Rick Shabi of UCG, The Same Old Tired Stuff
A friend recently invited me to review two presentations by the President of the United Church of God, Rick Shabi. The first, The Man of Sin Revealed?, is the same old vitriol against the Roman Catholic Church which only Armstrongites and Protestants of three hundred years ago could truly appreciate. In this instance, he excoriated Pope Francis for allowing the blessing of same-sex relationships. According to Rick, homosexuals need to be kept on the outside looking in – that they are entirely undeserving of God’s blessing! For Mr. Shabi, the Pope has changed God’s Law and made good that which is perverted and bad.
The truth, however, is that the Pope’s recent declaration is far cry from an endorsement of same-sex relationships. As a recent article in America: The Jesuit Review pointed out, “As noted in ‘Fiducia Supplicans,’ Pope Francis’ response to the dubium on blessing same-sex unions ‘provided important clarifications for this reflection and represents a decisive element of the work of the Dicastery.’ While acknowledging that the church ‘has a very clear understanding of marriage...and it is much more than a mere ‘ideal,’’ the pope insists that ‘pastoral prudence must adequately discern whether there are forms of blessing, requested by one or more persons, that do not convey an erroneous conception of marriage. For when a blessing is requested, it is expressing a plea to God for help, a supplication to live better, a trust in a Father who can help us live better.” In other words, the position of that church on same-sex relationships has NOT changed – the Pope was simply calling for a little more kindness toward the folks who find themselves in those circumstances. The article went on to quote Francis as saying: “in our relationships with people, we must not lose pastoral charity…. The defense of objective truth is not the only expression of this charity.” (See How Pope Francis Reconciled Church Teaching with Blessings for Same-sex Relationships)
The not so subtle insinuation of Mr. Shabi’s message is that Pope Francis is probably the “man of sin” referenced in II Thessalonians 2:3. This is all part and parcel of the old Armstrongist message that the Catholic Church is the great false church spoken of in the book of Revelation. He reiterates the Armstrongist interpretation of the “little horn” mentioned in the book of Daniel and pointed to the pope and the Roman Catholic Church as the obvious fulfillment of that prophecy. Of course, he completely ignored the history of Herbert Armstrong’s modifications of God’s Law, and Mr. Armstrong’s horrendous record relative to relating biblical prophecies to current institutions and events. In other words, Mr. Shabi appears to be very comfortable with repeating the mistakes of the past and clinging to understandings which have been thoroughly discredited here and elsewhere over the last fifty years.
Mr. Shabi’s second presentation, A Biblical Worldview, was recorded for the church’s Beyond Today program. In the space of a little over twelve minutes, Rick asserted that the equally discredited notion that the English-speaking peoples of the earth are the descendants of the Israelites of old, and that this “fact” explains the current “decline” that those nations are experiencing. Not surprisingly, this observation centered around some comments by the notorious right-wing commentator, Tucker Carlson. In a speech to Canadians, Tucker noted that the nations of the “Anglosphere” are in trouble, and “they are on the brink of becoming not salvageable.” The former Fox News commentator, also humbly noted that he didn’t fully understand why this phenomenon was happening, “because I am not God.”
Mr. Shabi, of course, seized on the also long ago discredited Armstrong teaching about British-Israelism as the perfect explanation for the phenomenon that Tucker had so eloquently noted. For Mr. Shabi, God had blessed these nations (Britain, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and the United States) because of promises he had made to their “ancestor” Abraham in the distant past. Rick even expanded on Herbie’s teaching a tad by insisting that the United States had drawn its form of government from a passage in Isaiah. For him, this passage from that book demonstrated his point: “For the Lord is our judge; the Lord is our lawgiver; the Lord is our king; he will save us.” (Isaiah 33:22, ESV) You know: judge – judiciary, lawgiver – legislative, king -executive. Don’t worry – it didn’t make sense to me either!
Mr. Shabi encouraged his audience to “Just look at the commonalities of these nations and their mindsets and their beginnings. Is there any other group of nations like them that share such ideals and success? All these nations are, or at least were, Christian nations, generally following the Bible and precepts outlined in it. Those principles, when followed, do result in blessings. And when a nation or individual departs from them, God justifiably takes away those blessings. It is a fact that you reap what you sow.” Of course, he completely ignored in these remarks the FACT that these “Christian nations” stole land and wealth from indigenous peoples all over the earth, engaged in the slave trade and slavery, ravaged the earth, denied status and rights to minorities, and imposed an imperial system on nations weaker than them. Never mind all that, those nations are CURRENTLY engulfed in wickedness and decline!
Yes, I’m afraid that as I listened to Rick Shabi’s messages, I experienced a little bit of déjà vu. Sure, the faces have changed, but the message of the United Church of God is like a blast from the past. The TRUTH is that these messages are basically the same old stuff that Herbert Armstrong preached in the last century. Sad, so sad!
Lonnie Hendrix
59 comments:
Didn't HWA show off as a god in a church?
It should be thought provoking to Rick that the hard right politicians whom some (Like Tucker Carlson) are touting as solution and savior for English speaking peoples are not embracing Armstrongism. These politicians see a correlation between the abandonment of classic Christianity and the downfall of Anglo societies. They do share Rick's willful ignorance of land stealing and slavery, but aside from that, they do not constitute any sort of solution for Rick and the participants in Armstrongism which could reverse our national declines.
I'm not sure that I see decline as being an exclusive of the English-speaking nations. Considering the total panorama, an all-encompassing world view, I see planet Earth and its various life forms as being endangered and in decline. It could be said that we English speakers are extremely self-centered, and are primarily concerned with how what are basically global problems are affecting us. We don't see or understand the Holocene extinction, we are only cognizant in limited ways of its impact on our own state of existence and well-being. Populist politicians have picked up on the idea of secession from the global community, putting our own national interests first, and therefore supposedly returning us to greatness. The problem with that pattern of logic is that the decline of the greater ecology system of which we are part will continue to affect our own decline. Where is there any single nation or region of planet earth that is not affected by decline? In what country are the wealthy not concerned about decline? What religious system or secular philosophical system is not experiencing decline?
How do you even begin to treat such a large scale problem in a way that people will not see as threatening? Any workable solution is a really tough sale. So many solutions have already been attempted and have failed. So many people have left religion because they see it as being one of the failures. As that relates to us, Armstrongism has most certainly failed. The ACOGs today exist in a state of failure, largely a nostalgia thing. Rick Shabi has no solution. He doesn't even offer a workable action plan which would help his people in dealing with and thriving in the declining conditions of a troubled planet. All he can do is attempt to influence the focus of the members. Same old smoke and mirrors.
Rev 17:4 And the woman was clothed [periballo] in purple [porphura] and scarlet [kokkinos], and adorned [chrusoo] with gold [chrusos] and precious [timios] stones [lithos] and pearls [magarites],
Rev 18:16 ... that great city, that was clothed [periballo] in fine linen, and purple [porphuros], and scarlet [kokkinos], and adorned [chrusoo] with gold [chrusos] and precious [timios] stones [lithos], and pearls [magarites]!
Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
Rev 18:21b saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
One thing I noticed years ago, using a little Hebraic hyperbole, when there are two understandings, a right and a wrong one, the ACOG will pick the wrong one :)
Mt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets,
There is a difference between a false christ and a false prophet.
The man of sin is the false Christ but not a false prophet.
The little horn of Daniel 7 is the false Christ not a false prophet
Da 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them;
The little horn arrives on the scene after the ten kings arise.
Rev 5:6 a Lamb standing, as [hos] having been slain [esphagmenen],
Rev 13:3 one of its heads, as [hos] having been slain [esphagmenen] to death
Rev 2:8 ... the First and the Last, who became dead, and lived [ezesen]:
Rev 13:14 ... the beast who has the wound of the sword, and lived [ezesen]
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming [parousia] is after the working [energeia] of Satan with all power [dynamesi] and signs [semeion] and wonders [teras] lying [pseudous]
Ac 2:22 Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles [dynamesi] and wonders [teras] and signs [semeion], which God did by him in the midst of you
After the Antichrist’s ‘resurrection,’ the false prophet will set a system to worship the Antichrist as god. This means that the RCC will be destroyed at the beginning of the Tribulation.
The tribulation will last “A TIME AND TIMES AND THE DIVIDING OF TIME” or FORTY AND TWO MONTHS:
Da 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until A TIME AND TIMES AND THE DIVIDING OF TIME.
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue FORTY AND TWO MONTHS.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them:
All religion will be outlawed and persecuted, as the Antichrist as ‘god,’ will not allow competing worship.
When the Antichrist enters in a covenant with the Jews, probably for the building of a Temple in Jerusalem, there are three and a half years till the Antichrist’s assassination and resurrection, which will be the trigger for world war; the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand was a spark to WW1.
Aesop's fable: The Boy Who Cried Wolf
“The tale concerns a shepherd boy who repeatedly fools villagers into thinking a wolf is attacking his town's flock. When an actual wolf appears and the boy calls for help, the villagers believe that it is another false alarm, and the sheep are eaten by the wolf” (Wikipedia).
Very perceptive comments Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 9:12:00 PM PST! Yes, the whole world is in trouble, but they can't see the forest for the trees. They are busy straining at gnats while the camels are stampeding!
Who am I to judge! What two consenting adults do (sexually) in their private lives is not for me to judge! Didn't Jesus say, "do not judge!".
Well you are from UCG anyway "Lonnie"
I never understood the haughty and snobbish mentality that seemed to permeate Worldwide and too many of its spin offs towards other Christian churches. In today's environment it seems as if they would do better to try seek common ground with church organizations on their common beliefs rather than casting mud and looking down their nose while telling themselves "we're God's anointed" Samaritan's Purse brought a temporary hospital facility to New York during the pandemic to help provide help and care. I guess Flurry was looking for another jet.
The papal secretary comes into the office, looking shaken.
“What is it, my son? Has something happened?” the pope asks.
“Holy Father, there is good news, and bad news. The good news is, Jesus has returned, and he has just called to talk to you!”
“Hallelujah! To think that I lived to be the pope who would lead the Church at the time of the Second Coming of our Lord and Savior! God be praised! … wait, you said there was bad news?”
“Yes, Your Holiness…. He’s calling from Salt Lake City!”
I listened in disbelief as a CNN reporter asked a member of the MAGA base recently why he would continue to support The Donald. The MAGA guy answered, “Because he tells the truth.” Different emotions ran through me: anger, sorrow, sympathy and amazement. The MAGA guy did not seem like a bad guy. He wasn’t strident. Just a typical American calmly making a statement of committed belief. But there was something incomplete about the exchange between the reporter and the MAGA guy. The reporter just cut to another event of interest. The world would have been in balance if the reporter had said, “Has anyone ever told you that you’re as dumb as a rock?”
The Millerite preacher in Lonnie’s post is speaking what his base wants to hear. If he had no base or if his base wanted to hear a different message, he would not be preaching what he is preaching. This cannot be tested in a laboratory so, you know, it’s an opinion for now. But there is an undeniable symbiosis between pulpit and pew. I think that the pews get what they ask for. And there is an outcome for that just like there is for the MAGA guy.
What nobody writes about on this blog or others, is what happens to people who persist in believing falsehood. It is the elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about. And with good reason. Nobody wants to be judgmental. Walking the path of the Pharisees is not what Christians do but what Armstrongists do. Judge not that ye be not judged resonates loudly with those who follow the New Testament. Not so much for those who follow the Old Testament.
But, in fact, something will eventuate with Armstrongists. There is an Eschaton and they will be there. One might imagine an article now done up in PT style that addresses this topic titled “Where is Hebert W. Armstrong Today?” He is, after all, somewhere. I am a Trinitarian Universalist so I think everyone will walk on the golden shore. But there are different ways of getting there. When I think of HWA’s pathway, I don’t get a good feeling.
Scout
Spinning a tale as usual. Is Agatha Christie a hero "Tonto"? Or are you a frustrated writer ?
It is correct that the Catholic Church has not (and cannot) change its teaching on what marriage is.
The problem is that our evil pope obfuscates the truth that sodomy is a grave sin. By offering blessings to those who present themselves as same-sex "couples," he leads people to think it's not such a big deal to live the gay life, when in fact it leads people to hell.
The pope cannot change the Church's doctrines and dogmas, but he can certainly undermine them and thus lead others astray. He will answer for that one day.
You are quite correct Lonnie,
The Anglo sphere is indeed in trouble. And a quick observation of humanity as a whole shows us a very similar pattern of ‘decay’.
Russian writer Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn pondered this phenomenon of decay and its descent into brutality that had befallen his loved Russia during the Soviet period of darkness. He read hundreds of books collected hundreds of personal testimonies and contributed eight or so volumes of his own to formulate as concisely as possible the main cause of the revolution that devoured some 60-70 million of his people.
His simple conclusion was ‘Men have forgotten God,that’s why all this has happened’.
And with that he pointed to the solution.
In my humble opinion, the present Pope, Francis, is a good man - a Christian. His compassion and kindness are legendary. He is more concerned with his pastoral duties than he is with the pomp of his office or the inflexible dogma of the institution he heads. I would also point out that if "COG Catholic" is right about him, then that destroys the Roman Catholic teaching about papal infallibility when speaking ex cathedra.
First, "sodomy" is a complete misnomer - homosexuality was NOT Sodom's problem. Hopefully, we can all agree that gang raping anyone, especially a guest, is a horrendous sin. Is COG Catholic suggesting that homosexuals aren't worthy of receiving God's blessing? If so, then what would you call what happens to sinners when they accept the sacrifice of Jesus Christ? Didn't John say that anyone who is a believer/disciple who claims to be without sin is a liar and that the truth doesn't reside in them? And, while the Roman Catholic Church may view same-sex unions as sins, many of the priests and lay folks who are part of its ranks disagree with that characterization.
Your posts would be much better Lonnie if you could stop with your left wing political bias. See how annoying those and similar terms are? If you truly believe the left talking points it speaks to a lack of a wide scope logic. Regarding Scout’s comment about Trump and truth. I would say Trump doesn’t speak truth in the details, but unlike the left, he is not creating a system that is anti-truth in the conclusions.
