Why has there been such an emphasis lately in various Churches of God concerning members submitting to authority? Is something big about to explode again, or do certain COG leaders feel they no longer have control over members? Are members thinking for themselves?
Doug Winnail says:
Are You Easily Entreated?
The Apostle James describes a Christian who uses God’s Spirit as “peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated” (James 3:17, King James Version) or “peaceable, gentle, open to reason” (Modern English Version). Such individuals will not erupt with anger or indignation if someone questions their actions, opinions, or decisions. They will not be so convinced that their own ideas or actions are right that they are unwilling to listen to advice from others. Solomon wrote that “the way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but he who heeds counsel is wise” (Proverbs 12:15). Solomon made numerous references to the value of listening to counsel (e.g. Proverbs 19:20, 27; 22:17). A true Christian who is led by God’s Spirit will be approachable, teachable, and conciliatory (1 Timothy 3:2–7; Galatians 6:16). Let’s strive toward this goal!
Have a profitable Sabbath,
Douglas S. Winnail
18 comments:
Well one could certainly ask lcog if their own ministry are open minded, and willing to heed counsel and advice themselves?
And would they acknowledge, if presented with the quite compelling evidence available now, that British Israelism is a dead duck. That those that espouse this highly erroneous theology are indeed in error and will they be willing to change and forgo this foundational rock of Armstrongism. Nah, salaries too important, and with that the status of course. Like the gentiles they love to lord it over their people…………..
I experienced "listening to council" several times as a member. First, the so called council was partial to evil and abusive church members. This is a business strategy. Evil members have attitudes set in stone, so in order to make the church "work," the repentant are expected to resign themselves to be door mats and punching bags. This way churches can hang on to their numbers and tithe money. If the minister's council is ignored, the gloves come off and verbal violence is unleashed.
That members should obey their church leaders even if they are wrong, is taught by many denominations, and is in direct violation of Paul's "obey God rather than man." They teach this to cover up the error part of their church culture of truth and error.
This is simply part of the dna of Armstrongism.
I have a feeling that some of the ministers can see what's really going on, what is in the near future, and they realize that it departs from what they have always taught and believed about prophecy. So, these may be some very confusing times for them. It's only natural that they'd pull in one of their tools to subtly shore things up within their little kingdoms.
A true Christian who is led by God’s Spirit will be approachable, teachable, and conciliatory (1 Timothy 3:2–7; Galatians 6:16). Let’s strive
Given the record of these churches this can be taken to mean that their members must be teachable and conciliatory in regard to things dished out by the Armstrong offshoot system.
Yet we know it is riddled with error and the words above are mere propaganda.
Well one could certainly ask lcog if their own ministry are open minded, and willing to heed counsel and advice themselves?
Doug has no credibility, and should shut up. He is on record as rejecting the counsel of God's Word, yet he expects members to obey Winnail's word. That's called hypocrisy.
"Wide Counsel" ??? Well, GRF is kinda plump...
The council that one should heed involving the ministry are spiritual matters and other issues related to the church.
Do you mean counsel?
Back in WCG in about 1995, I recall a member stating that he had to follow the Pastor General, even if the Pastor General was wrong. I could not believe anyone could be so dumb. Later that year I left WCG and have always tried to prove all things rather than take the word of a person, whether minister or otherwise.
I can tell you one thing. Putting on telecasts that warn of Germany destroying the world or having skits of HWA early broadcasts from KORE are a big ticket to nowhere. Maybe a skit of HWA and Big Beak getting drunk over a few bottles of Bristol Creme might work.
"Individuals will not erupt with anger or indignation if someone questions their actions, opinions, or decisions." Yea like certain ministers that I have seen and seen done to me in the lcg erupt with anger just if you disagree with them or have a different opinion. They act as if they don't do this, look in the mirror, but they can't they are too busy looking at Germany.
Doug, are you unwilling to listen to advice from others?
Your very first sentence begins with saying: “The Apostle James describes a Christian who uses God’s Spirit as “peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated” (James 3:17, King James Version)……”
And Doug, what if your followers do not USE God’s Spirit?
But, what does that KJV scripture actually say?
”But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.” James 3:17
Now, did you read in there anything about James describing; “…a Christian who uses God’s Spirit …?”
Do you, Doug? Have you ever used God’s Spirit?
You may not admit it, but you have never used God’s Spirit, and neither has anybody else used God’s Spirit, and you make check it out in both the Old Testament and the New Testament.
But as you continue to blame/judge your readers telling them they are supposed to use God’s Spirit: you create confusion that places an enormous burden on those followers, and you come off as being a hypocrite (James 3:17), b/c you aren’t even doing what you tell others to do.
Peace is a fruit of God’s Spirit (Gal 5:22), and it comes from God, not SELF:
e.g. “The LORD will give strength unto his people; the LORD will bless his people with peace.” Psalm 29:11
If anything, it is God’s Spirit that “uses” human beings. Satan’s spirit does that too.
