Lil'Stevie Flurry popped his self-righteous cork the other day about the tragic fires in CA. Lil'Stevie is still upset that the State of CA went after the Worldwide Church of God for misuse of money back in 1979.
He starts off with the perpetually angry god of the PCG who revels in killing people and destroying property through earthquakes, floods, and fire. The Flurry's have created a pissy little god that is mad about everything they tell it to be mad about. Those rebellious, filthy people in California need to be punished, so do as we say and burn them up! We are not like them lord! Make them pay for their sins, unlike we, who are perfect in your sight.
But even worse, the impotent little god of the PCG is still pissed off in 2025 with the California government for daring to sue the WCG. How dare they!
Hollywood liberals and establishment politicians may consider themselves too sophisticated to believe it, but the Bible says God punishes us with “natural” disasters. Isaiah 29:6 says, “Thou shalt be visited of the Lord of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire.” California certainly is being “visited” with “the flame of devouring fire” this week. And as far back as 2003, my father, Trumpet editor in chief Gerald Flurry, has pointed out that California’s mega-drought is a result of this state’s rebellion against God and His law. Specifically, my father has pointed out that God is punishing California for the vicious legal attack it launched against the late Herbert W. Armstrong in 1979.
“In an overt attack against Mr. Armstrong, the state of California, through the attorney general’s office, launched a massive lawsuit against the [Worldwide Church of God] in 1979,” he wrote in his December 2003 article “Is California Under a Curse?” He continued:
On January 3, that office initiated a sudden, armed assault on the Pasadena headquarters, in an attempt to claim ownership of the Church’s property and assets as well as its continuing income—in violation of the U.S. Constitution. A receiver, secretly appointed by the court, tried to take over and operate God’s Church. Completely false, outrageous and baseless allegations of financial mismanagement were made—despite financial and all other required records having been regularly and voluntarily filed. No evidence of wrongdoing was ever found, and on Oct. 14, 1980, the attorney general dropped all charges and dismissed the case. Later, the higher appellate court ruled that the lawsuit was without foundation. California is the only state that ever attacked Mr. Armstrong and his work. Actually, it attacked a lot more than that. California really attacked the living God!
California has been saturated with God’s warning message probably more than any other state. Yet rather than turn to God in repentance, the people of this state attacked Mr. Armstrong and the Church of God before going on to promote “gay pride,” the “lgbtq+ agenda” and “San Francisco values.” Even in the midst of the wildfires, the California media is praising the efforts of lesbian firefighters rather than repenting.
California has not been saturated with warnings from Armstrong or Flurry. How can a "thing" from "someplace" be a warning to anyone? Who even knows what that thing is? How can a man who was embarrassed to talk about Jesus issue any warning to anyone, and why would ANYONE ever listen?
You've never heard the Flurry clan talk about the crime or GLBT issues in Edmond or the state of Oklahoma. Nope, because they know they will get their asses creamed in the press, and right now, they are courting Edmond officials and the public by wooing them into concerts in their mini-me auditorium. You also never see them mention the gay people from their own Celtic Dance teams dancing across the stage and who represent them in public shows. Useful gays are always good gays. No one gives a flying rat's ass if the firefighter coming to your rescue when your house is on fire is a lesbian. It irritates many of these COG leaders that so many gay and lesbian firefighters are more butch than they are.
Armstrongism has always been filled with hypocritical leaders who run off at the mouth with stupid accusations, believing they are right in the eyes of their little angry gods. Some things never change.
24 comments:
...."vicious legal attack"....... so it was legal.
Isaiah 29:6 is directed at Jerusalem, not LA.
So "California really attacked the living God!" by seizing the church property and assets contrary to the U.S. constitution. But running an organization as a cult is also contrary to the spirit of the bill of rights. Where's respect for members rights? So again it's bully morality. If anyone doesn't super respect the rights of the ministers, they are attacking the living God, and will be vindictively punished. But even when ministerial abuse has been publicly exposed, the line is "they have bitterly repented and their sins have been thrown into the sea, never to be mentioned again." A very self serving double standard, no?
