The Reason the Sabbath Keeping Churches are not growing
#2 Disfellowshipment Has Been Weaponized to Control Members in UCG & COGWA.
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When Church Discipline Distorts God’s Truth
Question: What is the #1 reason people stop attending church in UCG & COGWA?
Answer: The Ministry.
Think of how many members left the Indianapolis congregation because of Darris McNeely. Did Vic Kubik fire Darris?
Of course not. Vic is an idiot and brought Darris to the Home Office and put him on the telecast representing UCG when Darris should have been fired.
Disfellowshipment is another significant area where people have never come back to church because of the Ministry. It is one of the most misunderstood and sensitive topics in UCG & COGWA. The ministry has repeatedly misapplied disfellowshipment. Most members accept the concept surrounding disfellowshipment and then gossip about a member being kicked out of church, but these same members cannot answer a basic question:
What are the Biblical grounds for disfellowshipment?
PURPOSE: This article will serve to make you an expert on this topic and give you concrete ways you can take back your power if this practice occurs in your church.
Background: We went to a current UCG Council member and a minister who served on the UCG Council recently with this question:
What are the biblical reasons a member could be disfellowshipped? NEITHER could answer the question. These were Jorge De Campos and Paul Kiefer.
Years ago, Peter Eddington was asked: "Is lying to the ministry a reason a member could be disfellowshipped?" He said: "There are many reasons a member can be disfellowshipped," but could not answer the question specifically.
Peter, lying to the ministry is NOT a biblical reason to disfellowship a member. Members are often kicked out of UCG for bruising a minister’s fragile ego.
Peter: You should know this! Get off the council.
(Also, where do you stand on opening the Steve Myers ethics investigation? The Council of Elders you are on is blocking it.)
In UCG, members are often kicked out of church while their Council of Elders cannot clearly define what biblically supports this decision. Ministers in the field are given far too much latitude on this topic without a consistent policy or accountability if a minister makes a mistake.
Do you still send the UCG Home Office your hard-earned money? You are paying for incompetence and paying the salaries of men who do not follow the Bible.
The bigger question in UCG, given the incompetence of the ministry in handling members' personal issues, is: Why would ANYONE tell a UCG minister the truth? You are inviting them to judge you and make a bigger mess out of whatever you are dealing with.
The TRUTH (we are Veritas, after all): When exercised properly, biblically mandated discipline is designed to preserve the spiritual purity of the church, protect the flock, and ultimately bring a sinning believer to repentance and reconciliation. Most of the congregations consist of older, experienced members who have seen it all. So the need to "protect" them is not as relevant as it is with neophyte members.
We would argue that if a member wants the church to help them with a problem or sin, GO TO THE MEMBERS WHO HAVE SUCCESSFULLY OVERCOME THEIR ISSUE IN THEIR LIFE. They can speak to it from experience.
The ministry is just going to:
Quote a bunch of scriptures to you and think they did their job,
Judge you,
Tell their wife, who will then spread your struggles like wildfire. Steve Myers' wife is a great example of this dynamic.
Some of the biggest gossips in UCG & COGWA are the ministers' wives. You DO NOT want them knowing your business.
The main purpose of disfellowshipment, then, is to help the member get back on a good path—not to control the member so the incompetent, non-Bible-following minister can stay in his comfort zone!
Going back to the Worldwide Church of God days, disfellowshipping—or "kicking a member out"—has frequently been misused as a tool of spiritual abuse, control, and censorship of ideas by the ministry and the COGWA & UCG Home Office.
We covered extreme and evil examples of how COGWA used this in our first article:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1txS3NPOwcgLU_8XsrQk0ZeO0bagy4Vqd/edit
Educate Yourself on This Important Topic
To stand in truth (Veritas), we must examine what the Bible actually teaches about valid reasons for kicking a member out of church, and contrast it with how church leadership often abuses this process.
Part 1: Valid Biblical Grounds for Disfellowshipping
The Scriptures do not give church leaders free rein to disfellowship members over personal grievances, administrative differences, or questioning their authority. The New Testament outlines specific, severe situations where disfellowshipping is required.
These situations are rare in UCG & COGWA.
Incest: (1 Corinthians 5:1–13) In Paul’s letter to the Corinthians, a member was involved in an ongoing incestuous relationship, and the church was boastful rather than grieved. Paul instructed them to remove the individual from fellowship ("deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh") so that their spirit might ultimately be saved.