The title of this post is: Rick Shabi of UCG, The Same Old Tired Stuff where Lonnie Hendrix wrote: "...The not so subtle insinuation of Mr. Shabi’s message is that Pope Francis is probably the “man of sin” referenced in II Thessalonians 2:3 . This is all part and parcel of the old Armstrongist message that the Catholic Church is the great false church spoken of in the book of Revelation..." and concluded that: "...the message of the United Church of God is like a blast from the past. The TRUTH is that these messages are basically the same old stuff that Herbert Armstrong preached in the last century..."
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The "same old stuff that Herbert Armstrong preached?" This post is dated February 17, 2024.
Well, many years ago, about 27 years ago, in 1997 an individual's sermon titled "God's Government," Part 2, stated the following about the United Ass., and other xcogs and what was in store with their future accomplishments:
"...Well, good afternoon everyone. Last week, on the Sabbath, we started a two-part series here on God’s Government. There has been a lot of talk about God’s Government. If you read and go through all of these other “churches” that we basically mentioned last week, United, and Global, and Philadelphian and all the rest of them: they are all set up really in little different ways. None of them have been set up really by God as we see.
The more we see, and the more we hear: I read some things this week when somebody gave me some material. I kind of glanced over it, and we know that the people are really at unrest with all of these organizations, because nothing’s really happening! Why is nothing happening?
Oh, anyone can go out and get a broadcast. Anyone can put out a magazine. Anyone can write and talk about the same old, tired, stuff.
Now, God’s law is never tired and I don’t mean that at all, but there should be some progression and, obviously, through all of these other groups there is no progression. There is no real true growth and the people know it. Most of them are there just so they can be with other people on the Sabbath and the Holydays, because they do believe in that, and that’s fine and that’s good. Many are Firstfruits, but God’s Spirit is not directing those organizations. He did not put any of those men, or combinations of men, in charge as we went through..."
So, to this speaker in 1997, the output of the xcogs appeared to be: "...the same old, tired, stuff," and here we are in 2024 still hearing folks talking about "The Same Old Tired Stuff" from Rick Shabi.
May we expect anything "new under the sun" coming from any of the uncaring hirelings (John 10:13) who fled from the former WCG, or will it continue to be more of "The Same Old Tired Stuff?"
Time will continue to tell...
John
Good word Scout!
Yea, Armstrongist are so judgmental and fittingly side with more of embracing of the Old Covenant rather than the New. Fittingly Christ mentioned how our righteousness must exceed that of the pharisees snd sadducees. They have that spirit of the pharisees and can't see it.
Lonnie Hendrix wrote: "...The not so subtle insinuation of Mr. Shabi’s message is that Pope Francis is probably the “man of sin”…”
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Is Rick Shabi’s speculation just more of the “same old stuff?”
Let’s look at some old stuff, when on 26 Dec 1998 an individual's sermon titled "God's Government," Part 3, explained how Satan within the WCG deceived us and created a counterfeit form of God's Government to rule over people.
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“If you were Satan, how would you do it?” How would you weasel your way into God’s Church and do something? Would you put your men at the lowest position, or would you put them all at the highest positions as these little “angels of light?” And then gradually turn, turn the whole Body of the Church so when they became scattered they had no regard for God’s Government, no regard for God’s Church, and now they were going to “do it on their own!”...
...We saw a counterfeit government within the Church of God and it’s a very important point. Don’t ever forget this every time you think back on what we all went through!
...What counterfeit did we get there? How did it get there? How could we judge rightly that this was evil? Paul’s talking here and he’s telling everybody this. He says:
2nd Thessalonians 2:1 “Now we beseech you, brethren…”
About, or
“…by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,”
In other words, this first resurrection!...This is by God, by His Spirit!...
…This is what this whole thing is talking about. It says:
3 “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first…”
You look that word up. It means apostasy! It means a going away from God’s truth, and it’s very important:
“…and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;”
In the past: “It was the leader of the beast over in Europe! It was the Pope down in Rome!” Agh! Wrong! Wrong to all of the above! The man of sin, as we have covered in other sermons: God has revealed to be none other than Satan the Devil! Satan himself, and look at what he does! Who has got this attitude?
4 “Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God…”
As a counterfeit! As a counterfeit to God’s true Government sets up his government: he…
“…sitteth…”
He sits as God and he sits…
“…in the temple of God…”
Where is the temple of God?
To be continued…
John
Continuing…
It’s the Firstfruits. It’s the temple that God is building and he sits right in the midst of the Church:
“…shewing himself that he is God.”
This counterfeit! So, guess what? He places all of his little henchmen out there: in where? Well, just as members? No! He puts them all in an awful lot of the places and positions as the ministry, as the faculty and as the “high-up!”
Now, brethren, always keep in mind that even though Satan was allowed to do this: did it take away, did one Firstfruit lose his eternal salvation? The answer is: “No!”
Did it put us all through our paces? Oh, yes, but I guess we needed it so we could learn now the real truth. You know; Mr. Armstrong was “running point!” He was out there doing the work of God, and everything under him kind of got away and it was meant to be that way. It says:
2nd Thessalonians 2:5 “Remember ye not…”
Now, this is at the beginning of the Church, way back there, right after Christ died, right after the Church really got going: this Ephesus era. He says: remember you not, and he’s writing here, I think, about twenty years into this.
“…that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?”
He saw Satan getting involved right away!
6 “And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.”
So, there was a little mystery here and he held it back, but he says:
7 “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work…”
It was already working in the early Church. Satan was there! You know; we’ve always seen Satan as one of the heads of the beast with these 7 heads. But during this time of God’s Church, during this, let’s say two thousand years, these 7 eras of God’s Church: Satan’s not a head of one of the beast’s; is he?
Where would you be if you were Satan? You’d be in, right within the Church of God trying to tear it apart so your “end” would not come upon you. If he could change God’s Plan, then he gets to be off scot-free, but he is dumb and he always forgets the power of God’s Spirit! God’s Spirit will accomplish it. The gates of hell will not prevail against His Church and Satan will die forever!...
...So, the man of sin was sitting in the temple of God, which is the Church, for all of those 7 eras of the Church! It was Satan’s counterfeit government that we saw, and that we judged, and that we hated and that RULED OVER us! It was not God’s Government…"
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We don't need any of Rick Shabi's speculations regarding the man of sin, which was already revealed by the Apostle Paul, or any of the same old stuff, or do we?
Time will tell...
John
So the sermon in 6.55 warned of "no regard for God's government" or "counterfeit government." This from Herb ministers who have forever hidden that a Christian is one who follows Christ, and is directly led by Him.
So in the WWCG, "God's government" excludes God and is just the rule of Herb and his minions.
1:59 wrote, "Regarding Scout’s comment about Trump and truth. I would say Trump doesn’t speak truth in the details..."
Trump seldom ever speaks the truth at any level - he speaks in Newspeak. Read Orwell's "1984". Where we are heading.
