When you read this you can quickly see what a condescending prick HWA was at times.
Satan's Next Attack:Today I want to speak on what may possibly be the very next attack that Satan will use against this church. I was studying at lunch before the meeting last Sabbath, with our minister there and he said "I think that very likely, the next attack of Satan" — now there was the attack of the State of California against us. There's been another attack that most of you don't even know anything about. It only hit a few of us at the top. But there has been trouble and don't you think there hasn't. Satan is on the job. But Christ is on the job and Christ is winning. And always will win! It's like my executive assistant, Bob Fahey said, he's looked at the book to see how it comes out in the end, and he says we win. Yes we do. That's the way it's going to turn out. At least Christ is going to win and we'll only win if we're on Christ's side. We don't need to worry about getting Christ over on our side. But he said, the thing that's going to hit this church next, that Satan's going to use, is interracial marriage.Oh the pity. People can sometimes get their feelings all stirred up to a red hot pitch on something of that kind. Their prejudices, their emotions, their feelings. God almighty created us all. He put us here for a purpose. And we don't have much longer. And we need to look into this. Now that was in New York City last Sabbath. On the plane, coming back, Mr. Fahey showed me a letter that had been handed to him from a member. I believe this member is in, yes, just across in New Jersey, just across from New York but had attended the service. And she had been talking to another member who lives in Philadelphia. And there'd been quite a heated conversation on the telephone. And I want to read you just one slight little bit of what was in that message and what is coming up in the church now. And you're going to have to — IF GOD BE GOD GET ON HIS SIDE. AND IF YOU WANT TO GO WITH THIS WORLD AND THE WAY IT'S GOING, GET OVER ON THAT SIDE, and go into the lake of fire with it. That's all I have to say.I just want to read a few, this is about a 3 or 4 page letter, so, I'll just read a part of it. She says,"During the conversation, [that's the telephone conversation, that's the telephone conversation she had with this woman in Philadelphia] it was stated that the blacks in God's church are dissatisfied with such doctrines that are not keeping with the current social trend in the world, which they feel are in keeping with the premises of international relationships that are a part of this nation's background"So we should go along with our nation and the social trends of the world. And this letter also says that they are trying to line up a group of blacks, TO GIVE ME AN ULTIMATUM! THAT I GET ON THE SIDE OF THE TRENDS, THE SOCIAL TREND OF THIS WORLD. OR ELSE! I'll tell you what I'll give them. I'll give them OR ELSE. I won't compromise one millionth of an inch. And if you will, you can go into the lake of fire if you want to. Now, I've never started a fight in my life but let me tell you, I've won every fight I've ever been in. But someone else always started it. I don't want to start a fight. I'm the servant of the Most High God. And I'm as much a servant of blacks or of yellows or of any other color, pinks, polka dots, anything you want to mention - and the like. But I know what God has said. And that's what I'm teaching you and that's the way this church is going to go. We're getting this church back on God's track. That's where it's going to be and that's where it's going to stay.
45 comments:
If this letter were to apply today, then ALL 5 black people in total , in all of the COGs combined in North America , should take note!
:-)
Satan must have won. Herbert married a Native American
So in other words, a white woman was bemoaning having to be in the same church with black folks and HWA went ballistic after getting drowned in white woman tears. That whole "colorblind" pretense really worked out well, didn't it? No wonder the kids are rejecting it now.
So if you being a white American can’t marry a Russian or German woman, because that’s interracial too.
Oh but I remember RCM would always put interracial marriages and homosexuality in the same sentence, as though they both sinned.
According to Armstrong, it was the main reason the flood happened. What a crock pot.
Isn't it ironic that God actually used Herbert W Armstrong to destroy the WCG?
All things were made by Him--Christ!
But how did He make Adam? The creation account says:
"And God said, Let us make man in out image, after our likeness..."
"Likeness" means facial appearance.
Adam looked like Christ.
...
The Jews are white. Christ was a Jew. So Christ was white.
...
Adam "looked like" Christ. So Adam was white!
Plain Truth Oct. 1963 pg. 6
So we can conclude;
Adam was white because Christ was white
Christ was white because Adam was white
Adam was white because Christ was white
Christ was white because Adam was white
around & round the circular reasoning we go
"I won't compromise one millionth of an inch."
