One of the hallmarks of cults is its extreme desire to control every aspect of its followers lives. Much of the time this includes how people are to dress in the presence of the Dear Leader. Armstrongism has had a convoluted history of doing this over the decades. The pendulum has swung in both directions over the decades, much to the chagrin of fundamentalists in the various groups. When leaders crack down the fundamentalists celebrate and then when it swings the other way there are laments of liberalism creeping in. And then, If you were Rod Merdith, it was always those pesky homosexuals who were leading church men astray.
Who can forget Meredith's tirades about mens shirts and dress socks during the 1950's, 60's, and 70's. Only homosexual men wore black socks with their suits. Real he-men (like Rod Meredith) wore white socks anytime they wore a suit. God forbid if a man wore a pink shirt! Oy vey! He was ranting one time in the early 1970's about men wearing pink Izod shirts to class. Again, if was those pesky homosexuals who were leading men to wear pink. The class was so disgusted by Meredith's words that everyone wore pink shirts to the next class.
Yet, here we are in 2021 and we still have splinter cult leaders in the Church of God who are telling their men what to wear. Dave Pack has all the men at his HQ in white shirts and power ties. Look at any picture of his staff and followers and there will be no men wearing a shirt of any other color. Recent Feast films of Dave's cult has his men all walking in the hot Ohio outdoor sun, in their long sleeve white dress shirts and manly ties, to look at Dave's trees and gardens.
Dont forget the women either. If COG leaders had their way all women in the church would be in mid calf length dresses with long sleeves and high necklines on their dresses. Some COG leaders would not even allow women to wear jewelry if they could get by with it. We already have men telling women to not wear make-up or color their hair. Mansplaining has always been the hallmark fo the COG when it comes to women.
Like most things in Armstrongism, it has the ability to major in minors and ignore the important things in life and with God.
From Exit and Support Network:July 30, 2021
One of the traits of a cult is controlling everything in the person’s life. This is the reason people who leave have a lot of trouble making their own decisions, because they have been treated as children. In the July 23 Friday Philadelphian men were reminded of the ruling about white shirts as it says: “Reminder: Pastor General Gerald Flurry has said that men should wear white shirts to Sabbath and holy day services. A full suit is also preferred.” Preferred means you better do it.
I found an article written by Gareth Fraser (November 16, 2018), “God’s Character in Your Clothing” and in it he says: “The way we present ourselves on the outside reveals much about our character on the inside.” He talks about the “Philadelphian Standard” and reiterates how Herbert Armstrong wrote an article, “The Way We Dress Could Keep Us Out of God’s Kingdom.”
This is why GF is telling the men (and women) how to dress. In a cult everything is regulated and spelled out. This is the opposite of freedom. –[name withheld]
48 comments:
Oh great. I can't wait for Rob Petry and the so-called True Christian to tell us just how things must be. They are like broken records.
Pack does the same thing, my housemate has to have his uniform on before he heads to church. Don't you dare show up without the proper uniform.
Really?
Many vast companies required their reps to wear suits, white shirts, ties, shined shoes, etc. Why? Well, for one thing, reputation.
Were/are they cults? Don’t think so. This practice of no suits, and sloppy looks seems to have started when the internet companies grew into monsters.
Besides, do you even know the psychological reason so many throw the word “cult” around so much? Like is done here? I didn’t think so. One psychologist years ago explained it had a connection to how we pronounce words. The person stuck on that word says one thing but on a sub conscious level hears a different word.
The human mind is very deceptive.
Exactly you got to comply with your ministers and respect their authority.
So when the multitudes flocked to hear Jesus preach were they all wearing their “Sunday best” like Americans in the 1950s, which seems to be the litmus test for ACOGs ever since of what should and shouldn’t be worn in “church?”
We SHOULD make sure we DRESS the RIGHT WAY, so WE COULD BE in GOD'S GREAT KINGDOM! Thankfully, David C. Pack is TELLING US HOW!!
LOL TC! No one and I repeat NO ONE wants to be in Dave's so called kingdom. Just imagine the hell hole that mess would be!
Let's not forget that you must never wear sandals!! If Christ and the original apostles were to show up for services today, they would not be allowed to enter! And, ladies...remember, no peep-toed shoes, as "the men" might be distracted by your disgraceful way of dress!