Huh? Here’s an example:
“Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?”
Now, that verse exposes something that impact, infests, all Christians to one degree or another: including you, Doug, whether you are a Christian, like those James was speaking to, or not. Now, are they going to magically produce peace with that spirit within them? Will they USE God’s Spirit.
You cited James 3:17, which talks also about wisdom: something else that God provides besides peace.
But did you notice another wisdom that exists in the context shown just before verse 17?
James 3: 13 “Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.”
Doug, you are writing like a babe, citing the wisdom of verse 17, while ignoring that other spirit (Jas 4:5) within you that deals with lust, envy, and enables you to cause strife and confusion among your followers by telling them they can USE God’s Spirit. Those who think they will get salvation by their “good” works think they can, and must, do that to qualify, and earn that salvation…while turning a blind eye to God’s grace.
Not to end on a “downer,” you, Doug, did write: “A true Christian who is led by God’s Spirit will be approachable, teachable, and conciliatory”
And yes, that is true, but a true Christian, so led by God’s Spirit, does not need anyone blaming/judging them with the use of fear religion.
God’s doing the works (Acts 15:18; Heb 4:3; Phil 2:13, etc.) within those true Christians, and they don’t need to be “beat over the head;” otherwise, you may causing some blasphemy regarding how God does His works in others.
Are there true Christians really solely within the Living group, headed up by hirelings who fled the former WCG, leaving their ministerial credentials behind, in a scattered condition, and doing their own thing…like the other similar groups, too? Well, I suspect those true Christians are scattered worldwide within these groups, some even staying at home, others, perhaps lukewarm, temporary gone off into other religions of Satan’s present evil world, but
Time will tell…
John
I know 10:05, this is the issue with the BI theology doctrine, it’s that it permeates every part of scripture within Armstrongism:
The Law: They come from the two tribes from the two sons Ephraim and Manasseh, (even though their mother was the Egyptian Asenath). Their physical descendants are the ones that came out of Egypt, so even (Lev 26 & Deut 28) applies to America and Britain with the blessings and cursings.
The Writings: When reading the writings of David and Solomon, the Key of David or the Throne of David is in mind with the King of England down through the centuries even until this day.
The Prophets: They are the ones that will go through Jacob’s trouble. Also when reading the major or minor prophets about the events that will take place in the end time regarding Israel, it’s mainly Britain and America.
The New Testament: Then we get to the lost sheep or lost ten tribes of Israel, and now the people who are lost have migrated to the British Isles. They somehow are not lost spiritually (as what is really being said), but they are lost geographically according to armstrongism.
They don’t stop to think, where was Manasseh prior to the 1500s? I mean the tribes are supposed to be separate, right. So in conclusion,they will never divorce themselves from BI, it's at the fabric of their religion. So instead of inculcating the lessons and character needed to apply within scripture, in the back or front of their mind is the BI.
Tank
you made a wise choice we are told to seek to prove all things to see whether scriptures corroborate. best to you
Perhaps the ministry in LCG and UCG or feeling particularly threatened right now. As if there is a raising message going around that their very legitimacy as “true” is being threatened. And since they have literally no substantive defense against the challenge to legitimacy, they are trying to power through, and urge members to simply trust them, and hope it lets the threat pass over.
Hmm. I wonder what the challenge could be…
Oh, just to be saying, here is my blog post about ordinational succession — which I’ve been sending around, heavily, focusing on those two denominations — with links added to my works on Civic Duty and “denial” among Armstrongists: https://catsgunsandnationalsecurity.blogspot.com/2025/03/reference-to-followers-of-armstrongism.html?m=1
"Wise counsel"
Actually those two words are oxymorons, or non sequiturs when applied to Armstrongite ministers. You see, in their world, the collected opinions, teachings, and theories of Herbert W. Armstrong have been historically treated as if they were AI. Every bit of incoming data is processed through it. In a sense, it was AI before there was AI.
As I used to say back in the olden days, "Want to get to know the brethren? Just read the Plain Truth, Good News, read the booklets, and listen to the broadcast and sermons. You will know everything about each and every one of the brethren without even so much as starting a conversation!" I applied that same methodology to my parents, and it held true of them as well!
BB
Avoura, Tkach was the Lord’s anointed picked by the Lord’s anointed, the Apostle and Elijah — all at the end of an unbroken succession of Sabbatarian ordinations. He was Moses, and “as God to you.” That is what your religion taught. That is what Herbert Armstrong taught.
So don’t be surprised a minister told you that. The WCG minister where I was when J7 happened told me very much the same thing. A few years later he left WCG, worked for the state as some sort of family counselor, and attended some off-to-the-side congregation, then ended up getting a paying gig from UCG.
Your minister was not dumb. He was programmed, a hired gun, or a combination of both. He was an Armstrongist.
COGlodyte ministers have a way of provoking church members to anger! They then try to hold those members accountable! Jesus did not do that! It's called entrapment!
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