Ignore-ance: Not Just What You Don't Know...But What You Won't Know

COGwriterAt the Christianity Today website, an author (Shawn Graves) asked and provided some answers to the question, Why are there still atheists?

Poster's Note:  Still?  In this age of blossoming scientific inquiry and because "knowledge will be increased" , which to religionists is probably one of the most threatening disasters to their narrow minds they can imagine, there will be more an more people waking up, losing their literalist religion and coming to their senses.

"Spiegel asserts that for many atheists, it’s not “cool, rational inquiry” that led to their atheism. Rather, in many cases it’s complex moral and psychological factors that produce atheism. For example, Spiegel points to research suggesting that some prominent atheists had broken, defective relationships with their fathers. Others live in perpetual disobedience and rebellion—resisting lifestyle changes required upon adopting theism. And still others confess that they just don’t want there to be a God. Spiegel contends that immorality has cognitive consequences—it impedes one’s ability to recognize that theism is true.

No doubt he’s right. Surely some people accept atheism due in part to such powerful motivational  factors."

Poster's Note:  The idea that those who have come to other conclusions about the origins, inerrancy, and historical reality of the Bible do so so they can break God's laws, be immoral and do what they want is one of the oldest and most stupid and  mistaken notions about why many grow older and wiser about all things Biblical.  Bob Thiel shrinks in knowledge as far as I can tell.  Good science,  good investigation of history, good archaeology, good cosmology, good paleontology and good theology done well is THE REASON.  The Hebrew Concept of God becomes the ever shrinking one in light of our growing understanding of the realities of where everything in the Universe comes from and how it may have arrived without the need for magic. Science informs religion and corrects it's mistaken notions about how the world and life works and where it came from. Men don't really come from mud and women don't really come from spare ribs. Evolution is a fact and only those who either cannot read or have the kind of faith that not only is based on what they don't know, but also what they won't know cling to creationism and the ridiculous notion that real humans are contained in some meager "6000 year plan of God." Humans have roamed America for at least 12,000 years and Europe and the Middle East and Africa for over 200,000 years.

 A good long sit down with "Foundational Falsehoods of Christianity" by Aron Ra, who you'll dismiss because he has long hair and probably likes football, could be enlightening. However since your method of searching out a matters is 1. Assume your conclusion and 2. Assert your conviction (then repeat) you will never grow in either the grace or knowledge you claim to understand.

Religion does not inform science and never has or will. Good science done well has NEVER had to apologize to the church and go backwards into the Biblical explanations of things.

Dr. Bob asserts....

Now, actually one of the reasons that there are evolutionary atheists is, believe it or not, in the 19th century various male “intellectual” were looking for excuses to not have to abide by biblical standards of sexual morality. And back then, some of them even admitted that is why they embraced the concept that life randomly evolved without a creator God.

Posters Note:  Bullshit Bob. No one is looking for excuses, they are searching out a matter, which even the Bible says "it is the glory of a king" to do so, even if it was not encouraged among the rabble,  and this kind of apologetic is a pathetic attempt to skirt real issues. 

The various 19th century "intellectuals" were looking for answers to the questions the growing fields of science were bringing to the table to be explained and understood in reality.  Many of the early critical thinkers were ministers and deeply religious with a love of science and a mind open to the fact the Bible may not need to be taken too literally in it's mythologies about creation, floods and the grand exploits of a rather insignificant cultic people writing up for themselves an amazing pedigree, while in captivity.

"I would also add hypocrisy to the list. The fact that evangelicals, for one example, are more likely to be involved with fornication than the general public, despite biblical admonitions against it, turns people off."

Poster's Note:  Your shallow and childish judgments and explanations from the Bible also turn people off. Majoring in the minors does as well and you are good at it.  I would also add delusional thinking to the list of reasons some men feel the need to mind everyone else's business and pretend to know more than they actually do. Claiming your double portion of the spirit and thus claiming to be a genuine prophet in the Biblical mode, being anointed for a cold, also turns people of faith off and would turn anyone into a scoffer.

