I reluctantly managed to slog through Part 3 of Dave Pack's long ago sermon on "The Truth
About the Races" Only during Pandemic unemployment would one do that.
To Dave's credit, the sermon was not overtly racist and please know I am neither an expert on racism, the origins of races or the genetics that got us there. What I do know is that it is not what Dave thinks and teaches nor the Bible the source of truth on this matter.
His point, at least at the end of Part 3 was that racism in RCG is wrong but so is interracial marriage and RCG will not condone it. I believe he encouraged that to be defined only as whites don't marry blacks or yellows. Yellows don't marry whites or blacks and Blacks don't marry whites or yellows. All shades in between are up for grabs and RCG doesn't have the time nor does Dave to "rule" on each and every case. I think it's just the kind of thing you know when you see it. Perhaps if you don't know it when you see it Dave or one of his ministers will bring it to your attention because they do.
Also, this is just an overview and impression as if I was sitting in the audience and not a scientific rebuttal though it is scientifically rebuttable for sure. I'm just not the one to do it. But I think we all know the basic drill and this has been Dave's truth for 50 years which he gets from the tale of Adam and Eve, Shem, Ham and Japheth and the myth of Noah as presented in the OT.
Dave also believes that language came from the Tower of Babel incident but this is plainly not the real explanation of what I am also not an expert in and that being the origin over 200,000 years of language development in the human adventure.
The Nutshell story from Dave
Personal disclaimer
By now you should know that personally I don't find the stories of Adam and Eve, talking serpents, the fall, the flood and Babel to be literally true and nothing but myth with meaning I suppose. These events did not literally take place in time and space as presented. They are neither the way humans showed up on the planet, who begat who to bring us to day or the origin of the races. For me, Dave's sermon is moot before it begins but now moving on....
Dave spends some time on who "The sons of God " were who "looked on the daughters of men that they were fair" he notes that "fair" means "white". It doesn't really. It means "beautiful" or "real hotties" so he messes up there right from the beginning but he needs it to mean "white" evidently. This is not a sermon about human hotties that the gods just couldn't resist.
Basically Adam and Eve had three kids, Cain, Abel and Seth. Seth went bad too so God had to destroy humankind. (Evidently God is incapable of reasoned counseling and communicating with his perfect creations that was all "very good" just a couple of chapters earlier).
This lead to the need for a cleansing and a worldwide flood would do it. Noah was found "perfect in his generations" Dave notes this means that Noah was "perfect in his engenderments" or basically he had racially pure kids and offspring. Evidently in the whole world, where Dave says before the flood there were probably "Billions" of humans already, Noah won the lottery in his perfect and pure genes. This is a man God can save along with his perfect family.
So off they go, build an Ark, Noah and wife, Shem, Ham , Japheth and their wives then saving their asses while others drown like rats clawing at the Ark as it drifted away. The other billions evidently had no clue what was happening or why. Of course the fact that other civilizations were up an running all around the world at the time of the "Flood" and suffered no glitches in continuity is a problem but not one to address here.
This is the part I like and was new truth to me. WCG taught that Shem was "white", Ham was "black" and Japheth was "yellow". How that could be with Noah, the dad, being perfect in his engenderments is not explained. Soooooo.....new idea. Shem, Ham and Japheth were all very white reflecting their dad's perfection in his children. I take it Noah was white or he'd have to be either black or yellow and that ain't gonna fly.
Shem really took a white woman in marriage. Ham really took a black woman and Japheth got stuck having to take a yellow woman in marriage I suppose. Where these three white, black and yellow women came from is not explained. If they were sisters, they would have been all lily white as was perfect Noah their perfect in his engenderments dad and brothers. So I got nothing on this one.
Graaaaaadually over time, the races formed and separated after the flood, God confused their languages and they all headed off in all directions to find their places in the sun because there was no sense being around those who you could not understand. Evidently white folk got a common white language, black a common black language and yellow got theirs.
All of this is nonsense of course but I assume it left the audience gyrating in their seats or at least it better have.
No, no, no!
