God's ever-whining and most disrespected modern-day prophet is bemoaning the fact that the old Worldwide Church of God, some of its members, and today's Churches of God aren't living lives consumed by prophecy.
The fact that this little crybaby is still dealing with his rejection not only by Rod Meredith and the Living Church of God but also by the old Fresno Worldwide Church of God. How dare they! Laodicean heathens!
Right after the Berlin wall fell in November 1989, I was asked to give the closing prayer at WCG church services in Fresno, California. In that prayer, I mentioned that we were witnessing prophecy being fulfilled right before our eyes. One of the reasons that I stated that was because many in that congregation seemed to be losing their zeal and belief about Bible prophecy. They did not seem to see the prophetic significance of what was happening. Many who once were believers, no longer loved the law of God. Some even became scorners (Psalm 1). A major falling away was occurring.
People, in and out of the Church of God, now have less respect for the entire Bible.This includes one-time WCG members who did not repudiate many of their original beliefs, but instead who basically did not consider prophecy that important and/or who are now holding to prophetic beliefs that are clearly in error. The bulk of Christians were or became Laodicean.Those who understand church eras, also understand that the Laodiceans were prophesied to be the bulk of the Christians in the end times. And that has happened. They think because they did not actually lose their religion, they are fine. Jesus, however, said otherwise in Revelation 3:14-22.
The fake self-appointed prophet is still whining that today's COG members, particularly the unaffiliated ones will NOT join his cult. Thank God!!!!!!!!
As far as for those who consider themselves COG and unaffiliated, most of them are either Laodicean or confused. My prayer is that they will diligently seek the truth and support the Continuing Church of God as we lead the Philadelphian remnant. As far as being unaffiliated goes, Herbert W. Armstrong wrote about being “independent”–he opposed that.
Herbert Armstrong vehemently opposed little upstarts like the improperly named "continuing Church of "god" splitting off from the Worldwide Church of God. Not only did whiney Bob do it once, but three times!
46 comments:
Bob must learn to let go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp9xple1n-c
FINAL EXAMS
During the last year of his life, in his June 25, 1985 monthly letter to Brethren and Co-Workers, Herbert W. Armstrong wrote the following interesting paragraph:
“Right now, it seems God has been holding events in the world back. We had expected the Great Tribulation to come before now. Why the delay? It surely seems God has held the winds of terrorism and the Great Tribulation back to allow time for the fulfillment of verse 14 in a more complete way. Already we have reached every nation on earth with the Gospel of the KINGDOM. But not intensively enough, apparently. Another thing, we are in the time of final exams in God's Church, and perhaps we are not yet sufficiently tried and tested and proven to be ready to sit with Christ on the earth's throne. Perhaps WE OURSELVES have been holding the march of events up.”
It certainly looks like there were indeed some more “FINAL EXAMS” to try and test and prove the Worldwide Church of God people. Many people are having great difficulty with all the FINAL EXAMS. And these might not have been the last FINAL EXAMS.
For example, the Great Apostasy of 1995 FINAL EXAM, when many people who were supposedly members of the Worldwide Church of God went along with the apostate Joseph W. Tkach, Sr. in rejecting virtually everything that Herbert W. Armstrong had taught. It looks like they completely flunked out of the church at that particular FINAL EXAM.
Around that time and later there were also the False Prophet FINAL EXAMS, when some people who were supposedly members of the Worldwide Church of God followed deranged and vicious false prophets like Gerald R. Flurry and David C. Pack into perverting Herbert W. Armstrong's major teachings. It looks like they completely, totally, utterly failed those particular FINAL EXAMS.
Those who mistakenly thought that the FINAL EXAMS would be a breeze probably should have studied harder and prepared more. Qualifying to rule with Jesus Christ for a thousand years now seems to take more than just the ability to warm a folding metal chair once or twice a week.
Bob is overconfident. Many prophecies have failed -- those made by Christians and others!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjWMVV3LkzU
when many people ... went along with the apostate Joseph W. Tkach, Sr. ...
