Our one and only self-anointed, narcissistic, dream machine of idiocy is back today hyperventilating over 5 red heifers that a Christian farmer from Texas sent to Israel recently. This kind of irrelevant lunacy that certain crackpot prophets of the Church of God focus their energy upon shows how spiritually bankrupt they are as so-called church leaders.
The leader of any church organization anywhere on earth (Church of God or mainstream Christianity) knows, or should know that their focus should be upon the ONE the claim to follow and not on idiocy concerning made-up prophecies and/or myths and legends of various peoples groups.
Being a follower of Jesus Christ is not a priority of the current flock of crackpot Church of God leaders. Look at the topics of their sermons, booklets, magazine articles, and website posts and you will not see Jesus mention all that much, and if he is, it is a byline towards the end of a booklet or article and then only as proof that he kept Torah perfectly.
Ask the blubbering fools about the law and they can preach and write till hell freezes over and when it does will still have more to say about it. Talk about Jesus and the things that were accomplished and you can hear a pin drop in the local Union or Masonic Lodge hall.
5 Red Heifers and Year 5783?
The Temple Institute announced that “5 perfect, unblemished red heifers arrived in Israel from the USA” on September 15, 2022.. Chanan Kupietzky, an Orthodox Jewish teacher, pointed out that last year was 5781 in the Jewish calendar, pointing to the year these red heifers were conceived, 5782 is when they were to arrive in Israel, and that the year beginning sunset September 25, 2022 is supposedly 5783, which is supposed to be the year of red heifer redemption. Is that the correct year anno mundi (year of the earth) or is 5989 to 5992 more in line with history? What about the claimed Shemitah year? Might the appearance of a proper red heifer encourage the Sanhedrin to begin regular animal sacrifices? Might political considerations result in the resumption of animal sacrifices? Does the Bible show that animal sacrifices in Israel will be stopped? Does possibly having a red heifer mean that a massive Jewish temple is about to be rebuilt in Jerusalem? Do Christians need the sacrifice of Jesus or the blood of a red heifer to be purified? How close do we seem to be for Daniel 9:27b to be fulfilled?
If it happens, it happens, if it doesn't, it doesn't.
17 comments:
WWCG ministers spoke HWA's name many more times than Christ's. Whenever my minister used the phrase "the Lord Jesus," he (mis)used it to justify abusive behavior.
This red heifer thing has been going on for over twenty years in Evangelical circles. And, we've made people aware of how the preservers of the oracles (Jews) have numbered the years, and how this differs from the speculative equations taught as fact at Embarrassing College during the 1960s, prior to their failure in 1972-75.
So, what is Thiel doing, suddenly picking up on these things now?
To use professional, objective, and analytical terminology, teachers of Armstrongism do not know their asses from a hole in the ground.
Regardless of how crazy Thiel is, the red heifer is important to the end-time developments. If you don't understand why... it's your problem.
Anon, Friday, February 16, 2024 at 1:05:00 AM PST, said:
"...This red heifer thing has been going on for over twenty years in Evangelical circles. And, we've made people aware of how the preservers of the oracles (Jews) have numbered the years, and how this differs from the speculative equations taught as fact at Embarrassing College during the 1960s, prior to their failure in 1972-75.
So, what is Thiel doing, suddenly picking up on these things now?
To use professional, objective, and analytical terminology, teachers of Armstrongism do not know their asses from a hole in the ground.
******
Anon, you asked: "So, what is Thiel doing, suddenly picking up on these things now?"
Bob Thiel added to "the speculative equations" with some very important speculative words, such as:
"...is supposedly...is supposed...Might...Might...possibly..."
The phrases "second coming," "unpardonable sin," and "third resurrection" do not exist in the Bible, but "red heifer?" The phrase "red heifer," as far as I understand, is found in one place, Numbers 19:2, and that red heifer was given to Eleazar the priest:and was burned up. It no longer exists: done deal! So, why is Bob Thiel so enthralled with red heifers?
Bob Thiel asked: "...Do Christians need the sacrifice of Jesus or the blood of a red heifer to be purified?..."
Perhaps, Bob Thiel might do himself a favor by explaining the answers to the following questions:
Why did God ask for sacrifice(s) in the first place?
What do sacrifices picture?
When did Christ NOT have His throat cut, and His body burned?
Why did Christ's sacrifice not do away with all sacrifices once and for all?
Why must sacrifices be re-instituted in the Kingdom of God?
Did Christ die because you sinned?
Will Bob Thiel, without using speculation, get off of that "red heifer" thingy and answer some (one?) of these questions for us?
Time will tell...
John
The evangelical-fundamentalists dispensationalists have always been obsessed with the restoration of Israel under the Mosaic law. The low church Protestants have always had a Judaizing strain in them from the time of John Calvin, so it shouldn't be surprising that various forms of Judaizing would develop among them.
With his talk of red heifers, even Bob can no longer dispute that his pronouncements are full of bull !
