrocities. We are not marching, burning, looting and stealing. Sop, get over it and start obeying the laws.
Yes Miller Jones, we know the blacks have been oppressed, but how so? You tell the commentators here that they are beholden to:
"ignorance of history that is consistent with the very limited understanding of this subject" and are "predisposed to accepting right-wing conspiracy theories and racist views."
As editor of the Painful Truth for the last 11 years, I have found the opposite. Most of the people coming out of armstrongism swing towards the left, the socialist party after exiting the cult. But why?
#1 After following HWA and his minnions for decades, when people finally rejected HWA in entirity, their views flipped and ran opposite of his.
This is a form of rejection.
#2 During time in the cult we were taught no opinion is "right" except the church opinion. There is but one correct opinion.
We learned to be closed minded.
#3 The church needed to control our lives because they knew what was best for us, and their use of scare tactics to terrorize us to remain in the fold worked to control us.
This taught us obedience.
#4 In the end we were always on the liberal side, we just were looking for someone to take care of us. We didn't have to do anything because God was going to straighten it out. Just kick back and let the others do the work. Pay and pray was our only job.
This behavior became part of our character and still is.
Back to the subject of slavery, with some questions no one else is asking.
Most slaves brought to America from Africa were purchased from black slave owners?
Brutal black-on-black slavery was common in Africa for thousands of years?
In 1830 there were 3,775 free black people who owned 12,740 black slaves?
Is it also true that most of those killed by police are male and white?
So if we are going talk about this BLM subject we need to talk about black on black crime. Who kills more of whom? Do whites kill more blacks? Do blacks kill more whites.
Is this true?
Or is this true?
Tonto, thanks for the thoughtful comments. I hope everyone reads what you wrote and seriously considers the points you've made.
Anonymous 6/14 @ 9:09, Yes, our Irish ancestors were often subjected to extreme prejudice. However, they were never enslaved in America (indentured servitude was contractual and confined to a period of service). Also, Irish immigrants had more opportunities for advancement and reward for their hard work.
Painful Truth, Read the Armstrong Church of God literature and listen to their sermons - all of them favor the right, and NONE of them lean to the left. Moreover, their theology abhors moderation and the middle. Unfortunately, the above referenced CGI web chat is more representative of ACOG political thinking than any of the other alternatives currently extant in our society. As for your other point about black ownership of blacks, how does that negate the point that blacks were oppressed? And is there any chance that the crime and violence extant in our black communities has anything to do with the circumstances (historic, economic, social, geographical, educational, etc.) in which they find themselves?
Reply to Miller Jones:
"As for your other point about black ownership of blacks, how does that negate the point that blacks were oppressed?"
My statements pointed out that the biggest oppressors of the blacks in the past is the blacks themselves.
In the modern age it started out with LBJ's great society, and race baiters like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton who became millionaires through their efforts. All democrats.
Keep in mind that Yassar Arafat did the same to his people. Pandering can make you a fortune.
"And is there any chance that the crime and violence extant in our black communities has anything to do with the circumstances (historic, economic, social, geographical, educational, etc.) in which they find themselves?"
Even with equal opportunity blacks have not bought success to their race. Why? LBJ's great society pandering programs. It enslaved them. Some is due to racist ideologies of whites and Mexicans, not to mention Asians. Equal opportunity educational programs were put into place decades ago. They have now become un-affordable to all races. Why? Government involvement.
The idea of reparations being called into this horse and pony show is obscene. Not one of these people experience slavery, and with blacks as some of the biggest slave owners in the past, I think the blacks need to ask the descendants of black slave owners for reparations.
This can be fixed by those so called leaders of the black communities. However, Jackson and Sharpton have chosen to remained quiet.
You should read more Walter Williams but I know you won't. This man lived it.
https://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/
Speakin about Irish and Atlanta.
I watched "Gone with the wind" yesterday, before its gone with the wind.
Scarlett did threaten to sell the younger girl and Mammy said "white trash" 6 times.
Nck
Nck said : Scarlett did threaten to sell the younger girl and Mammy said "white trash" 6 times.
Do you need therapy now?
Nck is drunk texting again. But then, has he ever made sense?
This is just the beginning. Our nation will descend into a civil war. This has nothing to do with Bible prophecy or the Tribulation. The Bible is about Israel - not about big Gentile, North America. What happens to the USA does not rate a line in any of The Prophets. We're not even a sidebar. Gentile empires have been rising and falling for millennia. It's old hat.