He was the ultimate two-faced deceiver. He demonstrated that there is NO LIMIT to the deceitfulness of supposedly Christian ministers in the Church of God.
Of course people lost their "zeal" for prophecy. It wasn't so much that it was "the truth", it was the implement of our spiritual rape!!! It was how the bastards used fear to keep us all in line. Frankly, it is very telling that someone of Bob Thiel's personality profile would attempt to reenergize prophecy and to use it once again as Herbert W. Armstrong pioneered and intended.
Sometimes, if something is just so bad that you can't get rid of it, the best scenario is that it becomes so slowed down that it loses it's threat value. The good news is that we won! We baby boomers who hated the prophecy and hoped it would never come to pass actually won because these cretins did not succeed in robbing us of our lives. Herbie, one strike and you're out in 1975, and we all got to live happily ever after. And, it can happen for you, too, young people in the prophecy-based ACOGs of today! O/C concentration on prophecy, rather than basic Christian living principles was what totally screwed up the old WCG and made it such a morose cult. I can't imagine living for all eternity in their version of "the Kingdom". The good news is that we don't have to because it was all their unique construct, and not reality.
Great work by Gary to continue to hold the feet of these goof-balls accountable!
The WWCG emphasis on tried, tested, the final exams, is plain wrong. The emphasis should been on personal growth. There are many excellent secular books on this topic, yet I never heard a sermon on this. What's there to test if people aren't growing?
Of course HWA disapproved of independent Christians. He wants people regularly coming to services to ensure that they are so deeply brainwashed, that they will never leave. This ensured his income and power over the flock. Other denominations do the same for the same reason. Note how Bob's reference point was Herb and not God on this matter.
The holy spirit told me to stay clear of services, informing me that "I had joined a gang." Ponder that. God views COG culture the same as that of a gang.
okay 7:38, and HWA wasn't an apostate after he tried to add bankrupt-Anglo-Israelism to his old church??
You can only "cry wolf" so often. That goes for prophetic utterances, as well.
David Pack should have learned that by now.
Why do they give their church old names of cities they don't reside in or even the country? The 7 churches in Revelation are called that because of the city they were actually living in.
Our littlest prophlet of all is reeking of desperation....again. This article of his once again proves he has no clue what he is talking about and does NOT know how to rightly divide the Word of God. Law, law, law and his version of prophecy is all tiny Bob can spew.
Jesus who? Should be the name of Bob's ever shrinking personality cult.
It is the cult leader' exam to control, manipulate, and cause fear. Oh yeah,
that is called "witchcraft.".
anon @7:38pm
I passed the final exam. It took me awhile but I walked out of Herbie’s cult in 1995. I look back and ask myself how could I have been duped for so many years. WCG was all about following Herbert. He took never took any gospel message to the world. He flew around in his private luxury jet and paid for meetings with a few leaders of of different countries. God never revealed any truth to him. He got his message from others and he never acknowledged them. He was a fat little man with a big ego. He prophesied repeatedly that Christ was going to return in the “next few years”. The church was going to be taken to a place of safety and the tribulation would start. 31/2 years later Christ would return. I was told there would be famine by the late 1960’s. I was told by the early 1970’s the Holy Roman Empire would reemerge as the world superpower and Germany would lead them. The church would flee in 1972. Opps, it never happened. All the church ever meant to Herbert was his money pit. As long as he could live in luxury, he didn’t give a rat’s ass about the membership.
The final exam was a duesey. But I passed, I got my diploma and left.
Jim
There is nothing wrong with the Bible. It is the cult leaders cherry picking scripture to fit his false narrative to further dominate their lives and finances. Repent from coming into agreement with these people, expose them, bring lawsuits against them with their no accountability with money, make amends with family & friends, and live a good life.
If Armstrongism is constructing the final exams, I want to do as well as I can. In this case, that means totally failing their exams, thus demonstrating that they have no power over me whatsoever.