Please make my RED HEIFER , "medium rare" and please pass the A-1 sauce.
The red heifers mean absolutely nothing. The Mosaic law was abolished in 33 AD by Jesus's sacrifice that fullfiled that system. Read Hebrews, and pay attention to Hebrews 8:13. It faded away in 70 AD with the destruction of the temple.
The command in Numbers 19 requires several elements to be satisfied. Two of them are:
• Eleazar
• a blemish-free red heifer
That command was obeyed. To repeat it, you need BOTH elements. As a result, given the absence of Eleazar, it cannot be repeated until the White Throne Judgment. Yes, the rabbis have added to Scripture to come up with their own schemes, but the rabbis' schemes are not obligatory for Christians. In fact, Christ came to abolish the rabbis' presumptuousness.
Bob's pattern is to find Catholic, Mayan, and Rabbinic ideas which he mixes with his Christianity. Christians, however, should know that the rabbis' fuss over the red heifer may play into how the Jews act in the end-times, but will not impact Christian belief or practice.
My "problem" (your thinly veiled accusation) is that the Evangelicals have been attempting to foment the end times by devoting much time and many resources into breeding these heifers. Why not let God make a perfect, unblemished beast available in His time, rather than presumptuously taking an "If we build it, He will come" approach.
There's the passive "let it happen in God's good time" approach, but many of the people who are into prophecy try to manipulate God, activist style, by creating the circumstances. I'm sure that God is happy that people are anxious for the return of Jesus, but much harm is done by human leaders losing all semblance of common sense and attempting to force it. Didn't we already suffer enough at the hands of such people?
Hi, Phinnpoy,
You write:
“The Mosaic law was abolished in 33 AD by Jesus's sacrifice that fullfiled that system. Read Hebrews, and pay attention to Hebrews 8:13. It faded away in 70 AD with the destruction of the temple.”
From reading both the OT and NT, including Hebrews, this is not a conclusion that I can make from the Bible.
Ne 10:29 They clave to their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse, and into an oath, to walk in God's law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the LORD our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes;
For me “God’s law” (AV)/“Law of God” (NIV) was not abolished in 33 AD.
(While Christ died on a Friday I prefer Friday of AD 30 date rather than the Friday of 33 AD).
"JESUS BY HIS DEATH RENEWED THE COVENANT... Why call this covenant a "New covenant" especially since most of the content adduced in the "New" is but a repetition of those promises already known from the Abrahamic-Davidic covenant already in existence?...
"... the New is more comprehensive, more effective, more spiritual, and more glorious than the old - in fact, so much so that IN COMPARISON it would appear as it were totally unlike the old at all...
"We conclude then that this covenant was the old Abrahamic-Davidic promise renewed and enlarged..." (Walter C. Kaiser, Jr., Towards an Old Testament Theology,), pp.268 & 231-234).
That is OC - God's law without the Spirit and the NC - the law of God with the Spirit.
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Taking Heb 7:12 in isolation and concluding that the priesthood has been changed, even abolished, is “bad” exegesis, especially so when dealing with ancient-Near Eastern literature.
Mt 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
It is similar to taking Mt 12:40 in isolation and concluding that this is literal, not an idiom.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
While Isa 28:10, in context, does not mean what the ACOG’s argue, it is nonetheless “good” exegesis.
That is drawing all the texts together on a subject and then drawing the right conclusion.
Heb 8:4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts ACCORDING TO THE LAW:
Jer 33:14 ... days are coming...
Jer 33:15 IN THOSE DAYS AND AT THAT TIME:
Jer 33:18a ... for the priests, the Levites, there will not be cut off [karat] an individual before me making whole offering rise...
Jer 33:20 Yahweh has said this. IF YOU PEOPLE COULD ANNUL MY PLEDGE ... THAT DAYTIME AND NIGHT WOULD NOT HAPPEN AT THEIR TIME, ALSO MY PLEDGE COULD BE ANNULLED WITH ... THE LEVITES, the priests, my ministers... (John Goldingay).
Eze 44:15 But the priests the Levites ... they shall come near to me to minister unto me, and they shall stand before me to offer unto me the fat and the blood, saith the Lord GOD:
When I draw all the texts together I do not see that the Law of God has been abolished, at least in regard to the levitical priests.
Eze 43:5b and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house.
Eze 43:7 And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever,
Eze 44:2 Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut.
During the Messianic Age the outer east Gate of the Millennial Temple will be closed as Jesus has no intention of leaving the Temple. To prevent the Shekinah from leaving animal sacrifices will be required for “purifying the flesh” and hence the yearly cleansing of the Temple (Eze 45:18-20).
John writes:
“Perhaps, Bob Thiel might do himself a favor by explaining the answers to the following questions:”
I will give my answers instead, with emphasis on the Millennium.
WHY DID GOD ASK FOR SACRIFICE(S) IN THE FIRST PLACE?
Forgiveness, cleansing and fellowship.