Really? Then how does Herb explain running his church as a tyrannical cult. Why did Herb and his ministers have all rights while his members had none?
This often "I don't compromise" is an attempt to normalize all the bible distortions and member abuse. He was a master deciever and propagandist.
Many black people from various backgrounds to this modern day do not approve or encourage interracial marriages for various reasons.
Woke agenda being used to label a long dead man racist.
In the old fashioned use of the word, race constituted "peoples."
It has always been clear that in Armstrongism "peoples" would return to their respective "homelands" under the rule of Israel. (In the same manner as the USA had created Liberia).
Not in the sense of 3 Races repatriating to 3 designated areas.
Ok, yes by all means HWA was a 19th century (through the American experience) defined "racist."
Yet not in the sense that he did not believe in the equal outcome in death and resurection under Christ.
So it is possible to reinterprete HWAism as "in favor" of diversity and in against "globalisms one race one people".
In a way these 2 words EXACTLY dominate the headlines EVERY DAY 40 years after his death.
nck
And try strolling freely in a rough 'hood day or night if you b' white
Try enrollin' your child as the only white kid in an all black middle school, where fierce little gangs rule
I guess old HWA just sentenced Moses to the lake of fire because of his Ethiopian wife. I am glad he was so full of mercy .
Can’t wait to read: The World in Flames: A Black Boyhood in a White Supremacist Doomsday Cult by Jerald Walker. The book is about his experiences growing up in the WCG. Read some articles from the Painful Truth site about the horrible racism that existed in that cult, and continues its sick legacy in splinters especially like the PCG, Flurry’s doppelgänger of the WCG. The PCG has Black/Singles Weekend, usually in Florida during the summer where Black members can meet up, fellowship and have dances. Interracial dancing is not allowed, and married couples that are IR do not participate, because that culture in that cult makes it uncomfortable for them. Mixed race people, unpaired Blacks, Asians and dark Hispanics are side-lined. Seems like Herbie had more of a thing in particular against Black men marrying white women by his rants. Flurry in an article eons ago had one with White men and Asian women. Can’t remember the article’s name. Then, Denis Leap’s puff “peace” article Beauty in The Races was used to smooth ruffled feathers and give assurances that everyone is equal. Brian Davis gave a Long-winded sermon about IR relationships. Hypocritical garbage. Very cringey. Very Armstrong. Very racist.
Armstrongist anthropology was based on the legendarium of Herman Hoeh. It is not connected to biological reality. For example, in Hoeh's reality, Canaanites were the same as West African Blacks. This did a couple of things:
1. Jews marrying Canaanites is condemned in the Bible. Hence, "Israelites" (read White people) marrying Blacks is condemned by the Bible.
2. Slavery in American History was not really wrong. Canaanites were prophesied to be slaves in Genesis. This was not broadly asserted but you could find people in the ranks who were astute enough to deduce this fallacious conclusion from fallacious principles.
My guess is that there are still people sitting in Armstrongist pews who cherish these "ideals." But, alas, the modern science of genetics is a show stopper. The Canaanites, as it turns out, are not West African Blacks. Canaanites are the modern day Lebanese who are very closely related to the Jews biologically. And the admonitions about intermarrying with Canaanites in the OT is not racially based but religiously based. And the structure of Armstrongist condemnation of racial intermarriage collapses totally.
The last time I looked at Hoeh's "Origin of Nations!", someone edited in a statement saying that Blacks are not Canaanites. I don't know if that was a matter of repentence or laying down a smokescreen.
Also, the Armstrongist racists (a subset) made much of HWA's racial purity, like Noah. But genetics tells us two interesting facts: 1) we are all descended from Blacks 2) Western Europeans have Neanderthal genes in their genome. These two principles encompass HWA. This is the reason why some Armstrongists will always deny the science of genetics. In so doing, they place their racial predilections above the truth.
Let me hasten to add, I do not advocate racial intermarriage. Marriage is a risky proposition at best and should be undertaken only with the utmost caution. The disaster stories are numerous and heart rending. Something that the pulpit does not often mention. People who get married, I think, should be as much alike as possible. This reduces the risk a little.
Scout
6:21
The reasoning is not really circular. It goes like this:
1. God has a humaniform body. So he naturally has a racial appearance.
2. God made Adam in his image, so Adam looked racially like God.
3. Jesus Christ was a White man.
4. Therefore, God, Adam and Christ are all racially White men in appearance.
At this point, if you are a White nationalist or a fan of BI, a related group, you have a beaming smile on your face.