It is very fair question to ask... "What has been the fruit of nearly 90 years of Armstrong and successor groups use of Prophecy"??
No need for an ad hominem attack on me, as Im a Sabbath Keeping , beef hot dog eating Christian. However, I dont see any "profit from prophecy" exhibited by any group over the last 90 years. The Church of God 7th Day, a group that I support doctrinally, wisely moved away from "prediction addiction" many decades ago.
I can sum up all this prophecy stuff quickly , so you can live life without having to sort thru the madness.
1) Jesus will return
2) Its going to be very crappy in the world before he comes.
3) Love and obey God, Treat others as you would want to be treated, and show some kindness and consideration.
4) Repent, and trust that God is faithful to forgive your sins thru the Sacrifice of Jesus
There, we now return you to your reguarly scheduled broadcast.
Jesus said to watch their fruit. Good or bad it will reveal itself.
His entire post is hilarious. He cites an article about Bible reading being in decline, but misses or ignores that the article is warning against the decline of Bible literacy among BELIEVERS, instead pivoting to whining about atheists. Then, humorously, he demonstrates that he doesn't know what the old Southern phrase "losing my religion" means. But of course, to wrap up his post, then he has to promote himself - not his "work", his personage. Just as old Spanky Meredith said, the man's opinion of himself is so inflated.
There is nothing wrong with the Bible. It is the cult leaders ...
There is plenty wrong with the bible. Very little or nothing in it is demonstrably true. Further, it demands faith and loyalty to unprovable fanciful narratives that read like fairy tales.
Religion is based on fear of death and a search for meaning. It is a crutch for those who cannot face the harsh truth that nobody really knows the meaning of life or what happens after we die.
anon738,
Don't hold HWA as something too different than these splinter cog leaders. He was more "charismatic" and had a voice that worked for radio at the time, but he was probably even more corrupted than any of these others.
I have never heard of a church leader giving "a final exam." If that doesn't scream ***CULT*** to people, only Jesus can deliver these poor 0 discernment people. I bet Jim Jones gave them exams on the path to committing group suicide.
One of my favorite cult leader quotes of all time paraphrased.... "If what I say does not happen, then the Bible is not true. "
Who said that? I bet most of you guessed right! That would be.....
Drum roll....Herbert W. Armstrong.
We should make up a quiz of their famous arrogant quotes.
To Anon @ 1:04. I thought that was a Gerald Waterhouse quote.
That was Waterhouse.
"If what I say does not happen, then the Bible is not true."
-- Jesus said that (paraphrasing).
"if what I say does not happen, then the bible is not true."
There's quite a few similar expressions used by HWAs church. For instance, if you don't agree with claim A, B, C, then you're doubting, questioning God or you lack faith. Or expressions such as "this is obviously true" or "even a child can see this."
All the above are coercion, which contradicts the bible's instruction to not lord it over members faith. According to studies, coercion doesn't stick, plus it robs its victims the opportunity to build on rock rather than sand by proving things for themselves. But it's bully morality that prevails in the splinters, so the coercion will continue.
@7:38
"..perverting Herbert W. Armstrong's major teachings"
oh, you mean like Anglo-Israelism?
If Armstrong, as Waterhouse loved to say, meant "strong arm", what did Waterhouse mean? Outdoor plumbing? :)
7:38 I’d rather fail the “final exam” then spend one more minute in any COG past present or future
"[HWA] was a fat little man with a big ego"
..and not all that intelligent; an estimated IQ of around 105.
It's a pity kowtow to someone that you're way smarter than..
Quiz Question -
Which cult leader is in an old picture pointing to words on a large poster (he created) that had 3 words on it in order of (in his mind) order of importance?
One word was on each line.
Here is what it read...
Line 1. God
Line 2 Jesus
Line 3 ______
He replaced the obvious answer
"Holy Spirit" WITH HIS OWN NAME which is why all of his words fell to the ground while he was alive. Zero prayer life, zero connection to Holy Spirit.
