The Armstrong Churches of God Need Physical Reminders to Keep Them on Track
The United Church of God (UCG) featured an article on their website titled The Feast of Unleavened Bread: Replacing Sin With the Bread of Life. According to the UCG, "The Days of Unleavened Bread remind us that with God's help we must remove and avoid all sin—symbolized by leaven—and live genuinely by God's commandments in all areas of our life." The article continues: "Today removing leaven from our homes for seven days reminds us that we, too, through prayer and God's help and understanding, must recognize, expel and avoid sin. The Feast of Unleavened Bread is thus a time of personal reflection. We should meditate on our attitudes and conduct and ask God to help us recognize and overcome our shortcomings." They went on to justify this logic: "We learn by doing. We learn spiritual lessons by doing physical things. Performing the task of deleavening our homes and avoiding leavening for a week reminds us to vigilantly watch for sinful thoughts and actions so we can avoid them."
Unfortunately, the above excerpts from the article are NOT scriptural! Reading through those quotations again one passage of Scripture came immediately to mind. In the book of James, we read: "Understand this, my dear brothers and sisters: You must all be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to get angry. Human anger does not produce the righteousness God desires. So get rid of all the filth and evil in your lives, and humbly accept the word God has planted in your hearts, for it has the power to save your souls. But don’t just listen to God’s word. You must do what it says. Otherwise, you are only fooling yourselves. For if you listen to the word and don’t obey, it is like glancing at your face in a mirror. You see yourself, walk away, and forget what you look like. But if you look carefully into the perfect law that sets you free, and if you do what it says and don’t forget what you heard, then God will bless you for doing it. If you claim to be religious but don’t control your tongue, you are fooling yourself, and your religion is worthless. Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you." (James 1:19-27, NLT
)The Bible (Old and New Testaments) teaches us that Jesus Christ has removed our sins (think Atonement). In the book of Psalms, we read "He has removed our sins as far from us as the east is from the west." (Psalm 103:12, NLT
) In the Gospel of John, we read: "The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, 'Look! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!'" (John 1:29, NLT) In the tenth chapter of the Epistle to the Hebrews, we read that it was impossible "for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins." (Verse 4) Only Jesus Christ can truly take away our sins! Continuing the thought, we read: "First, Christ said, 'You did not want animal sacrifices or sin offerings or burnt offerings or other offerings for sin, nor were you pleased with them' (though they are required by the law of Moses). Then he said, 'Look, I have come to do your will.' He cancels the first covenant in order to put the second into effect. For God’s will was for us to be made holy by the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ, once for all time. Under the old covenant, the priest stands and ministers before the altar day after day, offering the same sacrifices again and again, which can never take away sins. But our High Priest offered himself to God as a single sacrifice for sins, good for all time. Then he sat down in the place of honor at God’s right hand." (Hebrews 10:8-12, NLT)In that same passage, we are given yet another witness to the same truth (that only Christ can remove our leaven). We read: "And the Holy Spirit also testifies that this is so. For he says, 'This is the new covenant I will make with my people on that day,' says the Lord: 'I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.' Then he says, 'I will never again remember their sins and lawless deeds.' And when sins have been forgiven, there is no need to offer any more sacrifices." (Hebrews 10:15-18, NLT
) In other words, we DON'T need to be reminded of sins every year! Christ has removed our leavening - PERIOD!God does NOT expect Christians to scrupulously remove all of the leaven from their homes - Christ has removed the leavening from our tabernacles, and HE did it one time for ALL sins (past, present, and future)! As Paul wrote to the saints at Philippi, "I focus on this one thing: Forgetting the past and looking forward to what lies ahead, I press on to reach the end of the race and receive the heavenly prize for which God, through Christ Jesus, is calling us." (Philippians 3:13-14, NLT
)A TRUE Christian, one who has accepted the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, will have internalized the Two Commandments which motivate every iteration of God's Law: To LOVE God and each other! A real Christian does NOT need to return to the Torah and scrupulously try to follow all of the dos and don'ts listed there! The real Christian needs to be living the Law of LOVE and continuously repenting when he/she becomes aware of sin. A real Christian knows that he/she is a sinner saved by what Christ has done for him/her. A real Christian knows that Jesus Christ FULFILLED everything in the Law, Prophets, and Writings of the Hebrew Scriptures.