Double living hypocrites.
cult is simply short for culture....and dress can be part of a culture...
that being said, I doubt that 1950's era business dress is THE biblical standard for all times...
in Jesus' day, the average person had 1 or 2 garments to their name...."church clothes" were not a thing.
I personally don't have a problem with what anyone wears as long as it's clean...."modest" is somewhat subjective, but I don't think gym workout attire would be proper for worship services.....just use common sense....this is how our organization approaches things.
....don't really expect the likes of Pack, Flurry, et al to think this way....
You really do sound like a sockpuppet now.
Then there was the time "Lord Minister Almighty" (Cecil Maranville) had a hissy fit after men took off their suit jackets at Passover prior to the footwashing portion of the service. All of the shirts were white, but he was incensed regardless.
I remember one minister saying that wearing a "paisley tie" was wrong, because it was symbolic of sperm.
Splinterists believe wacky stuff. At one time their ideas were of high interest value in the inforation market place but now the market for wacky has gone into steep decline. It's because so many have gotten into the business of proliferating wacky. This is what you now find:
"In our country today, a considerable minority of our fellow citizens believe that the 2020 election was stolen in plain sight by left-wing mathematicians in Venezuela who devised algorithms to rig voting machines to overturn a landslide Republican victory and elect a senile Democrat and his communistic base to run the government who want to confiscate your guns and make everyone ride bicycles and live on tofu and kale and who invented a fake Chinese influenza so they could force immunization with a vaccine that makes people passive and accepting of state control, which allows vampires to move freely and drink the blood of small children, but in August, when the rightful president is reinstated and our borders are secure, we can breathe freely again and make America great." - Garrison Keillor
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Instead of Putting On The Ritz, they're trying to put on Gerald and Dave! Super Dooper!
Tell me you're in a cult without saying you're in a cult.
I can only wear white shirts and suits are recommended.
Those with eyes to see and hears to hear. Get out!
Anon 2:25AM is so blinded that he doesn't see the obvious. If Christ and his apostles returned today, they would buy nice Brooks Brothers suits and dress shirts before showing up at Sabbath services. Maybe Men's Wearhouse, but definitely not some Walmart crap. Jesus didn't show up for Judean Sabbath services wearing Egyptian or Chinese clothes, he wore what the people around him wore. That's what he would do today.
And he would definitely groom his beard nicely, unlike grungy old Gerald Flurry.
"Then there was the time "Lord Minister Almighty" (Cecil Maranville) had a hissy fit after men took off their suit jackets at Passover prior to the footwashing portion of the service. All of the shirts were white, but he was incensed regardless."
imagine if they had done as Jesus did..... ;-)
"Colored Men's Dress Shirts"?
This is a confusing title. PCG apparently thinks colored men won't be in the kingdom unless they wear white dress shirts?
Let it be known that a quick online search shows that Barack Obama and Denzel Washington wear MUCH NICER dress shirts than anything I've seen Gerald Flurry wearing.
James 2:1-7
2 My brothers and sisters, practice your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ by not favoring one person over another. 2 For example, two men come to your worship service. One man is wearing gold rings and fine clothes; the other man, who is poor, is wearing shabby clothes. 3 Suppose you give special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say to him, “Please have a seat.” But you say to the poor man, “Stand over there,” or “Sit on the floor at my feet.” 4 Aren’t you discriminating against people and using a corrupt standard to make judgments?
5 Listen, my dear brothers and sisters! Didn’t God choose poor people in the world to become rich in faith and to receive the kingdom that he promised to those who love him? 6 Yet, you show no respect to poor people. Don’t rich people oppress you and drag you into court? 7 Don’t they curse the good name ⌞of Jesus⌟, the name that was used to bless you?
My sabbath attire is a nice pair of jeans with a nice designer t-shirt. If I want to dress up I wear a Nautica or Tommy Bahama polo shirt. I have not had any complaints. Also I prefer a casual slip on shoe. Last time I wore a suit and tie was to a funeral about 6-8 years ago. Why do people worry what others think. I don’t need someone to tell me what I can and cannot wear.