Scout
Good for you COG Catholic! You said what I was going to say. Like you, I have no use for this Pope. Contrary to what Lonnie says, he's not a good man. He's a vindictive, spiteful individual who doesn't hesitate to smear and attack anyone who holds to the traditional morality and faith of the church has always professed. And contrary to Lonnie's claim that the pope isn't blessing ssa relationships, why are so many bishops, priests, and laity condemning his latest statement? And why is the gay community wild with joy about it? The only people who believe in Lonnie's interpretation of the Pope's latest statement are folks who have made an idol of Francis, just like the ACOG's have made an idol out of HWA and his successors. Mature Catholics only follow the Pope when he teaches according to the written and oral traditions of the faith.
Lonnie:
Pope Francis is harming the Church and the world by neglecting his duties. He’s more interested in muddling the truth so the Church can appear more worldly: queer-friendly.The teaching of papal infallibility when speaking ex cathedra is NOT destroyed by Francis. Why would you think that — unless you misunderstand papal infallibility and the conditions required for it?
All sinners may receive blessings with the goal of returning to God. But when two people presenting themselves as a smiling “couple” who commit shameful, unnatural, abominable acts with each other, they are manifestly unrepentant. Let them come to Confession. Let them come up for blessings as individuals. Let them receive a blessing each week with the entire parish community rather than approaching as a “couple.” (Imagine a smiling father and daughter presenting themselves as an incestuous "couple,” seeking God’s blessing as they celebrate their “love” for each other!) This is the evil of the pope’s document on blessing adulterous and sodomitic unions. Like I said, it does not overthrow Church teaching, but it does attempt to mask it, which makes the document so wicked.
It’s true there are priests, bishops, and cardinals who don’t agree with the Church’s teachings. That shows only they are evil hypocrites; it does not invalidate the Church’s constant, unchangeable natural law teaching.
Anon, Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 8:41:00 PM PST, said:
"...So the sermon in 6.55 warned of "no regard for God's government" or "counterfeit government." This from Herb ministers who have forever hidden that a Christian is one who follows Christ, and is directly led by Him.
So in the WWCG, "God's government" excludes God and is just the rule of Herb and his minions.
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You wrote: "This from Herb ministers who have forever hidden that a Christian is one who follows Christ, and is directly led by Him."
The Herb ministers didn't forever hide what a Christian is, but the sermon, rather than warn anybody, exposed how we were part of a satanic, or a counterfeit, government of God, while thinking we were under God's Government.
My post comments clearly said: "So, the man of sin was sitting in the temple of God, which is the Church, for all of those 7 eras of the Church! It was Satan’s counterfeit government that we saw, and that we judged, and that we hated and that RULED OVER us! It was not God’s Government."
Think about the fruit of the governments of this world under the reign, the control (not wimpy influence), of Satan, and what do you see? Confusion. Control: lording it over others.
How would Satan, if allowed to reign in God's Church (Rev 2-3), do it? The same way as he does in his world. Lording it over others is one of the biggest characteristics. Spread lies, lots of lies! Hatred! Racism! etc. How about false prophecies, false theories?
We saw a lot of that in the WCG. Satan does not work with a lonely, elderly, widow and strive to turn God's Church upside down. Satan works it "from the top."
God is the same yesterday, today and forever; however, Satan is only the same for yesterday, today and for. There is no "ever," because he will eventually be twice dead.
All of the world is deceived, including Herb ministers: his "little helpers," although we could just simply use the word hirelings to describe them. How much deceived? It's a matter of degree depending on the individuals. We wrestle not flesh and blood.
You concluded with writing: "So in the WWCG, "God's government" excludes God and is just the rule of Herb and his minions."
Think about all of those AC graduates from the former WCG, who went out and later lorded it over congregations. What did they do with all of that knowledge, understanding and wisdom they learned at AC? How much of it did they share with their congregations? How much of what they said came out of their own heads from other sources, other theories, ideas, etc.
HWA did not exclude God, and just run things as the "rule of Herb and his minions."
To be continued…
John
Continuing…
The transcript of Part 3 says: "...Mr. Armstrong set the form of God’s Government within the Church!
What did we really see? We saw a satanic form of government: a counterfeit government. That’s what we lived under and that’s what we judged...
...See, Satan will always take the premise that God sets up. He’ll take one of the laws. He will take one of the things and then he puts his own spin on it so it comes out repulsive. It comes out wrong and it’s so counterfeit..."
Satan made repulsive what was to be good, right, proper Government. One major problem is that Satan's control was over so many and most of us never realized it at the time. The hirelings, driven by “another spirit,” so often did their own thing, did things their way.
One example: Did HWA tell the ministry to keep their noses out of the private lives of members?
{{...Does God's RULE in His Church give ministers authority to intervene even in affairs of the personal life of members? The answer is, YES, but of course rarely, and only in extreme cases where this is necessary. Paul said, "this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should they eat. For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies." (II Thes. 3: I0-1 I ). That is a command that the Church is to command such to work, and if they do not, to take from them all aid given by the Church to help feed them.
God's ministers are required to use wisdom and judgment, and they are never going to interfere in private lives unless there is a BIBLE reason...}}
Now, where did those words come from?
Within the 1957 Good News magazine Article titled “Christ Did Put Authority and RULE in His Church!”, Herbert W. Armstrong on page 23 basically told his “little helpers,” hirelings supporting him, to keep their noses out of the private lives of the members of what he considered to be God’s Church.
History has shown over and over again that many (most?) of the hirelings did their own things contrary to what HWA told them, preached their own thoughts and opinions, and theories and did the opposite of what Mr. Armstrong said. They so often stuck their noses where they didn’t belong and created one stench after another...for decades.
Anything new? That history continues today via the “little helpers” in the xcogs......along with their confusion, because God isn't guiding them to do things decently and in order.
There is no need to blame/judge "Herb and his minions" for all of the evils, as most of those minions were doing things their way (kind of like Korah wanted to do), rather than do what the individual signing their paychecks asked them to do.
Is the Devil (those Principalities) in the details?
Time will tell...
John
Right, COG Catholic, the pope is harming his own church, just like the ministers in the COGs who practice sophistry, casuistry and dissimulation against their brethren. They know what is right but they compromise in order to please themselves and their constituents. It's the spirit of Antichrist which is everywhere, in politics and religion.
So Scout must be a democrat if he doesn't like Trump and sees him as untrustworthy? I guess he hasn't been watching FOX news very much and hearing about all the shenanigans that the democrats have been pulling off against Trump in order to prevent him from running for President?
God gives the nations what they deserve, whether it be tottering and deceitful men, political acrobats or tyrants in order to see your reflection in them and to admit that the Kingdom of God is better.
COG Catholic,
Your comments are usually so thoughtful and logical that I must confess that I am surprised and disappointed by the anti-homosexual vitriol in your comments here. Your background in Armstrongism should make you more wary of such opinionated and dogmatic statements. The organized Church (ekklesia) has been wrong about many things down through the centuries (including the Roman Catholic branch), and human sexuality is probably one of the most glaring examples of this phenomenon. You make the same mistakes which others who share your views make, and both Scripture and nature do NOT support your conclusions. You make homosexuals guilty of adultery while denying them the means to marry - putting them in an untenable situation (they're damned both ways). This may be satisfying to your sense of morality, but it does NOT reflect the compassion and kindness of Jesus of Nazareth toward people in whatever condition he found them. I always wonder how folks of your persuasion resolve the cognitive dissonance inherent in your differentiation between heterosexual and homosexual sins (there is simply no logic to which one can appeal to justify it).