Nevertheless, there is a glimmer of the Christian reality in the UCG article we have been discussing. They flirt with the reality of the symbolism of the true unleavened bread, Jesus Christ. They quote Christ's own commentary on this statement in the sixth chapter of the Gospel of John:
"Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you . . . Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world . . .I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst . . . I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world . . . This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever" (John 6:27-58
).In other words, Jesus Christ is the TRUE unleavened bread - without sin - meant for us to partake of both in our daily lives and in the Eucharist. If we have truly accepted Jesus as our Savior, we will be celebrating the Feast of Unleavened Bread for the rest of our lives! In short, Christians do NOT need to observe the festival outlined in Torah for the children of Israel. Christ is the epitome of what that festival portrayed. This should be burned into our consciousness. We should NOT need the same physical reminders given to a people who did NOT have access to the Holy Spirit or the Father!
Posted by Miller Jones/Lonnie C Hendrix
66 comments:
Colossians 3 clarifies our situation very well (together with many similar scriptures) showing effort is also involved.
Notice it says AFTER we have put on Christ and we have 'died' - WE must put to death our carnal drives:-
3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your[a] life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.[b] 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator
A main purpose of physical observances is if you manage to get believers attributing value to certain acts - such as eating the unleavened bread, and observing the day, and not eating the certain foods, it is an easy task to demand tithes of the people who are seeking to please God. It eventually becomes a most disturbing, and destructive thing.
Oh but until Jesus Christ returns we are to eat the unleavened bread and drink the cup - 1Cor 11:20-30
. But not a meal - verse 20. Not 4 cups, as in a Jewish Seder. The Passover observance was changed by Christ's instruction through Paul from a meal with bitter herbs to a "ceremony" of eating bread once, drink the cup once. But Paul does not say only this must be done. Foot washing and scripture reading and prayer are of course, I believe, OK.
Miller Jones:
This article demands much of the reader. At first reading, the UCG author and James seem to be on the same page. Both are advocating personal self-help to achieve salvation. But that is a misreading in regard to James. James states:
“So get rid of all the filth and evil in your lives, and humbly accept the word God has planted in your hearts, for it has the power to save your souls.”
The meaning here pivots on the delicate phrase “the word God has planted”. Armstrongists would read this verse and see the following:
“So get rid of all the filth and evil in your lives, and humbly accept the THE LAW OF MOSES God has planted in your hearts, for it has the power to save your souls.”
I would be happy to provide supporting material for what I have just asserted. In reading the Book of James it is easy to overlook the fact that Jesus is the Word that God has planted in our hearts. James does not dwell long on his brother Jesus but shortly after the passage you cite from James, James states, “My brothers, hold to the faith of our Lord of glory, Jesus Christ.” This is the backdrop to everything James writes. James is not incompatible with Paul and would not advocate do-it-yourself salvation.
The UCG author writes something that I think captures the implicit tenor of the entire article:
“To effectively remove sin and to prevent it from regaining a foothold in our lives, we must do something—we must replace our human weaknesses and sinful tendencies with something far better.”
We must do it ourselves. But the reader of the UCG article must consider that Armstrongism has no doctrine of the Vicarious Humanity of Christ. Jesus has done the work for us in perfection, according to this doctrine, and we must echo what he has done in our personal lives though we be imperfect. Our saving righteousness is imputed, not somehow accumulated over a lifetime of imperfect personal performance. The quote above comports with the Armstrongist view that the believer does not have salvation presently but must work to achieve salvation through diligent self-application. Then in the believer’s personal eschaton, the believer may be adjudged worthy of salvation.
Your topic is very appropriate for this time. All of the Armstrongist hubbub of physical observances and social agendas at this time of year is unlikely to remind people of their sins. Instead, the swirl of events diverts attention from Jesus (I don’t like non-liturgical Easter events, either) who is God’s healing for sin.
Scout
But physical reminders of Christmas trees are great to keep on track for Christmas.