Jim-AZ
When the leadership says that something is "preferred" it means it is required. It is much like the military. When the commander asks you to do something, it is understood to be an order. "So Captain, I see you were told to take on this assignment." "No, I was voluntold to do it."
Control of many aspects of their lives is a good thing for those who are insecure, who can't decide things for themselves. They need someone to be their parent figure. Everyone benefits: the narcissist leader who is the control freak and the dependent personality type who seeks the security of this arrangement. One problem is neither of the parties matures into adulthood.
When the leadership says that something is "preferred" it means it is required. It is much like the military. When the commander asks you to do something, it is understood to be an order. "So Captain, I see you were told to take on this assignment." "No, I was voluntold to do it."
Control of many aspects of their lives is a good thing for those who are insecure, who can't decide things for themselves. They need someone to be their parent figure. Everyone benefits: the narcissist leader who is the control freak and the dependent personality type who seeks the security of this arrangement. One problem is neither of the parties matures into adulthood.
Most of the COGs still have dress codes or standards in place for their services, though others might not take it to the exacting extremes as those in Pack's or Flurry's group. Men still wear ties and jackets, though you will occasionally see the odd sweater or open collar, and most women still wear skirts and dresses, though some women wear pants on occasion, and some of the groups have modified their dress codes to allow for this. These things can also be observed however in other religious denominations, with some even prescribing what one can or can't wear at home. For instance, some in the Pentecostal movement encourage or require women to wear skirts and dresses at all times, and also have rules on hair length, etc.
I have nothing against wearing ties, jackets, skirts, etc. to services per se. The problem comes in when we make these things a matter of "doctrine" and as demonstrated in some of the more extreme groups, a matter of salvation. For instance some of the COGS (not all) required their congregants to wear dress clothes at home when they were streaming messages in most areas during the lock downs last year due to COVID. So, all these people were sitting in their own living rooms, on their own sofas, in full "Sabbath dress" complete with ties,jackets, etc. The reasoning for this being that you are still "appearing before God" and that while you are streaming a service, it is "holy time."
My question to the groups that required this would be that if "appearing before God" only happens when we are present or at least tuned into an official COG service, what happens when we pray to God or study the Bible at home during the week? Does that not count as appearing before God, per Hebrews 4:15-16, and other scriptures? And if so, in order to be consistent, why does God not require us to don our suits, ties, and skirts, during those times? Will He still listen if I am praying to Him alone in my morning PJs, or what about my jeans before an evening meal with my family? Also, while I continue to be a Sabbath keeper, and regard the Sabbath as "holy," that would be true of the entire day, and not just during the time we are present at or listening to a service, so again in order to be consistent, why don't we don our "Sabbath best" at sunset on Friday and wear it till the Sabbath ends on Saturday evening? Or are we to view the time we spend in services somehow as "extra holy" and if so, what is the Biblical reasoning behind this idea? And while I wouldn't view PJs as appropriate wear in gathering with other Christians on the Sabbath, this would be true whether I am gathering as part of a religious assembly, or going to a friends home for dinner, and has little to do with whether I am appearing before God.
As someone above pointed out, there are scriptures that specifically warn against us treating a brother or sister differently based on whether they are wearing expensive clothing or shabby clothing when we are together. This would have been especially relevant in early Christian congregations when you might have had slaves or very poor people meeting with those who were more well off, and had access to more expensive clothing, jewelry, etc. while the slaves or poor might have had only the clothes they were wearing, or at least didn't have access to what we would consider "Sabbath dress." So, how do we reconcile some of the stringent dress requirements of our day with these scriptures?
People dressing up in their "Sunday best" or "Sabbath best" frankly is more of a cultural custom than a Biblical mandate. And certain scriptures applied in isolation could lead us to conclude that all Christians should be wearing camel hair and leather belts, per John the Baptist, or maybe we should all remove our shoes when praying, since Moses was told to take his sandals off while standing on "holy ground."
Concerned Sister
I might show up at services wearing a toga or robe, and sandals on my feet and see what they think...
So, how do we reconcile some of the stringent dress requirements of our day with these scriptures?
Younger people often forget the origins of Herbert Armstrong's movement. He originally taught very plainly that the Americans and British were the modern Manasseh and Ephraim, which made them modern Israelites and the recipients of God's blessings to those tribes.