Paul’s goal was twofold: to protect the church's spiritual purity and to lead the individual to repentance.
This RARELY happens.Causing Division: This is the blanket reason that the UCG & COGWA ministry uses, but UCG and COGWA do not use the scripture correctly.
(This means you: Doug Horchak, Ken Treybig, Jim Franks, Ken Giese, Dave & Steve Myers (a.k.a. the Disfellowshipment Brothers), Mark Welch, and Vic Kubik. Vic is completely inconsistent on this topic depending on who he likes and who he has a personal issue with.) Here is the actual Scripture regarding kicking someone out for "causing division": IT IS OVER DOCTRINE—not over catching a minister in a scandal (Doug Horchak) or covering up for their buddies in the ministry involved in scandal and sin, like Mark Welch did for Steve Myers when he ran UCG’s ministry.
(Romans 16:17, Titus 3:10–11) Paul instructs believers to "note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them." A person who factiously spreads clear, unbiblical heresy and causes strife—after a first and second warning—is to be rejected (Titus 3:10).
In our first article, Ken Treybig kicked a member out of church for telling another member about inappropriate emails between Doug Horchak and his wife. In a letter he mailed, Ken Treybig said the member was "causing division."
Ken, you better hope there is no hell... because you and your nutty wife are going. Who (and we think it was Jim Franks) gave you authority to kick this member out of church for telling the truth?
Confess your sins, Ken Treybig, and then read Matthew 18:6, where it states, "it is better for someone to be drowned in the sea with a heavy millstone tied around their neck than to lead a vulnerable believer or child into sin or spiritual ruin."Refusal to Repent After Personal Reconciliation Steps: (Matthew 18:15–17) Jesus gave a clear, four-step process for personal sin between brethren:
Go to the brother privately.
Take one or two witnesses if they will not listen.
Tell it to the church (the congregation/assembly).
Only if they refuse to hear the entire assembly are they to be treated as an unbeliever ("a heathen and a tax collector").
This process was followed by the member regarding Doug Horchak.
The member wanted to meet with him (Horchak refused, stating the member had a bad attitude).
Then the member asked Ken Treybig and Ken Giese to have Horchak meet with him while Giese and Treybig were present as witnesses. Ken Giese, who was the Regional Pastor, said that was not a good idea.
When the member started to tell the body, he was kicked out.
Shouldn’t Doug Horchak, Ken Treybig, and Ken Giese be disfellowshipped for not following Matthew 18? Is this uncomfortable for you to consider?
Now you know the reasons for disfellowshipment: IDM
I – Incest
D – Division over Doctrine (causing division is the blanket policy the ministry uses out of context)
M – Matthew 18 & not changing after MULTIPLE attempts to bring the issue to your attention.
Biblical disfellowshipping involves unrepentant, willful sin against God’s revealed word, and it is always conducted with the goal of redemption and restoration.
Part 2: How Disfellowshipping Is Abused by UCG & COGWA Ministers
Unfortunately, church discipline is frequently weaponized by leaders seeking to consolidate authority, silence dissent, or protect institutional interests. Here is how disfellowshipping is commonly abused, along with current examples:
1. Disfellowshipping for Questioning Human Authority (Lording It Over the Flock)
The UCG & COGWA ministry often conflates their own authority with the authority of God. If a member asks legitimate questions about church administration, doctrinal interpretations, or financial transparency, they are often branded as "divisive" or "rebellious."
The Reality: Jesus explicitly warned His ministry against hierarchical abuse: "The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them... but not so among you" (Luke 22:25–26). Questioning a human minister is not the same as rebelling against God.
Modern Examples:
A COGWA couple puts together a campout. They want to discuss how to put more zeal and growth into the church. They were asked not to because a COGWA elder was not present. COGWA leadership is led by maniacal control freaks.
How dare they attend another Sabbath keeping church that is not part of the COGWA Corporation?
2. Weaponizing "Divisiveness" (Misapplying Romans 16:17)
Romans 16:17 is one of the most frequently abused scriptures in corporate ministry. Leaders often use it to expel members who simply point out ministerial corruption, doctrinal errors, or mistreatment of brethren.
The Reality: Highlighting biblical truth or exposing unscriptural practices by the ministry is not "causing division" (Jude 1:3). True division is caused by those who teach doctrines and enforce policies contrary to Scripture.