Here is a hilarious incident involving perceptions amongst dissimilar religions.
Back in the 1980s, I worked at a business owned by a devout Catholic family. One day, I received a phone call from a Jewish friend who worked for a friendly competitor. My boss's son and I shared office space, so he was aware of the call. He asked what I thought of Art (the Jewish friend). I told him Art was a very effective salesman, seemed like an alright guy. My boss's son then shared that he did not trust Jewish people. When I asked why, he replied that they only have to go to confession once a year!
BB
Are the authors also against "WWJD" bracelets? (Melvin Rhodes was, when he was a top leader of UCG.) And small crosses around necks or as lapel pins?
Scout,
I'm well aware of the ways that Armstrongists twist the book of James to support their view of Torah observance (that's why I quoted his epistle). As you suggested in your comment, I think that James very clearly demonstrates the Christian view (that Christians are NOT obligated to observe the tenets of the Old Covenant).
A person who has truly repented of his/her sins and accepted Christ's sacrifice on his/her behalf and received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit will be different that he/she was prior to those events. Love for God and his/her neighbor will now be a part of his/her nature - It is what he/she will employ to differentiate between wickedness and righteousness. Having been made a party to the NEW Covenant, he/she will not continue in, or return to, the filth of his/her past life.
Faith in Christ means that you truly believe that what he has done for you was sufficient to redeem you from ALL of your sins and grant to you the eternal life which he has promised. This kind of faith causes the Christian to walk forward in newness of life and be confident that he/she has been reconciled to Almighty God. Such a person will live a moral life - NOT because they have been ordered to do so or because they expect a reward, but because they WANT TO please God and demonstrate their gratitude for what has been done for them!
Jesus is THE WORD, THE BREAD, THE TRUTH, THE WAY, THE DOOR, THE SAVIOR. ALL of that stuff that was a part of the Old Covenant pointed to Jesus. HE is the reality which they only symbolized! In other words, if you have to go through those Old Testament rituals to feel clean and whole before God, Jesus isn't much use to you!
Eating unleavened bread doesn't actually save us. Keeping the 10 commandments ARE in fact proof Christ is living in us. e.g. First 4 show love towards God which clearly we must have to be in Kingdom of God. The other 6 - honour parents, don't murder, don't steal, don't commit adultery, don't lie and don't covet are all just common sense that demonstrate in a codified form the BASICS of our love (outgoing concern) for others which we must have. Love towards God and then love towards neighbour (Psalm 119.) His commandments are not grievious just 'common sense'.As a popular TV ad says in the UK 'Simples!'
I understand the intent of this post and agree with the "spirit" of it, BUT, does having the spirit, and fully trusting Jesus Christ for our complete redemption totally relieve us of the need for "physical reminders"?
, Gal.4:19
). The function of ALL SCRIPTURE is to inspire, reprove, correct, and instruct, "that the man of God may be perfect" (2Tim. 3:16-17
). This is described in 2 Corinthians 4:16
: "for which cause we faint not, but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day". This ongoing renewal is accomplished by the continued feeding upon the word of God, the Bread of life, and the days of unleavened bread properly understood are a fitting " reminder " of this fact!
Conversion is described in Scripture as both instantaneous and a growth process, not complete " till we all come to the unity of the faith" and "Christ be formed in us" (Eph.4:13
I'm assuming the Corinthians were "real Christians", yet they had their problems and were constantly undergoing correction. This correction came in the form of instruction out of the law of Moses (ch.9). They were instructed to celebrate the Eucharist (repetitive, ch.11), the festival (repetitive, ch.5), and warned NOT to follow the corrupt example of the Israelites of old (ch.10). This shows that the NT contains many do's/ don'ts which are applicable to the Christian, and needed to be pointed out.
It is clear to me that repetition and physical reminders (not of the Armstrong kind, but the spiritual kind) do have a place in the Christian life. The NT usage of holyday symbolism and terminology clearly shows it still has value, and " is profitable for instruction in righteousness "! It's there, why not use it?
Agree.
To: BPS - Your comments on my 11.43 AM comment. Thanks for your input. I agree with you especially third paragraph 3.
And aren't the Passover bread and wine (during the service) physical reminders?