Anonymous Monday, February 19, 2024 at 1:28:00 PM PST,
The Spirit of Anti-Christ is personified by Donald Trump. He represents everything that is contrary to the spirit and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. He doesn't have a humble bone in his body. He is a liar, manipulator, misogynist, greedy, self-centered, foul-mouthed, dictatorial bully. I am NOT a Democrat, but I could NOT in good conscience presently vote for very many Republicans (my former party) as long as that party is in the hands of such a man.
As for COG Catholic, I will say again: If one really believes that the Pope is the vicar of Christ, I don't see how one constructs a rationale for opposing or criticizing him. From my perspective, the Pope's statement on blessings was a kind gesture - but it does NOT go far enough in righting a grievous wrong. Homosexuals are capable of being Christians and have the capacity to follow the Law of Christ. Hence, they should NOT be excluded from the community of believers (Christ didn't exclude anyone).
Unfortunately, there is business in my industry related to Donald Trump and his reelection. I don't get a vote in whether or not I participate. The factory is in the business of pushing units. The coming months between now and November are going to involve a lot of tongue biting and angst for me.
I just seeth inside with the realization that I must perform admirably as I work with churches and politicsl organizations that endorse and promote Trump. Although I bitterly disagree with him and them, the personal code by which I live and conduct business will not allow me to fuck them over. As with anyone else, I must give them my best, knowing that if they knew my real opinions they would hate my guts.
I sincerely hope that nobody else here on Banned has to deal with anything like this. It really sucks.
Lonnie: ...both Scripture and nature do NOT support your conclusions...
Me: Scripture is plenty clear if you take it for what it says. The nature of human anatomy is clear that anal sex (for example) is not sex. It's plainly a harmful abuse of the organs. It's not love. At best it's a misdirected attempt at expressing love.
Lonnie: ...it does NOT reflect the compassion and kindness of Jesus of Nazareth toward people in whatever condition he found them.
Me: In compassion and love, Jesus will forgive anyone of any sin during this life. He doesn't forgive anyone who doesn't want forgiveness. This is basic stuff.
Lonnie: ...I always wonder how folks of your persuasion resolve the cognitive dissonance inherent in your differentiation between heterosexual and homosexual sins...
Me: All sin is against God. Some sins are greater offenses. Murder is generally worse than lying, etc. Common sense. Having "sex" with a billy goat and having sex with one's fiance are both sins, damnable, but the billy goat sin is more serious; it's unnatural, more disordered. Again, however, all sins can be forgiven if repented of.
Lonnie: If one really believes that the Pope is the vicar of Christ, I don't see how one constructs a rationale for opposing or criticizing him.
Me: Catholics don't worship the pope. The vicar of Christ is not Christ (only Christ is Christ). The pope acts with Christ's authority in certain circumstances which the Church has clearly outlined, though Francis is really pushing it. (The Church will surely clarify further one day because of him.)
Lonnie: Homosexuals are capable of being Christians and have the capacity to follow the Law of Christ. Hence, they should NOT be excluded from the community of believers (Christ didn't exclude anyone).
Me: People with SSA can (and should!) be Christians. They have the capacity to follow the Law of Christ, but like everyone else, they also have the capacity to reject it -- justifying their sinful acts. Jesus will respect our final wishes at the judgment. Those who die in mortal sin will spend eternity in hell; those who repent, even as they struggle with the flesh, will one day spend eternity with God.
This is basic Christianity. We can't justify sins based on how strongly we're attached to them. With Christ, we can be free from sin, whether from gluttony, anger, homosexual sins of the flesh, or worse.
Don't call evil good. That won't go over well. Peace.
COG Catholic 2/19 11:57AM said: “Imagine a smiling father and daughter presenting themselves as an incestuous ‘couple,’ seeking God’s blessing as they celebrate their ‘love’ for each other!”
Exactly I was going to express similar sentiments myself! So if the Pope is permitting males and females engaging in sexual activity with those of the same sex to receive a “blessing” from the Catholic Church as if their coupling is sanctioned by the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and Father of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ who never approved of any other sexual activity except heterosexual sex within marriage between a biological male and biological female then I would ask in all seriousness why stop there?! Why not advance to the logical end of such an unlawful, immoral and unnatural choice—as defined by God’s Word—by allowing ALL sexual behavior that is still looked upon with disapproval like pederasty; bestiality; incest; and rape?! If the Pope is going to make exceptions for one sexual sin why not the rest?!
As others have noted (eg
https://michaelhoffman.substack.com/p/in-defense-of-the-indefensible-the) this is yet another example of the widespread apostasy infecting the Catholic Church.
I’m always amazed with how people draw distinctions between the character of Trump and the character of the Dem leadership. In simply comparing him to even Biden. Biden is a misogynist and adulterer, uses fouler language than trump, sold his name to the chinese and ukrainians as vp, involved in the corruption and cover up for his debauched son, is himself a bully, uses lawfare and his position to further a grotesque display of unequal treatment under the law. Spending billions to finance the war in Ukraine for perhaps personal gain/protection. Not pushing for peace and pushing against the continued growth of NATO that knowingly was a perceived threat to the dictatorial Putin resulting in millions of deaths and great loss of resources that could have been used elsewhere. I could go on or turn to the Clintons, but yes, while I recognize the faults of Trump they are not the systemized sort that have hurt our world or our populous as these corrupted dems. Trump kept the peace far better as well, saving many lives.
I wish he was not the likely candidate, but I would never vote for the corrupted dem platform.
Probably shouldn’t wven mention these political issues as this is a site focused on the weongs of Armstrongism. I’ll not furtsay anything more about trump or political parties here.
John,
In you 12.55 post, you quote HWA in his Good News magazine Article titled “Christ Did Put Authority and RULE in His Church!”, as telling his “little helpers” to keep their noses out of the private lives of the members. As has been discussed many times on Banned, HWA laid low when his church was small, and his first wife was still alive. When his church gained numbers and this wife died, he had a mind change. Herb took off his mask and openly became a tyrant. With his top down authority, he could have easily put an end to minister abuse. Historically in American politics, if a politician's staff member broke the law, the politician was held responsible since he chose his staff and its moral climate. That Herb's ministers did their dirty deeds behind his back is ridiculous, and exposes you as a whitewasher of sin and a Herb fanboy.
In Acts 20:29 Paul warns of savage wolves appearing after his departure. HWA was that wolf after his wife's death.
Bravo COGCatholic! You said what I was going to say.
With regard to your first paragraph, Lonnie, the remaining good ones are actually walking away! The count is up to 23 moderate GOP House members who are resigning, retiring, or not campaigning for reelection because the so called "Crazy Eight" are obstructing and obfuscating any forward motion which does not conform to their radical agenda.
The euphemism '"draining the swamp" is frightening once one realizes that it is in reality a removal of checks and balances.