Uh uh uh....
Don't even!
For some reason, Dave felt the need to remind the brethren that he had baptized lots of white , black, yellow, red and all shades in between people in his ministry. I'm sure in his mind, "more than anyone else in the entire history of the church", but that's just something I suspect he might think.
Dave, as I said, does end with a nice talk on how RCG is not racist and they all need to be careful not to be. BUT! Interracial Marriage will not be tolerated or allowed in the Restored Church of God and Dave hopes they got the point. A point which could have been made, oh...about an hour and twenty minutes ago in a this hour and twenty four minute fantasy about the origin of the races. We probably should use the term "Biracial" rather than Interracial these days.
Here is why humans have different skin colors.
(Culture and practices are a whole other topic)
45 comments:
Dave doesn't have every thing wrong. From the point of view of compatibility, it's wise to marry into the same or similar culture and religion.
Diversity of races is a blessing from God, so I don't agree with interracial marriage on this basis alone.
The Great Packster?! A racist?! No .... Never .... Ever ....
Scientists have know for a long long time that racial differences in mentality are as great or greater than the visible ones on the surface, like skin color. The problem is the whole issue has by whipped up to the level of hysterical taboo and everyone is virtue signalling. The truth is considered hate. Truth has become irrelevant. Virtue signalling is all that anyone seems to care about. So the churches get bashed because they are out of step with the flavor of the historical moment and their enemies couldn't be happier about it.
Scientists have known for a long long time that racial differences in mentality are as great or greater than the visible ones on the surface, like skin color.
Exactly! For example, try talking honestly about white fragility, and you will quickly see most whites become defensive and go into denial about this fundamental characteristic of their race.
A fair amount of white Americans have been very sheltered and insulated. That is never more apparent when COGs/cog folks talk about interracial marriage.
Some observations on this post:
1. RCG apparently departs from the old WCG on the issue of racial origins. Hoeh claimed that Shem, Ham and Japheth were all White. Shem married a White woman; Ham married a Black woman and Japheth married an Oriental woman. Shem's offspring were racially pure and the other two gave rise to a polyglot, polyracial horde of genetically mixed people.
2. An AC student showed me information used in marriage counseling in Pasadena that indicated that people of one quarter Japhetic ancestry or more could not marry into the White race. People of one eight Hamitic ancestry or more could not marry into the White race.
3. Noah was not pure in his generations. First, the Bible does not say that. It says that Noah had integrity among the people of living in the time of his generation. And Second, Noah was part Neanderthal like other Middle Eastern people. And, no, I cannot do a genetic test on Noah. Archaeogenetic findings make that unnecessary.
I think racial intermarriage places a great burden on the marriage couple. But so does differing religions, cultures and tastes in cuisine. It is interesting that Pack condemns racial intermarriage but does not give a reason why. My guess is that it involves the usual misunderstand of who the Canaanites are.
N.E.O. thinks "racial intermarriage places a great burden on the marriage couple."
Right. But the greatest burden in most marriages is that one spouse is a male and the other a female. Different hormonal influences, different household priorities, different recreational preferences, different life goals.
Yes Retired Prof
The Macedonian Generals really disaproved when Alexander the Great adopted Persian customs after conquering the known world. They loathed his effeminate colored clothing, the religious and political practices he adopted, everything really. So undemocratic.
Someone look up the meaning of "fair" please, I mean if my grandfather had "gay" parties, what else has changed since the 1600's?
Nck
"Archaeogenetic findings make that unnecessary."
Of course they do!
How convenient.?
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/neanderthal-man-never-existed-and-8-other-forgeries-rivka-levy
Anyone in the know if male in extreme conservative mormon split offs can marry 12 women at the same time of which 3 are of (any) color) but can only have children with the white ones.
I'm looking for some sort of compromise here!
What would Abraham do, or the Nephilites? I have denounced wanting to be an Egyptian pharaoh in the after life though. It wouldn't work between my sister and me.