I get the feeling that there are a lot of people in the ACOGs holding their breath as they wait for GCI to become reJEWvinated.
BB
The Bible warns about a time when the church would be invaded by the Synagogue of Satan, who would introduce the law of Moses to effectively deny the sacrifice of Christ. Yet Paul fought fervently to dismantle the law of Moses with the New Testament church,
issues a stark warning to the Philadelphia era against denying Christ. This warning carries significant weight when we consider HWA's actions in 1934. When he established the Radio Church of God, HWA introduced the law of Moses, a move that mirrored the actions of the Jews in the early church era. Like them, he sought to enforce the observance of the law of Moses, particularly the Feast Days, which were a mere shadow of the reality- the sacrifice of Christ. Now all the offshoots of WCG have followed in the heresy of HWA to make merchandise of the brethren through the law of Moses that was nailed to the cross.
2 Peter 2:1
"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even DENYING THE LORD that bought them..."
Jude 4
"For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and DENYING THE ONLY LORD GOD, AND OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST"
Revelation 3:8
God warned it would happen, and here we are!
Yes, God has "removed our sins as far from us as the east is from the west." (Psalm 103:12
), but He does not remove the natural consequences. I'm sure that God will forgive Val Kilmer for smoking like a chimney for a long time, but the resulting cancer killed him.
BP8,
I appreciate your comments on the post, and I agree with you and the other commentators who embrace the notion that the Hebrew Scriptures have tremendous value for Christians. We must not forget that the only Scriptures accessible to First Century Christians were the collection of writings we now refer to as the Old Testament.
Once again, my position (and the premise of the above post) is that the Torah, Prophets, and Writings of the Hebrew Scriptures were fulfilled by Jesus Christ. Hence, it is not unreasonable to suggest that Christians can learn about Jesus by reading and familiarizing themselves with that part of the Bible. Jesus made what was unclean clean. Christ was our Passover Lamb, and the one who "deleavened" us. He tabernacled in the flesh and is the firstfruits of God's great resurrection harvest. Jesus of Nazareth is also our atonement - the one who carried our sins away from God and us, and the one who will one day return to the blast of the angelic trumpets! He is the fulfillment of the Kingdom promised by the Prophets!
As for the Ten Commandments, like the other commandments given to the children of Israel, they can be summarized and fulfilled by loving God with our whole heart and soul and loving each other as ourselves. As the Christian will have internalized the Two Great Commandments, he/she will NOT be worshipping other gods, making idols, taking God's name in vain, failing to rest in Christ, dishonoring parents, murdering, stealing, committing adultery, lying or coveting. This, however, is NOT because he/she is obligated to obey the Ten Commandments which were the basis of God's covenant with the Israelites. Finally, Jesus and his apostles were Israelites. Hence, it is not inconsistent with this post or my view that we would find them observing the tenets of Torah. Even so, it does NOT follow that we (Gentile Christians) should be doing the same thing - Christ fulfilled the terms of that covenant.
Now, the Eucharist was commanded by Christ to keep what he had done for us in the forefront of our minds. In other words, HE designated what he wanted us to remember! What is it that Armstrongists say about adding or subtracting?
Lonnie
BP8 6:53 wrote, “…BUT, does having the spirit, and fully trusting Jesus Christ for our complete redemption totally relieve us of the need for "physical reminders"?”
This use of the term “physical reminder” makes what is really sinister seem innocuous. Armstrongists believe that the Law of Moses is written on their hearts. And if you transgress that Law willfully you will be incinerated in Gehenna fire. This means that unleavening your house is an issue of your personal salvation and if you do not do the unleavening per scripture and the Church Administration Office, you will miserably perish. It is not just a reminder. It is one of the works you must perform in order to earn salvation (or “qualify” as they usually say).
So, there is a built-in reason for Armstrongists to elevate the physical to a place of great importance. It is salvation itself. But, alas, there is no consistency in application. Someone who does not suitably observe the Holy Days can get disfellowshipped but someone who does not wear tassels on their garments or wears socks of mixed fabrics is given a waiver. We might call this the Principle of Selectivity. Where this principle came from, who exegeted it and how it is justified is a mystery to me.
