Just when you think you have heard it all in Armstrongism along comes another dingy minister saying something stupid. But, this is the Philadelphia Church of God and we have come to accept that they will do things like this.
This is by Brad Macdonald in a sermon to singles in the PCG cult:
Talked about Herman Hoeh being really yoked to God in the 40’s, 50’s and 60’s and that meant “being yoked to Mr. Armstrong (HWA). Being “tightly bound” to HWA made Hoeh “incredibly successful and incredibly effective at doing God’s Work.” Kept talking about Hoeh and said he was “the most accurately informed historian in the world.” I couldn’t find anything like this when I searched on the internet. Told how Hoeh in the 70’s began to unyoke himself from HWA and yoked himself to intellectualism and by the 1970’s was yoked to the synagogue of Satan. Exit and Support Network
Even Herman Hoeh himself said that his Compendium of World History was riddled with errors. Nothing pissed off many of these splinter cult leaders when Hoeh refused to follow them when they started new churches in acts of rebellion.
26 comments:
Poor Bob Thiel, once more humiliated. The little guy just cannot get a break!
Thankfully I never had to take a course from Hoeh when I was at AC in the early 70's. I dreaded it when he showed up for Friday night Bible study in the gymnasium. His lectures made for a long evening.
Thankfully I did take classes with Dr. Hoeh. On the final exam day for his history class I showed up an hour late. By then the exam had been given, and the second hour was for scoring the exam. So he said, after a short pause, I have an idea of how to let you take the test while the rest does the scoring. We walked into the room, and he said pull up a desk in front of the class and sit there. Without warning he began asking me the questions one by one, and I had to give the answers out loud so the class could check their answers.
Thankfully, I had “cheated” on the test. I had noticed on the other tests he would tell us how to prepare. He would tell us the test would be on the text we used, or on our class notes. But each test was on the opposite of what he told us. The final exam was supposed to be on text pages. So, I took a chance and crammed on my class notes. Got a great score in spite of the stress I felt in front of the class.
On our wedding day the only minister to give us a wedding gift was Dr. Hoeh.
Used to have some great discussions with him at his home over dinner. Unlike many I know, he was fascinated with the so-called contradictions in the bible. He said they were there to keep people going back again and again. They were like great zen koans. That is, they didn’t make sense on the surface, but what a pleasure they were when the answer popped out. Like casting a mountain into the sea. That actually happened, and is explained in the NT.
Very glad I had classes with him, and some great discussions!
I liked Doc Hoeh, and looked forward to his sermons and lectures back in the day. He was one of the very few intellectuals we had an opportunity to hear, and as such was a breath of fresh air. I did not realize the extent to which he was squandering his intellect, and indulging in bogus research which involved lifting passages from the proper context of their sources to make them support Armstrongism. The most flagrant example of this involved the "research" behind "The True History of the True Church." Sometime during the 1970s, AC students of superior intellect, who were actually familiar with the esoteric references which Hoeh used, surfaced and were able to trace back to Hoeh's sources and to reveal the full contexts. These full contexts actually cast doubt upon the Armstrongian contentions, or in many cases outright refuted them. Armstrong was apparently enamored with Alexander Hislop's "The Two Babylons" and did not recognize Hislop's methodology as being extremely weak, great leaps to conclusions, and outright disingenuous. Hislop was engulfed in Panbabylonian Hyperdiffusionism, the idea that classical Ancient Near Eastern civilizatiins had all taken their inspiration from the religion allegedly founded at the tower of Babel. Panbabylonianism was relegated to pseudohistory as Twentieth Century scholars began to actually decode and study the historical records of the ancient near east. Christian author Ralph Woodrow had written a work supporting "The Two Babylons", and when his further research proved that that earlier work was in error, he wrote an additional book "The Babylon Connectiin?" correcting it. The problem is that Armstrongites and others completely ignore Woodrow's corrective opus, and still quote his earlier work to support their theories regarding alleged pagan influences on modern Christianity.
