I'll just leave this here for comment:
Malachi speaks of messengers to come who will prepare the way before the comings of Jesus Christ (Malachi 3:1-5). Verses 2-5 and 4:5 where God promised to send “Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord” clearly refer to Jesus’ second coming.
In Matthew 17:10-13, Jesus’ “disciples asked Him, saying, ‘Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?’ Jesus answered . . . ‘Elijah is coming first and will restore all things. But I say to you that Elijah has come already . . .’ Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them of John the Baptist.”
God’s Church has been an Elijah messenger before the second coming! As John the Baptist did, in all of our messages we must “make straight the way of the Lord” (John 1:23). We should always make the truth plain!
and this:
God will help us be His Malachis individually and as His Church and work. Let’s learn from what this minor prophet teaches, live it, teach and proclaim it!
39 comments:
Is this new "Make Straight the Way" campaign a formal repudiation of former UCG President Dennis Luker's controversial compassionate outreach toward ACOG homosexuals?
The prophecy indicates ONE person. Changing it to the church is nonsense.
Wow! Isn’t this a title that even Dave Pack has not yet taken to himself? He has taken so many, and he may have claimed this one too. I’m sure Marc can ‘enlighten’ us to that.
‘Gods church has been an Elijah messenger…’
Which begs the question, are there other Gods church as many claim, and what if the message they proclaim is different from yours, and why if you are Gods church is there so much division between you and those who make the same proclamation. A kingdom divided will not stand, and that is surely true with the Armstrong movement.
"........God promised to send “Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord” clearly refer to Jesus’ second coming."
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It does?? How about the first coming, and the "great and dreadful day" was the "great tribulation" of God's punishment for the murder of His Son where no flesh should be saved but was, Av 10, 70 AD to Nisan 15, 74 AD......1290 days + 45 days of the siege at Masada = 1335 days. (??) Dave Pack: take notice.
Google.....how long was the siege at Masada?
Jesus second coming (Heb 9:28) will be as in the days before the flood when the people "knew not" or maybe to put another way they thought they knew but didn't.
UCG ministers stopped considering Herbert Armstrong "the end-time Elijah" a long time ago.
That's partly why PCG ministers say UCG members "have work to do," as I heard one minister in Edmund say in the 2010s.
These groups don’t preach the gospel. They don’t even preach the message of John the Baptist who was the Elijah who prepared the way for the Lord. And who is the Lord?? Jesus Christ.
How many members are they down to now? Under 1000?
God forbid if anyone in UCG ever said they were Jesus's followers.
When the church imploded, the UCG attracted more than its share of unsuccessful Christians.
If we are all Malachi, I guess we are all That Prophet. And I guess we are all The Messiah.
Context? Context is everything !
Always got a kick out of the ol' "God's Church" routine. As if it were an exclusive, and none of the other churches were. What hubris!
Honestly? I'd rather enjoy a nice vanilla milkshake than to participate in this charade. It'd be much more honest and satisfying.
Exactly, then one of these splinter groups still thinks HWA was the Elijah to come.
They all gotta be prophets huh... what about the other positions.
Ephesians 4:11-12 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
Why not just be content about being His jewels?
Malachi 3:16-17 Then those who feared the Lord spoke to one another,
And the Lord listened and heard them; So a book of remembrance was written before Him For those who fear the Lord And who meditate on His name. “They shall be Mine,” says the Lord of hosts, “On the day that I make them My jewels.
And I will spare them...
They, them , those (plural)
Proclaiming themselves the "end-time Diotrephes" just doesn't have the same appeal... even if it is closer to the truth!
Always remember, and never forget, that the disUnited Church of Godlessness, an International Abomination is a hopeless mess of unrepentant, unconverted unbelievers behaving very badly while playing church.
This is in keeping with the times in which we live. We are watching the talking heads attempt to make the outrageous and unprecedented appear perfectly mainstream and normal.
I bet these Malachis would just love to wear their red baseball caps!
From UCG.org in February 2023: "UCG Angola has 70 congregations, 1,800 baptized members and an average Sabbath attendance of 4,500 brethren."
That's simply in Angola. Many more in other countries.
"God’s Church has been an Elijah messenger"
What about being an ambassador for Christ?
These ACOGs are baptized in the Old Testament/Covenant. And yea, they might still be wearing those red baseball caps, unless they are farmers. Hopefully they pay a fair wage for their workers (Malachi 3:5).
Members is a funny word to use. Attendees. Tithers. Sheep. Those are better.
This Malachi nonsense came from British-Israelism and Pentecostalism. Go to william-branham.org, and you'll see numerous articles and a book or two about the obsession with Malachi and his supposed end-time message. Herbert merely tapped into a belief that was quite prevailant among the B-I, COG 7TH Day, and Pentecostal people in the early 20th century to create his cult.
Yea, HWA basically borrowed B-I from a few men in the late 19th century early 20th century. The internet has allowed us to find these predecessors of the dogma, when it wasn’t as possible in the previous century. They already had their books published. Just wiki British Israelism.
And yea these Armstrongist want to be the Ezekiel watchmen, Malachi , Elijah’s all at the same time.
Shouldn't these Malachis be prophesying about the Pope's double pneumonia and Elon Musk wrecking the Federal Government? 🤪
BB
There's 180,000 Jehovah's Witnesses in Angola as well. Armstrongism and JWs are similar, so the 1,800 attendance isn't surprising.