But wait. Some issues, indexed to the numbered statements above:
1. God does not have a body. That is a primtive idea.
2. The Image of God is not a physical appearance. That is a primtive idea.
3. Jesus Christ was not a White man. He was a Mizrahi Jew, was darkly pigmented, with an aquiline nose. There are low class businesses all over the Southern part of the United States where the authentic Jesus would not be welcome.
Scout
And, like so many of HWAs claims, that didnt happen either.
Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. John 14:9 NIV
A lot of black people don’t care about interracial marriage one way or the other So where does that leave your whining about “woke?”
I certainly don't. If a brother or sister finds love with a white person and wants to marry them, it's no business of mine. I've been to weddings of both types. One of the most striking ones I saw was a young sister I knew who married a white man in Alabama. Much of his family refused to attend - but his grandfather, wheelchair-bound and on oxygen, was brought in via pickup truck by a bunch of young (black) men because he was determined not to miss his grandson's wedding.
Gary, your first sentence of your article said all that needs to be said about you, and your character. Very sad, and you pretend to show HWA’s sins??? Pure prejudice is a bad character trait.
HWA kicked a black man out of the church who was a employed member who happened to be just dating a white women. Meanwhile he allowed a white member to marry an Asian woman. He was a hypocrite in this area.
I guess Rahab (Canaanite) was suppose to die and not marry Salmon (Israelite) to birth Boaz.
10:21 wrote, "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father."
This does not mean that God has a visible form like Jesus. A scripture:
"The Son ... Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:"
Jesus is the visible representation of the invisible God. But God could be invisible and still have a form. That's why you should read this:
https://armstrongismlibrary.blogspot.com/2021/11/the-transcendence-of-god-and.html
Scout
BIPOC people in Armstrongism most certainly had to indulge in code-switching to a greater extreme than "in the world", because it was part of the aura of being "converted".
The concept of code switching was not generally known, or perhaps didn't yet have a name back in the 1970s. i worked with a number of people of color during my employment at Ambassador College. I noticed at that time that with the notable exceptions of some whom I knew quite well, our Black colleagues spoke with myself or other white people, they would speak in one manner. When I would hear them speak amongst themselves, the conversation was often more animated, and they would often speak in African-American vernacular, which for a brief time in the '90s, was called "Ebonics".
In spite of workplace formalities, or church behavioral patterns, it is much healthier when people are open, and capable of or comfortable with "letting one another in." It makes it very difficult to have normal, natural, organic friendships when your church teaches you that segregation is God's way. The good news is that you don't have to believe that, or to let it determine what friends you make, or how you treat others.
Here they go again....ridiculous
And a lot do. Being obnoxious might have worked in 1990s on the silent generation but other generations laugh.
Based on recent events, the strongest anti-Semitism seems to be found in the liberal bastions of cities in the Northeast and West Coast. I’ve had Jewish friends in those areas tell me they are terrified with what is going on there. I’ve advised them that they would be welcome in the Southern states.
"Ebonics" was a term crafted in the 1970s, but didnt make it into the popular press until the late 1980s. Now we use different terms - AAE or AAVE most commonly.
However, there are also dialects within the umbrella term - just as white Americans in the South may speak Delta, Appalachian or Tidewater, we pronounce our vowels and clip our consonants differently in different areas. I can always detect someone from Atlanta because they pronounce "y'all" in a distinct manner.
Thanks, RSK, for the updates. I didn't subscribe to Ebony Magazine until sometime during the '80s. Really wanted to learn. i also subscribed to some Chicano publications.
Pompous Herbie wrote:
"I've won every fight I've ever been in."
A few fights that Herbie lost include:
1. The father's fight to provide emotional and physical safety for his daughter.
2. The fight to be #1 in the Universe, after Christ.
3. The battle of the bulge.
4. The divorce fight with Ramona, regardless of whether she was "white" or not.
5. The fight to keep his flog log secret (most definitely the most accurate booklet HWA ever wrote).
6. The fight to prevent interracial and other hookups from happening throughout his church, especially at the Feast of Tabernacles.