So, characterizing the physical aspects of Armstrongist liturgy as a kind of learning experience neglects the diminishes the true intent. It is do or die.
Scout
''Keeping the 10 commandments ARE in fact proof Christ is living in us''.4:11
Unfortunately ''keeping'' the ten commandments is not possible at the level Jesus required and we are all condemned as sinners.
Yes, you may not murder, but the heart can/does often hold hatred, or anger. Or, we can never be sure that we honour our parents at the requisite level .
The ''keeping'' of the 4 requires sabbath observance, hence back to the fake apostles claim that the one true church is found only in his invented system yet we know this to be a falsity.
Best we don't wander around claiming we are '' keepers'' of all these laws.
There is no harm` at all in my view in physical reminders if that's what one needs or benefits from. The Problem is men construct alleged one true church systems using such reminders and laws, thus an edifice is built up having an appearance but all the while being untrue.
I suppose if one 'observed' the physical reminder in small groups this evil outcome may be avoided?
Yes most ironic 10.19 - making Jesus's words resound in our ears - by their fruits you will know.
Much that is written here is hype and only words typed, it is not the reality of lives lived. Empty words. The typed words do not represent what really goes on at all.
Those who take care when writing about the Eucharist are the very ones who trampled all over it. Big laugh, big joke.
Much is written about love, yet it is a 'love for those, who hate who we hate' it is not Christ's love for all. Where is the love when they are swift to condemn others as non Christians ? " You should have read this" they proclaim, whilst never offering it in the first place. Corruption of love.
What is the point of these endless debates too and fro ? When the cold reality is complete despisement and thinly disguised hatred of those who want to observe God's Holy days. It's like jews in Nazi Germany, standing on a train station platform debating with Nazis, whilst the train bound for concentration camps is chugging along the tracks and all property, funds and their way of life was being taken from them and destroyed.
Perhaps this aspect of Armstrong’s doctrine as you well describe is the most unfortunate. . That he says believers have to ‘do’ the law else we can’t be saved. Christ's actions, for the benefit of all humanity in securing salvation and reconciliation with God becomes neglected.
Bill
Bit hard to have love for fake leaders and teachers who cause great harm as ravenous wolves - whom Christ himself used very harsh words against - so I have no idea what you’re on about or trying to achieve.
Scout 1:10:46 writes concerning my comment,
"Characterizing the physical aspects of Armstrongist liturgy as a kind of learning experience neglects and diminishes the true intent".
That's a good point and I fully agree, but I hope you are not suggesting that is what I am suggesting. The true intent is what counts, which is where I see the value in the holydays.
If Orthodox Christianity can observe times and liturgy of their own making, days not designated by Christ as to what HE wanted us to remember (Christmas and Easter), then it is certainly appropriate to honor the appointments of God, that point to Jesus Christ and clearly depict the past and future interventions of God in history. The NT is full of holyday symbolism which is there for our instruction and understanding.
Anonymous 11:05 wrote, “When the cold reality is complete despisement and thinly disguised hatred of those who want to observe God's Holy days.”
Your lament could not be more off-base. It is not “despisement” and “hatred” but a concern for the integrity of Christian belief. Armstrongism is not about just observing God’s holy days. Armstrongism is about making the keeping of these holy days a requirement for salvation. That is a horse of a different color. Nobody should judge your keeping of the holy days. Knock yourself out. What you cannot do is require their keeping for salvation and then judge other people by your concocted and erroneous standard as Armstrongism does.
Do you think that Paul in his rebuke of the Circumcision Party over requiring the Law of Moses for salvation was acting out of despisement and hatred?
Do you think the Circumcision Party was just a loving group of good ol' boys who wanted to keep the holy days? No, they were about cancelling the message that Jesus brought.
Scout
I once watched episodes of a PBS special on the history of Christianity, narrated by Bill Moyer. Of special interest to me were the first centuries following the time that Jesus spent on earth. Moyer described this as a time when Christianity expanded from being a primarily Jewish phenomenon, was shown as being functional in a wide variety of cultural settings, finally to emerge as the world-class religion as which it is known today.