Those preachers who seek to capitalize on natural disasters need to give us the theodicy whereby they are able to link the natural disasters to God. The preachers make themselves representatives of God in these circumstances. Yet, we have no real reason to believe that they are in any way credentialed to function this way. Are they anything more than people who seek to strengthen the influence of their pulpit before a credulous audience by associating themselves with the power of a natural disasters? If they are they need to construct that argument. Otherwise, we might conclude that they are mischaracterizing God.
The LA fires were a tragic natural disaster. I would not conjecture beyond that. Anything beyond that would require a rational and comprehensive theodicy and that does not seem to be present here. I have a single point of data. Jesus said we should daily pray, “Let your kingdom come; let your will come to pass, as in heaven so also upon earth.” This does not sound like the will of God is being done on the earth at this time to me. And I believe that ascribing a natural disaster to the will of God without rationale could be a presumptuous act of misattribution.
Scout
"Brotherly love"???? This group does NOT deserve to bear the moniker which they've attributed to themselves. The "Philadelphia" COG - I call B.S.
They (PCG) had a hilarious "open letter to the churches" article up the other day. It was basically crowing about all the things WCG did with their funds. In other words, it was an open appeal for more people to send PCG their money.
we have no real reason to believe that they are in any way credentialed to function
The same goes for you buster.
Anonymous 12:06 wrote, "The same goes for you buster."
I am not claiming to speak for God. That is a large and serious claim and should be accompanied by large and serious credentialling. I am just asking some questions of those people who make that claim about themselves. Everyone in your church should be asking the same question lest you all make shipweck following a poor navigator.
For someone to say this happened because God was angry and made it happen without any support for that claim, that person is no better than a shaman who follows an animistic religion in a primitive tribe.
My guess is that you have some support. I would like to know what it is. Do you know what it is?
Scout
If one has read the Kessler letter, if the state of California had looked at HWA's expenditures and paying himself exorbitant gifts plus his "mad money" he blew on himself during his foreign travels it is very likely he would have been charged for misuse of funds. I know of a church member who was an attorney who flew out to Pasadena after the initials charges and receivership was begun and a few months later he resigned the church after seeing what was actually taking place.
Any projections coming from the ACOGs regarding these natural disasters are simply an exercise in spiritual masturbation!
The true history of the untrue church is that an honest attempt was made to reign in HWA and to hold him and his cronies accountable for their many financial abuses in a court of law. But, alas, he refused to be held accountable, made an end run around the judicial system and got political allies to change the law, immunizing himself and all other similar televangelists who also cloak their abuses with their churches. Rader then wrote a book sanctimoniously wrapping them in the Constitution, and pretending to be one of Christianity's heroes on TV.
You could make a very good case for God having broken up the WCG as a punishment for this. He seems to have centered His punishment on dissipating the wealth and resources accumulated by HWA. God's punishments are always appropriate to the areas in which the sin or rebellion lie, after all! So, God accomplished what HWA and his attorneys attempted to thwart, didn't He???
As for the fires, the LA fire chief has duly noted that there is no longer a fire season. Climate change has made fire season a year round event, and there will continue to be more devastating problems directly linked to climate change for as long as the deniers hold the upper hand.
How anyone would believe that a court approved litigation was an attack, is beyond comprehension, if there was nothing to hide, the lawsuit would have provided a platform to prove innocence - why fight, use deception and put families in harms way! The WCGs act went against 1 Tim 1:1-4 and this continues to be perpetuated by the splinters in various degrees.
The ACOGs have also taught that God "dissipating the wealth and resources accumulated by HWA" is a type of what is about to befall the Anglo-Saxons. As John keeps saying, time will tell.
Even human parents know it is CRUEL to severely punish a child long after a "bad thing" was done and the child now has NO IDEA why they are being punished. Since God is smarter and wiser than human parents, PCG (and other COGs) need to examine the logic of their "god" and better pray fervently with tears that their god doesn't use that type of disciplinary style on them. You know, like staying home on the sabbath one time because you were just to tired...and ten years you get pancreatic cancer. Lesson learned too late.
They think that same delay thing happened with the warning, Marc! Some of the groups actually believe that HWA accomplished the great commission in that he warned all the English-speaking Baby Boomers, the generation that was alive when Israel was reborn as a nation (tender branch or sprout from the Olivet prophecy).