"There are also scholars, for example, like Bart Ehrman, who started out as Protestant but when they learned more about church history, realized that Protestantism simply did not fit with much of the Bible...."

Poster's Note: Bart did not just come to feel Protestantism simply did not fit with the Bible. You are misrepresenting his journey and his conclusions.  You obviously have never read one book Bart Ehrman wrote in full. I'd start with "Misquoting Jesus" before you get too sure you have the sure word of anything. 

"But I would like to add that it is illogical to be an atheist. While there may be many reasons that people may doubt the existence of a personal God, such as the one that the Bible teaches about, the reality is that any that conclude that there cannot be a creator/god are being foolish: 

1 The fool has said in his heart,”There is no God.” (Psalms 14:1, NKJV)

Poster's Note: Rather you should say Bob, "In my opinion it is illogical to be an atheist"  To those who have done the hard work of inquiry for their lifetimes as opposed to sitting in their living room chairs pontificating over things they know next to nothing about,  it is completely logical to question the Sunday School version of life. No Bob, the fool has said in his heart, "there is only Bob Thiel's rendition of God and Bob knows the mind of this god better than they all."

 Ignore-ance is clinging to not only what you don't know, it's clinging to what you won't know.

 Bob continues...

"One of the reasons that it is foolish to conclude that there is no God is because humans should realize that we are finite beings. No human has been to ever place in the universe, no human has lived forever, no human has been to every possible dimension that may exist in the universe. Since no human has done that, for any human to conclude that there cannot be a god or any type is illogical. Why? Because no human has enough possible proof that God cannot exist. Doing so with limited “evidence” is foolish."

Poster's Note:  This is the completely invalid argument that you can't know anything unless you know everything.  That is, in order to have any knowledge at all, you have to have infinite knowledge of all and only God has that.  So before you can really know anything for sure, you  either you have to be God himself or you have to have that very special relationship with God that reveals to you real and complete knowledge above all other knowing.  This, of course, is exactly what religion claims to provide. It is also bogus and pure apologetic for pretending to know what don't know in fact. 

"But, despite the fact that some claim to be atheists, God’s existence is logical."

Poster's Note: To YOU Bob...to you.....

In Non-Compliant Love

Dennis

"Apostate Former Minister and Scoffer Falsely So Called" 

Here Ya Go Bob...

In the Name of the Father, the Son and in the Hole You Go...

Tell ya what I'm gonna do.  This weekend and this weekend only , if you act , I'm gonna give you my gen-u-ine  Herbert W Armstrong signed and David L. Antion bone-e-fied Ordination Certificate.  My name can be cut out and you can paste in your own name in the font of your choice. I know it can be done sweet and easy and no one will ever question you again. 

 It comes with a pretty seal of approval and if you can tough it out 25 years, a Lion/Lamb Seiko with a dead battery can be yours as a bonus.  I was going to throw it in Lake Ontario but sent it back . You can have that too by simply calling the Wildworld Church of God at their administrative offices in...in...wherever they went.  Sadly and of course, you get no retirement as God hates retirement . It's in the Bible somewhere. 

Act NOW!  

This offer can be retracted at any time  especially if Gerald Flurry wants to buy them for his Brotherly Love Museum 

But Wait!!!!

There's More!!!

 If you act NOW. I will throw in absolutely FREE a bone-e-fied Ordination Certificate from one Joseph W. Tkach should you ever stray from your probably sure words of prophecy and need a back up to certify your about face.  This double portioned value is yours free for the taking.  Apostate Former Deacon Joseph W. Tkach  (AKA Alphonso Capone Tkach) backdated it to May 18th, 1975, don't ask me why, but if he can make ordination poo poo up about himself, I don't see why you can't.  Don't worry of it!  I've even heard of some getting anointed for a cold and coming out at the "amen" a Prophet!!!.  It's a miracle!!! You get a bonus 20 years credit even if it's a typo and historical proof that HWA and JWT Co-Ruled in the Wildworld Church of God.  