Consistent with their blessings, it made perfect sense in that context to demonstrate those blessings, and to show gratitude and honor to the God who gave those blessings, by dressing well at Sabbath services. This also fanned the ego of HWA, who was much happier speaking to a room full of suits and nice dresses than to a room full of denim and cheap polyester.
I remember a worldwide jackass(bill cowan) on an anti rock music sermon playing clips of rock & roll music on one in which he stated the artist (Ted Nugent) was a homosexual. Ted Nugent happened to be in a local alabama hunting goods store a few years later. After meeting Ted Nugent it pointed out to me how the bogus ministers would spout out 100% false lies with no regard for their veracity to be truth. I have no doubt if Nugent had heard what cowan said about him he would have curb stomped his frizzy head into the concrete.
I remember a worldwide jackass(bill cowan) on an anti rock music sermon playing clips of rock & roll music on one in which he stated the artist (Ted Nugent) was a homosexual.
Considering the number of closet cases and effeminate fairies in WCG top management, Cowan's judgment of Nugent is particularly ironic.
Concerned Sister wrote "The problem comes in when we make these things a matter of "doctrine" and as demonstrated in some of the more extreme groups, a matter of salvation."
My reaction to this clothing issue was mellow before I saw this statement. All denominations seem to have clubbish peculiarities - outward symbols of belonging. Like Ralph Kramden wearing a raccoon hat as a member in good standing of The Raccoon Lodge. Why should this be disallowed in certain pockets of Splinterdom. It seemed draconian to criticize their social rituals. Even the idea that it might be cultic is not really that alarming. Clothing is small potatoes compared with a blatantly errant theology. I recall from my reading the Millerites in 1844 all clad in white waiting for the Parousia (apparently, this was intended to streamline the wardrobe transition problem associated with entry into heaven).
But to make a certain clothing style a requirement for salvation is alarming. You may as well leave any pretense of Christianity and join the first century Circumcision Party. Proclaim yourself a Galatianist and make war on the Apostle Paul. I have noticed that Armstrongism regards the process of salvation as defined in the Bible as something that is plastic. Conditions may be added and, presumably, taken away at will. They end up with an overloaded process of salvation that contravenes the Jerusalem Council's clear mandate for simplicity and truth.
I haven't worn a dress shirt since 2011.
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Neo wrote " But to make a certain clothing style a requirement for salvation is alarming." Yes I agree with you that certain clothing is not a requirement for salvation but you should still wear the best you have and can afford remember it is God's Sabbath day which you must keep holy.
Can you guess which cult?
Women can only wear thongs the bedroom.
Strapless clothing not permitted.
Straps must be a minimum of 2cm wide.
Heals must not be any higher than 3 1/2inches.
Yoga pants are not permitted in any situation. (Unless you wear shorts over top.
No two piece swim suits and if you do it must be sewn together.
No button fly pants, that draws attention to a certain area.
Skirts below knees.
No hair extensions permitted.
No clear lip gloss as that is in the same spirit as colored.
No tank tops allowed at any activity during the Feast.
Panty line must not cut the cheek in half.
Panty line must not be seen.
A bra must be worn at all times.
No fancy cowboy boots permitted at services.
No more than 2 piecing in an ear.
Cover up on a blemish is ok but on a face with no blemishes not OK.
No make up.
No hair dye. However they typically only enforce that if you cause them problems.
Your choice of clothing must not be too trendy.
No flip flop sandals during services.
White dress only shirts during services .
I know there are a few I’m forgetting.
Oh? And what happens when someone doesnt wear the best they have?
@ 1:25PM, you aren't talking about LCG, as there are evangelists and their wives who violate at least 7 of your items, as well as many lower rank ministers who do also.
RSK if you don't wear the best you then you shouldn't come to services.
An article entitled, How You Dress for Church- Could it Keep You Out of the Kingdom? by HWA appeared in the January 30,1984 edition of the Worldwide News, as well as the May 21, 1979 edition. In the article he chided brethren for wearing sloppy, unkempt clothing to services, such as jeans, overalls, tennis shoes, etc. He also asserted that because Jesus gave an example in a parable about someone without a proper wedding garment being cast out of the Kingdom, He cares about what people wear to services, because what we wear in "COMING INTO THE VERY PRESENCE OF GOD" reflects our respect for Him and by implication our own righteousness. He pointed out that he set an example in what he wore, and made mention of himself wearing a pressed suit, white shirt, and an appropriate neck tie. He also talked about white garments being symbols of purity and righteousness. To be fair, he did say that people need not go out and buy new clothes, but to wear the best they had.