7. The fight to soften and subjugate the ego of wanky Spanky Meredith.
8. The fight to squash the Ambassador Report and other dissident publications.
9. The fight to turn the hearts of any of his children to him.
10. The fight to "qualify" for the Kingdom.
Herbie was quite the looser!
I know a black political and religious leader who is against interracial marriage; but at least he has enough common sense not to publicly state that personal opinion.
Herbie's sin was claiming authority from God when preaching the false doctrine prohibiting intimate interracial relationships.
Herbie missed the biblical instruction that there are no more Jews and Gentile because all are one in Jesus.
A huge amount of Herbie's ministry was enmeshed in dividing people and promoting the superiority of white "Israelitish" people, instead of uniting all in Jesus.
Even though some of the ACOG splinters seem to have relaxed some rules on separating the races, all splinters still carry forward Herbie's heresy of "Israelitish" superiority and racism.
What would HWA have done if someone would "aks" him a question?
Easy answer to that one, Joe!
HWA would have done a hatchet job on anyone who aks'd him a question!
Regardless, there was no attempted "black revolution" as HWA tried to paint it, and interracial marriage was never a factor in the splintering of WCG.
How would HWA (or GTA) have settled the quandary today of how it is trendy & "politically correct" & popularly permitted for small shops & stores to prominently place a plaque or sign near it's entrance, stating the establisment is "black owned"...but if a caucasian owner's shop had a sign saying "white owned", it would get blasted on CNN etc.? That sign would be removed quicker than the statue of Hans Christian Heg's in Wisconsin.
Did the racists win but have simply crossed over to other the "other side"? Their new agenda is the grand duty of how it's all meant for one group to play "catch up" to some other historical group.
Why is it ok to have a "B.E.T." channel & a "black community" but if the "white community" developed a Caucasian Entertainment Television channel, ooh...goose & gander.
It's like the "firemen" in 1966 Fahrenheit 451° becoming "firemen" (instead of firemen).
Are our wall calendars better now with a black history month, but no white history month? (or no asian history month/no Arab history month/no Jewish history month)📆
What would HWA do...WWHWAD
Oh, you poor little white folks. You have it SO hard.
Get the fuck out with that nonsense.
and would HWA have snapp'd big time if he saw these sagger guys lettin' their BVD's show or their AOGZ cargo pantz to be fallin' down low-riding...as they publicly display their stankin' plumber's crack out in view đź‘– đź©ł
where yo' gramma & my gramma has to see it
"Oh the black folks took one month out of 12! And then the Asians and Hispanics and Native Americans and Arabs took months too! WHY DO WE NOT HAVE ALL TWELVE??? One channel out of hundreds, how unfaaaaaair! Bring back lynchings!"
Yall got the worst first-world problems.
RSK...this one is mild compared to some that came though which got deleted. These people are filled with so munch animosity and yet think they are God's future rulers on earth. Idiots, all.
Jeez, 9:59! We were having a pleasant discussion about some facts of which many people are unaware, facts which if known, might cause people with a normal sense of empathy and humanity to experience a change of heart. You respond with an ignorant racist rant.
Thank you for identifying yourself as part of the problem! My fear is that unfortunately, you probably vote!
I don't remember the racism being this thick back in HWA's original WCG cult. However, in my recovery from it during the 1980s after a couple years of partying following 1975, I realized that some very negative attitudes and outlooks had been imprinted upon my psyche as part of the HWAcaca. I sought to systematically identify these things and replace them. They had to do with how I felt about myself, and how I felt about other people. I read deeply and widely. I did a Bruce Lee on the self-improvement books, absorbing and combining many techniques into a kind of super program, and personalized it to meet my needs.
A new openness evolved in my approach to life, and as someone who works with a broad cross-section of the general public, I wanted to learn about the people with whom I interact. This is why I subscribed to Ebony magazine, as well as Latino publications, and materials by and for an assortment of other ethnicities.
By the mid '80s, I had it fixed. When ethnic customers walked in to our largely white company, the people at the front desk knew automatically that those were my clients! Eventually, I was hired by a much larger competitor with a huge raise because this reputation had percolated out into the field and it was known that I could open up and expand some new horizons that had been previously neglected. It became an entirely new career path for me. I'm now associated with an international company, working with, and counting as friends, an incredible variety of ethnicities.