Homosexuality was Not Sodom's problem?! Lonnie, the context of Genesis 19:1-11, Judges 19:22-30, and Jude 7 make clear that homosexuality Was Sodom's problem. Your explanation is classic gay propaganda nonsense. No person who reads the Bible honestly is going to buy it.
COG Catholic,
Are you saying that vaginal/penile intercourse is the only acceptable form of sexual relations? Do you believe that sexual intercourse is only for procreation? OR Do you believe it is also an expression of love between two people? I'm assuming that you believe heterosexual couples should also refrain from anal intercourse? Could you cite scripture(s) which prohibit that behavior?
Yes, repentance is basic stuff, but where is the scriptural evidence supporting confession of sins to a priest and employing him in the capacity of an intermediary between you and God? Isn't NOT going against one's nature also pretty basic? What about personal conscience and conviction? Am I responsible for what you believe to be sin or what I believe that God defines as sin? By the way, I believe that sin for a Christian is failing to love God or each other (and I don't believe neighbor is confined to our brother's and sisters in Christ).
Isn't anyone who wants to be a Christian seeking to do God's will? Isn't that basic? Who are we to judge another man's servant? Isn't Jesus able to make anyone stand before God? Notice also: Revelation 21:21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” 5 And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” 6 And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. 7 The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” How is the continued existence of anyone in eternal torment consistent with this Scripture?
Phinnpoy,
First, in the entire history of humankind, there has NEVER been a city where everyone was homosexual (or even had a majority population of homosexuals). Second, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah is part of the biblical narrative about the importance of hospitality in the ancient world. Hopefully, we can all agree that a plot to gang rape anyone, especially a guest, is a grievous sin. Third, in the book of Ezekiel, we read: "Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them, when I saw it." (Ezekiel 16:49-50, ESV)
Have you ever seen the movie Shawshank Redemption? I'm thinking of the time when Red warned Andy that the "sisters" had taken a liking to him. Andy said "I don't suppose it would help if I told them that I'm not homosexual." "Neither are they. You have to be human first. They don't qualify," Red replied. Rape is about control and humiliation. It has NOTHING to do with desire, love, or intimacy - NOTHING!
COG Catholic said: "Imagine a smiling father and daughter presenting themselves as an incestuous 'couple,' seeking God’s blessing as they celebrate their 'love' for each other!"
Such a relationship would be a clear violation of Paul's axiom that love does no hurt or harm to another and thus fulfills the commandment to love one's neighbor. Such a relationship violates the nurturing role assigned to a father by God. Moreover, as the head of household, the father is in a position of authority over the daughter - making the power dynamic unequal - thus, making true consent impossible. Hence, the psychological harm done to the daughter is self-evident (and I would say that the psychological harm to the father is just as evident). And, finally, what about his wife (the mother) and any other children and family members? Is there any doubt that many people would suffer tangible hurt/harm from such a relationship?
Likewise, as an animal is not the cognitive equal of a human, there cannot be any legitimate claim of consent. Moreover, the potential physical harm to the animal is self-evident. In similar fashion, a child is not the cognitive or emotional equal of an adult, so there cannot be any pretense of a consensual relationship. Moreover, as sexual identity and orientation are still developing in a child, any artificial intrusion or interruption of that development obviously has a strong probability of inflicting real psychological and emotional harm on the child (not to mention the lack of physical development in the child).
Miller, COGCatholic said anal sex was wrong. He has the right to say so as it is associated with health issues. You extrapolate in an effort to change the subject/belittle COGCatholic by asking: "Are you saying that vaginal/penile intercourse is the only acceptable form of sexual relations?" He never said that.
The point is that homosexual sex is a sin. This is fully supported in the Bible. I believe you agree that homosexual sex is a sin and that you refrain. Why defend it?
Anyway, this is a blind spot for you (I don't deny I have some myself), but I will continue to appreciate your good articles and comments.
Your reply is typical Anti-Christian gay propaganda. I've heard this balderdash years ago, and it's just an attempt to rationalize the truth about Sodom and Gomorrah. I trust the Holy Scriptutes to tell me the truth. I don't trust so-called 'Christian' gay apologists who twist them to fit their biases.
ALL types of sexual intercourse are associated with health risks, but they can be minimized with fidelity, respect, cleanliness, and lubrication. I would still like to hear more details about COG Catholic's answers to my questions, as I believe they might reflect on the plausibility/logic/morality of his statements. I believe that homosexual intercourse CAN be a sin - just like heterosexual intercourse CAN be a sin. I personally refrain from any sexual relationships so that my statements on the subject will have moral force among folks with more traditional views of the subject. Phinnpoy says that he trusts "the Holy Scriptures to tell me the truth." Does that include Ezekiel 16:49-50? I would also ask him to cite the passage(s) which identify homosexuality as the sin of those cities.
I believe that Satan deceived humans about their bodies and sexuality in the Garden, and that many believers have perpetuated his lies through the centuries and into the present. For those who are interested in digging a little deeper and going beyond the tired recitation of "clobber" scriptures as proof-texts, I have included some of the posts I've written on the subject below:
https://godcannotbecontained.blogspot.com/2015/02/a-few-questions-about-god-and.html
https://godcannotbecontained.blogspot.com/2017/07/the-bible-marriage-and-homosexuals.html
https://godcannotbecontained.blogspot.com/2017/09/the-bloomington-statement.html
https://godcannotbecontained.blogspot.com/2017/09/the-scriptural-and-philosophical-basis.html
https://godcannotbecontained.blogspot.com/2018/02/adam-and-eve-not-adam-and-steve.html
https://godcannotbecontained.blogspot.com/2015/02/you-didnt-choose-to-be-heterosexual.html
If anyone is interested in doing a little reading, I would be happy to answer any rebuttals to the views expressed in these posts (here or directly on those posts).
Males who love God would not have sexual relations with other males or even hint that that relationship is ever OK or "blessed".
I wonder what some people around here would do if a gay child or grandchild were born into their family. Don't think that that happens? Remember one out of 5,500 newborns are born with such ambiguous genetalia that the doctors must make a judgment call and perform sex assignment surgery. If God allows people to be born as hermaphrodites, you can also be certain that some children are born wired to be attracted to the same sex. Homosexuality is also common in the animal kingdom. Some friends of mine were horrified to discover that their dog was gay.
5.20 Every weakness imaginable exists in the genetic pool. That does not mean that people have a right to surrender to such weaknesses. I've met people with a strong disposition towards cruelty or exploitation. Does this give them to the right to abuse others?
On the contrary, it's by wrestling with one's weaknesses that character is built.
God defines reality. He could have designed humans to be born with no weaknesses. But He chose not to.
Lonnie: Are you saying that vaginal/penile intercourse is the only acceptable form of sexual relations?
Me: Of course. Due to the nature of the parts, that's exactly their job at the moment of climax. Why would we think otherwise?
Lonnie: Do you believe that sexual intercourse is only for procreation?
Me: Of course. That much is obvious. Sex is all about the "reproductive system," not the digestive system.
Lonnie: OR Do you believe it is also an expression of love between two people?
Me: It's not a matter of either/or. It's both/and.
Lonnie: I'm assuming that you believe heterosexual couples should also refrain from anal intercourse?