But the social dynamics are there. The demographics are inexorable. Whites will soon be a minority. Whites have not ingratiated themselves with people of color over the history of the US. South Africa redux. Republicans know this. They want an authoritarian president and an armed White population - for now Trump and NRA. There will be others.
I hate to be melancholy on a fine Sunday afternoon but our lives are going to change like you wouldn't believe. Now it is an academic argument, later it will be you ducking bullets in your backyard. By the time Christ returns, nobody will remember the USA.
No nck never does.
What happened to Dennis Diehl's comments? Dennis, I appreciate your comments - some folks are jealous because they have nothing or very little to say!
Fools postin' books about subliminal marketing, then askin' if nck ever "made sense".
At least NEO gets the gist. He must be a believer at heart.
Nck
Yeah NEO.
With CNN and Fox in the role of *Radio Television Libre des Mille Collines*.
And perhaps BB will get his Germans on American soil, exactly like the French troops in the Congo evacuating the wealthier whites, in an airbridge payed by the Russians.
I feel a new type of Hollywood movie coming up as "alien invasions" were a hollywood reaction to red scare propaganda.
New nckisn Bumper sticker: What would artists do?
Nck
Nck
Sometimes it seems that Miller Jones is the only person on this board with any sense. And that's a scary thought!
Most of the comments on this thread make me feel I am back in WCG in the sixties.(But I suppose many of the people posting were in WCG in the sixties! Some opinions just don't change, despite religious, or non-religious, affiliation).
Check this out:
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/13/876302978/in-east-texas-death-of-george-floyd-brings-activism-to-a-region-of-rare-protest
Miller Jones
Claiming that all the ACOGs favor the political right is misleading. They cherry pick the right. They agree with their anti abortion platform, family values, and especially a strong national defence, so that it's safe for them to play church. Hence members are taught to be passive, but they preach an assertive military posture. Historically the right has been about maximum personal freedom with the government keeping it's hands off the economy. Herbs church has never been about freedom but rather treating members like children. This is left wing. The entitlement "give way" and "outgoing concern" is left wing as well. Morally Herbs church has always been commie/left wing. That during the 1960s, Herb had all the men wear dark blue suits similar in color to the then Mao suits, says it all.
Miller Jones said...
What happened to Dennis Diehl's comments? Dennis, I appreciate your comments - some folks are jealous because they have nothing or very little to say!
June 14, 2020 at 4:44 PM
Needed Dennis to bail you out. Didn't happen and for good reason.
"There is no denying the FACT that Africans were forcibly removed from their homeland..."
by other Africans.
"And, when the slaves were finally freed, most of them started out with zero wealth or property, and very limited prospects for acquiring either."
tell that to my immigrant grandfather who came here not even speaking the language yet died a very successful man.
"We know that African Americans faced extreme prejudice, abject poverty, segregation, inferior schooling, gross injustice..."
just like my grandfather...one did not venture out of their neighborhood in those days...
I could go on and on.....Americans have a low tolerance for laziness, not my fault, I can't, etc etc....
I know too many honest, hard working black folks to have any sympathy for the lazy thugs that are terrorizing cities right now....honest black folks are the real victims of this lunacy.
no other culture celebrates failure and dependence like the black hip-hop/rap culture in America (and only in America are they allowed to be that way)
"(indentured servitude was contractual and confined to a period of service)"
Lonnie, it looks like you're the one in need of a history lesson.
Only about 40% of indentured servants were ever freed from their "contract".
Look it up!
Anonymous 6/15 @ 12:57,
There is NOTHING left-wing about what Pastors Watson and Davis have offered in this web chat - NOTHING! And concern for the other fellow is biblical. Are you suggesting that Jesus Christ was a commie? And, according to Scripture, those who are exclusively devoted to self-interest are NOT God's children - they belong to the other guy!
Marcus,
Sorry to disappoint you, I don't need anyone to bail me out. You may have missed it, but I have addressed most of the racist comments that have been posted here. Although I frequently disagree with Mr. Diehl, I have a great deal of respect for him and his journey.
Anonymous 6/15 @ 6:06,
Are you suggesting that hard work is always rewarded with success? And remember when you answer that question were talking about the real world, not some theory about the way things are supposed to work! I know lots of hard-working folks (black and white) who don't own a home or have very much money in the bank - they are NOT lazy! Are you suggesting that the majority of black folks are lazy? Was your immigrant ancestor black? There is obviously a big difference in the kind of discrimination and prejudice based on an accent or surname and that which is based on the color of your skin!