One of the first things I noticed about the "dissident" forums, blogs, and Armstrong recovery sites in 1999 was that there did not seem to be a heck of a lot of diversity amongst participants. I did not just want to know how Armstrongism had affected straigjt white men like myself. I wanted to learn the perspectives of women, minorities, members of the LGBT+ community, the guys who had left the ministry, basically the whole encillada. Banned is one place where we actually have that opportunity, and Its a very positive thing that Gary has consistently provided.
It's a given that any time a blog entry which has the potential to educate people away from
(there's no other word for it) ignorance, the ignorant ones will ignorantly, cuelly, and crudely attempt to defend their attitudes. I just hope their stupid comments don't run anyone off!
BB
Correct 4:47 as you wrote, "Even though some of the ACOG splinters seem to have relaxed some rules on separating the races, all splinters still carry forward Herbie's heresy of "Israelitish" superiority and racism."
And that's the little leaven that leavens the whole lump. As intermarriage as stated earlier wasn't even a factor in WCG imploding. But these groups won't repent, or admit that they were/are wrong. It's somehow in their minds a sin or wrong in their ministry.
But somehow I guess Moses sinned when he married an Ethiopian woman, or Joseph when he married that Egyptian woman. It's funny they ignore the instances in the bible but then want you to believe all scripture is inspired to keep certain parts of the old covenant.
We're all one in Christ, but to them it's like "these are out black brethren, or this is a black man who happens to be in the church." Instead of a great team, and the teammates say this is our left fielder or this is our linebacker helping us win. They like to put people in a racial box, at least that's what several tried to do with me.
I was going to vote, but was undecided between Chris Rock or Will Smith, hmm...
hey I know now, Thomas Sowell √
Bob T.'s overseas "ethnic clients" also go to his "front desk" too don't they
Sowell is too old now like Biden and Trump, but he may have more sense.
Nice cheap shot, A.B. Bob T runs an ACOG, so those are not clients, they're his victims. There is a big difference between claiming and exploiting people, or making an honest attempt to learn about others so that we can relate to them as respected equals. Real clients in an honest relationship benefit mutually from one another. But, I guess you wouldn't know anything about that.
Now that I'm sitting at the kitchen table, enjoying a bowl of ice cream with Kahlua as topping, more thoughts on this topic are flowing. If I had not gotten in tune back in the '80s and shed some of the WCG programming, and started liking or loving all the people God made and loves, I just don't see how I would have had the career and life that I have. And the thing is, it was so easy to do, in retrospect! It was actually harder to quit smoking! The Golden Rule applies to all people. It's not supposed to be selective, something that you turn on and off at will. The payback for applying it is that people generally reciprocate with kindness of their own.
One of the books I read had a cool little concept. Enlightenment is a state of openness. The author of the book compared the human mind first to air, simulating this openness. You can swing a baseball bat through the air, and it adjusts as the bat passes through it. There may be some currents, but it is nothing like having all the atoms closer and tighter, compressed into a hard baseball, which the bat can hit, and freely knock all over the place. If you love all people, open like the air, and you are in a social situation, you will not be disturbed when you notice that people different from yourself are present. If you hate certain people, your mind tightly compressed like the baseball, and you look around you and notice that some of the types of people you hate are present, guess what? Your tightly compressed little mind is going to spoil the whole evening for you! You might even end up leaving the gathering. The fact that others are actually enjoying themselves somehow doesn't even make you the least little bit introspective, although it certainly should.
Also, anyone who spends more than 6 months in Armstrongism lapses into some pretty noticeable weirdness that lingers long after you leave.
We, as people, evaluate and judge others. It's our nature to do so, and used properly, it's one of the human survival mechanisms. Now here's the thing. People judge others by the standards of their particular group. What I found to be true is that my new minority friends tended not to notice the weirdnesses which had made me a pariah to most of my fellow non-COG white people while I was an Armstrongite. I found much greater acceptance, in fact, from them. Most likely, we were all on a learning experience together, and it provided a really nice buffer for me to further identify and root out the cultic behavioral patterns.
Lastly, we must remember that there are certain people who get off on shock value. They just try to freak people out, throw them off guard and get a reaction from them. On a blog, we call them trolls, and they can become not unlike a bad infection or a disease. They get pissed off and destructive when they discover that there are controls which can restrict them. Which leads me to the final question. Is it OK to hate such nasty, toxic, despicable people?
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