Me: Of course.
Lonnie: Could you cite scripture(s) which prohibit that behavior?
Me: That's not necessary. The anus is not a sex organ.
Lonnie: Isn't NOT going against one's nature also pretty basic?
Me: Gay sex is not anyone's "nature." It is objectively against our nature, which is not defined by what we feel like doing in our fallen condition. We all have concupiscence, a propensity to sin. That is what we must go against.
Lonnie: What about personal conscience and conviction?
Me: Our conscience and conviction can be malformed. It's our responsibility to form it correctly. Militant followers of Islam are a good example of wrong-headed conviction.
Lonnie: Am I responsible for what you believe to be sin or what I believe that God defines as sin? By the way, I believe that sin for a Christian is failing to love God or each other (and I don't believe neighbor is confined to our brother's and sisters in Christ).
Me: You are responsible for following natural law and divine law.
Lonnie: Isn't anyone who wants to be a Christian seeking to do God's will? Isn't that basic?
Me: Of course.
Lonnie: Who are we to judge another man's servant?
Me: We are no man's judge. It's not our job to condemn another soul.
Lonnie: Isn't Jesus able to make anyone stand before God?
Me: Absolutely not. "His winnowing fork is in his hand, and [Jesus] will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire" (Matthew 3:12). Those who die in mortal sin go to hell.
Lonnie: How is the continued existence of anyone in eternal torment consistent with [Revelation 21]?
Me: I don't understand your question. The saved will spend eternity with God ("heaven"); the lost will spend eternity without God ("hell," the "second death").
A couple of points, possibly related to design and intent, or perhaps evolution.
1) Is the anus capable of any sort of orgasm similar to what the female vagina experiences?
2) There is a medical condition called "Gay Bowel Syndrome" which happens over a prolonged period of time, which if I understand correctly, pretty much destroys the form and function of the anal canal.
3) Humans normally avoid contact with feces for various reasons. Why would anyone willingly submit their genetals for such exposure?
Having submitted these points for discission, I must point out that I would not treat another person cruelly if I knew they indulged in such things, I simply don't understand them.
Lonnie, you asked me what passages identify the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah. Genesis 19:1-12, especially verses 5-12, make it obvious the Sodomites wanted to have unnatural sex with the men, 'know' being a euphemism for sexual intercourse.
Ah yes, Ez 16:49-50 supposedly being the real sin of the twin cities. You really know how to cherry pick fella. The entire chapter is about how Judah committed spiritual harlotry with the Gentile nations around them. Actual fornication and adultery took place as well. Verse 50 says, "They were haughty, and did abominable things before me, therefore I removed them, when I saw it." Genesis 19 tells us the main abominable thing was homosexuality, and the removal 2as fire and brimstone.
Anon 833 says, "I would not treat another person cruelly".
Nor should we! The love of God defined in scripture is concerned with HOW we treat people, and no-one, including our enemies, is exempted.
" Love your enemies, DO GOOD to them that hate you . .", Matt 5:44
"All things you would have men do unto you, DO YOU even unto them, for this is the point of the law and the prophets", Matt 7:12.
After citing the last 6 of the 10 commandments, Paul says, "if there be any other commandment, it is summarized in this saying, thou shall love the neighbor as thyself", Romans 13:9
The greatest act of love we can do for our fellow man is to tell them the truth, not leave them in a state of helplessness, for "Love rejoices not in iniquity but rejoices in the truth, 1 Cor.13:6.
The real Christ came into the world to save sinners (1 Tim.1:15), not to promote a social agenda.
"They that are whole need not a physician, but they that are sick, for I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance", Luke 5:31-32.
The true Gospel offers hope to the sick, not an affirmation to continue living as one pleases. People need help, not someone who "gets them", or lies to them about what is love or hate.
Christ says, " I am the light of the world. He that follows me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of lights", John 8:12
"If you continue in my word, then you are my disciples indeed, and you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free", John 8:31-32.
Those freed should "walk while you have the light, lest darkness come upon you. He that walks in darkness knows not where he goes", John 12:35.
The stumbling block is that " men love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil" (John 3:19), and this world is hell bent on keeping them in that condition, for "the whole world lies in wickedness (1 John 5:19), and " many false prophets are gone out into the world, who speak OF the world, and the world HEARS them", 1 John 4:1,5.
The Super bowl ad, "He gets us", (see Banned post at 2/20/24), with its promotion of a false Christ and a false Gospel, is a good example of this!
He gets us:
Hebrews 2:14 Because God’s children are human beings—made of flesh and blood—the Son also became flesh and blood. For only as a human being could he die, and only by dying could he break the power of the devil, who had the power of death. 15 Only in this way could he set free all who have lived their lives as slaves to the fear of dying.
16 We also know that the Son did not come to help angels; he came to help the descendants of Abraham. 17 Therefore, it was necessary for him to be made in every respect like us, his brothers and sisters, so that he could be our merciful and faithful High Priest before God. Then he could offer a sacrifice that would take away the sins of the people. 18 Since he himself has gone through suffering and testing, he is able to help us when we are being tested. (NLT)
You are WAY too into this subject.
1:28 wrote, "So Scout must be a democrat if he doesn't like Trump and sees him as untrustworthy?"
Overall, I am a conservative. I used to be a Republican but now I am an independent conservative. I shifted when the Republicans started worshipping Trump like an idol. What I can tell you is that the Donald is not a conservative. He is a populous autocrat. Liz Cheney is a conservative. The Donald's conservative/liberal politics depends on which direction the wind is blowing. And Faux News is not news. The consensus of everyone who knows anything about current events and politics is that it is an entertainment channel. Unfortunately, its most avid listeners do not understand this.
Scout
Well, I'm sure there are a bunch of us who are normally fairly conservative but have found since 2016 that it's just not safe to be or to vote Republican.
Following Charlottesville, I began to appreciate Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer as the patriots and heroes they most likely always have been.
I am also thankful for the integrity of the court systems of New York, and brave people like E. Jean Carrol, Michael Cohen, and wonderful companies like Dominion.
It is reassuring to know that the Russian information used as the basis for the GOP impeachment of President Biden was totally manufactured and has no basis in fact.
We might just make it through all of this yet, and back to safer, more common sense based times. I haven"t opened my carton of Newports just yet!
8:33AM
All excellent points which is why I always have been and always will be wholly opposed to anal sex period! While I might consider oral sex if asked by my wife—despite it always having been unappealing to me—never ever would I consider anal sex!!!
Re point 2 I remember learning about this decades ago when I was just a teenager and it was another reason cementing my objection to anal sex even for heterosexuals. The injuries that can be caused to the anal sphincter and the resulting incontinence to both men and women make it just not worth it. Besides it’s just plain gross!
Wow! I can’t believe how otherwise rational people cannot recognize the harm that the Dem party has done with its unregulated borders (more crime, drugs, etc), with its lawfare and unequal treatment under the law, with its corruption from the top and its own vulgar language and bullying, with its social engineering that has directly led to more gender confusion, with its racial agitation, with its anti police bias that has led to more crime, with its embrace of all critical theories, with its foolishness in supporting the expansion of NATO which has contributed to or guaranteed that evil Putin would invade Ukraine resulting in millions of lost lives and trillions of dollars in damage and military spending, etc.