A Hitite princess looking like Chloe Kardahsian perhaps, (I will forgive her for the mistaken place in the Forbes rankings.) but the K's are very mixed too I understand. I thought I found purity in the Icelander dottirs but the Vikings took many if not only Celtic women unto themselves.
Regarding race, I'll have to stick to Nascar.
nck
As if skin color is the only difference. More evolutionary hooey. Skin color is but one component of genetic makeup.
Genetics control all aspects of our bodies, right down to the circuitry of our brains.
My experience in reality is that when two people "click", bond, get it, are best friends, intellectually stimulate each other, physically attract each other and all the other subtleties of what makes two people attract in a romantic relationship, it's up to them and nothing in this world anyone can do about it nor maybe should not try. The more you push against it, the closer they become in most cases.
Back in the day when we were supposed to do "Pre-marriage Counseling" with couples, and no one I knew was all that qualified to do so, I got to where I asked the couple one final question. It kinda all hung on this one. "Do they Zing you?" If the couple smiled and said, "yeah..." then go in peace and best of everything to you. See you at the wedding. If they looked puzzled or didn't understand the question, "Go home and think more about this." But if you insist, see you at the wedding.
ETHICS QUESTION TIME:
Which then is worse by COG standards...
Interracial heterosexual relationship, or Same Race Homosexual relationship?
Inquiring minds need to know!
Tonto
AC was a cesspool with Assyrian men marrying zebulonite women. One ephraimite ucg leader married a rubenite lass. Manasseites being half egyptisn themselves finding out Tirasian ancestors.
Therefore ny solution is the only and perfect one. Men should like Abraham be able to marry more than 5 wives and only have children with the same racians and if they like race so much they should get tickets for Nascar.
Hello grandma, I'd like you to meet the Inuit twins I married. Thats nice grandson, I'd wished they'd shaved.
Nck
I don't see how any of it matters anymore anyway. Even the OT indicates interracial marriages. King David and Solomon had how many wives, I'm sure that they weren't all Israelite either. Solomon's definitely weren't, he saw them, he liked them and then he had them. God apparently didn't have a problem with it even though He said they weren't to collect horses, women or gold. Doesn't seemed to have stopped any of them, so why such a fuss in our day and age?
Dennis - maybe humans deficient in pigment had to migrate north because they could not handle the heat.
Are there any studies you have seen that research humanity's earliest skin colors?
I am thinking maybe they were very dark since humans started in Africa.
The reason it still matters is that it is still being taught in some COGs and elsewhere, and it still affects how people who are supposed to be part of the body of Christ treat and relate to each other. Rules prohibiting interracial marriage were made up, and scriptures were cherry picked and twisted, while other scriptures were ignored in an effort to justify these rules. Biblical language was then applied to mask what was really going on. White American Christians were deemed to be "Israelite", while those of other ethnicities were deemed to be "Gentiles", and it was taught that the Bible forbid these two classes of people from mixing by marriage. This reasoning was not only used to prohibit interracial dating and marriage, but in some cases even social fellowship. The main people affected by this being black and Latino Americans.
Where these rules became tricky to enforce though was when it was pointed out that some people who had been deemed to be Gentile by the church were also white skinned. It was then decided that these "Gentiles" were permitted to freely mix and marry within the church while the others couldn't which not only displayed a double standard, but also exposed the rule for what it was. It was an attempt to protect the "pure white race". So, this wasn't simply a matter of "Jewish" Christians not being permitted to mix with "Gentile" Christians. At it's core, this was very clearly a racial issue. Not only was this a gross misrepresentation of what the Bible actually says, but it was also spiritually abusive, and divisive between brethren, which is a stench in the nostrils of heaven!