HWA's "hook", or message would have made perfect sense if the Germans had arrived in '72, and Jesus had returned in 1975, but for us Boomers, the only important things that were ongoing at that time were the war in Vietnam, and the awesome classic rock we were hearing on FM radio! Now, 50 years later, they think we've been warned? More people remember watching "Flipper" than the World Tomorrow!
BB
But it went way beyond litigation. The court appointed receiver, who also very generously paid himself out of church funds, literally took over the church. Morally this was a breach of separation of church and state. Which is why many other churches sided with WWCG on this matter at the time. The legal system isn't some perfect god that's beyond questioning or apposing. The ongoing political lawfare against Trump is an example of this.
Is this for real ? Or the Flurries using a well worn, threadbare 'mind tactic' on members for their own interests?
It was Garner Ted who told the State of California officials about the money discrepancies. He was very vocal about it during his sermons in the 80's. So technically the 'State' was only acting on information from within the inner WCG circle.
"You know, like staying home on the sabbath one time because you were just to tired...and ten years you get pancreatic cancer. Lesson learned too late."
Re: Cebrian.....Yes this is certainly apropriate punishment for that reason.
I only stayed home when I was really sick........and my cure was eating lots and lots and lots of garlic.
nck
Ha, nck, my boss always jokes that the reason I never call off sick is because I eat so much spicy food. My bloodstream is a hostile environment.
What is being discussed in this thread are issues of theodicy. I find theodicy to be one of the largest conundrums in Christian belief. It seems to be not so much a doctrine as a speculation. Paul in Galatians characterizes the world we live in as “this present evil world” from which Jesus delivered us. I believe foremost that this is a spiritual deliverance and betimes may also be a physical deliverance. Eusebius claimed that Paul was executed by beheading. My guess is that there were many Christians who lost their homes in the LA fires. The nature of Theodicy is my weakest understanding. My reading indicates that this weakness is prevalent among Christian theologians.
The sources of evil are many and often times their interaction is complex and unknowable. God may punish. The Dark Side may strike. Humans may be human. And Nature itself may do what Nature does. So, when tragedy happens, I am not surprised that the Ekklesia cannot tease out the cause, let alone Armstrongism. There are those who own some kind of pulpit who stand up and claim that they know the answer and presumptuously pronounce judgment. I would consider such stentorian declarations to be categorically suspect.
While our ability to analyze and judge events like the LA fires is very limited and mostly confined to physical civil engineering issues, it is clear what our reaction as Christians should be. For those who walk in The Way, it is to love one’s neighbor and not to compose and sing a politically self-serving jeremiad about moral culpability. There are those who claim judgment and accusation are a form of love but that is just another artful dodge.
Scout
Eat steamed (30 minutes) raw organic veges; make own ice cream of cocoa powder, or vanilla from the bean, cream, honey ONLY; rolled oats; raw organic fruit. No packages except XBars. Occasional wild salmon.
Luke 13:1 About this time Jesus was informed that Pilate had murdered some people from Galilee as they were offering sacrifices at the Temple. 2 “Do you think those Galileans were worse sinners than all the other people from Galilee?” Jesus asked. “Is that why they suffered? 3 Not at all! And you will perish, too, unless you repent of your sins and turn to God. 4 And what about the eighteen people who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them? Were they the worst sinners in Jerusalem? 5 No, and I tell you again that unless you repent, you will perish, too.” - NLT
Matthew 5:43 “You have heard the law that says, ‘Love your neighbor’ and hate your enemy. 44 But I say, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! 45 In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and the unjust alike. - NLT
Ecclesiastes 9:11 I have observed something else under the sun. The fastest runner doesn’t always win the race, and the strongest warrior doesn’t always win the battle. The wise sometimes go hungry, and the skillful are not necessarily wealthy. And those who are educated don’t always lead successful lives. It is all decided by chance, by being in the right place at the right time. - NLT
The majority of the members and I'd say the balanced, honest men in ministry of COG groups (some honest men in ministry have existed) have for decades regarded disasters as 'Time and chance'. That people good and bad, can by time and chance, be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Disasters can happen to good and bad and anyone in-between.
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