I have to say, that synopsis helped me in reaching an entirely different understanding of Paul's work, and the words he recorded in his epistles. For the first time, I realized that his words were never intended to be filtered through the Old Covenant, and therefore did not need to be spun or twisted. They fit perfectly, actually appearing to be quite intuitive exactly as he wrote them.
As Armstrongites, we did not study the Deuterocanonicals. However, as members of the Armstrong church, we often entertained the possibility of sharing similar fates to the Jewish stalwarts during the time of Hellenization, as recorded in the Maccabees. This took place during the time between the Old, and New Testaments. Part of that record is the resistance of Jewish stalwarts, even to the point of death, as opposed to relinquishing their faith. Early Christian martyrs, both sabbath-keeping, and Sunday-keeping, later faced the same fate at the hands of the Roman Emperors. The Romans made no distinction between them based on the day which they kept. They considered both to be atheists, troublemakers, simply because they did not believe in the Roman gods and goddesses.
BB
Welcome to the 5th day of the feast of unleavened bread!
To repeatedly accuse all Sabbath Christians in 2025, who observe God's Holy days as claiming they say you have to observe them for salvation is outrageous and a vile lie.
Why don't you knock yourself out and leave the Church people in peace.
Scout @ Wednesday, April 16, 2025 at 6:55:36 AM PDT
and Galatians 2:16
Christ fulfilled the Law for us, and he ALONE makes it possible for us to stand before Almighty God whole and clean!
Your comment succinctly explains the motivation behind these criticisms of Armstrongist theology. Like you, I don't have any problem with someone trying to physically observe the Sabbath or the festivals of Torah - more power to them! Nevertheless, we simply cannot allow their assertion that such observances make them the only "true" Christians to go unchallenged. To be clear, NO ONE will be justified by observing ANY of the tenets of Torah!
(Ten Commandments, festivals, clean and unclean, etc.) - Romans 3:20
9:54 To claim that the COG does not require Sabbath and Holy Day keeping as a requirement for salvation is a lie. Imagine a new person being interviewed by a minister about joining the church and sitting there telling the ministers that since salvation does not require a sabbath or holy day observance you are going to continue to work while joining the church. Or, if you are already a member and you tell your minister you are going to start working on Saturdays and not deleavening your home or attending the Feast since it is not required, is not going to sit well with the minister. You will be disfellowshipped immediately. This means your salvation is now at stake for disobeying "god". Sabbath and Holy Day keeping, Dietary "laws", tihing are all salvational issues when you get down to the nitty-gritty of church expectations.
9.54 ''To repeatedly accuse all Sabbath Christians in 2025..''
the comment is directed to Armstrong's theology. His teachings of his one true church, claimed to be revived after 1900 years, is that the holy days and sabbath keeping are the identifying signs.
And he attacked all others as being of Satan. These days are closely associated with his teaching that doing the law was required else one can't be saved.
it is not an outrageous as you expressed it.
"Christ fulfilled the Law for us"
*********
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Excellent comment, BB. So many years ago I started reading the NT, especially Paul's writings, for just what they say. That is why Galatians has been my favorite book, if one wants to look at that. So many years we were warned to be careful about Galatians because it was sooo difficult to understand, (in the light of church doctrine, I suppose). For me personally, that particular book opened my mind to so much ..... just reading it for what it actually says!
Anonymous 5:54 wrote, "To repeatedly accuse all Sabbath Christians in 2025, who observe God's Holy days as claiming they say you have to observe them for salvation is outrageous and a vile lie."
I have really never written about any Sabbatarians concerning this topic but Armstrongists. And Armstrongists do believe that Sabbath observation is a requirement for salvation. I actually do not know what all Sabbatarians believe about how the Sabbath is related to personal salvation.
Scout
Many if not most baby animals cannot survive if they are separated from their parents. It's the same with humans. People often cannot even physically survive without God's protection, as many of king David's prayers bring out. Likewise people cannot spiritually survive and not eventually become demons if they are not close to God. Which is the purpose of the Sabbath and the holy days. These days keep people pointed in the right moral direction, helps motivate its participants, and keeps people close to God. Without keeping these days, Christians will long term fail, which is why no holy day keeping equals no salvation.