Sorry, malachis, you don't understand Biblical tithing (but malachis love to quote Malachi about tithing).........10% of harvest only at the end of every third year of tree and land produce, not money income, was to be stored up and given to 2% of the population who were the Levites, and to the fatherless/widow/stranger, and, 10% every year was to be kept by the owner for celebrating the 3 annual feasts and sharing with others at the feasts. These tithing laws are now removed.
This view (latter day Malachis) pivots on a dubious hermeneutic that comes out of apocalyptic Millerism. It is called type-antitype. The idea is that there is an original instance of a prophetic event and then a later fulfillment that might be more intense. It is clear from scripture that John the Baptist was the fulfillment of the Elijah prophecy. Armstrongists then apply the type-antitype hermeneutic to this Biblical event and conclude that a later fulfillment of this same prophecy refers to HWA. For instance, the abuse of the type-antitype principle is the foundation for believing there will be two tribulations – one in 70 AD and one just prior to the Parousia.
The problem with this hermeneutic is that it permits interpreters, Armstrongist interpreters in this case, to subsume all kinds of events into the end-time un-exegeted. Type-antitype, as invoked by Armstrongists, is like a blanket, extra-Biblical justification for declaring anything to be repeated in the end-time. We understand directly from scripture that John the Baptist was the fulfillment of the Elijah prophecy. Armstrongists posit another later fulfillment without exegesis – based only on a hermeneutic which is itself without careful definition. Like the 19-year time cycle, it exists as a hermeneutic only through the force of HWA’s imperious personality. For this reason, it has been seldom questioned and has become a fount of unsupported interpretation.
So, there is no uncertainty about what I am stating, the open challenge to Armstrongism is to exegete from the Bible a second appearance of an end-time Elijah. This exegesis would necessarily contain a carefully constructed argument as to when and how they can apply type-antitype to Biblical events. The application cannot be random because that is to wholly forsake scripture. The man they thought was Elijah, is now deceased. Now they are finding more Elijahs in the woodwork. It’s time for them to bring it.
Scout
They may come to that. Right now, Rick Shabi's "Biblical Worldview" is analyzing Gaza.
Type-antitype...prophecy is dual = one of many of Herbie's "dark sentences" - Daniel 8:23 KJV???
An original and then a later fulfillment/s is based on the fact the human psychology is a constant. Which is why history repeats itself. This is even discernable in stock market prices. If one goes back enough in time, one finds similar patterns to the present.
An original and then a later fulfillment/s is based on the fact the human psychology is a constant. Which is why history repeats itself.
If this is the standard, then type-antitype isn't sufficient. It should be type, next type, next type, ad infinitum. Not just one repeat of an older occurrence. Which would blow the HWA prophetic model to smithereens.
Yep, it's cyclic: "Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -----"
Typology is a legitimate hermeneutic for Biblical interpretation used by scholars. Typically, a type is found in the OT and its corresponding and similar antitype is found in the NT. See Wikipedia topic “Typology (theology)”. Validity of usage should be evaluated on a case by case basis.
From my experience in Armstrongism, I don't know of any validation of typology that is used for doctrinal formation. But I never moved in those circles.
Scout
Typically, a type is found in the OT and its corresponding and similar antitype is found in the NT.
That sounds just like HWA! Another Armstrongist!
Schneider?
Typically, a type is found in the OT and its corresponding and similar antitype is found in the NT.
Yes, that's how they apply it, but that's a narrow and motivated application. If you REALLY are serious about type/antitype, add the Epic of Gilgamesh and various other ancient writings to your "study" of the OT and NT. If you look closely enough, you'll come to the conclusion that the Bible itself is rather pagan, filtered through the experience of one particular Middle Eastern culture.
917
Scout is definitely not an Armsstrongite but I bet he will get a kick out of the dig!
In reading the comments about type this and type that. I was thinking abut the abomination of desolation spoken of in Matthew 24 and in Daniel. This is one where the ACOG refer back to Antiochus Epiphanes. But the ACOGs hardly ever refer back to Vespasian & Titus. Also when referring to Paul's letter that he wrote in the early 50 AD:
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
I always wondered was Paul referring back to what would eventually be the 70AD warning message for his day? Because there would still need to be a physical "temple" for this to occur.
Tank
Anonymous 9:17
I wrote something confusing. First, I identified the type-antitype hermeneutic as a kind of bogus principle. At the time I wrote this, I knew that some Bible interpreters use type-antitype in their analyses but I did not want to get into it. A day later, I felt that my original statement could not stand by itself so I wrote the little follow-up statement stating that type-antitype was actually a legitimate tool.
So, now I have dug myself in deeper. Let me, then, clarify my position. I have encountered a number of cases where Armstrongists have used type-antitype in a free-wheeling way to justify dubious prophetic assertions. The Tribulation comes to mind. The idea of a Second Tribulation just before Christ returns, is based on weak arguments. The Second Tribulation idea is more of a creature of the type-antitype hermeneutic rather than a strong exegesis from scripture. But there may be other circumstances where Armstrongists have used type-antitype in a way that makes interpretative sense.
What this means is that type-antitype is not a hermeneutic that is categorically wrong. So, one must assess how type-antitype is used and the conclusions it leads to in order to determine its validity.
Scout
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