For reference see the 1958 Herman Hoeh article "Who May Attend Our Schools?" https://www.hwalibrary.com/cgi-bin/download/viewitem.cgi?PageNo=#Page=7
A more recent example of this was an incident that took place several years ago at a COG summer camp. The leaders of the camp decided they were going to institute a rule that white campers were not allowed to dance with campers of other races who were in attendance. The reason given was that dancing could be thought of as a precursor to dating, and these leaders didn't want to encourage interracial dating among the young people of their church. The young people however, were smart enough to know that this was immoral and unfair, and were having none of it. They came back to the leaders and told them that if that was the rule, they would not attend the dance. Because of push back from the young people, the leaders backed off, and the dance proceeded as scheduled. If these young people had just meekly gone along with their elders and not pushed back, a rule would have been instituted at that camp that would have tainted the fellowship of the young people for years to come.
This is why this stuff matters. This is why it must still be discussed. This is why we cannot just blindly follow human religious leaders without examining their teachings. We cannot pay lip service to someone being a brother or sister in Christ and not follow through with how we treat each other. We cannot pay lip service to being part of one body, but continue to treat others as if they are artificial limbs, or appendages that don't really count, exposing our own hypocrisy in the process. This is not just some spiritual platitude or intellectual exercise that doesn't apply in our human interactions with each other. If God accepts someone and deems them to be the seed of Abraham and belonging to Him, then He will not take kindly to those who mistreat that person,or try to keep them somehow "separate but equal" whomever they may be. And if God won't have it, we shouldn't either.
Concerned Sister
Anonymous said...
Dennis - maybe humans deficient in pigment had to migrate north because they could not handle the heat.
Are there any studies you have seen that research humanity's earliest skin colors?
I am thinking maybe they were very dark since humans started in Africa.
That would not be the evidence though a person not a whole people might suffer that it would not affect color issues. Color of skin is purely a function of sun exposure in the Tropics and Africa and melanin output as the video shows. The further north people migrate, over time, they lighten up so as to let more sunlight in for vitamin D production which is critical to growth and bone repair.
There is no God making one people on color and another yet another. That's like practicing astrology because the culture is looking at the sky but hasn't figured out yet what astronomy teaches or will teach in the future. Alchemy became chemistry in the same evolution of understanding . Phrenology probably became neurology and psychology for all I know too.
Humanities earliest skin colors were dark and black. That's where humanity originated. Africa. That would be their skin color. The Scandinavian people did not begin in Africa blonde and white.! Others came later in the migration of both humans and melanin reduction to provide more sunlight to the body and all associated benefits.
What does the term "race" mean? It means one thing in a WCG splinter group and something entirely different to a geneticist. The splinter group definition is based on Herman Hoeh's interpretation of the Genesis 10 Table of Nations. Human genetics does not reflect that table. Both the Russians and Eastern Germans are haplogroup R1a. Yet Hoeh classifies them as two different races, one Japhetic and the other Semitic. Yet, Russians and Germans can intermarry, as far as I know, without push-back from Armstrongist ministers.
What dead reckoning do Armstrongists minister use to make decisions about interracial marriage. Physical appearance seems to trump Hoeh's racial science predicated on his Biblical interpretation. And, of course, genetics, the real science of races, plays no role in Armstrongist decisions like this I would guess. It is more than a little confusing.
Another naïve notion that seems to afflict Armstrongism is the belief that Europeans, in their various nations, are pure people. But geneticists have discovered that Europeans from Russia to Ireland are an ancient amalagam of three different races: haplogroup I Early Hunter-Gatherers, haplogroup G Early Agriculturalists and haplogroup R Steppe Pastoralists. To this stew add a dash of Neanderthal and maybe a dash of Denisovan. There are other incursions. There are Brits that carry haplogroups of African origin imported by Roman Legions into Britain.
One cannot develop a policy for racial intermarriage without knowing what a race actually is.
What happened to Byker Bob? I haven't seen any of his comments lately.
I find this race discussion is treating the effect than the cause. A basic Godly principle espoused by God's servant of the last century is to treat the cause and not the effect. Have we all forgotten the Plain Truth's "cause and effect" seen in so many of this world's problems? Just to bring you all back to the simplicity of Christ: Just marry among your Shem, Ham and Japheth groups. Whites marry whites, Blacks marry Blacks and Yellow marry Yellow. God says so. End of carnal human nature problem.