I wish you the very best with your gen-u-ine ordination and your probably, could be we'll see Church of the Sure Word of Prophecy , we can hope endeavors in both Africa and The Arctic Circle.

Bob Thiel, The Unordained False Prophet Still Lying That He Was Ordained By Living Church of God

Bob Thiel is lashing out at the Living Church of God, yet again, for publicly telling potential recruits to his personality cult that he was not ordained by the Living Church of God and is not to be considered ordained with proper credentials.

This has always been a bitter pill for Thiel and has been a serious blow to his pretentious priggishness.  Vanity has always been the thorn-in-the-side of so many deluded self-appointed Church of God leaders. The pompous vainglorious attitudes of so many COG splinter leaders has initially brought in significant numbers of people to their personality cults, but as time goes by and members see the false veneer stripped away revealing the haughty and arrogant personalities of the leaders, the members start to drift away. The men become more deluded and narcissistic with each passing day.  More and more absurd demands and revelations for their followers are dished out as God-sent teachings.

All of these men, in order to establish themselves as God's one and the only man with the truth, will develop all kinds of myths and outright lies about their station in the church.  Almost all present day COG leaders have been ordained by "proper" succession through the ranks of the previous alliterations of the church.  All of them except one, Bob Thiel.

Bob Thiel was never ordained in the Living Church of God, never was given the title of ordination, never received an ordination certificate with an official seal of the LCG (or any other COG), was never officially asked to be a minister, and was never officially blessed to be a minister.  Regardless of that, he still is lying that he was.

07/10/17 a.m. Recently, I got an email from someone interested in the Continuing Church of God (CCOG) who was being discouraged from being part of CCOG by one or more ministers in LCG along with one in COGWA. Basically, these ministers inaccurately claimed that I was not ordained, hence wanted to warn this person should stay away from CCOG.

LCG and COGWA ministers are entirely right in encouraging members to stay as far away from Bob Thiel as possible.

Thiel goes on  to promote the myth that Gaylyn Bonjour specifically prayed over him with the deliberate intent of raising him to the office of Minister in the Body of Christ.  Gaylyn Bonjour has specifically DENIED he ever had any such intent, yet Thiel continues to lie this is how he was officially ordained.

The fact that I was anointed by an LCG minister, Gaylyn Bonjour, who prayed that God would grant me a 'double-portion' of His Spirit was apparently not relevant to them. Nor is the fact that the anointing minister told afterwards me that he knew what he seemed have done and that what he did could not be taken away. Since this anointing was a private matter (like King David, see 1 Samuel 16:1-9; see also Laying on of Hands)....

Thiel has always been embarrassed about this and it has been a public humiliation for him and has made him the object of some hilarious ridicule.  Thiel found a new way around this humiliating experience by having one of his African "converts" lay hands on him and "anoint" him with new and special gifts he had been previously lacking.  They anointed him believing Thiel was already ordained.  This so-called "anointing" was done by several church hopping men who have jumped ship from one Sabbatarian group to the next as money and positions provided them with more importance.  This is the common practice of a large part of the Sabbatarian related churches in Africa and has been well-documented by church and relief organizations.

...later I was ordained again in public (like David, see 2 Samuel 2:4; 5:3). On 02/09/17 by Evangelist Evans Ochieng (formerly of GCG) and Overseer Samuel Ofosu (formerly of CG7) both laid hands on my for my anointing. So, it is improper to claim that I have not been ordained.

Thiel still has never been ordained to the rank of deacon, elder, pastor, evangelist, chief overseer, or any other position.  He has self-appointed himself to those positions using deception, half-truths, and outright lies.

Thiel also claims he is the end time prophet of the Church of God.  Hundreds if not thousands of prophets have popped up in the Church of God that Herbert Armstrong founded over 80 years ago.

Thiel is still trying to give the impression to his gullible African followers that his prophet status came in a dream where his god told him he was a prophet.  Imagine how many prophets the world would have after someone eating some bad Chinese food like Thiel did.   Some unclean shrimp juice disturbed Bob's delicate tummy so much that he was having nightmares and voila!...he dreams he is a prophet!