Lester Grabbe, graduate of Ambassador College, and a widely recognized scholar, refuted much of the ACOG folklore which we were taught regarding Nimrod and Semiramis through his studies of the ancient texts.
Much of this information was exposed and discussed in the early days of the internet by so-called dissidents of the Armstrong movement. As many of those original posters and bloggers have simply gone on with their lives, the information which they shared has faded. It is shocking that those in the ACOGs could still hold to Armstrong's Hislop-influenced views and theories, but, Hislop was such an integral part of the bedrock of Armstrongism that the actual facts do not matter to the "true believer" types. Brad McDonald, Bob Thiel, Dave Pack, and others should be embarrassed to be spreading such disinformation, but we live in times where to so many people facts no longer matter. Their agenda is the only thing which counts, and they are not above lying to support it.
It's part of natural growth for people to "unyoke" themselves from their significant others and become independent minded, "proving all things."
As is the case with bullies, the church doesn't trust freedom, so members are expected to be like perpetual children, clinging to their parents or parent substitutes.
Btw, Genesis 2:24 instructs "therefore a man shall LEAVE his mother and father and cleave to his wife.." Moral daddies are to be left behind.
Where and when did he say it was riddled worth errors?
EVERYTHING about Armstrongism is riddled with errors!
In original HWA-lead WCG, there were pieces of church literature which were pulled from publication at different times for various reasons. No official comment was given at the time they were pulled. Some of it was obviously dated, others would have raised the ire of government officials as national parsdigms shifted, some was branded by HWA as having been created by church liberals, and some was eventually seen as being just plain wrong. One problem in Armstrongism today is that different of the splinter cults have patterned their teachings and policies after specific vintages (for lack of a better term) of HWA, and not always at the man's final version just prior to his death. Not that HWA or his church ever possessed huge amounts of wisdom or discernment, but the remnant cults of today have even less of these commodities. They're absolute fools and fanatics who have gone way beyond the original cult's obsessivenes in an effort to prove that they are the true remaining Philadelphians, not realizing that their actions are in conflict with the definition of "Philadelphian", one who embodies brotherly love.
"Riddled with error" is a phrase Tkach Jr supposedly used regarding Mystery of the Ages in conversation with Gerald Flurry. Tkach Sr would later use it when describing the book, but he claims HWA said it.
My two cents. I did not know Hoeh personally. I spoke with him once in person and corresponded with him several times. Within that limited scope, it seems to me that the one really bright spot in Hoeh's life was his conversion to Christianity near the end of his life. Hoeh renounced The Compendium before his death in, I believe, a splendid gesture of reverence to genuine historical inquiry. All of this must be a profound embarrassment to the reactionaries. I believe Herman intended to be so.
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There were several WCG brass , who were promoted to some kind of SUPERSTAR STATUS , that were remarkably mediocre men, but were curated as being the most "profound men of our generation"
Gerald Waterhouse for example, as one of the most motivational Christian speakers ever, with insights to how the future Kingdom Of God would be structured, along with scatter brained prophetic understandings.
Joe Tkach Sr. , as some kind of "war hero" , supposedly fighting off Kamikazes , while doing little more than serving on a weather ship off of Alaska during WW2.
Rod Meredith -- "Gold Gloves Champion of Joplin Missouri". How much do you want to bet there was probably only one other skinny scrawny kid that RCM beat in a localized event.
Herman Hoeh - a weird guy, drinking goats milk , with wild speculations about everything. I remember hearing him in the early 90s saying that within 5 years the whole economic system would collapse, and we would be eating scraps with holes in our shoes. Of course that was a sign that the greatest bull market for the stock market would soon start! Consorted with demonically influenced crazies for insight on Satans Realm, , as he confessed in a sermon at the FOT in the Ozarks in 1979.
HWA himself--- The Elijah, Zerubabel, Two Witness, Apostle, and more.
In the WCG , there was a whole clamoring and competition to achieve this "movie star status" , and to have the brethren as the admiring fan base.
RSK , you are correct that it was JWT who said "riddled with errors" about MOTA.