You are saying keeping hily days and sabbath is required to ensure salvation.
Many people regard the sabbath rest in Christ as a great comfort without attending a church on sabbath
If in your case you must keep the day to find closeness to God such is fine.
Just don’t be looking askance at those who may not.
When the Kingdom of God is established on Earth, what festivals will be observed? Christmas, Easter? The Days of Unleavened Bread, the Feast of Tabernacles? None at all? While we await that happy day when the Kingdom is finally established, the observance or non-observance of certain days is a matter of conscience, and one's conscience should be informed by God's spirit. Through prayer, Bible study, and meditation, allow God to guide you in what to do about such matters. Issues such as holy days vs holidays can be argued until the cows come home, but in the final analysis spiritual issues are personal and between the individual and God. I think that DUB, FOT, and the other holy days will be observed in the Kingdom. Therefore, keeping Christmas and Easter puts one on the wrong side of history --- FUTURE history. "Future history" is of course an oxymoron, but the point is that worldwide observance of the holy days is what's coming eventually. However, if you don't believe that, and if after careful consideration involving prayer, Bible study, and meditation you feel Christmas and Easter are the way to go --- or if you feel such holidays are okay in this ecclesiastical dispensation between Jesus' first coming and his second coming --- then have at it and keep them with gusto. You believe what you conscientiously believe and I will believe what I conscientiously believe. We will eventually find out who was on the right track.
That depends on which COG in which time a person originated in and to whom was influencing who.
Believe it or not, there has been good and proper teachers of scripture in various parts of various COG groups, scattered about.
Men who could leave the dominating writers on this blog for dust.
I didn't know at the time how blessed I was. I took it for granted.
Long gone are the days when you'd hear about how the Israelite slaves got on during each day of UB and it being highlighted to Jesus Christ.
Oh yes it is. Herbert Armstrong has been dead for decades upon decades. You accuse people alive in 2025 so bring the evidence.
Show me the evidence where every single Sabbath Christian in 2025 has declared that you have to observe God's Holy days FOR salvation ? Every. Single. Sabbath Christian.in. 2025.
Well said thank you.
I have no idea what you're writing about either.
11:05. What the hell are you talking about?
It is not possible to answer for every single sabbath Christian as there are literally hundreds of different groups keeping sabbath.
If the offshoot of worldwide - and there are scores here - and the one you are in now reaches days and law keeping are not required for salvation that is a good thing.
Concerning Armstrong, , it is known he did have such teaching and all those who. Followed after his churches demise hold up Armstrong as an apostle and messenger of God.
Thus it remains valid to note his erroneous teachings. Cheers
We are not sure what festivals will be required at such time in the future.
. There is mention it seems of Jerusalem and a temple having a feast of tabernacles , but no indication it is repeated all around the world. Ir that every world citizen must go to Jerusalem such would be an impossibility.
All I know now is the anti Christmas and anti Easter dogma of the fake apostle and his kind are of no merit and we may ignore such meaningless utterances.
I think the conversation was all to do with the view that physical reminders be needed for salvation. Not against reminders such as you refer to per se.
Mike
I've been a stay-at-home, independent Christian for decades. HWA's teaching that the Sabbath and holy days are commanded convocations isn't quite right. Members can stay at home and fellowship with God the Father and Christ to fulfil this requirement. Years ago I pondered on returning to services, but the holy spirit told me to stay put. It's a matter of what benefits a given person.
Anonymous 11:00 wrote, "Show me the evidence where every single Sabbath Christian in 2025 has declared that you have to observe God's Holy days FOR salvation ?"
No. First, you show us where someone said that. You are boxing with a strawman of your own making.'
Scout
The article basically comes down to sound bites and cliches wrapped up in whatever.
To be isolated in worship is not healthy in the long run.
This blog and other interconnected blogs have had various articles and comments over the years, with various fake names calling Sabbath Christians Satanists and how they don't know Jesus Christ and various such insults.
It will take me awhile, as this is a very fast moving blog but I will find the evidence.
Bully.