The Bible doesn't use the word "race" to refer to human beings. People are referred to as individuals, by family or tribe, or by nation. In the Old Testament those people descended from the sons of Jacob were called by the collective name of Israel, with various tribes within that collective group being represented by the names of the sons. All others were considered Gentiles regardless of skin color, or other physical features.
Just because you weren't born into the family of Israel though, didn't mean that you couldn't join the family of Israel. If a foreigner wanted to live among Israel, and keep the Passover, all the males of the household were to be circumcised. The foreigner was then allowed to keep the Passover and worship Israel's God, and the Israelites were told to consider these people the same as if they were native born. The same laws applied, and they even received an inheritance among the tribes. Exodus 12:48-49;Leviticus 19:33-34;Numbers 15:14-16;Ezekiel 47:21-23 There is also ample evidence that these foreigners were freely allowed to marry among Israel once they became part of the nation. Rahab, Ruth, Moses's Ethiopian wife, Bathsheba's first husband Uriah the Hittite, are all examples of this.
In the New Testament the rules change a little bit. People are defined by whether or not they accept Jesus Christ. They are baptized and become members of His body. Once a person, any person regardless of nationality or background accepts Christ he or she is considered by God to be the seed of Abraham, and heirs of the promise. Galatians 3:29 The Sadducees and Pharisees were even warned not to boast of their human ancestry, and told that God could raise up children for Abraham from stones. Matthew 3:7-9 Some in the COGs have done nothing but boast about the physical lineage they think they come from, and have used that lineage to differentiate between themselves and other Christians, even when God has told them to accept these other Christians and love them as native born, with the same standards applying to all. There is no separate but equal if you are all part of the same body.
There is nothing anywhere in the Old or New Testament that prohibits those accepted by God from marrying each other, regardless of previous nationality or what we today call race. There is nothing that says a Gentile cannot freely mix with and marry an Israelite once they accept Jesus Christ, and in fact Old Testament practice and instruction would imply the exact opposite.
Skin tone is much like eye color, hair color, etc. It is passed down through genetics, and is a product of how much of a chemical called melanin is produced within the skin cells. That is all it is. No more, no less. It can also be affected by sunlight. The more exposure to the sun, the more melanin is produced, making the skin turn a darker shade. The darker skin provides the person more protection from the sun's rays. If we want to view humans by race, or kind as we might find in the Bible, then we would have to say we are all of the same kind, or race... the human race. Acts 17:26-28
Concerned Sister
I just got aware of an argument between the writer of Harry Potter and the main actor in the movies based on the books.
The writer argues that if there would be no "sexes" as in transgender, then by definition there would be no "same sex attraction", which would rob people (like gays or women) to discuss their experiences in a meaningful manner.
Regarding the often returning topic on races, I was thinking.
If there would be no "races" and all humanity would over a 200 year period turn brownish, moccaish with a hint of yellowish, how would humanity than look at "our current troubles."
My guess is, it would still be the same based on outer apparel based on class/economic distinction, perhaps even worse if Elon Musk by that time has not discovered Alien life.
I do not believe for a minute God intervened in ancient times to prevent the existence of moccaish, Irish, Dutch, American, Armenian, blackish people like the Kardashians, I mean the original Goddess had a fairly large bottom too.
nck
"God's servant of the last century"
Bullshit!!!!!!!!!
NEO have you never watched NASCAR? That's a race!
Concerned Sister
This time you are dead wrong. Different races don't just differ in skin color, but in genetic behavioral traits. The Bibles "be equally yoked" means stay within your race, culture and even class. All sorts of problems arise otherwise.
Let's look at what the actual scripture about being "unequally yoked" has to say...
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership can righteousness have with wickedness? Or what fellowship does light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? 2Corinthians 6:14-15
Many have used the above to try and make an argument against marriage between Christians from different racial or ethnic backgrounds, but a close reading of the scripture demonstrates that this was not Paul's issue. He was specifically speaking of righteousness and wickedness, light and darkness. Unless you are prepared to make the leap that all Christians of one race, culture, or class are inherently wicked, even though they have accepted Christ and Christ claims them as His, and all Christians of another race, culture, or class are inherently righteous regardless of what their behavior actually betrays, then an argument against interracial marriage based on this scripture falls apart.