However, even HWA , at the book distribution premier at AC, (which was later shown on video to churches) that there were minor mistakes in the book that would be corrected at a future time.
There was a weird rewrite of history that was attempted by the Tkach's around 1995. One claim that JWT Sr. made was that HWA basically recanted everything he taught the previous 50 years, while on his death bed, and told JWT to fit it. Tkach said he wanted to have this on a tape recorder as no one would believe it , but that HWA said that they would have to take it on faith instead. Aaron Dean will confirm that the Tkach claim of recanting is pure fantasy and propaganda.
That statement from JWT is so ridiculous as to make me laugh. Men like HWA do not suddenly recant their entire "castles in the sky " ego trips that they create over 94 years. HWA and GTA were a mess, but the Tkach's are no saints either, nor are they some great reformers either. The Tkach's indeed, are responsible for one of the biggest heist of property , some $200 million dollars worth, that would put the guys in the movie "Good Fellas" to shame!
Anonymous 12:20
I am also interested in whether Hoeh actually ever made a formal statement. The information I have is this:
1. I first heard that Hoeh had renounced the Compendium years ago while Hoeh was still alive. I heard it from many quarters and it seems to have circulated widely. He never made a statement that contradicted this view.
2. I knew a family in the WCG that was close to Hoeh. A family member told me that Hoeh hated to be asked questions about history. He also mentioned that when Hoeh was asked about the Compendium, he would just said "I was wrong." We were both dedicated Armstrongists at the time of this conversation.
My guess is that nobody in WCG/GCI ever requested a formal statement from Hoeh on this issue. I believe the thinking was that his historical/anthropological writing would die a natural death as competent people sought to corroborate his results in the future. But, you know, people tend to just believe rather than validating with research. I know that much of what he wrote about the "origin of nations" was false just based on genetics without researching his resources in classical history.
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Some things about Dr. Hoeh:
To some he seemed a little “odd” as some even here have mentioned. This comes from the fact that in many ways he was a “simple” man. That is said as a compliment, not a derogatory one. He spoke for instance, very directly in personal discussions. Did not evade the question, as so many do. His life was very simple, and natural health oriented. Ergo, goat’s milk, etc. It was taught by many natural health experts that goat’s milk was better than cow’s milk for humans. He liked organic butter left in a covered dish on the kitchen table. It spread easier when warm, and tastes much better than straight from the frig. Whole wheat breads, organic veges, etc.
As for his history studies, he was under a personal vow to study every minute of “free” time he had. Because of this he would on occasion drop off to sleep for a minute or so when talking with him in his office. He was not afraid to admit if he made an error. Many times in history class he would tell us something new he discovered. Then freely admit the next day in his reading that he found a source, or sources, that negated what he told us the day before. I can’t imagine that happening here.
He was very committed to following the bible in his private life. If he found something that might disagree with current church teaching he didn’t create a stink publicly over it. Instead, he would do what he thought was right in his private life. But, would bring the question privately to HWA, and other ministers. Then when enough proof was found to accept or reject the question he did that in his life.
In those kinds of questions he did both till final proof prevailed. For instance, Pentecost Monday, or Sunday? He kept both days till the Sunday change prevailed.
He is one of the three ministers I would ask for anointing when something felt wrong. And, I always was healed. ln a couple times instantly.
To me he was not at all like some describe him.
"...it seems to me that the one really bright spot in Hoeh's life was his conversion to Christianity near the end of his life."
You are right Neo on this. His embrace of Christ towards the end of his life made him joyful as he had never been before. He knew the mistakes in the old WCG and knew the church was headed in the right direction. That is why he never left it for one of the crazy splinters.
The only sermon from Dr Hoeh I've heard was an online recording over a decade ago. The topic was RCG/WCG history, and, apart from one or two Biblical quotes, the source material was all from HWA's Autobiography.
A mention of Dr Hoeh's rejection of his own work appears in the Ambassador Report.