I just don’t see a reciprocal litany of faults on the republican side. It seems that all the focus is on Trump. Trump the dictator they say and yet he hasn’t started or exacerbated wars. He can’t even do anything to protect people rotting in jail for over 3 years for getting caught up in a protest that got out of hand but gets called an insurrection (a gunless toothless “insurrection”). He supports the 2nd amendment which is counter to dictators. And, most importantly, checks and balances and the vast majority of Republicans would dump him if he ever seemed inclined that way.
Trump immediately lost a lot of support when he began advocating for the covid vaccine; his support is based on freedom for the general population and protection of American interests (no more no less).
He is a narcissist and believes his support is more secure than it is, but if he ran counter to those principles his support would crumble.
Anon, Tuesday, February 20, 2024 at 6:57:00 AM PST, said:
"...John,
In you 12.55 post, you quote HWA in his Good News magazine Article titled “Christ Did Put Authority and RULE in His Church!”, as telling his “little helpers” to keep their noses out of the private lives of the members...That Herb's ministers did their dirty deeds behind his back is ridiculous...
In Acts 20:29...Paul warns of savage wolves appearing after his departure. HWA was that wolf after his wife's death.
******
HWA wasn't the wolf, but he, like Paul, often warned about wolves.
John 10:12 "But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
:13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep."
The wolf is the thief, the robber, striving to get into the Kingdom of God somehow, someway, but cannot/ will not succeed at doing that.
We don't wrestle flesh and blood, because the real instigators are the principalities in accordance with Ephesians 6:12.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]."
Do you want to believe something else? Fine, go ahead, but Satan controls those, like pawns, who are his:
2 Cor 11:13 "For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
:15 Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."
They's intermingled within God's Church for the past approximate 2,000 years (Rev 2-3).
You quoted Paul, the one who was inspired to tell us about 2 Cor 11:13-15, who gave us the following:
Acts 20:28 “Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.”
Paul understood what the principalities were doing. He didn't wrestle, blame/judge, human beings as the source of problems within God's Church. You may want to consider: I John 3:8, 12; 2 Tim 2:26; John 8:44.
Will you continue to wrestle flesh and blood?
Time will tell...
John
Miller Jones/Lonnie C Hendrix, Tuesday, February 20, 2024 at 4:42:00 PM PST, said:
"...Phinnpoy says that he trusts "the Holy Scriptures to tell me the truth." Does that include Ezekiel 16:49-50? I would also ask him to cite the passage(s) which identify homosexuality as the sin of those cities..."
******
Lonnie/Phinnpoy,
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]." Ephesians 6:12
"He beholdeth all high [things]: he [is] a king over all the children of pride." Job 41:34
p and p: principalities and pride?
"Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:" Eph 2:2
pp & c: principalities pride and children of pride/disobedience
Pride (Ezekiel 16:49-50) , disobedience, are some of the fruits of Satan's spirit, that king, that god of this present evil world.
I found the following partial transcript of a sermon titled, Satan's Life and Death, Part 1, to be helpful to understand the above in connection with sins [[I John 3:8 (any sin), 12 (murder); 2 Tim 2:26 (world held captive); John 8:44 (lusts)]]:
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"...If you’re unrighteous, it’s Satan’s spirit that’s doing it and he is talking here, as you will see: that he’s talking here about Satan and all of his angels.
[Romans 1:]19 “Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them.”
See, they already know! They’ve been there, brethren! They know God! They know His way.
20 “For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they…”
These angels and Satan:
“…are without excuse:”......
…...If you’re unrighteous, it’s Satan’s spirit that’s doing it and he is talking here, as you will see: that he’s talking here about Satan and all of his angels.
19 “Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them.”
See, they already know! They’ve been there, brethren! They know God! They know His way.
20 “For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they…”
These angels and Satan:
“…are without excuse:”……
……Romans 1:21 “Because that, when they knew God,…”
See, they were there at the beginning. They knew God…
“…they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.”
Remember: they are those angels of darkness.
22 “Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,”
And they are going to die someday!
23 “And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.”
See, they tried to get people to worship the creation rather than the Creator.
24 “Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves”
These things are weird and they’re perverted.
To be continued…
John
Continuing…
Now, this is the way that they work within humans, but God still says here:
[Romans 1:]25 “Who changed the truth of God into a lie,…”
They took everything about the Plan of Salvation, everything about the Father, everything about Jesus Christ and turned it into a lie!
Look at this world!
Look at the so-called Christianity of this world. They believe a counterfeit Christ. They do not believe Jesus Christ. They believe in a counterfeit Christ: a satanic Christ. See, they changed the truth of God into a lie…
“…and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.”
26 “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections:…”
So, He allowed them to just go completely berserk, insane, perverted, weird, going against everything in nature that God did.
Now, these demons, these angels of Satan: they caused people to be homosexual. They caused people to steal. They caused people to lie. It is their spirit, and mind that they project on human beings that causes this. He says:
“…for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:”
Romans 1:27 “And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
28 “And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge,…”
This isn’t man! This is Satan and his angels!
“…God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;”
They are not right! He’s not talking about men!
You see the result of what happened right here in the actions of the human race, because Satan controls the human race. Satan does not influence them. He controls them.
He would like men to believe that he just influences you and that when you step out of line and you sin: “Then, you’re going to go to hell! Then, you’ve blown it and you’ve blown salvation.” He would love to have everyone think that way and, for 6,000 years, most everyone has. He has been quite thorough in what he has done.
Let’s continue here, in verse 29, seeing what the attitude is. When you see any of these things within a human being, know that you are seeing that satanic drive within them and it’s his fruit that is coming out in a human being..."]]
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Do these scriptures help shed more light on truth?
Time will tell...
John
MJ/LCH said:
COG Catholic said: "Imagine a smiling father and daughter presenting themselves as an incestuous 'couple,' seeking God’s blessing as they celebrate their 'love' for each other!"
Such a relationship would be a clear violation of Paul's axiom that love does no hurt or harm to another and thus fulfills the commandment to love one's neighbor. Such a relationship violates the nurturing role assigned to a father by God. Moreover, as the head of household, the father is in a position of authority over the daughter - making the power dynamic unequal - thus, making true consent impossible. Hence, the psychological harm done to the daughter is self-evident (and I would say that the psychological harm to the father is just as evident). And, finally, what about his wife (the mother) and any other children and family members? Is there any doubt that many people would suffer tangible hurt/harm from such a relationship?
Likewise, as an animal is not the cognitive equal of a human, there cannot be any legitimate claim of consent. Moreover, the potential physical harm to the animal is self-evident. In similar fashion, a child is not the cognitive or emotional equal of an adult, so there cannot be any pretense of a consensual relationship. Moreover, as sexual identity and orientation are still developing in a child, any artificial intrusion or interruption of that development obviously has a strong probability of inflicting real psychological and emotional harm on the child (not to mention the lack of physical development in the child).
It isn’t consent between persons that legitimizes an act as moral and lawful by God. It is God’s Word alone that does.
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