Anonymous 6/15 @ 8:07,
I did not say that indentured servitude wasn't hard or sometimes cruel. My point is that it was fundamentally different from slavery (which is consistent with all legitimate historical treatises on the subject). Here are a few lessons for you:
http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/feature/indentured-servants-in-the-us/
https://www.ushistory.org/us/5b.asp
June 15 at 12:57 AM says: "Historically the right has been about maximum personal freedom with the government keeping it's hands off the economy."
Right you are about maximum personal freedom, except when the persons desiring personal freedom are female, black, American Indian, Latinx, Asian, recently arrived, or LGBTQ. The government gets to limit their personal freedoms in the ways most galling to each particular group.
Also right about the government keeping its hands off the economy, except to pass laws and administer policies that tilt the economic trough so the slop all runs toward the end where the big pigs feed.
June 15, 2020 at 12:00 PM There have been no raciest comments here. You see what you want to see.
When people see through your assumptions you call them raciest.
You stink buddy.
Well said Marcus.
12.20 PM
Today's right is the equivalent of the left in the 1960s and 1970s, giving us the crony capitalism that you complain about. And todays left has gone full commie.
Small government political parties have ceased to exist worldwide.
Retired Professor,
Thank you for setting the record straight on right-wing attitudes toward personal freedom and economic intervention.
Marcus,
I characterized the comments as racist, not the individuals making them. However, if the shoe fits... Personally, as someone with extensive Southern ancestry, I've known and loved many individuals in my lifetime who exhibited racist views. We are all flawed - sometimes the flaw is racism, sometimes it's lack of care and concern for others, and sometimes it's many different things. By the way, I took a bath and put on deodorant this morning - don't know what else to do!
Miller Jones
All this "so many of you are racists" accusation smells of school yard bully types telling their victims that they are dirt, and deserve to be treated like dirt. It's purpose is to mentally disarm the victims into tolerating all manner of appalling mistreatment and exploitation. The implication is that this is the beginning in a very ugly episode in American history.
School yard bullying is rife within the Ministry. They even use old women attendees to bully mock anyone who speaks out about it. They hide behind their skirt hems.
I think the Chinese Communist party will soon fully endorse a 2nd term for Donald Trump.
The unravelling of post war american international alliances and the unravelling of its domestic social fabric as a bonus will outweigh any temporary disadvantages posed by trade disputes.
nck
Regarding "personal freedom and the right."
Could anyone please explain to me the difference between "an expanded trump rally in Tulsa Oklahoma during Covid times and a Jim Jones gathering in Guyana????"
Regarding "personal freedom and the left."
I regard it "not done" that long time participant BB is absent from "the blog" in Covid Times, having me worried, while he maybe sipping a marguerita in baya california in hotel california.
I need that tracking system to follow "dissenters" real soon to provide my ego with a sense of consistency and security.
nck
June 15, 2020 at 7:19 PM
It's purpose is to mentally disarm the victims into tolerating all manner of appalling mistreatment and exploitation.
Miller Jones has learned this from his time in the wcg
Retire Prof
You twist definitions, making it easy to attack these re-defined concepts, then put back the original definition. Twist, attack, twist back. The ACOGs have a history of using this ploy.
What were you a professor of? Dishonesty?
Actually, nck, I'd like YOU to explain the difference between "an expanded trump rally" in Tulsa Oklahoma during Covid times and a Jim Jones gathering in Guyana.
Who has been bullying whom in this thread? I've been accused of being a "useful idiot," a peddler of "White Guilt garbage," a liar, against free expression of opinions, angry, in need of a bail out, a deceiver, in need of a history lesson, a bully and a manipulator. On the other hand, I have attempted to remind folks of our history as a nation. As someone who has studied history and genealogy for most of my life, I understand the inclination to leave out all of the negative stuff - negative stuff is unpleasant.
When we are children, we tend to have an exaggerated view of our parents. For most of us, they are heroes who can do no wrong. As we reach adulthood, however, we begin to understand that our parents are human, and that they made plenty of mistakes along the way. We still love and respect them, but (for most of us) our expectations become more realistic.
The United States is a great country - a country that I love and have defended. However, as my knowledge of our history has deepened through the years, it became apparent to me that our forefathers were very human and made plenty of mistakes along the way - not all of our history is glorious and good! I still love and respect my country, but I now understand that America's past is much more complex than I had originally imagined.