Answer:. Herbert W. Armstrong
The COG concept of the Holy Spirit originated with the pagan idea of a life force which was also compared to wind.
The people who spend the least amount of time investigation all possible alternatives are the ones who are most likely to be deluded. None of these cult leaders will consider that the bible might be wrong and they don't read anything which puts the bible in the context of the culture in which it was produced. They take the book itself totally out of context.
Anon 1139
Thanks for the official "atheists" opinion on the matter!
?? HWA shall arise, with a vehement countenance, skilled in sayings that appear to be the truth but are not. His power will be mighty but not by his own power, and he will corrupt to an extraordinary degree and prosper and perform his will; he will corrupt numerous people of a church and through his shrewdness he will cause deceit to succeed by his hand; he will magnify himself in his heart (I'm the apostle) and will corrupt many during a time of peace........paraphrase Daniel 8:12, 23-25.
Anon, Friday, April 21, 2023 at 9:53:00 AM PDT, wrote:
"...Quiz Question -
Which cult leader is in an old picture pointing to words on a large poster (he created) that had 3 words on it in order of (in his mind) order of importance?
One word was on each line.
Here is what it read...
Line 1. God
Line 2 Jesus
Line 3 ______
He replaced the obvious answer
"Holy Spirit" WITH HIS OWN NAME which is why all of his words fell to the ground while he was alive. Zero prayer life, zero connection to Holy Spirit.
Answer: Herbert W. Armstrong..."
******
FWIIW, perhaps a more appropriate answer for Line 3, rather than "Holy Spirit" or name Herbert W. Armstrong, may be what the Apostle Paul wrote us:
"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God." 1 Cor 11:3
John
Yes, the great Apostasy of 1995! What a wonderful idea. The senior class prank becomes the final exam! Of course, those of us in Class of '75 beat you guys to it, but Hey! Better late than never. Thank God that as many of us escaped that FUBAR cult as did! Life is SO much better now! I mean, what if someone threw a totally bitchin' apostasy and nobody left???
It is widely thought Aaron Dean or Tkach Snr wrote Herbert Armstrong's last few member letters.
Sadly many in the COG movement think much higher of themselves than they ought.
Don't know Bob Theil, never met him, but his alleged comments in this post about supposed Christians losing respect and knowledge of the Bible is correct. It is the tip of an very cold iceberg.
The church of God world has become a social climbing, social group world. A sermon here, a sermon there and bobs your uncle, slam the bible book lid down and off for a gossip with cronies.
Many of them are done with God. And it shows.
The is no growth because the leaders of many levels don't want growth. A members very survival in COG world is dependant on if their face fits with the leadership not God. God is not consulted, not determined and not worried about.
The COG world belongs to the human leaders with human reasoning and many know it.
From:
Autobiography of HERBERT W. ARMSTRONG, Volume 2 (copyright 1987)
Chapter 42
New Consciousness of Mission
About this time God impressed on my mind His real meaning of the prophecies in Ezekiel 33:1-19, and 3:17-21. The true significance of the entire book of Ezekiel had been revealed for some time. But now, suddenly, it took on immediate and specific and personal significance.
I had seen that Ezekiel was a prophet with a message for the FUTURE. He himself was in the captivity of the House of JUDAH — the Jews. But he was not set a prophet with a message to these people. The original nation Israel had been divided after the death of Solomon into two nations. The northern kingdom of TEN TRIBES had its capital, not at Jerusalem, but at Samaria. It was called THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL — not Judah. The kingdom of Israel had been invaded and conquered by King Shalmaneser of Assyria about 120 to 135 years before the Jewish captivity by Babylon.
The people of the House of Israel had been up-rooted from their homes, their farms and cities, and taken to the southern shores of the Caspian Sea. Buy by the time of the Babylonish captivity of Judah, in Ezekiel's day, some of the House of Israel had migrated northwest to northwestern Europe and the British Isles.
Continued below...
...continued from above.