I have personally known of multiple marriages between people from different racial or cultural backgrounds that were what I would consider Godly marriages, in that both partners treated the other as they themselves would want to be treated, both cared for and showed respect toward the other, and both practiced Christian principles within their marriage and family. I have also known multiple marriages between people who married within their race, culture, class, etc. that were miserable and full of sin and strife. Adultery, domestic abuse, porn addiction, alcoholism, etc. will ruin any marriage.
While cultural differences between a couple should be discussed and considered, it does not automatically make that marriage doomed. Whatever cultural behaviors we might have "inherited" or witnessed growing up, are supposed to be changed and put in check as we bring our hearts and minds more in line with the mind of Christ. A person who grows up with an abusive or alcoholic parent has much to overcome in learning to relate to others in a healthy way. That doesn't mean it can't be done. The concept that I have tried to demonstrate was that the guiding principle found in scripture was that both parties worship the same God. Foreigners were to be welcomed into Israel and treated like family when they adopted the religious practices of Israel. "Your people shall be my people, and your God my God." Ruth was a Gentile from Moab, who adopted the God of her mother in law, married an Israelite named Boaz, and became the great grandmother of King David. If you want to argue for racial purity, then we should reject anything the Bible has to say about King David because his line of ancestry was not racially pure. Neither for that matter was Jesus Christ's. Rahab and Ruth are both specifically mentioned in the genealogy of Christ. Matthew 1:5-6 Both were considered Gentiles. It is a rare phenomenon that women were actually recorded because when you read the Bible, most genealogical records simply record the men. But the names of these women have been recorded for anyone who cares to read. It's also interesting that while the names of two Gentiles were recorded, the names of other women were left out. Sarah, Rebecca, and Leah were also ancestors of Christ, but did not get mentioned specifically in His genealogy. Make of that what you will.
I understand what most people growing up in the COGs have been conditioned to believe about this issue. But the justification for such beliefs break down when you actually pay attention to what the scriptures say, and you look at the examples given.
Concerned Sister
Concerned Sister
I suggest you re read 2Cor6:14-15. Notice the words partnership, fellowship, harmony. have in common. So the core issue is compatibility. This is discernable when people immigrate to America. They go live in suburbs populated by their own nationality, even to enclaves from their own cities. This is normal behavior. People can be happily married to a person of a different race, but I believe they would be happier still if they shopped around and married within their own race. And by race I mean Africans, Asians, White people etc. I doubt Ruth would have gone to live in Israel if it was significantly racially and culturally different to her country.
God created different races as a blessing to mankind. Since people are often anti God, there is the drive to obliterate these different races through inter racial marriage. I see this as a negative.
You conveniently left out the example of Nehemiah, who got very forceful when he discovered that his race was marrying the surrounding gentiles.
How far apart can people be culturally and politially in a marriage considering George and Kellyanne Conway?
Nck
Well written Anon 10:03. Why is mixed marriages being pushed so much ? Instead of freedom to marry whoever being pushed ? Notice the subtle difference? Why?
The is a not so hidden agenda to have multi racial marriages within the Church. Even when "ear marked" people are ALREADY married to others. I kid you not.
Ones who have left the Church scene years ago would be shocked as to how the so called modern liberal leaders still like to plan other people's lives out. Perceiving brethren as idiots who are machines they can manipulate. Even to the point of controlling marriages.
"People are defined by whether or not they accept Jesus Christ."
you missed it there, sister....one does not "accept Jesus", one must respond to the calling of the Father....until the Father calls, nothing can happen... once called, one must respond to that calling, doing as He instructs.
"accepting Jesus" is so Protestant....
some will say it's just semantics, but words mean things...(politicians are masters of subtlety in the word game)
RE: "I doubt Ruth would have gone to live in Israel if it was significantly racially and culturally different to her country."