Like individual Christians, America is a work in progress. Over time, we have extended the benefits and rights of citizenship to more and more of our population. This is a good thing. Correcting past injustices and striving to overcome the inequalities that our system has generated should be the work of all of us. And one has to wonder, why would such a proposition be controversial or disputed by anyone?
Can't tell (yet).
Perhaps in 2 weeks.
Did they sing in Guyana?
Nck
Miller Jones
"Why would such a proposition be controversial or disputed by anyone?"
Read your bible. In the parable of the talents, there is a spread of talents given, with differing results achieved with said talents. There is NO equality or communism here, which you push with your code words such as 'extending the benefits' or 'striving to overcome inequalitiies,' blah, blah.
"..should be the work of all of us." No, we are not all all to blame, and such permissive socializing of guilt is pure SJW verbalage/garbage. God by contrast, treats every person according to their deeds. There is no spreading the wealth or guilt around.
Anonymous 6/16 @ 6:49,
"There is no spreading the wealth or guilt around." What a relief! That means the U.S. isn't responsible for killing millions of babies and condoning homosexuality - it's only the individuals who engage in such behavior. Also, it's good to know that God doesn't believe in equality - the ACOG's have always said that they were going to be the cream of the crop in the kingdom! And we all know that Gentiles will be lining up behind Israelites! It's also good to know that wealth always ends up in the hands of folks who deserve it!
Miller Jones
You, like Retired Prof, have a black belt in straw man arguments.
June 17, 2020 at 4:56 AM
You and I both noticed that.
6/17 Anonymities,
Extrapolation is a perfectly legitimate logical argument. The points I made are logical conclusions of your reasoning. You laid down the principles: "There is no spreading the wealth or guilt around" and "we are not all to blame...God...treats every person according to their deeds." OR Did you mean to say that these principles only apply to the particular circumstances which you cited? Sorry, no straw men were invented here.
Black lives matter to me, Lonnie. But, BLM is a fraud organization that funds ActBlue and etc. You don't need it nor does anyone else in order for any lives to matter to anybody else. It's a con and an attempt at consolidation of power over groups. George Soros has been denied entry into how many countries now? I'm trying to tell you something here. Think about this scenario for a second. If David Duke murdered Louis Farrakhan on video for the world to see, or vice versa, you would NOT be seeing all this chaos that we have seen over this false martyr George Floyd. Why? Because it's not actually about race relations. Black lives are nothing but human shields for an insurrection against Law and Order in America. We are being driven to a civil war if we don't wake up from this spell of delusion. It is Corruption that is the dark hand that is behind all of this and it is feverishly trying to circumvent the hammer of justice that is about to fall upon its head.
DBP
DBP June 18, 2020 at 1:06 PM
It does not matter to Miller. He is a liberal that cannot change his mind or think rationally. He cannot learn because he thinks but never learns from the exercise.
Consider his personal life. He is a homosexual who rejects his own homosexuality calling it sinful. What God has give him he has rejected. It is not a test of character to be such a way, it is the way he was programmed before he was born. It is said God does not give you what you cannot handle. In Millers case he rejects his calling and embraces a holy book as the replacement.
Miller is a contradiction of logic.
Anonymous 6/19 @ 1:06,
If it makes you feel better to label me a liberal, I'm OK with that label. However, you obviously know nothing about my personal life. I am a homosexual who embraces my orientation. I did not choose my orientation. I also do not believe in scriptural inerrancy. I am also a Christian who has been saved by the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I also accept science and experience as useful tools in evaluating beliefs and thinking. You may be confused, but it all makes perfect sense to me! Finally, there is a high probability that we both harbor erroneous ideas about many things - I'm open to evidence which contradicts my beliefs (I've changed/modified many of my beliers over the years), are you?
Just for fun, which George are you Miller Jones, or anyone else for that matter who cares to respond? Instead of Liberal or Conservative, let's have only 4 options.
You can only pick one.
I'm smoking even though I no longer smoke IRL.
DBP
DBP,
I'm probably a Libertarian George :) However, I again pause before the Left/Right designation. And I don't like choosing because there is a lot of space on the spectrum between the two extremes. Choosing between two extremes is representative of binary thinking. While some of us are very comfortable identifying ourselves or others with one extreme or the other (and many of us are easily placed there by others), I find that I have opinions which most folks would place in both camps. Likewise, I probably harbor some views that others would consider authoritarian. Finally, the "sweet spot" is almost always found somewhere between the two extremes (because no human or grouping of humans has a monopoly on the truth).