Modern Examples: We covered this in detail in our first post. Mark Welch was given proof that Steve Myers had lied to cover up that he had bungled a false rape accusation. (More on this in a future article.)
Mark was in charge of the ministry at the time. When presented with evidence in emails from Steve Myers and an audio recording of a face-to-face meeting with Steve Myers showing that Steve Myers lied and did not follow scripture (even when pointed out to him), Mark took no action against Myers.
The member wrote to Mark Welch and copied many members regarding a presentation Steve Myers gave to the GCE:
From a May 31, 2019 email from the member to Mark Welch, head of the UCG Ministry (appointed by Vic, the idiot): > (The member writes addressing Mark Welch on an issue that had been going on for over FIVE YEARS without resolution) > "I have been talking to you guys privately about the issues in the ministry (No Training. No Accountability).
Well, if this doesn't sicken you, I do not know what will.
Spineless Steve gave this presentation to the GCE (General Council of Elders—meaning he was teaching ALL the elders in United).
Seminars on Monday were 'The Heart of a Shepherd' by Steve Myers.
Mark, I have asked you to FIRE the LIAR that is MYERS. What is he doing giving this presentation?! What kind of bush-league operation are you guys running up there?
The time he spent preparing this presentation was time he should have spent keeping his word to Gary and myself. In other words, SERVING THE BRETHREN.
Spineless Steve does not have 'The Heart of a Shepherd.' He runs away from issues. He enables evil. He promotes incompetence. He does not take meetings requested by the brethren. He does not return emails about the messes he has contributed to making. HE LIES!
This is documented, and you have been sent proof. Why have you not fired him?"
Mark Welch responded in this email: > Mark Welch > To: [Member], and 1 other, Cc: [Member], and 1 other · Sat, Jun 1, 2019 at 12:42 AM
"Steve Myers gave an outstanding presentation to our ministry on the 'Heart of a Shepherd,' and I personally believe he has such an approach to the ministry and to serving God’s people. He has many demands on his time, and he is very busy and hardworking. I believe he has done well, overall, and has always tried to serve God and His people well. I have no intention of firing him...
God hates division and discord, and it would be an injustice for me to overlook the same. Please take this as a warning if you desire to continue attending United. This type of rhetoric must cease immediately. I have no problem if you want to give your opinion respectfully, but this type of dialogue and communication is divisive and unproductive."
NOTE: Mark Welch (AS HEAD OF THE ENTIRE UCG MINISTRY) does not address the facts of Steve Myers' sins that he had been made aware of for over a year. He puts the burden back on the member with threats of removal from United. Why is Steve Myers not removed from United? Read James 3:1.
Does calling out a minister's sin to the UCG leadership, only to have the UCG Home Office respond by threatening the member with dismissal, fit the Incest, Doctrine, Matt 18 (IDM) disfellowshipment criteria we just covered?
No, it does not.
Vic Kubik was made aware of this, and he dismissed it, saying, "Steve is really busy."
And so the members suffer.
STOP SENDING YOUR MONEY TO THE UCG HOME OFFICE. Keep it local or give it to a charity that actually tangibly makes people's lives better.
Dave Myers (somehow the Myers brothers run the ministry of COGWA and UCG) both kick members out of church. Note: When Dave Myers kicked these members out of church and the members responded publicly, did Dave Myers address the issues directly?
No, he gave a broad answer and then proceeded to discredit the members publicly:
See: The Shepherd's Heavy Mantle - To Help You Keep Your Mouth Shut!
UCG: Stop the Spend (no more money to their Home Office)
COGWA: Stop the Attend (stop going to this false church that was founded on lies)
3. Bypassing the Matthew 18 Process
In many abusive church environments like UCG & COGWA, members are disfellowshipped behind closed doors without ever being given the opportunity to speak to their accusers, present their side, or go through the steps outlined by Jesus in Matthew 18. We know of many examples, but please post on the Veritas website if you know of any.
The Reality: Bypassing Matthew 18 to unilaterally "mark" or ban a member is a direct violation of Christ's explicit command.
Modern Examples: We have covered this in previous examples: Doug Horchak refused to meet with the member who caught him in lies with his wife.
Steve Myers refused to meet with a member over a false accusation after Steve Myers and Mark Welch had already kicked people out of church, giving the member no recourse in the situation.