Eze 40:39 And in the porch of the gate were two tables on this side, and two tables on that side, to slay thereon the burnt offering and the sin offering and the trespass offering.
Eze 44:26 And after he [the priest] is cleansed, they shall reckon unto him seven days.
Eze 46:24 Then said he unto me, These are the places of them that boil, where the ministers of the house shall boil the sacrifice of the people.
"As he had done through Moses ... through this prophet Yahweh reveals his magnanimous provision for forgiveness and fellowship with him" (Daniel I. Block, The Book of Ezekiel Chapters 25-48, NICOT, p.659).
I have noted “cleansing” as per 44:26f in addition to Daniel Block.
WHAT DO SACRIFICES PICTURE?
While the sacrifices do ‘picture’ Christ’s sacrifice — no one sacrifice could ever suffice — this was not in the mind of an OC offerer.
WHEN DID CHRIST NOT HAVE HIS THROAT CUT, AND HIS BODY BURNED?
1Co 5:7b For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
Are you implying that Paul is wrong to say that Christ was a passover sacrifice because he didn’t have his throat cut?
WHY DID CHRIST'S SACRIFICE NOT DO AWAY WITH ALL SACRIFICES ONCE AND FOR ALL?
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Christ’s sacrifice was for purging of the “conscience” not for the purging of the flesh. When the NT theocracy is established animal sacrifices will be required
WHY MUST SACRIFICES BE RE-INSTITUTED IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD?
As per above forgiveness, cleansing and fellowship.
Eze 45:17 It will be the duty of the prince to provide the burnt offerings, grain offerings and drink offerings at the festivals, the New Moons and the Sabbaths - at all the appointed feasts of the house of Israel. He will provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings and fellowship offerings TO MAKE ATONEMENT for the house of Israel. (NIV).
"The majority of dispensationalists have argued that the sacrifices are memorials to the sacrifice of Christ, with no atoning character. However, the idea that these are memorial sacrifices is no where apparent in Ezekiel, and it is specifically claimed by Ezekiel that these offerings will make atonement (45:15, 17, 20)" (Ian M. Duguid, Ezekiel, NIVAC, p.521).
Lev 15:31 Thus shall ye separate the children of Israel from their uncleanness; that they die not in their uncleanness, when they defile my tabernacle that is among them.
"... those who suffer from major impurity defile the sanctuary and its contents, even if they have not had direct contact with them. This is suggested by the simple fact that those suffering from a major impurity must bring a purification offering (Lev 12:6; 14:19; 15:15)" (Jay Sklar, Leviticus, TOTC, p.52).
Christ’s sacrifice does not negate the dynamic aspect of certain sins and certain ritual impurities. When these types of offences are committed the sin/impurity also “releases” impurities that ‘aerially’ attach to the sancta and need to be cleansed.
DID CHRIST DIE BECAUSE YOU SINNED?
Yes.
It could be argued, that a sincere Israelite was more aware of his sin than a Christian. When he brought his sacrifice it cost him something such as a valuable lamb. Not only that as the offerer slit his sacrifice’s throat he would have had impressed upon him that it was not the lamb that should have been killed but himself; and he would have been gratefully that God provided a substitute to pay the penalty for his sin.
I ‘googled’ YouTube on ‘Red Heifer’. And was totally inundated with numerous videos on the topic. The opinions on this are as numerous as Armstrong splinter groups.
And Christ said to the generation before Him, no sign will be given them except the sign of Jonah. This was the sign He was the One who the scripture spoke off to Israel.
And His return shall be as it was in the days of Noah.
And of course there are other scriptures to point us to His return.
We don’t need red heifer’s to point us to Christ's return.
Jesus did not focus our attention on red heifer’s at all or make reference to them.
That said I do prefer my steaks like Tonto, medium rare with just a dash of sauce, kosher sauce of course.
Isn't Bob's point mostly that he actually agrees with you all, in that the red heifers are indeed insignificant?
Despite all the ecumenical & sanhedrin-al hype over the TX cattle, wasn't the jist of Bob's lesson, that : the 3rd Temple has been here for roughly 2024 años already...& it's comprised of NT Christians, not bricks?
Many church people cannot distinguish opinion from doctrine. The amount of extra-Biblical baggage in Armstrongism is a phenomena of its own. And, there are people who believe that this is just as binding as scripture.
who was the MN female who had to serve as UCG Steve Allwine's sacrifice...
Anon, Friday, February 16, 2024 at 3:15:00 PM PST, said:
"...I will give my answers instead, with emphasis on the Millennium.
WHY DID GOD ASK FOR SACRIFICE(S) IN THE FIRST PLACE?
Forgiveness, cleansing and fellowship...
WHAT DO SACRIFICES PICTURE?
While the sacrifices do ‘picture’ Christ’s sacrifice — no one sacrifice could ever suffice — this was not in the mind of an OC offerer..."
******
Have you ever considered that some of these sacrifices picture not Christ, but picture the killing of Satan?
Time will tell...
John
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