Ezekiel was made a prophet to this nation — not the nation of Judah among whose captives he lived. His message was a warning of INVASION and TOTAL DESTRUCTION OF THE NATION'S CITIES. That invasion was for the far future. The prophecy came more than 120 years after Israel already had been invaded and conquered.
God did not say, "Warn the people where you are." He said: "Son of man, I SEND THEE TO" the House of Israel. God said: "go" from where Ezekiel was, with JUDAH — "GO, get thee UNTO THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL."
But Ezekiel did not go. HE COULDN'T! He was a CAPTIVE of the Chaldeans. And no such gigantic military invasion has ever befallen the kingdom of ISRAEL since Ezekiel's prophecy was written! The prophecies of the Bible are nearly all DUAL. They have a two-fold fulfillment — the one, often in Old Testament times, a type of the second, in these end-time days. The Assyrian captivity, more than a century before the prophecy was the type. The warning is for our day!
Eze 3:5 For thou art not sent to a people of a strange speech and of an hard language, but to the house of Israel;
Mt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Both Ezekiel and Jesus were sent to "the house of Israel".
Isa 8:14 And He hath been for a sanctuary, And for a stone of stumbling, and for a rock of falling, To the TWO HOUSES OF ISRAEL, For a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. (YLT).
They were both sent to the "southern" house of Israel.
Synonymous parallelism:
Eze 8:6 abominations that the house of Israel committeth here
Eze 8:17 the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here
Eze 8:1b ... I sat in mine house, and the elders of Judah sat before me...
Eze 14:1 Then came certain of the elders of Israel unto me, and sat before me.
Eze 3:4 And ... go, get thee unto the house of Israel, and speak with my words unto them.
Eze 3:11 And go, get thee to them of the captivity, unto the children of thy people, and speak unto them...
Herbert W. Armstrong, US & B, p.65:
"HOUSE OF ISRAEL" NEVER MEANS "JEWS." The three tribes at Jerusalem under the Davidic king are called, merely, the house of Judah".
HWA's observation is not in accord with the Bible.
Eze 12:2 Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house...
Eze 12:9 Son of man, hath not the house of Israel, the rebellious house, SAID UNTO THEE, What doest thou?
“Ezekiel was from Judah, and he lived in the midst of a company of exiles from Judah. Thus we can expect him to be sent to the exiles from Judah” (Walther Zimmerli, Ezekiel 1, p.132).
Eze 4:4 Lie thou also upon thy left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel upon it:
Eze 4:5 ... according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.
Eze 4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.
“Ezekiel’s favorite designation for his primary audience is bet yisra’el, house/family of Israel... Ezekiel applies the name variously to the northern kingdom..., to the exiles of Judah in Babylon, and to the remnant in Jerusalem” (Daniel I. Block, The Book of Ezekiel - Chapters 1-24, NICOT, p.31).
Eze 45:8 ... and my princes shall no more oppress my people; and the rest of the land shall they give to the house of Israel according to their tribes.
Eze 1:2 In the fifth day of the month, which was the fifth year of king Jehoiachin's captivity,
Eze 12:10 Say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: This oracle concerns the prince [Zedekiah] in Jerusalem and all the house of Israel who are in it.' (ESV).
The term "house of Israel" in Ezekiel may refer to the whole nation of twelve tribes (cp. 45:8); to the northern kingdom (cp.4:4-5); to the Jews in Babylon, with King Jehoiachin in prison; and the Jews in Judah, with King Zedekiah on the throne (as above).
All Jews are Israelites, but not all Israelites are Jews.
Jacob, whose name got changed by God to Israel, had twelve sons, who became the twelve tribes of Israel.
One of the twelve tribes of Israel was the tribe of Judah.
All people from the tribe of Judah are also Israelites, since they are all descended from Israel.
But not all Israelites are from the tribe of Judah. Many Israelites are from the other eleven tribes.
1:36 and 2.00 are stating the obvious.
But what are your points?
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