One question all should ask is regarding me is, "How does God make known that one is a prophet?" 

It is not the way many seem to think. It is not based upon the decision of some minister nor a group of men. 

The BIBLE teaches:

6 Hear now My words:
If there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, make Myself known to him in a vision;
I speak to him in a dream. (Numbers 12:6)

Sadly, most people will not believe that--but that is what God said.

The butt hurt of being publicly dismissed as a fool by Rod Meredith still messes with Thiel's mind.

But anyway, none of that matters because Thiel had TWO dreams!  TWO nightmares and voila!  He is a prophet!  Then a deluded LCG member elsewhere in the world ate some bad Chinese food and voila!  Bob's a prophet!  Just like that, Thiel has his prophethood status nailed, all thanks to some bad shrimp juice.

Bitter prophet Bob continues on with this serious jump-to-conclusions by claiming that two LCG ministers said he was such a prophetic man that he needed no anointing to be a prophet.  I can almost guarantee you that these two men never had any intention of declaring Bitter Bob a prophet when they said that to him. Just as Thiel has taken Gaylyn Bonjour's blessing and twisted it into something else, Thiel has taken these two men's comments and twisted it to mean something other than what they intended. However, Thiel was still disappointed and embarrassed that he had no legitimate ordination and Gaylyn Bonjour hits the scene!  The miracle of miracles!

The Bible also teaches:

28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? (1 Corinthians 12:28-30).

Now, does that mean that no anointing is needed? 

Well, a month or two before Gaylyn Bonjour anointed me, two LCG ministers told me that I did NOT need a special ordination or anointing to be a prophet. I stated that, in my case at least, I felt otherwise. Then I prayed something would happen to clarify this in December 2011, and something did. The unexpected prayer for a 'double-portion' of God's Spirit by LCG minister Gaylyn Bonjour. God answered that prayer.

Thiel ends his spiel with using Herbert Armstrong's bitter rant that church members and others claimed he was a false prophet. Since it has been well documented that Herbert Armstrong uttered HUNDREDS of failed prophecies, he has been proven to be a false prophet.  Remember, it only takes ONE failed prophecy and scripture warns believers to stay away from the person/

Bitter Thiel is on a slippery slope if he needs to use HWA as a tool of legitimization.  Two lying fools do not create a truthful prophet of God.

Now also consider something that Herbert Armstrong wrote:

PERSECUTORS HAVE CALLED me a "false prophet." Now how would you KNOW whether the accusation IS true- or false? ... Actually, it probably is not very important to you to know whether my persecutors are right or wrong, when they call me dirty names, hurl epithets, resort to innuendo, impute sinister motives, strive to discredit, attempt character assassination. What is important to YOU is whether what you read in The PLAIN TRUTH really is the truth - whether what you hear over The WORLD TOMORROW broadcast is true- not whether I, as an individual, am true or false.  

I think our readers know by now that we always say: "DON'T believe what we say because you believe in us." We say "Listen with open mind, without prejudice, then CHECK UP in your own Bible-prove whether it is true, and BELIEVE what you find proved!" I don't seek to induce people to believe in ME-I seek to lead them to believe in JESUS CHRIST! (Armstrong HW. Personal from the Editor. Plain Truth, May 1966, pp. 2) 

You may search the Bible from beginning to end. You'll find the true prophets, apostles, ministers of God put first emphasis on the right CAUSE, not the effect. They proclaim THE WAY that leads to peace, happiness, security, and finally, eternal life. In Bible language, this means that God's Word, and God's true prophets and ministers put first emphasis on God's LAW...God sends HIS prophets and ministers to proclaim the RIGHT WAY, to show people that they are going the WRONG WAY, to cause them to turn around and get back on the RIGHT WAY through Jesus Christ by God's free grace... 

God's true servants are not OF this world nor of its ways. (Armstrong HW. Personal from the Editor. Plain Truth, May 1966, pp. 2, 44-45)