I have no issue with encouraging people to rise to a basic standard of cleanliness or being well groomed when in the company of brethren. But this article, in my view implies a rule and standard of dress and suggests that if that standard isn't followed someone's salvation could be in jeopardy based solely on what they are wearing. In making this leap of logic,it also seems to diminish the bigger picture and point of what Jesus was actually trying to get across in the parable in reference, which had more to do with behavior and character than what someone happens to be wearing. Matthew 22:2-14
He also seemed to be oblivious to the fact that at least some who were drawn to the WCG came from lower income households, and previous to attending services there might not have owned the suits, starched shirts, ties, and other nicer clothing he had ready access to, and to meet his standard would have had to purchase these things. It's a bit presumptuous to assume that in every case the people he chided had better clothes at home but chose not to wear them.
The article lacks balance, and ignores passages like James 2:1-7 or 1Samuel 16:7. In taking this approach, how is this not in essence violating the principle James was trying to get across in the above passage, which is that we shouldn't be treating others in the body of Christ differently based on how much wealth they display in their outward appearance? Paul addressed related issues in passages such as 1Timothy 2:8-10 and 1Timothy 6:17. We could also look to Jesus's instructions in Luke 14:12-14, and His example in Matthew 15:30, and elsewhere. He didn't chide these people for what they were wearing when they came into His presence. He was too busy healing them. We could also look at Luke 14:15-23. Notice that when those who were invited to the Feast didn't come, the servants were told to bring in the poor, the crippled, the blind, and the lame.(vs.21) These folks aren't exactly the fashion forward of society, which should tell us that Jesus's primary focus is on your heart, and not whether you are wearing a neck tie in His presence. Unfortunately, some of our current church leaders continue to over emphasize outward appearances and also miss the point.
Concerned Sister
6.14 PM
True Pharisaic Christian, Why are you ignoring the log in the ministers eyes by not condemning the ministers lording ways? They are effectively robbing members of their lives by micromanaging them, yet you only harp on dress.
6:06 AM
So basically members of WCG had to wear what HWA wanted them to wear because he was a control freak and wearing formal dress would doubtless give to others the impression or illusion of wealth. HWA and his cults have always been a master of style over substance.
True Christian 6:14 you seriously need to repent for you are in error brother.
Concerned Sister
In all fairness, it should be pointed out that Christs generation was a agrarian society with limited social mobility. So outward appearances often did not match a persons character or life's choices.
Today, things are different. Which is why people are judged to a good degree by appearances, and no amount of bible quoting will change this, even in Gods church.
@NEO
Regarding the Garrison Keillor quote:
...elect a senile Democrat and his communistic base to run the government who want to confiscate your guns and make everyone ride bicycles and live on tofu and kale...
Yeah, I'm done being gas-lit for 'wacky conspiracy theories' that all become true six months later. The above quote alone can be fully proven to be true with a few minutes of time spent doing basic research.
1) It's quite obvious even to the main stream media that Biden has cognitive decline.
2) The extreme socialistic push from self-professed "Socialists" like AOC is a sure path towards communism.
3) Biden has said he wants to confiscate guns in as many words. Look up his "bingo" quote.
4) Read the Green New Deal -- it's only a few pages long. Numerous members of the US Congress have publicly stated their support for it. The inevitable outcome of pricing Americans out of the use of energy is that many won't be able to afford to use cars any more.
5) We are actively being told by the left that we need to change our diets and eat less to no meat to 'change the environment'. So yeah, tofu and kale.
Uh huh, and what happens when someone is told not to come to services?
August 4, 2021 at 8:00 AM
I just skip over any of the silly denials of the likes of Keillor or any that comment here of like opinion once I see where they are going. There is a high percentage on the Left that would take many of the trappings of communism and then find themselves some years later in communism after having done so. It's really a strange mindset. So many talked about TrumpFascist, TrumpMussolini, TrumpHitler and how Trump was going to bring in Fascism. Instead he did everything that a non-Fascist would do: encouraged gun ownership, deregulation, states' rights, free market, pro-life, Christian faith (whether for political reasons or not Christian freedom was encouraged), etc.