Yes, because the law and the prophets declared the Lord Jesus is coming. So we do establish the validity of the “Torah” by our faith in the promises of God being fulfilled in Christ Jesus.
Let's be clear, Herbert Armstrong is the original and real bully in this scenario, NOT those of us who contribute to this blog! In his infamous "Pagan Holidays or God's Holy Days - Which?" Herbie wrote: "Christmas, New Year's, Easter, and a host of others are the holidays that have come directly from paganism, but these seven annual holy days are the holy days of God! Let us forsake the pagan holidays of this world and observe the true holy days of God." The message was very clear - the majority of Christians are observing "pagan" holidays, and the Worldwide Church of God was observing "God's" Holy Days! This, along with the Sabbath and a few other points of doctrine identified his church as the "true" Christians, and everyone else as "so-called" Christians.
Herbie's reasoning has been perpetuated in the groups which rose up out of the wreckage of the old Worldwide Church. In their "Fundamental Beliefs," the United Church of God states: "We believe that breaking any one point of the law brings upon a person the penalty of sin. We believe that this fundamental spiritual law reveals the only way to true life and the only possible way of happiness, peace and joy." NO! The only way to true life and happiness is through Jesus Christ! In this same document, UCG declares: "We believe in the commanded observance of the seven annual Biblical Festivals (Holy Days) given to ancient Israel by God and kept by Jesus Christ, the apostles and the New Testament Church. These Biblical Festival reveal God's plan of salvation." NO! Christians are NOT obligated to keep the festivals given to ancient Israel! They were kept by Jesus Christ, because he came to this earth to fulfill them. Likewise, his apostles (including Paul) observed them, because they were Jews/Israelites. Finally, they reveal God's plan of salvation only in the sense that they all point to Jesus, the Messiah!
As for the jibe about "sound bites and cliches wrapped up in whatever," The original article begins with actual quotations from an active UCG article. It contains seven references to Scripture and underscores error and truth contained in the article in question. There are nine fully developed paragraphs employing complete sentences which make up the body of the post. Hence, the above negative comment is shown to be the very thing that is charged against this post, a sound bite and a cliche!
Good luck it will be a huge job proving to commenters in this blog that they believe sabbath believers in Jesus are satanists.
Enlighten us then so we don’t remain deceived
The jibe shows the person, desirous of having a last say, as if doing so refutes all that has gone on before, remains unable to set out clearly just why the reasonings of the original article don’t deserve a proper acknowledgement.
It is not to bully to express frustration with a set of words that fail to respect a reader by carefully setting out the argument.
Lemme git down fer a minnit, 11:50, sos you kin unnerstand. I ain't never seed no-one here call a sabbath keeper a Satanist! I call bull-pucky on y'all for that! Why that'd be just about as perverse as callin' all them sweet Church-a-God ministers' wives Oholah or Oholibah! Ain't you got no social sensitivity?
You are a bully in real life and your inner cronies. I've never experienced bullying like the bullying you thought you could get away with imposing on others.
Anonymous @ Thursday, April 17, 2025 at 9:55:25 PM PDT,
You obviously don't know me.
2025 at 9:55:25 PM PDT You are a bully in real life and your inner cronies. I've never experienced bullying like the bullying you thought you could get away with imposing on others.
There are various persons commenting under anonymous I suspect. So you ought bear that in mind.
If it is the case you feel people expressing an opposing view, sometimes emphatically, amounts to bullying and this disturbs you, there are options of course.
By the way the writings of the erstwhile apostle had the ever present CAPS, exclamation marks, repetitions, and manner of writing did not seem like bullying to you then something seems amiss.
Oh yes I do know you. Your putting on a show for the new invites you've brought into this 'secret' blog.
The best way to react to bullies, if there even is such a thing around here, is the same thing we teach school kids. Learn how to stand up to them, how to deflect, or the concept of fight or flight. We're all adults here, so no need to worry about your lunch money, but don't surrender your adult beverages money to them, either!
Also, remember, there will
always be people who are capable of launching a salvo that is more compelling than your own. You could probably learn something from the ways in which Bob Thiel deals with such people. There are some things that we can learn even from him, just not the things he actually intends.
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