I'll be Boy George.
I'm a man without conviction
I'm a man who doesn't know
How to sell a contradiction
You come and go, you come and go
Karma, karma, karma, karma, karma chameleon
You come and go, you come and go
Loving would be easy if your colors were like my dreams
Red, gold, and green, red, gold, and green.
Nck
Here is what BLM is about. Destroy the police and take the country. This by the co-founder of the movement.
https://youtu.be/HgEUbSzOTZ8?t=69
WHAT IS YOUR OPINION NOW OF BLM Miller Jones?
Well Miller Jones, I'm glad to hear that you consider yourself an individualist. Having an open mind always gives the clearest view of the truth. As PT pointed out, BLM is just a convenient front with a supposed noble cause to draw in clueless sheep who will be used as innocent human shields. I will not hesitate to say that this is a gladio-type operation taking place against America. It is going to get worse. Was it the plan to have had Trump use troops against "peaceful protesters" so that "some people" would have called for a UN intervention?
DBP
Miller Jones, watch this short video. Listen closely and rewatch it. The issue of racism is being hijacked by domestic terrorists. There are hundreds of examples but I'm only sharing the shortest and to the point one. More well-meaning people are getting caught up in the hysteria and in the crossfire.
DBP
Painful Truth, the clip that you offered was a one minute and twenty-five second clip of a presumably longer interview with Patrisse Cullors - I tried in vain to find the full interview. I am open to viewing the full interview if you have a link. What you provided is inconsistent with other statements that Cullors, Garza and Tometi have made on the founding of BLM, so it would be instructive to have more of this interview or other statements by Cullors of a similar nature.
DBP, the clip that you provided proves that a handful of bad actors have attempted to hijack these protests. It demonstrated quite definitively that the vast majority of protesters present during the burning of the police car were peaceful and completely oblivious to the actions of this team of instigators. Unfortunately, there are always people with nefarious motives on both extremes who are ready and willing to try to exploit any "opportunity" that presents itself to further their own agendas. It is the responsibility of everyone who is interested in this topic to make sure that these elements do not succeed.
And then there was silence. Tells me there is a agenda here.
https://youtu.be/HgEUbSzOTZ8
Miller Jones, so far the evidence has only shown the extreme left causing chaos. Piles of bricks left out, breaking windows, giving out gas in water bottles, etc.
DBP
DBP,
I'm catching up, here.
I've only seen the previous comment which says,
"so far the evidence has only shown the extreme left causing chaos. Piles of bricks left out..."
Thankfully, I know enough to realize that the "Piles of bricks left out.." is BS fake news that's been debunked, and it's white supremacists who are trying to turn peaceful BLM protests to violence.
June 22, 2020 at 8:31 AM
"Piles of bricks left out.." is BS fake news that's been debunked
Link please
Bricks
https://youtu.be/H4zwgheOQHA
And there is still silence. I want answers.
Miller Jones said, ""Piles of bricks left out.." is BS fake news that's been debunked"
Debunked by whom? Sources?
I loved what the people in Hong Kong did with the "bricks" conviently left out near their places of demonstration. They didn't fall fot it.
Apparently, only some Americans are as wise. Example 2
ANTIFA and others who wish to start a race war and compromise Law & Order in this country are behind this chaos.
DBP
DBP that is a excellent cache of facts. How will Jones dispute the facts? If you read his profile there is a website where everything on it is anti-trump. So to whoever asked if there is a agenda the answer is yes. He is a lefty.
Marcus.
DBP
I agree. But you should include the Manson inspired Atomwaffen Division and their ilk with their s. I. E. g e. bible and that hindu greek lady.
Then the picture is complete and lefg and right not so different anymore in shared goals.
Nck
Here's just a few more examples:
1
2
3
Just the tip of an iceberg.
Pertaining to debunked "brick staging", there has been some false info. No business would put their name on staged bricks, like Acme brick did for a real construction site. No police would deliver bricks in uniform, or while using a police crusier. They are removing the bricks from the scene, don't listen the Antifa dis-info videos. Here is a guy who has been trying to tell people how to tell the difference.
DBP
If Jones was a honest man he would reply here and admit he is wrong. But I doubt he will.
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