And yet, Biden slouches toward most everything said of him while the likes of Keillor (whom I do enjoy at times) can't see that, because it has not yet come to full fruition. It's okay, there are plenty like Neo I appreciate, but when I see the word "Trump" I just move on from his post. You take the good with the bad, though more good.
What does this post have to do with Biden, Trump, or any of the other political idiots out there? WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!!!!
The subject is the ability of COG cult leaders and the power they have over the gullible sheep.
The COGs are related to politics in various ways. For one, they don't allow voting so they eliminate conservatives from making a difference politically. Further, instead of improving this world they sit on their rear waiting for the great false hope Jesus to come and fix it.
The COGs are related to politics in various ways. For one, they don't allow voting so they eliminate conservatives from making a difference politically.
This poster doesn't seem to notice that not voting also eliminates liberals from making a difference politically. Yes, liberals. You know, the kinds of people who are always on the lookout for other people to mow their lawns, move their furniture, pay their way to church events, etc. The kinds of people who are looking to government to solve their problems rather than solve them themselves. Whether their savior is Jesus or Joe Biden, the mentality is often surprisingly similar.
Jesus walked the earth during the time of the Roman Empire, whose accomplishments included building sanitation systems, roads, impressive architectural structures, making bound books, surgical tools, etc. They also had a well defined social structure and pecking order within their population, as did the Jewish community of Jesus's day. He also spent a lot of time around the city of Jerusalem, which by one estimate I read had a population of around 55,000 at that time, but could swell up to around 180,000 during major Feasts.
Whether He lived in what we would consider an agrarian society or not however, has little to do with the inclination of human nature to judge others based largely on outward appearance, and treat them better or worse based on our own assumptions, which might or might not be accurate. This is a universal trait regardless of the times or culture you are born into, because human nature remains largely the same.
It also isn't accurate to assume that because someone shows up to a religious service in a three piece suit as opposed to a pair of overalls, or a toga and sandals for that matter, we can automatically surmise that person's life choices. Plenty of pedophiles, wife beaters, child abusers, adulterers, porn addicts, and even murderers have been able to completely fool people into thinking they are righteous by simply dressing up in a suit or skirt, smiling and being charming for a couple of hours a week. Some of these people are even able to give sermons, lead songs, and give an opening or closing prayer. A suit doesn't reflect what is in the heart of a person anymore than the overalls do. If you need further proof of this simply look at the rich and powerful of our own society. Many of these people spend most of their lives wearing expensive dress clothes. That fact however, doesn't make them any less prone to bad behavior. It just means they have a greater ability to hide it or cover it up if they want to.
Again, I have nothing against suits, ties, and skirts per se, but using these things as a measure of someone's righteousness or devotion and respect for God completely misses the point, and places too much emphasis on the outward appearance of a person, rather than the inward character. Matthew 23:25-28
Concerned Sister
Well said CS! :-)
Anonymous (10:22) wrote "What does this post have to do with Biden, Trump, or any of the other political idiots out there? WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!!!! The subject is the ability of COG cult leaders and the power they have over the gullible sheep."
You are missing the point. In or society now, principally due to the influence of unrelenting propagandists like Trump and Jordan, people have a much diminished concept of truthfulness. At one time Splinterdom could not have gotten away with some of the malarkey that it is selling. But now we have an atomosphere where people will line up for malarkey. Witness some of the comments in response to mine under this post. Someone like Marjorie Taylor Green can lay out a smorgasbord of steaming piles of manure and people who should know better will dine on it without discretion. In that kind of ambience, can we really expect splinterists to exercise discretion about the spin tht comes from the pulpits of Splinterdom? Malarkey has been enobled at the national level.
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Anon 12:53 pm --"instead of improving this world they sit on their rear waiting for the great false hope Jesus to come and fix it".
Since you obviously reject the assessment of the God of the Bible regarding this WORLD (John 7:7, 1 John 5:19, 2:15-17), How would YOU go about fixing and improving it???
Be specific. A Nobel prize could be riding on it!
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