Stan Braumiller in Florida requested a face-to-face meeting with his accusers and was denied, as well as kicked out of church.
UCG and COGWA do NOT apply Matthew 18 if it requires the MINISTER to be confronted.
4. Total Social Shunning and Ostracization
When disfellowshipping is abused, leaders often demand that family members, friends, and the entire congregation completely sever all contact with the expelled individual, effectively treating them as dead.
The Reality: While Paul instructs churches not to share a covenant meal or spiritual fellowship with an unrepentant, immoral believer (1 Cor 5:11), the ultimate attitude toward the individual must still be rooted in love and the desire to see them restored (2 Thessalonians 3:14–15: "Yet do not count him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother").
Conclusion: Standing for Veritas
True church discipline reflects the heart of God: holy, fair, patient, and merciful. When disfellowshipping is practiced biblically, it seeks to restore the sinner and safeguard the congregation. In a mature congregation, which is the majority of UCG and COGWA, the members should be at a point to rightfully divide the word of truth themselves without the need for a minister "protecting them."
When it is abused by an authoritarian ministry, disfellowshipping becomes an instrument of spiritual trauma, driving people away from God rather than bringing them closer to Him.
Members can take back their power on this topic. Here are ideas meant to empower you:
Educate yourself on what are valid and invalid reasons for disfellowshipment. Remember the IDM Model:
I – Incest
D – Doctrine (causing division by spreading false doctrine)
M – Not repenting after going through the Matthew 18 model.
This is a good start that will stand you in good stead.Go to church anyway. If they try to remove you, call the police and ask them to arrest the minister for violating your rights to peacefully assemble. Video the whole episode on your phone and post it all over social media until there is a stigma attached to attending the organization.
Form a Matthew 18 committee with the members of your congregation. Make a commitment that ANY issues in the congregation will follow the Matthew 18 process and be overseen by the committee. The purpose is not to make someone right or wrong, but to promote spiritual growth AT THE MEMBER LEVEL by talking out issues, grievances, and sin that could affect the congregation.
Inform the minister that he also will be under the guidelines of the Matthew 18 committee. Carl Gennaro in Tampa, Florida, had good ideas on how to begin this in your congregation. Reach out to him:
https://www.facebook.com/carl.gennaro
Finally, we ask you to get involved and share your experiences. There is healing and solutions that can come from the spiritual trauma that some members have experienced from the ministry in UCG and COGWA.
Have you seen Matthew 18 properly applied in your church experience, or have you witnessed spiritual abuse by the ministry? Share your thoughts respectfully in the comments section.
"Test all things; hold fast what is good." — 1 Thessalonians 5:21
15 comments:
For what it's worth, Darris McNeely did his final "Beyond Today" presentation a couple of weeks ago.
He's now listed as a "retired elder" - which actually makes him a contender for a future UCG presidency. That's what John Elliott was.
Even the strongest disciplinary texts (Romans 16:17; Titus 3:10–11) apply only to individuals whether leaders or lay members who persist in spreading doctrinal error and creating factions. Paul had already taught the truth, so those who opposed his teaching were not faithful dissenters but promoters of contrary doctrine. These texts do not apply to believers who oppose false doctrine; resisting error is obedience, not divisiveness.
However, when a church system has become so doctrinally entrenched and refuses correction, continued resistance achieves little. In such cases, Scripture presents separation as the appropriate course, not prolonged internal conflict. It is often best to leave such systems, for they treat their own doctrinal positions as the sole repository of truth and resist meaningful discussion or correction. Some may choose to remain for social reasons, but such motivations do not alter the biblical pattern.
Family shunning is nowhere taught in Scripture. Even the strongest disciplinary passages address doctrinal agitators, not relatives, and provide no basis for total social or familial excommunication.
The Great Dis-membership RISK
Whether you go to a satanic cult like the PCG, or to a godless cult like the UCG, there is a very great risk of being dis-membered sooner or later. This is especially true if you are pure, sweet, innocent, and not at fault.
In the PCG, all sorts of old male and female sex maniacs, sex perverts, and predators can get innocent younger people expelled for not going along with their selfish and immoral agendas. The fake PCG “minister” who does the dirty work for the old predators will then tell the victims that they did so much for them and tried so hard to help them. How nice of them.