Anyone in the know where Joseph and Mary went in Egypt after the Herod massacre?
As soon as jews became secular they moved out of the ghettos.
The jewish bankers at the Vienna Ringstrasse got annoyed with the fuss caused by the refugee jews in the parks in Vienna, who had fled "from beyond the russian pale", because they were destitute and this did not reflect well on their new found status within the Hapsburg empire.
Ah well, races. I remember the times when italians and spanish were frowned upon. I've often quoted the Ellis Island immigration quota for those peoples from catholic nations.
Charleston harbor did not have these quota. It is that harbor where the ancestors of 30 percent of american people of color landed.
nck
anon 5:22
Acceptance of Christ means accepting His sacrifice and His being your Lord:
"Since you have accepted Christ Jesus as Lord, live in union with him. Keep your roots deep in him, build your lives on him, and become stronger in your faith, as you were taught. And be filled with thanksgiving." (Colossians 2:6-7)
Concerned Sister missed nothing. She is spot on! You haven't a clue!
I stood in Charleston Harbor a few years back trying to imagine the sights and sounds that once transpired there. (I have done the same at Annapolis.)
Also visited the site of the Igbo mass drowning late at night. I did not hear/see the purported ghosts, but the history of the place is enough.
I stood in Charleston Harbor a few years back trying to imagine the sights and sounds that once transpired there. (I have done the same at Annapolis.)
Also visited the site of the Igbo mass drowning late at night. I did not hear/see the purported ghosts, but the history of the place is enough.
I do wish all you people telling us about the caution of such relationships were around when the J haplogroup entered into my ancestral line.
You might RSK.
But your ancestor might have wielded the Scimitar at any bystanders.
Perhaps that frankish maiden found that literate scarred poetic moorish warrior type somewhat exotic and exciting.
Perhaps my imagination is in overdrive and I should apologize for my romanticism.
Nck
RSK
Amazon is currently translating a short story on Juliette and Leon Herkenrath.
https://nl.findagrave.com/memorial/13016086/juliette-lousia-herckenrath
Friends tell me it's a fascinating personal history.
Nck
You might not be far off about the scimitar, since the most populated country today to which I bear a genetic haplogroup resemblance is Ingush. :)
Ingush?
Then I wasn't far off with the french maiden also.
I mean the Alan tribes moved into both the Ingush territory (1500 BC Scythians) and France (405 AD) many a year ago, thus the origin of the name Alain or Allan.
But I was referring to 800 AD period with the invasions from north africa. Ah well the wanderings of the dna.
nck
Funny you mention that nck, bc om the autosomal level Ive got a pretty significant percentage of north African, as well as Khoisan and Bantu. Apparently I am the melting pot, lol.
We got him! :-) :-)
www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/02/12/science/west-africa-ancient-humans.amp.html
Nck
I'm CB from Detroit. Yes, I am Black myself. Doesn't Acts 17:25 say we are all one blood?
In God's eyes we are all "mankind". That is the "race" we all belong to. When God made His promise to Abraham, He did not specify any one race or color that would be in His kingdom.
I leave you with this verse from Revelation 7:9-10.
9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,
Just make sure you are in that Multitude, my Beloved.
Carl--Detroit, Mi.
Carl, agreed. Abraham was also told that through his offspring all nations would be blessed. Genesis 12:2-3;Genesis 22:18 This part seems to get lost in the shuffle when listening to some in the COGs extol the blessings of Ephraim and Manasseh.
In the end it won't matter if your skin color is black, white, yellow, red, green or polka dotted. God looks at the heart, It is what He finds there that determines whether He counts you as His or not.
to Carl, Sandman and Concerned Sister:
Agree with all of you. There is not difference to God, what color you are or what color of eyes, you have. This is important maybe for some humans, that followed Mr. Armstrong on his theories and maybe belong to the splinters. God look at the heart of the person, not the physical part. The other gentlemen were too much into the physical part. You need to look at your heart and not, if you are white, blue or green. God doesn't care, shall you?
Concerned brother
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