There were some interesting characters at AC. One was Dr. Stig Erlander who promoted Zinfandel wine for many ailments. He was fired from AC after questioning some teachings. He said that the college was run like Stalin's Russia. He lived to be 83. I believe his son died from anaphylactic shock after taking medication. I often wonder, "Whatever happened to _______________". Most of us were, I imagine, sincere people wanting to please God.
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My last minister told me that it was found that AC graduates couldn't cope in the real world after being treated like children at the college. This resulted in a relaxation of AC tyranny.
And this from the college that claimed to teach students "how to live." Believe the nice words rather than the reality.
I had understood that Stig Jr. died as a result of not taking any medication for a very curable ailment. He was blessed with high intellect, was an accomplished pianist, and presumably had a great future ahead of him. At the time of his death, I thought "What a waste!" People in the church had been taught by HWA that it was pleasing to God not to avail oneself of modern medical science, and it was almost a regular occurrence that people died of easily treatable ailments. Peoples' expectations had been lowered to the point that they believed that this was just part and parcel of being a good church member.
Unfortunately, sincere people wanting to please God are the most readily exploitable people walking the face of the earth! Their gurus that they follow are responsible for what happens to them, whether they acknowledge it or not. How many times did we listen to our gurus blame their victims?
Mystery of the Ages was simply a compilation of a few of HWAs previous books.
M.O.T.A. was some dull reading.
Bob posted another article on Petra, including an article by Dr Hoeh.
Bob claims that the Petra doctrine was not the "non-biblical inventions of Loma and/or Herbert W. Armstrong" and supports this with, you guessed it, Catholic prophecy and other Catholic sources.
Okay, so if Petra wasn't HWA's idea, it was yet another doctrine he purloined (sorry, "was revealed to him") from other sources.
I'd like to know was it Hermon Hoeh who brought in the doctrines of the races not intermarrying and of the iron clad pyramid government of God control? Both Nazi things. I can't get to the origins of this, but just I've read comments about it. Anyone got any sources?
Ambassador College had such an anti-intellectual atmosphere that I never could understand how he could fit in so well. General thinking was that the best recruits for ministerial and administrative positions came from the business world. Everyone scorned thinkers in their ivory towers. Yet here was a guy with studious habits and intellectual curiosity. Why did they make an exception for Herman Hoeh? Also, specialists in ivory towers generally looked down on business people. How could he stand to be surrounded by all those louts with bourgeois values and nouveau riche habits?
It has been heartening to learn from The Painful Truth and Armstrongism Library that he actually did pay attention to the things he studied and eventually outgrew the practice of using them to validate bad history and worse theology.
We had some interesting experiences with Dr. Hoeh at the FOT in Germany in the '80s.
He gave several sermons - instead of using the translator, he spoke a few sentences in English, and then in German, throughout.
I can't remember any of the topics or content but I do remember thinking they were good sermons.
Outside of services, Dr. Hoeh and his wife spent some social time with my family on at least a handful of occasions.
They both seemed a bit awkward, yet really they were warm, charming, and not at all pretentious - conversations were easy, with mutual interest on all sides.
My family was surprised to feel that they truly enjoyed being with us.
We had briefly met the Hoehs a few times before through other family members, who had insignificant ties to Dr. Hoeh and were not present at that feast.
Like all ministers, and especially evangelists, Dr. Hoeh's time and attention was being sought by many people at the Feast, yet he did not seem affected by this fame and just spent his time casually doing what he pleased.
Dr. Hoeh did not fit the mold of a church leader, from what I am reading here. HWA, being a narcissist, kept a lot of people on the payroll, I believe, because they were useful to him. It's nice to have an intellectual on your side to give you credibility. Hoeh was the intellectual. Meredith was the bully. I suspect there were a lot of ghosts on the payroll. People who were on the payroll but didn't really seem to have much to do. How many were paid just to keep quiet? I had hoped that someone who was on the inside, on the fourth floor, if you will, would have written a book about The Plain Truth about what went on behind the scenes. It might make J.R.Ewing blush. I think David Jon Hill started to write some things before he died. But, that generation is almost gone by now.
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