In the UCG, all sorts of chronic liars and dirty old men and filthy old women can get innocent people expelled. The UCG “minister” who does the dirty work for the chronic liars will then tell the victims that the UCG meets in peace. How nice.
The chance that wicked old people will come around to prey on new younger members of groups like the PCG and the UCG is very great. If someone does not go along with these wicked people and their wicked agendas, they can be slandered all over the place and kicked out.
Why should any new people go to these splinter groups? Innocent, well-meaning people can spend many years and thousands of dollars in these groups only to be abused and slandered continually and then unjustly expelled.
With all the evil in the splinter groups, from top to bottom, there is an extreme RISK of being dis-membered sooner or later.
Folks, there sure are a lot of places to keep the sabbath in wholesome non -Armstrong settings. Why insist on keeping it where you receive abuse by rabid clergy???
Fortunately for one's mental health, there is no longer any great stigma attached to having been expelled from any of the dozens of one true splinter groups.
The only real shame is in ever having gone to any of those con jobs in the first place.
I believe the Armstrongite ministers use disfellowshipment to excess because they lack the skill set to work with people in a more effective, constructive way.. HWA was a bottom-feeder who referred to his followers as "my dumb sheep". Well, what do you do if some prove to be more resilient, and actually do some objective thinking? When reasoning as best you can with people will not work because it is they who are correct, the only resource left is to disfellowship. Presented with the ultimatum "My way or the highway", the more intelligent ones choose the highway! As Queen so succinctly put it, "Boomp, boomp, boomp, another one bites the dust!"
UCG has an appeals system to prevent corrupt or investigate wrongful disfellowshipment of UCG members.
Trying to scare UCG and COGWA members 6:08??? Negativity abounds on this blog. You forget about God.
There are many decent and godly people in UCG and COGWA, godly families and kindhearted individuals.
Important to note that this appeals process only applies if one is OFFICIALLY "disfellowshipped" and does NOT apply if one is simply told that he or she is "not permitted to attend." (Clever, huh?)
I've gotten tired of hearing ministers tell us to beware of false brethren that can take you away from the truth. Very few will mention this same warning regarding the ministry. And they are the ones who have done 95% of the damage.
Here is the dirty little UCG Secret. A member cannot open an Ethic's investigation on a Minister. Only the Council of Elders can open an Ethics investigation on a minister. The council and John Elliot can simply not respond to the request to open an Ethics investigation by a member and nothing happens.
Control is more of a priority than Serving the members.
UCG is not dissimilar to COGWA even though they think they are. This article is correct.
#stopthespend
Anon, Thursday, August 13, 2026 at 3:53:25 AM PDT, wrote:
I've gotten tired of hearing ministers tell us to beware of false brethren that can take you away from the truth. Very few will mention this same warning regarding the ministry. And they are the ones who have done 95% of the damage.
******
Peter, the chief apostle, to God's Church, after Jesus' second coming to earth and then returned to His God/Father in Heaven, gave important advice in I Peter 5 to all elders of God's Church.
For example, there is verse 3, which says:
"Neither as being lords over [God s] heritage, but being ensamples to the flock."
Those of the ministry are supposed to be guides, and not lording it over others of God's Church, and accompany it with being an example to the flock.
It is implied that they ought to be good examples; however, so many today have set bad examples, but by their fruit we know them.
Perhaps so many of them just demonstrate that they, part of some group, organization, association, are not really part of God's Church, but time will tell...
John
We were accused of something we never did, by a minister! Of course had to meet with him to get it all straightened out, it never was! No apologies at that point we never went back! He is a total narcissist and has the “the little man” syndrome. Oh we could have contacted someone from HQ but the members are nothing! We are so thankful to be out of the organizations and being taught Gods truth from someone who is a teacher and not in the hierarchy we have been under for 55 years! These ministers are being held accountable now! The pain, frustrations, and agony these ministers that have put on the brethren all these years such a waste! God has seen it all and knows it all!
Well said! Brethren wake up! It seems the fruits are physical like they must have this huge building add on to look good and feel more righteous for all the wonderful things they can do!
So does COGWA. But I know an ex-member who filed an appeal over being banished (for lifting hands in prayer) and never a thing for months.
After several monthly emails seeking updates, Dave Myers said the banishment was handled properly. When in fact, the appeal was about the BASIS for the banishment, which was scarcely touched.
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